Memphis State #1 vs. Tennessee #2 (now Duke convo.) (poll included)

[The Villi Phanatic]

The only person's name you should remember is Derrick Rose. CDR reminds me of Corey Brewer: long, athletic, and can do a little bit of everything. The problem is, he needs to work on his outside shot a lot. I could see his upside being somewhat of a Rudy Gay, but that's pushing it. Joey Dorsey unfortunately doesn't have the inside game to do well in the pros. I can see him playing great defense against PFs, but he's undersized as a center. He can definitely rebound, but in that sense he could just wind up like Reggie Evans.

Rose is definitely a great talent, saw him soar through a crowd to grab a rebound off the rim and dunk it with authority (might have been the gonzaga game)... not many point guards gonna give you that type of athleticism, and he seems to have the floor control you want out of a point guard, especially for someone his age, though I haven't seen a lot of memphis this year...

at this point, I'm debating who I like more, him or Augustin as I think they're clearly the 2 top PGs, and I'd put them both top 10, perhaps top 5 in terms of ranking them for the NBA draft... Rose naturally has the athletic edge and certainly has a high ceiling, but Augustin's a gamer and I think he has the ability to succeed in the pros on par with someone like Darrent Williams..

[Skins247]

When you've lived here, then you'll understand why it's still and will always be Memphis State to some of us here...

I don't need to have lived there to know its not called that anymore. The name changed a long time ago, man. The fact that you don't like that its changed is your problem. Get over it. They're called the "Memphis" Tigers. Period.

[Skins247]

I would just like to say that it is absolutely amazing what Bruce Pearl has done with the program in TN.

The argument could be made that he is the best coach in College Basketball right now.

And that would be a bad argument.

[Skins247]

Yep, I'll argue that point. Let's look at the records of the 2 teams since Pearl's hire in '05...

2005 - Memphis 33-4 / Tennessee 22-8

2006 - Memphis 30-3 / Tennessee 22-10

2007 - Memphis 25-0 / Tennessee 23-2

I'll take the 7 losses over the 20 losses those 3 years. And those will argue that it's C-USA and that we really don't play "anyone". But look at the teams UT has played as well. Other than their fellow SEC opponents who has UT really played? Western Kentucky, MTSU, Ark Monticello, Prarie View to name a few... Yeah those are all such powerhouses :doh: :doh:

And I believe we have been a little further in the Tourneys than UT has gone too.

Its hysterical that the guy thinks Pearl is the best college coach out there. Did Coach K or Roy Williams retire or something?:doh:

[Skins247]

Only since 1994 has it been U of Memphis. It was Memphis State for like 50 years or something before that.

Who cares what it used to be called.

[jrockster21]

Who cares what it used to be called.

Dude, didn't you get the hint months ago when you were posting? Go away.

[Skins247]

Dude, didn't you get the hint months ago when you were posting? Go away.

Oh, now I get it. So if I don't agree with everything the great jrockster says, I should just go away?

[Touchdown Redskins]

Rose is definitely a great talent, saw him soar through a crowd to grab a rebound off the rim and dunk it with authority (might

have been the gonzaga game)... not many point guards gonna give you that type of athleticism, and he seems to have the floor control you want out of a point guard, especially for someone his age, though I haven't seen a lot of memphis this year...

at this point, I'm debating who I like more, him or Augustin as I think they're clearly the 2 top PGs, and I'd put them both top 10, perhaps top 5 in terms of ranking them for the NBA draft... Rose naturally has the athletic edge and certainly has a high ceiling, but Augustin's a gamer and I think he has the ability to succeed in the pros on par with someone like Darrent Williams..

I'm a big DJ Augustin fan as well. The problem is he's undersized, even for a PG. He has incredible vision though, and is lightning quick. The thing is, he might be the third or fourth PG taken. He's clearly behind Derrick Rose, and Jarryd Bayless from Zona is going to be taken second just because he's a freshman (if he comes out, which is likely). Augustin will battle with Ty Lawson for the 3rd PG taken, although I think Augustin is head and shoulders above Lawson.

