JLC: Skins Denied Attempt at SD QB Coach, Process to Drag On... (Merged)

[richhilljr]

This theory is plausible:

Conclusion: We don't get Fassel or the WCO without the OC as a package deal.

I think this is exactly right. I also think (as I stated in another thread) that Dan and Vinny told Fassell to see if he could assemble a staff. Once the calls started going out and the agents got involved, names where leaked in an effort to bolster guys' stock with their existing teams. It all makes sense to me.

Maybe GW wants to go with the Walsh WCO also, so any moves on the offense will be for either him or Fassell.

Look for GW to become HC and Fassell to become OC, particularly if Spagnoulo (sp?) uses his leverage to get a better offer from Giants, as I think he will because that is the order of the day.

I'm going to predict:

GW=HC with a very short leash

Fassell = OC/QB coach, also with a short leash

Blache = DC

[update--Ramsdell (sp?) is a Norv guy, right? So he would fit into a Coryell system. ]

[ashsra]

Why in the world would Joe want to jump back into this mess? I'm actually a little embarrassed for Gibbs that Danny and Vinny trotted him out there to tell the coaches what's going on. Gibbs should just see say see ya to those 2 idiots and head back down to Charlotte. The glimmer twins don't even have the balls to speak to their own coaching staff. This really is a mess, and I'm worried we're going to end up with a crappy coaching staff just because no one good is available to be hired at this point.

[@DCGoldPants]

As I sit here in my Dallas hotel room, within eye-shot of Texas Stadium which really does look like a giant toilet from the highway. The sounds of an organization way back in Asburn tripping over their own feet is very loud.

You want to take your time and find the "right" guy, then do it. But, don't try to keep secrets if you are starting to suck at it.

While Atlanta is not a big name franchise like Washington. After the Garrett thing, they were very low-key until they made their final hire.

A lot of people shrug off this laughingstock talk. But its real. Care or don't care. That's up to each individual. But, as an owner.....you can't sit in front of the world thanking Joe Gibbs for putting his house in order. Then talk about continuity for awhile, before this circus.

The best thing right now would be to either hire GW and then move training camp out of D.C.. Keep everything under the radar until the 1st preseason game. Don't try to sell me Todd Collins jersey's, or any crap like that. You want to be the owner who has a hand in the day to day stuff. Then do that. Don't try to be the master GM, and the master marketer at the same time. Its ugly.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This theory is plausible:

::: The Todd Collins experience has our braintrust thinking that Campbell isn't a fit for the Saunders-Coryell;

::: Jason ran a run-first variation of the WCO in college and did well with it;

::: Fassel is the best available proponent of the WCO, but he needs a QB coach/WCO experience OC like Zorn to pull it off;

Conclusion: We don't get Fassel or the WCO without the OC as a package deal.

I hope that's not that case, because I think Jason's mechanics would cause him to be a disaster in a pro style WCO.

But - more importantly - what the hell are Danny and Vinny doing in determining what kind of offense is best suited for Jason? Again, that's a coach's decision.

And - yes - the Steelers dictated that LeBeau and the 3-4 remain last year. But he was entrenched and the players were entrenched. It's very different for Danny to suddenly decide that the team should run the wing-t. That's Charley Finley territory.

[rk3025]

We have already passed up the BEST decision of Williams and Saunders

I totally agree. You have to wait around for the best teams to get finished. McDaniels, coming off a Super Bowl win, might try to ride that into his own gig.

Also, we want to hire the correct man, someone who will be around for a long while. If we make the correct decision now, these couple of weeks will just be a blip on the radar.

None of the guys out there are really proven commodities. We need to take our time and do it right.

As to our current coaches, if they are still working, that menas they are under contract. They will get paid whether they work for us next year or not.

One added bonus is that a lot of teams are having to lock guys into bigger contracts to keep them. The mere threat of Snyder brings out the other owners wallets. Look at all the guys who now have "guaranteed" positions, when their boss retires. I like having the other owners all jumpy and jittery.

[ashsra]

I just can't believe what a joke this process has become. Everyone in the NFC East is laughing at us right now. It's almost like everyone in the league is giving Danny his due for being such an ass all these years.

[TankRizzo]

Why in the world would Joe want to jump back into this mess? I'm actually a little embarrassed for Gibbs that Danny and Vinny trotted him out there to tell the coaches what's going on. Gibbs should just see say see ya to those 2 idiots and head back down to Charlotte. The glimmer twins don't even have the balls to speak to their own coaching staff. This really is a mess, and I'm worried we're going to end up with a crappy coaching staff just because no one good is available to be hired at this point.

available? Nobody is going to WANT to coach for us after this. We're going to be the Raiders when it's all said and done.

