Jethrodsp Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 This place is the pits now. I dont even know why I come over here lately. There is no intelligent conversation. No one tries to see the other side. People make outrageous claims about people they wont ever know personally (both good and bad). What happened to the good ol days of extremeskins when a post actually consisted of more than 5 words and seemed like it had some sort of rational thought behind it? Seems to me that now it serves only as a place for people to whine and cry because things arent going the exact way they think they should go. Someone call the Waambulance quick!! Is Gregg Williams the only coach who could lead the Redskins to the promised land? Would he even have come close? Are you willing to give anyone else a chance? I recall that Williams' stint in Buffalo was far less successful than either Fassel's in NY or Mora's in Atl and yet the uproar about him not being named the "top candidate" by Snyder was huge. To that point, what good does it do Snyder or the Redskins to declare anyone their top candidate? Unless your sure about who you are going to hire, the only consequence of such a declaration is the alienation of other candidates who may in fact be better suited or more qualified for the job. Whoever gets the job, it will be slightly disapointing to me because they arent Joe Gibbs. No one is. But what the Redskins have to do right now is take their time and pick the guy that ownership is the most comfortable working with for the next 5 or more years. I want that. I want Snyder and Cerrato to exhaust all options. Jim Fassel? Sure, bring him in. Mora? Of course. Want to blame someone for the state of flux the team is in? Blame Joe Gibbs. Somehow, through all this media and fan fueled madness Gibbs has escaped all blame. He caught the Redskins completely off guard with his resignation. Not that I dont understand his reasoning behind leaving, his priorities in life are clearly in line. Fact is though, when you are suddenly thrown into the position of trying to replace a legend, it makes sense that you should take your time and get all your ducks in a row before making any kind of official announcement. I think the most important advice that Gibbs has given Snyder is not who the next head coach should be but that Dan should make sure that whatever the choice is he has to be completely comfortable with it and it has to be made as free from outside influence as possible. Seems like Dan is following that to me. Then again, what do I know about the situation. This just seems plausible to me. Much moreso that Gibbs telling Dan Snyder that Gregg Williams should absolutely be the choice without even exploring other possibilities. Enough of my rant. In short, I am happy with the way the coaching search has been conducted. Im sad to see coaches who have meant so much to the team the last 4 years let go but hopeful that their work with the present players was not in vain and the Redskins choose a head coach who brings energy, detail, and wins to Washington. Hail Skins -Jethrodsp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman#21 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Wow what a post!!!!! 5 stars for that! and btw i see good times ahead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I hate to make this kind of post, but Great post. I have been telling my friends the same thing. Even up to the blame Gibbs part. It really changed everything. Not saying someone else can't come in and produce with this team, because they can, its a good team and has good depth. My only problem is the consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haileysbadoldad Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I feel you man. Be a fan we have no control so whatever trash they put out on the field enjoy the fact that they are redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 This place is the pits now.I dont even know why I come over here lately. There is no intelligent conversation. No one tries to see the other side. People make outrageous claims about people they wont ever know personally (both good and bad). What happened to the good ol days of extremeskins when a post actually consisted of more than 5 words and seemed like it had some sort of rational thought behind it? Seems to me that now it serves only as a place for people to whine and cry because things arent going the exact way they think they should go. Someone call the Waambulance quick!! Is Gregg Williams the only coach who could lead the Redskins to the promised land? Would he even have come close? Are you willing to give anyone else a chance? I recall that Williams' stint in Buffalo was far less successful than either Fassel's in NY or Mora's in Atl and yet the uproar about him not being named the "top candidate" by Snyder was huge. To that point, what good does it do Snyder or the Redskins to declare anyone their top candidate? Unless your sure about who you are going to hire, the only consequence of such a declaration is the alienation of other candidates who may in fact be better suited or more qualified for the job. Whoever gets the job, it will be slightly disapointing to me because they arent Joe Gibbs. No one is. But what the Redskins have to do right now is take their time and pick the guy that ownership is the most comfortable working with for the next 5 or more years. I want that. I want Snyder and Cerrato to exhaust all options. Jim Fassel? Sure, bring him in. Mora? Of course. Want to blame someone for the state of flux the team is in? Blame Joe Gibbs. Somehow, through