I would love to see how DJ does in the pros, but something tells me he'll be taken advantage of physically, somewhat like a Texas PG before him, TJ Ford.

[Touchdown Redskins]

Its hysterical that the guy thinks Pearl is the best college coach out there. Did Coach K or Roy Williams retire or something?:doh:

Coach K may be one of the greats of all time, but he is certainly not one of the best coaches of this year, or of the past couple years. He has not learned to change with the times, and thus his recruiting classes have suffered. He now only recruits kids who will be "lifers," and not one-and-done kids. While this may serve his ideals as a coach, it definitely does not help his talent pool. On top of this, his teams have been floudering in the tournament since Duke's last title. For some reason, his teams now have a penchant for losing late in the season (consider the recent losses to Wake Forest and Miami).

Roy Williams on the other hand is a great coach, but he benefits from one of the best recruiting positions in the country. A coach with William's background being the coach of an institution like UNC really doesn't have to go out of his way to recruit some of the best players in the game. His last title team had Marvin Williams, Sean May, Rashad McCants, and Raymond Felton all go in the first round of the draft.

[PleaseBlitz]

Coach K hasnt gotten past the Sweet 16 in 3 years despite all of the recruiting advantages that Duke has. They lost to freaking VCU in the first round last year. He doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the top 10 unless he can make a DEEP run this year.

[Touchdown Redskins]

Coach K hasnt gotten past the Sweet 16 in 3 years despite all of the recruiting advantages that Duke has. They lost to freaking VCU in the first round last year. He doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the top 10 unless he can make a DEEP run this year.

Here's a fantastic piece on Duke since 2001:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/stewart_mandel/02/21/duke/index.html

BTW, if you guys are ever yearning for some great insight on college football or basketball, read SI.com. Those guys are 10x better than ESPN.com.

[PleaseBlitz]

Here's a fantastic piece on Duke since 2001:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/stewart_mandel/02/21/duke/index.html

BTW, if you guys are ever yearning for some great insight on college football or basketball, read SI.com. Those guys are 10x better than ESPN.com.

The only guy on SI.com worth reading is Stew Mandel. The rest are hacks. I'll take Pat Forde over all of them.

But yeah, Duke is not the program it once was, and i'd take at least a dozen coaches over Coach K.

Edit: Why is he even IN this thread?

[Touchdown Redskins]

The only guy on SI.com worth reading is Stew Mandel. The rest are hacks. I'll take Pat Forde over all of them.

But yeah, Duke is not the program it once was, and i'd take at least a dozen coaches over Coach K.

I'm not a big fan of Forde, especially the Forde Minutes. He has some good tidbits here and there, and he obviously knows his stuff, but he doesn't have enough statistical analysis for me.

[PleaseBlitz]

I'm not a big fan of Forde, especially the Forde Minutes. He has some good tidbits here and there, and he obviously knows his stuff, but he doesn't have enough statistical analysis for me.

I love the Forde Minutes (and the Dashettes. :drool: ), plus he pretty much drives the WVU bandwagon.

[Touchdown Redskins]

I love the Forde Minutes (and the Dashettes. :drool: ), plus he pretty much drives the WVU bandwagon.

Sadly, there's no one on ESPN or SI that drives a Penn State (basketball) bandwagon .