[Oldfan]

I hope that's not that case' date=' because I think Jason's mechanics would cause him to be a disaster in a pro style WCO.

But - more importantly - what the hell are Danny and Vinny doing in determining what kind of offense is best suited for Jason? Again, that's a coach's decision.

And - yes - the Steelers dictated that LeBeau and the 3-4 remain last year. But he was entrenched and the players were entrenched. It's very different for Danny to suddenly decide that the team should run the wing-t. That's Charley Finley territory.[/quote']

Did you see my poll? 85% of ES members think Dan Snyder will mimic Jerry Jones now that Joe's gone. I'm with the majority.

If you don't hire another guy and give him the same authority that Gibbs had, the power reverts to Danny by default.

I'm not keen on the WCO for Jason. You wanna guess what formation I'd like to see next year?

[bobisimo]

The only way I see Gibbs coming back is if Vinny and Dan's search for a replacement goes so poorly but Dan some how manages to get an agreement with someone like Cowher to coach us starting next year. Then Gibbs might think it worthwhile to stay on a year to protect the organization. I also think some of the assistants might even stay on as lame ducks, knowing they'll have better options available to them since they can spend the next year networking and be more prepared to take advantage of end-of-season firings.

[Seabee1973]

Actually, I wish Joe would just go play with the grand babies! He just needs to distance himself from this process...he obviously has no say in this, and again, it appears he is simply doing damage control for Dan Snyder.

How do you now he has no say in this? Before Gibbs Snyder made the quick flashy hire. He even listened to teh players when they wanted George edwards promoted to DC after Lewis left. I think Snyder has learned patience in the hiring process he is going to find the best coach to lead teh redskins wether it is a guy we have never heard of or Fassell or williams

[Seabee1973]

Again' date=' I must ask:

Why in the hell is Danny and Vinny attempting to put together a staff before the get a head coach?

I really don't understand why Danny always had to try to re-invent the wheel.

Here's the process:

1. Hire the best coach available.

2. Let him assemble a staff.

I understand that Jones hired Garrett before Wade, but I think that was honestly a mistake. Phillips is always going to look like a placeholder.

And I know the Steelers made Tomlin keep Lebeau, but that was a situation where they were keeping part of an existing staff intact.

This is just an odd approach.[/quote']

I think they are trying to get a staff assembled not hire other people befor ethe head coach is announced

[RWJ]

The only way I see Gibbs coming back is if Vinny and Dan's search for a replacement goes so poorly but Dan some how manages to get an agreement with someone like Cowher to coach us starting next year. Then Gibbs might think it worthwhile to stay on a year to protect the organization. I also think some of the assistants might even stay on as lame ducks, knowing they'll have better options available to them since they can spend the next year networking and be more prepared to take advantage of end-of-season firings.

Cowher should be the HC at this point. JG retired a year early and that threw a curve ball to the hiring of Cowher next year, I do believe. It could be that all this delay is that Snyder is begging and pleading for Cowher to coach the team this year. It also could be that he wants someone like Carroll. I do believe that he can't help but hire the biggest names that are available and those 2 are the biggest at this time. As silly as it may sound, I also think that Snyder has low self asteem when it comes to hiring the next HC of the team and won't go with a high ranking OC from NE or DC from the Giants. From a business man's mind, I think he deals with numbers and how many games past HC's have won + playoff and SB records. I think this is what he concentrates on and yes, I think Fassel is a decoy until he can lure or convience the individual he believes is best for the job, in his mind. Just my thoughts.

[@DCGoldPants]

Is it normal to have pressers for both HC's and their Coords?

I mean, if you have your HC, then have your presser. You don't need another for the other coaches.

[PCS]

When this is finally done, ES may need a group therapy session.

[The Sisko]

Yeah, involved doing Danny's dirty work because he's too much of a ***** to do it himself. I don't understand how you just let your employees stew and don't say **** to them for that long and then have a man who just retired do it for you.

Sadly, this is just who Snyder is. The one thing I ever felt badly for Norv about was the way Snyder left him twisting in the wind prior to firing him. There was no reason on earth that he couldn't have simply told Norv right away that he was fired. Then there were the shenanigans like the Ron Lynn vanilla ice cream "hint" about his schemes and the L. Coles TV incident.

It appears that most around here are finally coming around to the view that some of us have been espousing for a long time, i.e.Snyder is just an incompetent, meddling "Richard" with little or no regard for the feelings of his employees. Clearly, spending the last four seasons with Gibbs taught him little. And while some of us here applauded some of his antics, this is the type of thing that managers with class don't do. Sure, you can get away with it for a little while, but eventually word gets around and nobody wants to work for you...nobody worth hiring anyway.

Even if other coaches around the league feel they can handle Snyder's antics, there's still the perception that this could be a career killing job with Snyderatto running the personnel show. So say hello to Da Raiduhs of the East Coast baby!!

[TheLongshot]

You want to take your time and find the "right" guy, then do it. But, don't try to keep secrets if you are starting to suck at it.

What do you mean? I think they've done a very good job at keeping their intentions secret. Nobody has any clue what the Redskins are thinking right now. Note: teams have to ask permission to interview other coaches, which is how the media knows who interviews where. That's why they didn't know about Fassel.

Jason

[Redskins05]

That's how I feel also. We are the laughing stock of the NFC East and for sure the NFC.

So much for continuity and a quick fix. What comes first, free agency or a head coach?

[Guest strongkaracter]

It's just an utter mess!! It should have been Williams already and looking for ways to tweek the offensive line, get a big receiver, as well as a pass rushing DE. But noooooo....we have to be crapping with this bull!! SMH!!!

[fansince62]

At the risk of being rude...how do you know what Fassal said in his interview process that impressed them?

How do you know Greg Williams would be the right guy?

And what is the benefit of keeping a continuity that finished 9-7 in a bad conference, blew numerous leads, and has an aging roster at several key positions?

That screams clean house to me, and build around a few key spots. I'm betting it says the same thing to the FO.

Not wanting to rush means looking at everyone, but also not caring what you or I think. We don't know ****. We need to let this play out before we get impatient.

It's funny how fans bash Dan's impatience with winning and looking for the quick fix-and yet people want to dimiss a full scale coaching search in order to get it over with.

I don't think so. I think 90% of the frustration stems from the knowledge that the first official move was to promote Vinny to a position that consolidated personnel matters under his aegis.....and most folks on this board simply don't place Vinny at the high end of the spectrum when it comes to building championship teams. right or wrong...there is a sense that we are doomed to years more of a reach that exceeds our football grasp.

[fansince62]

What do you mean? I think they've done a very good job at keeping their intentions secret. Nobody has any clue what the Redskins are thinking right now. Note: teams have to ask permission to interview other coaches, which is how the media knows who interviews where. That's why they didn't know about Fassel.

Jason

wellllll...if secrecy is the prime mover here...I know a lot of unemployed, has been coaches!

[bulldog]

this organization is doomed. while other teams, including those that had HC vacancies, are starting to work on free agency and the draft, the Redskins are planning to extend their search into February? :laugh:

so, the failure to get Rex Ryan and Jim Zorn to take laterals here in Washington was cause to stop the process on Fassel?

then Fassel must not be a very strong figure.

who would pause to hire a Bill Parcells or Tony Dungy because he couldn't get the offensive coordinator he preferred? :laugh:

you go after name #2 on your list

but not these guys.

Snyder is so in love with the process he has lost sight of what is really important - winning games starting in September.......................

which means preparing adequately for the offseason.

and this team by all accounts will be WEEKS behind the others when we hit crunch time.

note that Vinny Cerrato missed the Senior Bowl and a chance to watch 80 potential draft choices in order to sit in on the SECOND all-day meeting with Snyder and Fassel.

what takes that long to discuss?

does the coach have to play and beat Snyder at a game of chess or backgammon to remain in the running? :laugh:

Brian Mitchell is 100% correct, the Redskins are becoming a laughingstock again.

Whatever respect was accorded Gibbs on his return is definitely gone now.

We are back to Danny-ball.

[fansince62]

well...bulldog...wouldn't it be a riot if all potential HCs...including GW...turned DS down?!!!

that would be amazing!

[bulldog]

If I were Williams I would be looking to get out of DC as fast as possible.

Gregg isn't hurting. He made head coach money the past 4 years running half the team and so I could see him returning to the AFC and working with Jack Del Rio in Jacksonville, a team that is not so far away from a championship.

What would be a better way of showing up the Danny than going to work for a club that may be in the Super Bowl sooner rather than later?

[RWJ]

Just asking a question here and I certainly understand how some people feel about GW and all the other assistants moving on to other teams if, let's say Fassel is hired as HC. God help us all!!! What would be the better hire out there for HC besides GW that Snyder is trying to get. Comments, please. I am curious to see what everyone has to respond to this question.

[skinfan2k]

If I were Williams I would be looking to get out of DC as fast as possible.

Gregg isn't hurting. He made head coach money the past 4 years running half the team and so I could see him returning to the AFC and working with Jack Del Rio in Jacksonville, a team that is not so far away from a championship.

What would be a better way of showing up the Danny than going to work for a club that may be in the Super Bowl sooner rather than later?

thats what this team needs, a player that they get rid or a former coach winning a superbowl else where