all this media and fan fueled madness Gibbs has escaped all blame. He caught the Redskins completely off guard with his resignation. Not that I dont understand his reasoning behind leaving, his priorities in life are clearly in line. Fact is though, when you are suddenly thrown into the position of trying to replace a legend, it makes sense that you should take your time and get all your ducks in a row before making any kind of official announcement. I think the most important advice that Gibbs has given Snyder is not who the next head coach should be but that Dan should make sure that whatever the choice is he has to be completely comfortable with it and it has to be made as free from outside influence as possible. Seems like Dan is following that to me. Then again, what do I know about the situation. This just seems plausible to me. Much moreso that Gibbs telling Dan Snyder that Gregg Williams should absolutely be the choice without even exploring other possibilities. Enough of my rant. In short, I am happy with the way the coaching search has been conducted. Im sad to see coaches who have meant so much to the team the last 4 years let go but hopeful that their work with the present players was not in vain and the Redskins choose a head coach who brings energy, detail, and wins to Washington. Hail Skins -Jethrodsp while I feel your pain...I disagree with your "the future is ahead of us" thinking. there's a track record. there have been promotions. there have been statements. one can be an ostrich and ignore what is in front of him/her...or one can keep his/her head above ground and try to read what is happening while TRYING to maintain a sense of optimism. can this be done with great precision? perhaps not. but it some things are incontrovertible - such as actions that jibe with public statements. I have been around leaders in powerful positions most of my adult life.....it is very fair and reasonable to think comparatively when watching leaders make decisions...and how they manage the process of change while making those decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 It's just too soon, jethro. I suspect there are a great many Redskins fans taking a long view of this thing, who, like you and I, agree that Gibbs didn't do the team any favors by leaving the way he did. And who don't think the fact this thing is taking several weeks to play out necessarily means the owner's a moron or the team's going to completely tank on the field. I just think most of them, as I've generally been doing, know that they're going to be shouted down if they try to say so. But things will settle down at Ashburn ... and then they'll start to settle down on the boards ... and eventually we'll get around to talking about specifics instead of assumptions, generalities and absolutes as so many are doing now. And for those about to jump down my throat for not being pissed enough ... no, I'm not saying some of the concerns people are voicing aren't valid. I have some too. I just live by the credo that it's good to know what one doesn't know. And I know that there are factors at play here I'm simply not privileged to that would throw a whole lot more light on all of this than what I get from the irresponsible, almost gleeful media and the frustrated venting of other fans. There'll be a long summer to sort it all out though, once we actually have some facts to dissect and the loudest screamers have generally shouted themselves out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike brown Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 great post. as much as i hate to admit it Gibbs is as much to blame as anyone. I will always love Gibbs and wish he would have completed his contract but that didnt happen. I applaud Snyder for taking time and looking under every rock to find the next head coach of the next super bowl champs (i can hope cant i ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I just live by the credo that it's good to know what one doesn't know. And I know that there are factors at play here I'm simply not privileged to that would throw a whole lot more light on all of this than what I get from the irresponsible, almost gleeful media and the frustrated venting of other fans. OM...you know I hold you in the highest regard...but man that response gets old after a while. If what we do know is true...DS just repudiated everything JG stood for and/or put in place. He just fired ALL of JG's leadership team. If reports are to be trusted..yes we have to be careful...he went against JG's preferences. Snyder created his own PR problems on this one. why put out all the BS at the beginning? Snyder dug his own hole on this one which is why I have little to no sympathy. He should have maintained ziplip and gone about doing what he intended in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Don't worry. If these guys don't work out, we'll get some new ones in 2 years. Then everyone will talk about "Yeah! Now we'll finally see some changes here!" again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DixieFlatline Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Want to blame someone for the state of flux the team is in? Blame Joe Gibbs. Somehow, through all this media and fan fueled madness Gibbs has escaped all blame. He caught the Redskins completely off guard with his resignation. Not that I dont understand his reasoning behind leaving, his priorities in life are clearly in line. Fact is though, when you are suddenly thrown into the position of trying to replace a legend, it makes sense that you should take your