[The Villi Phanatic]

One thing I will give Coach K credit for this year is how he's utilized Paulus... Paulus is not a good point guard, at least in terms of controlling the flow of the offense and creating opportunities for himself and his teammates... he's now in a role where he plays off the ball more and one thing he can do respectably well is knock down perimeter shots... he's also capable of dumping it down inside or swinging it to an open man on the outside at times but doesn't have to run the offense as Duke doesn't utilize him in the fashion of a prototypical point guard bringing the ball down the floor each possession and having the offense run through him... while I saw paulus as a liability last year, I think Coach K has put him in a position to better utilize his strengths and hide his deficiencies this season

[Touchdown Redskins]

One thing I will give Coach K credit for this year is how he's utilized Paulus... Paulus is not a good point guard, at least in terms of controlling the flow of the offense and creating opportunities for himself and his teammates... he's now in a role where he plays off the ball more and one thing he can do respectably well is knock down perimeter shots... he's also capable of dumping it down inside or swinging it to an open man on the outside at times but doesn't have to run the offense as Duke doesn't utilize him in the fashion of a prototypical point guard bringing the ball down the floor each possession and having the offense run through him... while I saw paulus as a liability last year, I think Coach K has put him in a position to better utilize his strengths and hide his deficiencies this season

I'll agree with you there. Last season he was just a train wreck on both ends of the court (although, that fractured foot or whatever he had didn't help things). This year he's looked competent. It's funny to think how far he's fallen since being the first freshmen to lead the ACC in assists. I was so impressed with him that year. I thought they were set at point for the next couple of years.

[The Villi Phanatic]

I'm a big DJ Augustin fan as well. The problem is he's undersized, even for a PG. He has incredible vision though, and is lightning quick. The thing is, he might be the third or fourth PG taken. He's clearly behind Derrick Rose, and Jarryd Bayless from Zona is going to be taken second just because he's a freshman (if he comes out, which is likely). Augustin will battle with Ty Lawson for the 3rd PG taken, although I think Augustin is head and shoulders above Lawson.

I would love to see how DJ does in the pros, but something tells me he'll be taken advantage of physically, somewhat like a Texas PG before him, TJ Ford.

well, Chris Paul is certainly undersized and he seems to be doing alright... but I hear you, I don't know the NBA game all that well nowadays as I haven't followed things much since the strike in 98... I just really like what I've seen from Augustin, even when he was struggling recently...

you think Bayless would go that high? I only caught onto him recently as I saw him play in a couple games in the past few weeks... cat can shoot, that's for sure, I think he put up around 30 in the one game I saw... but I haven't seen enough of him to really call it at this point...

the guy who I've seen a lot of people hype up is Eric Gordon, and he does indeed have a nice skillset and is quick as hell when he makes his initial move with the ball... but there's something that I think he lacks a bit in leading a team and running an offense at least if he's in a PG role, though it could be issues he could overcome as he matures since he's just a freshman... don't know if he's projected as a PG or SG in the pros, but I'd think at 6'4, he'd be too undersized for an off-guard from a defensive standpoint, though again, I don't know the pro game that well anymore...

[SlobberknockerSkinsFan]

Here's a fantastic piece on Duke since 2001:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/stewart_mandel/02/21/duke/index.html

BTW, if you guys are ever yearning for some great insight on college football or basketball, read SI.com. Those guys are 10x better than ESPN.com.

How did this thread get hi-jacked?

Memphis and TN talk please!!!!

PS. Coach K is a putz....

[Touchdown Redskins]

you think Bayless would go that high? I only caught onto him recently as I saw him play in a couple games in the past few weeks... cat can shoot, that's for sure, I think he put up around 30 in the one game I saw... but I haven't seen enough of him to really call it at this point...

the guy who I've seen a lot of people hype up is Eric Gordon, and he does indeed have a nice skillset and is quick as hell when he makes his initial move with the ball...

Yeah I think Bayless will go pretty high. The thing is, the NBA is in love with scoring PGs for some reason. I honestly think it's stupid, because a PG's job is to distribute and make everyone better. I've seen some mocks have him going ahead of Augustin, and I think if Augustin were a bit bigger, he'd probably get taken ahead of Bayless.

As for Gordon, I'm not sure what to make of him. He has a smooth stroke, and he has a great game. But, like you said, he probably projects to a PG in the NBA, and that's not going to bode well for him. He's a scorer, not a passer, and I just don't think he can guard some of the 2s in the league. But we'll see, stranger things have happened, and he definitely has it all offensively.

