I love the Redskins and ES.

[33]

Thing is, it's also entirely possible that come September, when the new coach and his team hit the field, the fact that there were a few weeks of uncertainty way back in January when Gibbs unexpectedly bailed may have been long forgotten. Particularly if the team hasn't spiked itself in preseason.

On an even playing field I would agree wholeheartedly. The thing is, the Washington media circus is not an even playing field. These guys have been bringing up many things from seasons past. Which is probably a good thing, since they are taking their time to go back and read the notes.

There should be an over/under on Gibbs name being mentioned in print having nothing to do with NASCAR or anything directly related to the 2008 Redskins.

And in regards to your response to be further down the thread, when exactly was Taylor Gibbs pronounced with leukemia? That's an interesting point that I hadn't thought about since I wasn't sure when it all started.

[Helter_Skelter]

This is a deep discussion, I have a lot of the same emotions going on here especially loving our Redskins and ES. I read all posts, but reply to only a few...I don't want to get NNTed or anything for not thinking before I type. Feel me?

I posted a reply earlier about Joe Gibbs' retiring for so called "family reasons", but last week I think it was, I see him on the internet wearing an Interstate Batteries shirt (just in time for Daytona)...so is my thinking he meant "Racing Family" wrong? Would a Redskins' lover or Christian for that matter deceive us all?

Well he's the owner of the team after all and he has things he needs to take care of. Daytona is a big deal and he is there every year, coach of the Skins or not.

[Om]

On an even playing field I would agree wholeheartedly. The thing is, the Washington media circus is not an even playing field. These guys have been bringing up many things from seasons past. Which is probably a good thing, since they are taking their time to go back and read the notes.

There should be an over/under on Gibbs name being mentioned in print having nothing to do with NASCAR or anything directly related to the 2008 Redskins.

And in regards to your response to be further down the thread, when exactly was Taylor Gibbs pronounced with leukemia? That's an interesting point that I hadn't thought about since I wasn't sure when it all started.

I haven't pinned down the exact timeline yet. I do recall that we first heard about it at some point around the beginning of the 2006 season. I remember writing at some point a few weeks into that year that I thought Gibbs looked different ... detached ... and how the fact he seemingly let the ship run adrift for several weeks in the middle of the year was utterly uncharacteristic of him. I speculated then that he'd perhaps not be back in 2007.

Toward the end of the season he seemed to get his mojo back a bit though, and into 2007 it looked like he was engaged again, but I could never really shake the nagging doubt. Then when ST was killed ... well, we all saw the effect on him. I think he knew shortly thereafter he was done after the season.

Back to the timeline ... I read somewhere recently that the diagnosis came in early 2006--I believe I saw January mentioned. Which is right exactly around the time he would have initiated the Saunders move.

I'm not saying this IS what happened, but I've seen and heard enough from people who's opinions I trust to think it was, if not THE driving factor, at least one that played a legitimate role in the move to bring Saunders in.

[InsaneBoost]

Well I wasn't here in the original days, but I most certainly understand what you mean, I will still continue to come here because there are a lot of good members with resources, along with the people who post up to date information.

Just gotta stick it out, if worse comes to worse, start putting people on ignore.

[33]

I haven't pinned down the exact timeline yet. I do recall that we first heard about it at some point around the beginning of the 2006 season. I remember writing at some point a few weeks into that year that I thought Gibbs looked different ... detached ... and how the fact he seemingly let the ship run adrift for several weeks in the middle of the year was utterly uncharacteristic of him. I speculated then that he'd perhaps not be back in 2007.

Toward the end of the season he seemed to get his mojo back a bit though, and into 2007 it looked like he was engaged again, but I could never really shake the nagging doubt. Then when ST was killed ... well, we all saw the effect on him. I think he knew shortly thereafter he was done after the season.

Back to the timeline ... I read somewhere recently that the diagnosis came in early 2006--I believe I saw January mentioned. Which is right exactly around the time he would have initiated the Saunders move.

I'm not saying this IS what happened, but I've seen and heard enough from people who's opinions I trust to think it was, if not THE driving factor, at least one that played a legitimate role in the move to bring Saunders in.

Thanks for the timeline.

As soon as he stated re-learning his priorities as a lesson from ST's death, I knew he was gone. I didn't allow myself to fully believe it, but it was in the back of my mind and I mentioned it to family when they talked about 2008 and his plan.

Let's face it, I'm pretty sure Pat moved back to NC the first year. Sure seemed like it, because I got the impression he never left the park. At 67 that can be more than a bit taxing.

[BMahoney]

You do know you just did the very same thing that your so upset about other people doing, right?

-No I said his thread was hypocritical because he was whining about whiners. I on ther other hand admitted that I enjoy to ***** with my fellow skins fans during hard times, because it's nice to know others are going through the same pain as you (human nature). I responded to the OP, didn't start a new post of my own.... so what is it exactly you were saying? And if your going by that it had nothing to do with the skins, then I guess your in the same boat to huh bud.

[RedskinFan81]

This is a deep discussion, I have a lot of the same emotions going on here especially loving our Redskins and ES. I read all posts, but reply to only a few...I don't want to get NNTed or anything for not thinking before I type. Feel me?

The same for me too. :cool: I'm to tired to post after reading threw the new threads every second!

[Helter_Skelter]

-No I said his thread was hypocritical because he was whining about whiners. I on ther other hand admitted that I enjoy to ***** with my fellow skins fans during hard times, because it's nice to know others are going through the same pain as you (human nature). I responded to the OP, didn't start a new post of my own.... so what is it exactly you were saying? And if your going by that it had nothing to do with the skins, then I guess your in the same boat to huh bud.

Ugh. It came off to me at least that you were whining about someone who you thought was whining about other people whining. Thats what I meant by it. But this is a good thread, so Ill end this now

[worstSeat]

Not sure I follow how you derived what follows the bolded part from what I wrote before, brother. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me (I can't--I'm married), but I generally like to at least know what it is I've actually said they disagree with.

Help a brother out?

It's all good. Here's the quote. I'll try to connect the dots a little better this time.

I just live by the credo that it's good to know what one doesn't know. And I know that there are factors at play here I'm simply not privileged to that would throw a whole lot more light on all of this than what I get from the irresponsible, almost gleeful media and the frustrated venting of other fans.

In brief, I was saying that while there might be something behind the scenes that helps explain what's going on with the FO, that doesn't excuse Snyder's willful neglect of his public relations. This neglect earns him some frustrated venting from fans who might have more of a point that you've given them in the above quote. Snyder knows he looks like an idiot. Sally Jenkins' article on the Post got more than a few heck, yeahs around here. Any time the mainstream press hazards a choice quote like...

Maybe Snyder has a master plan, but at the moment it looks like nonsense, something a little boy would draw in crayon while he waits for the ice cream truck.

... you've caused a problem. Even if the Post is feuding with ownership like they're all writing w/ crayon, wouldn't you rather be above that sort of reproach? Snyder has willfully allowed a picture to be created, no matter what's going on behind the scenes, of himself as a bumbling, clueless, childish owner.

He's clueless, that is, unless he's not really about winning. And I'm pretty sure Snyder's not clueless. If you're about ego, then profit, then, finally, winning -- and then only maybe -- you do what Snyder does.

In a phrase, Snyder's actions paint a picture so poor that no amount of behind the scenes explanation can excuse all of it.

Perhaps there is something that can "throw a whole lot more light on all of this", but the perception is so out of control possible explanations can't matter any more. Snyder needs to get right. This is where I'd link back up to my earlier post. What's going on behind the scenes that would make it okay to have Gibbs stringing along GW? I can't come up with something. Is Snyder more like the fellow who Gibbs said he loved working with -- or is he more the guy who sent Coles melted ice cream?

And I did say I don't "completely agree." I see where you're coming from, and, like VGJ, I'm getting gradually more optimistic about continuity and Fossel. Even so, at this point, there's no way out. Snyder's disregard for his fans has seriously disappointed me again, and there's nothing that can explain all the inanity away. Even if he makes the right choice, I can't help but think he went about doing the choosing the wrong way.

Not sure if I did any better this time. And seriously, if you'd like some help coding something in that'll help people keep track of direct replies to their posts (if it's already in there, I've missed it), lemme know.

[Om]

worstSeat,

Just now saw your reply. Thanks for taking the time.

Short version response is this: no, in general I don't believe Snyder's Redskins have done a very good job at PR. They either don't seem to care enough to try, or just don't know how. Under Gibbs it was little better because of his grandfatherly, "all is well" demeanor. Before and after Gibbs, well, no so much.

Or maybe there's something more to it that I just don't know about. Regardless, fact is they as a rule they do seem to let the press have its way with them generally, and do little in response.

That said, I'm not sure I buy what seems to be the general feeling these days that the Redskins are CREATING their PR problems. I think it's at least equally likely the press in this town creates controversies, whether there are any objectively there or not. Has the Skins search really been all that different from other teams? I'd have to follow those other searches on a daily basis to get a feel for it, but my guess is in those towns their media and fans aren't overly enthused by how the local team has handled the process either. Maybe I"m wrong on that, just a sense.

Guess what I'm saying is, I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment that, for example, every time JLC posts some unsourced rumor on his blog, that then gains traction with the other media and fans, that Snyder, Gibbs, Swanson or anyone else should have to step to the mike to "answer" them. The minute you deny something, it "legitimizes" the issue as a "story," and away we go.

Wrap up (this was going to be "short"): I agree that the Skins current front office doesn't appear the most adept at handling the media circus in this town. I think they do themselves a disfavor by not at least giving the appearance of caring what is being said "out there." But I also think, given what looks to me like clearly agenda-driven coverage by the two major local papers of record and the sportstalk radio crowd, the Skins are probably smart to NOT try to answer every rumor or spun story that gets written on a daily basis. That's a losing proposition, and in their shoes, I'd probably avoid it like the plague too.

*

Note: I am hereby making myself available to the PR Office as a fan liaison. If nothing else, I'll make that media crowd wear down some pencils.

[HSW]

This place is the pits now.

I dont even know why I come over here lately. There is no intelligent conversation. No one tries to see the other side. People make outrageous claims about people they wont ever know personally (both good and bad).

What happened to the good ol days of extremeskins when a post actually consisted of more than 5 words and seemed like it had some sort of rational thought behind it? Seems to me that now it serves only as a place for people to whine and cry because things arent going the exact way they think they should go. Someone call the Waambulance quick!!

Is Gregg Williams the only coach who could lead the Redskins to the promised land? Would he even have come close? Are you willing to give anyone else a chance? I recall that Williams' stint in Buffalo was far less successful than either Fassel's in NY or Mora's in Atl and yet the uproar about him not being named the "top candidate" by Snyder was huge. To that point, what good does it do Snyder or the Redskins to declare anyone their top candidate? Unless your sure about who you are going to hire, the only consequence of such a declaration is the alienation of other candidates who may in fact be better suited or more qualified for the job.

Whoever gets the job, it will be slightly disapointing to me because they arent Joe Gibbs. No one is. But what the Redskins have to do right now is take their time and pick the guy that ownership is the most comfortable working with for the next 5 or more years. I want that. I want Snyder and Cerrato to exhaust all options. Jim Fassel? Sure, bring him in. Mora? Of course.

Want to blame someone for the state of flux the team is in? Blame Joe Gibbs. Somehow, through all this media and fan fueled madness Gibbs has escaped all blame. He caught the Redskins completely off guard with his resignation. Not that I dont understand his reasoning behind leaving, his priorities in life are clearly in line. Fact is though, when you are suddenly thrown into the position of trying to replace a legend, it makes sense that you should take your time and get all your ducks in a row before making any kind of official announcement.

I think the most important advice that Gibbs has given Snyder is not who the next head coach should be but that Dan should make sure that whatever the choice is he has to be completely comfortable with it and it has to be made as free from outside influence as possible. Seems like Dan is following that to me.

Then again, what do I know about the situation. This just seems plausible to me. Much moreso that Gibbs telling Dan Snyder that Gregg Williams should absolutely be the choice without even exploring other possibilities.

Enough of my rant. In short, I am happy with the way the coaching search has been conducted. Im sad to see coaches who have meant so much to the team the last 4 years let go but hopeful that their work with the present players was not in vain and the Redskins choose a head coach who brings energy, detail, and wins to Washington.

Hail Skins

-Jethrodsp

The board is just a reflection of the fan base feels. If the

board is in the pits then that is because the fans feel like they

are in the pits...

[daklieb]

Very refreshing read thank you. The only think I dont agree with is that its Gibbs fault, you cant fault the man for leaving to be with his family. We have to remember he is a person who wants to be with the people he loves as well. It sucks that he decided to leave like he did but I cannot at all fault him for it.

[Guest NebraSKIN]

Snyder Happened.

This place is the pits now.

What happened to the good ol days of extremeskins when a post actually consisted of more than 5 words and seemed like it had some sort of rational thought behind it?

[OxonHillSkinsFan89]

yeah we're all on Edge with everything pertaining to the Skins.

[worstSeat]

Last shot from me, and then you're sincerely welcome to the last word, if you'd like.

Under Gibbs [PR] was little better because of his grandfatherly, "all is well" demeanor. Before and after Gibbs, well, no so much.

...

That said, I'm not sure I buy what seems to be the general feeling these days that the Redskins are CREATING their PR problems. I think it's at least equally likely the press in this town creates controversies, whether there are any objectively there or not. Has the Skins search really been all that different from other teams?

If Gibbs can make that big a difference by himself, then I'll wager that the Skins really have contributed quite a bit to the problem. He's a legend, but I don't think you have to be a legend to get the "breaks" he does. You just have to appear human.

Note: I am hereby making myself available to the PR Office as a fan liaison. If nothing else, I'll make that media crowd wear down some pencils.

Sure hope they take you up on that, jest or no. Great job on the boards, natch, etc. Sign 'im up, Skins!

[mcarey032]

I am not complaining about Williams getting the door shown to him, but I don't think that they should get rid of him in favor of someone who is mediocre himself and doesn't know the team. That doesn't make sense to me. Now if the redskins were to land Cowher or Johnson, I would think that it would be well worth it and that they are the best candidates out there. I don't mind the young turk coordinators either, but I don't want Fassel. He was clearly not even that good as a coordinator and now he is going to be head coach? mmmm I don't think so.