time and get all your ducks in a row before making any kind of official announcement. Just a clarification for me. For those that want to blame Gibbs, are you angry with him or just noting that his absence is the reason we're going through this? If the former, how could he have handled leaving that would have made this process better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 great post. as much as i hate to admit it Gibbs is as much to blame as anyone. I will always love Gibbs and wish he would have completed his contract but that didnt happen. I applaud Snyder for taking time and looking under every rock to find the next head coach of the next super bowl champs (i can hope cant i ?) that's not the point. he can take 10 years....does that make it a better process? no. it's the thinking behind it...and the philosophy/objectives/vision guiding it. what makes anyone confident that Vinny et al have a philosophy/vision? to be honest...I have never, ever heard the Vinmaster and the inner sanctum voice one. we will find out in due course. but the contradictory statements sure don't do anything to inspire confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 OM...you know I hold you in the highest regard...but man that response gets old after a while. If what we do know is true...DS just repudiated everything JG stood for and/or put in place. He just fired ALL of JG's leadership team. If reports are to be trusted..yes we have to be careful...he went against JG's preferences. Snyder created his own PR problems on this one.why put out all the BS at the beginning? Snyder dug his own hole on this one which is why I have little to no sympathy. He should have maintained ziplip and gone about doing what he intended in the first place. Like I said ... And for those about to jump down my throat for not being pissed enough ... no, I'm not saying some of the concerns people are voicing aren't valid. I have some too.I just live by the credo that it's good to know what one doesn't know. And I know that there are factors at play here I'm simply not privileged to that would throw a whole lot more light on all of this than what I get from the irresponsible, almost gleeful media and the frustrated venting of other fans. Sorry Al, I actually believe that. Even in the face of the outrage of guys I hold in the highest regard. My thoughts on all this aren't going to play on ES the way things are the last few days. I've learned to wait for the dust to settle a bit. Right now nobody's listening anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Nice post - but I disagree that this place is "the pits". Yes, its been a bit chippy lately, but I'm still having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethrodsp Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 Just a clarification for me. For those that want to blame Gibbs, are you angry with him or just noting that his absence is the reason we're going through this? If the former, how could he have handled leaving that would have made this process better? I dont think there is anything he could have done to make this transition any easier. Its tough to replace a legend on such short notice. Perhaps at the end of next season, with Coach Gibbs' contract expiring the Redskins could have prepared for their search with more precision and forthrightness in their direction. As it is though, they had to scramble, regroup, and make critical decisions on a shortened timeframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike brown Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 i dont need to defend Snyder he is a self made man . I certainly dont agree with the 2000 thru 2003 decisions as a whole . i just think he can not be so inane that he didnt learn anything from Gibbs 4 years here, the media and we the fans want to know every little tidbit of info. that we ,and they start making things up . Lets wait for official release before we panic. We are all fans thats why were on this board i will always cheer as hard as i can for the skins , just as i have since 1972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DixieFlatline Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I dont think there is anything he could have done to make this transition any easier. Its tough to replace a legend on such short notice. Perhaps at the end of next season, with Coach Gibbs' contract expiring the Redskins could have prepared for their search with more precision and forthrightness in their direction. As it is though, they had to scramble, regroup, and make critical decisions on a shortened timeframe. I agree. About the only thing I could think of was that Gibbs tell Snyder and they don't announce it for a few days, in order to let Snyder get his feet under him. But with the media asking question of Gibbs right away about him returning next year, I don't think they had that opportunity. But, even if they waited a few days before announcing the retirement, I'm not sure the media circus would have been different considering Snyder would have still taken the same tack. So..in short....I don't think anything could have been different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 So..in short....I don't think anything could have been different. you're sure about this? you don't think Snyder could have saved himself some PR/image problems by not making some statements he made - the bosses "insights/intentions" - at the very begining of all of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Pablo Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Trust me, I've tried to see it from the other side. Without being facetious... I've thought to myself, "sure, Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, and Jeff George are old, but they'll get us a superbowl." I've thought to myself, "Marty Schottenheimer doesn't deserve front office control and he should be fired." I've thought to myself, "Steve Spurrier will revolutionize offensive football in the NFL." I've thought to myself, "Patrick Ramsey, Ladell Betts, and Cliff Russell will be better than Aikman, Smith, and Irvin." I've thought to myself, "Coles, Morton, etc... are way better than any drafted player." I've thought to myself, "Drafting is overrated anyway. Who needs a first round DE?" After experiencing Gibbs II, the only question I ask myself is, "Who's the asshat that made me think these were good ideas?" Now, we're all FORCED into a wait-and-see period for yet another head coach. I'm seriously sick of rationalizing Snyder's moves such that I feel we're in contention every year. Forgive me and the countless others on this board that feel this way. It's not rational, but neither is anything Snyder has put us fans through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaudio5 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I dont think there is anything he could have done to make this transition any easier. Its tough to replace a legend on such short notice. Perhaps at the end of next season, with Coach Gibbs' contract expiring the Redskins could have prepared for their search with more precision and forthrightness in their direction. As it is though, they had to scramble, regroup, and make critical decisions on a shortened timeframe. Maybe if we all knew exactly what Dan was saying when he said "...if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Or him uttering the word "continuity". Maybe just maybe this wouldn't look so bad. Because lets be honest...This really looks bad no matter how much 'shine' is put on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailtotheskins69 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Great post man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryskins Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 But why hire the OC and DC before the HC ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctorfro Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 The word is "Continuity". It can be crucial to a team that is putting something together. As of now we have NO continuity. Expect a made exodus by FAs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DixieFlatline Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 you're sure about this? you don't think Snyder could have saved himself some PR/image problems by not making some statements he made - the bosses "insights/intentions" - at the very begining of all of this? Oh, I think this could have been handled differently by Snyder in the PR area. I guess what I was trying to say was you couldn't avoid the situation of trying to replace a legend of a coach and there was going to be a certain media frenzy regardless of how Snyder handled the PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SearchHorizon Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 OM...you know I hold you in the highest regard...but man that response gets old after a while. If what we do know is true...DS just repudiated everything JG stood for and/or put in place. He just fired ALL of JG's leadership team. If reports are to be trusted..yes we have to be careful...he went against JG's preferences. Snyder created his own PR problems on this one.why put out all the BS at the beginning? Snyder dug his own hole on this one which is why I have little to no sympathy. He should have maintained ziplip and gone about doing what he intended in the first place. Exactly. it's the thinking behind it...and the philosophy/objectives/vision guiding it. what makes anyone confident that Vinny et al have a philosophy/vision? to be honest...I have never, ever heard the Vinmaster and the inner sanctum voice one.we will find out in due course. but the contradictory statements sure don't do anything to inspire confidence. The impression we are getting of "the thought behind it" is "confusion." I cannot help but feel Dan is floundering as he is searching for candidates in random, adhoc fashion, without an objective or a specific goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 My thoughts on all this aren't going to play on ES the way things are the last few days. I've learned to wait for the dust to settle a bit. Right now nobody's listening anyway. After some of my attempts in a couple of threads the past few days, I agree with this assessment. Some here are not capable of rational thought at this moment and are lashing out. Personally, I very much considered stepping away from the board for a little bit, and in some ways I have the past couple of days. Personally, I think things will settle down in a couple of weeks and we will have some normalcy here again. Whether or not the events the past 2-3 weeks are a good thing is up in the air, but I can understand some good reasons why some decisions could have been made and that in the end it could mean the best for this team. It could backfire as well. No matter how smooth you make it, coaching change is always major and will have a strong effect on your team, in either direction. There is no guarantee that keeping the same staff will continue in the improvement shown under Gibbs, if just that Gibbs isn't here anymore. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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