How did this thread get hi-jacked?

Memphis and TN talk please!!!!

PS. Coach K is a putz....

Haha, sorry man. I say Memphis gets knocked down early in the first half, but comes back on a late run just before halftime. Then their superior athleticism will get the best of Tennessee. I know Tennessee has athletes, too, but they just can't match up with Memphis. Also, Lofton is going to have a down game. He just doesn't have the handle to get his own shot against Memphis, and Memphis will put length on him so that he's challenged when shooting off of screens.

[zoony]

Dude, didn't you get the hint months ago when you were posting? Go away.

:laugh:

He takes a hint well, doesn't he? :laugh:

[pjfootballer]

I agree with SlobberKnocking. Enough of the Puke and Dork Carolina crap, the is Memphis basketball baybee. I was a freshman at Memphis State in 1986 and they were fresh off their Final 4 in 1985 when the hammer came down from the Dana Kirk years. The 1986 squad under Larry Finch still had some good players and we finished 26-7. It was Elliott Perry's freshman year and we couldn't go to the the NCAA's, because of probation. We were lucky we didn't get more sanctions. But the best part was sweeping Louisville 2-0 in the regular season. I went to the game at the Memphis Colesium and we kicked the dogcrap out of Pervis Ellison and the Cards like 86-62. Then, we went to Louisville in the Metro ConferenceTourney and beat them for the title on their own home court. When Louisville went to the Big East, Cinncinati became our rival and damn if we couldn't ever beat them. They always kicked our butts.

[SlobberknockerSkinsFan]

When Louisville went to the Big East, Cinncinati became our rival and damn if we couldn't ever beat them. They always kicked our butts.

Yeah those damn Bearcats.... They were on fire, and we could never put it out....

[Skins247]

Coach K may be one of the greats of all time, but he is certainly not one of the best coaches of this year, or of the past couple years. He has not learned to change with the times, and thus his recruiting classes have suffered. He now only recruits kids who will be "lifers," and not one-and-done kids. While this may serve his ideals as a coach, it definitely does not help his talent pool. On top of this, his teams have been floudering in the tournament since Duke's last title. For some reason, his teams now have a penchant for losing late in the season (consider the recent losses to Wake Forest and Miami).

Roy Williams on the other hand is a great coach, but he benefits from one of the best recruiting positions in the country. A coach with William's background being the coach of an institution like UNC really doesn't have to go out of his way to recruit some of the best players in the game. His last title team had Marvin Williams, Sean May, Rashad McCants, and Raymond Felton all go in the first round of the draft.

Just because K hasn't won a title in recent years doesn't mean he still can't coach. That is ridiculous. Bobby Knight won 902 games. And even he only won 3 titles. I say "only" because Wooden has many more. But its hard to win titles, man. That's my point. Even Dean Smith, as great as he was, only won a few. I don't think K hasn't won more lately because of lack of talent, either. I don't buy that. Like I said, its not easy to win titles. And I really don't see the big deal over them losing to Wake Forest and Miami. Big deal. Wake has been on a roll lately. And Miami has proven that if you don't show up to play against them, or take them lightly, then you can be had. Even if you're Duke. But I do think maybe K messed up by talking about the way Roy handled Lawson's injury. I think that may have took some focuse away from him coaching his team.

And dude, Williams is a great coach. He also won at KU. And he quickly won a title at UNC. The guy can flat out coach. And he can recruit kids. And sure, it helps to be at UNC as far as recruiting. That school, for the most part, recruits on his own. But you still have to have a coach that can make it all come together. And that's where you aren't giving Roy enough credit.

But to say Pearl is a better coach, even currently, is just stupid. Seriously, man. What the **** have the Vols ever done with Pearl?

[Skins247]

Coach K hasnt gotten past the Sweet 16 in 3 years despite all of the recruiting advantages that Duke has. They lost to freaking VCU in the first round last year. He doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the top 10 unless he can make a DEEP run this year.

:doh: