JLC: Skins Denied Attempt at SD QB Coach, Process to Drag On... (Merged)

[HailSkinz1]

If what JLC says is true, this is very good news. Wait until the Super Bowl is over and interview some more coaches from good, winning teams (preferrably the Patriots). Stop with this Fassel nonsense.

While I think GW deserves a shot, I have no problem with us expanding our search. I would rather take a chance on an unproven assistant coach from a winning team than a coach who is a proven mediocre coach. I think the retread failures far exceed the retread success stories. Everyone wants to find the next Billicheck, but that ain't going to happen. Let's try to find the next Gibbs I.

Hail,

H

[Dick Edds]

At the risk of being rude...how do you know what Fassal said in his interview process that impressed them?

How do you know Greg Williams would be the right guy?

And what is the benefit of keeping a continuity that finished 9-7 in a bad conference, blew numerous leads, and has an aging roster at several key positions?

That screams clean house to me, and build around a few key spots. I'm betting it says the same thing to the FO.

Not wanting to rush means looking at everyone, but also not caring what you or I think. We don't know ****. We need to let this play out before we get impatient.

It's funny how fans bash Dan's impatience with winning and looking for the quick fix-and yet people want to dimiss a full scale coaching search in order to get it over with.

b/c Dan does not understand when to use patience. You may look at patience as making sure you take the time to go through the "process" (which is a friggn joke) of finding the best man.

But patience is actually the opposite of what you insinuate here. Patience is staying with what was already built ... and giving it a chance, not jumping ship. Realizing that you already have 2 of the best coaches in the league and an entire staff ready to go to battle for you to make a super bowl run.

Not holding all your guys in limbo, while you try to find their replacements. Essentailly alienating everyone.

Taking a long time to find the right people to totally undo all that has been built these last 4 years is not patience ... it's precisely the opposite.

[RWJ]

It seems quite odd the JG is even being mentioned in the process. If true, to me it's kind of a slap in the face to the coaches he hired. If false, then it makes more sense. I would say JG is leaving all the searching and interviewing to Snyder and Cerrato and then he's going to brief his ex-coaching staff. Why Cerrato can't do this makes me think, for a better lack of a word WIMP.

[RedskinsFanatic]

Wow. What a POS Snyder is. Leaving the current coaching staff in the dark and then he couldn't be man ennough to call the coaches and give them an update. Instead he had Joe do his dirty work.

Isn't that a bit harsh?............I mean really, how do you feel? :point2sky

[HigSkin]

It seems quite odd the JG is even being mentioned in the process. If true, to me it's kind of a slap in the face to the coaches he hired. If false, then it makes more sense. I would say JG is leaving all the searching and interviewing to Snyder and Cerrato and then he's going to brief his ex-coaching staff. Why Cerrato can't do this makes me think, for a better lack of a word WIMP.

Not only a Wimp but isn't the coaching staff his responsibity now? Geez...what a tool.:doh:

[bobisimo]

It seems that they only want to hire Fassel if he comes in a package that includes certain assistants. Certainly a little unorthodox.

True, but not completely out of the ordinary. As mentioned before, you can hire an older re-tread (Phillips) if you have an up-and-coming hot shot (Garrett) that needs a little time and experience to be ready. It can work, I think, even if the HC knows he is simply holding the position. I can only assume the front office thought Zorn and Ryan were the up-and-coming hot shot potential head coaches to off-set re-tread Fossil.

That said, if I were either up-and-comer I'd have been very hesitant to take a coordinator job. I mean, once upon a time Williams was the hot coordinator with the promise (with cash) of the HC job, and that didn't work out so well for him. To be even more honest, I'd be a little hesitant to take a 'Skins job period unless I was very confident about the situation, or was using the situation as a one-year stop on the way to future promotions.

Isn't JLC looking a bit the fool right now?

Why? He's just a reporter. He talks to other people who know or think they know something, and then shares that with his readers.

And what is the benefit of keeping a continuity that finished 9-7 in a bad conference, blew numerous leads, and has an aging roster at several key positions?

It's a good question. Very good. I would argue that, as others have said, we brought Gibbs back to create a direction. I don't think it was ever, truly, expected that Gibbs would win 12-14 games a season and then his assistants would simply repeat those efforts year-in and year-out. I think the idea was that Gibbs would set a proper direction and start traction, and then fresher, younger, eager coaches would maintain the course and take us into uncharted waters.

Obviously, that looks like it won't happen. Gibbs set a direction and did establish some traction. The team has an identity. The team has leadership. The team has character players. Etc. But now, at the next stage, the stage where Saunders and Williams were supposed to come in and take us to the next level (regular play-off competitors, potential Super Bowls), we're starting over. It has to be discouraging. Even if we bring in the OC from the Patriots and the DC from the Giants and they split the HC duties (or whatever dream Free Agent-esque headline sizzle Snyder could come up with), there's still so much to wonder (and worry) about. How long until their systems stick? How long until they have the talent they need to fuel their systems? How good are their chances without the same front office that the Pats and Giants have? And, most importantly, how loyal will Snyder be to the new crew?

The status quo at least buys the good will of the fans to continue believing that Snyder will be loyal. But starting over and rebuilding the team also forces the fans to start over in their loyalty and then have to rebuild it for the team.

*shrug* I like change. Its exciting. The more change the 'Skins undergo, the more they are in the news. The more things change, the more the possibility for better days there are. But after a while, people get tired of change. I'm loyal to the 'Skins and I'll be optimistic about the season no matter what, but I have to admit I am really curious about the direction Snyder ultimately picks.

And with all the ego GW has (in this case, a positive thing), I'm not so sure he would even accept the job now if he was offered it.

Completely disagree. Completely. Double-G wants that HC job so badly it burns. He'll take any ego knocks as part of the process if he can get the job. I would be so stunned if Snyder offered Williams the HC job and Williams said, "Wah. But I wasn't your first choice. I don't want it anymore." In fact, I would probably be equal parts stunned and dying from fits of laughter.

[RWJ]

I sit here and read all these threads about what this media outlet says and that media outlet says and it just makes me think there is a certain someone that Skins Brass is waiting for. Who it is I don't know, but I truly believe they have someone targeted and that candidate is still trying to make a final decision.

[fwo40]

b/c Dan does not understand when to use patience. You may look at patience as making sure you take the time to go through the "process" (which is a friggn joke) of finding the best man.

But patience is actually the opposite of what you insinuate here. Patience is staying with what was already built ... and giving it a chance, not jumping ship. Realizing that you already have 2 of the best coaches in the league and an entire staff ready to go to battle for you to make a super bowl run.

Not holding all your guys in limbo, while you try to find their replacements. Essentailly alienating everyone.

Taking a long time to find the right people to totally undo all that has been built these last 4 years is not patience ... it's precisely the opposite.

You're presumming something large here.

That what was already built is close to working toward it's ultimate goal. I don't know of much hard evidence to support that-and this part is my speculation I think it's not-based on a variety of factors. Also, I would argue that Gibbs had earned all the patience (by your definition) in the world...but Greg has earned nothing head coaching wise.

Again I ask "all that has been built"? Really? We have an old roster, a young QB who hasn't shown he can execute the offensive system (though i like his raw talent), and not the best depth.

We haven't built much of anything...we were lucky to get in the playoffs in '05 and again this season. The team played well in streches and sucked in others. It isn't anything definite to give us a glimpse of where we're headed.

Bottom line is that if Dan doesn't think he can get along with GW, or that GW isn't the right man for the team-nothing we say as fans should matter-b/c if GW did get the job it would fail in a similar fashion to the way Marty did.

Frankly I don't care if fans have patience or not-it would just be better for the board in general if people didn't get aggravated over something they have zero 1sthand knowledge of.

[scruffylookin]

I have NO probelm with the Redskins waiting to interview McDaniels and/or Spagnuolo. I want the best guy-- not just a hire so ES can relax a week earlier.

Totally agree.

If those are the two guys they want to wait for and talk to about the HC job, I'll be ecstatic.

That's the kind of guys we should be talking to about this job and not a bunch of retreads (GW included). :2cents:

[kingfish50]

b/c Dan does not understand when to use patience. You may look at patience as making sure you take the time to go through the "process" (which is a friggn joke) of finding the best man.

But patience is actually the opposite of what you insinuate here. Patience is staying with what was already built ... and giving it a chance, not jumping ship. Realizing that you already have 2 of the best coaches in the league and an entire staff ready to go to battle for you to make a super bowl run.

Not holding all your guys in limbo, while you try to find their replacements. Essentailly alienating everyone.

Taking a long time to find the right people to totally undo all that has been built these last 4 years is not patience ... it's precisely the opposite.

Another good one. You hit it right on the head. I'm not one bit impressed with the length of time this circus he's created is taking. More of a slap in GW's face than trying to do the right thing.

Doing the right thing and being patient would be to stick with the game plan that Joe Gibbs set up for you. A tweak here and there, we take our division. But as usual, Danny screws everything up that he touches and tries to emulate (according to Art's theory) Jerry Jones, a damn Cowboy!

I never thought that I would ever see the day that an owner of the once, proud Washington Redskins try to emulate and be like the owner of the dallASS cowBoys! Look at the interviews he's been doing. Zorn (OC), talk of Ryan at DC and we don't even have a HC yet. Sound familiar?

[Forever21]

If Dan is actually listening to the fans then I will be worried.

The last thing any franchise owner should ever do is listen to the fans on matters of personel.

Prices on merch and concessions yes. Personel? no.

[bobisimo]

I never thought that I would ever see the day that an owner of the once, proud Washington Redskins try to emulate and be like the owner of the dallASS cowBoys! Look at the interviews he's been doing. Zorn (OC), talk of Ryan at DC and we don't even have a HC yet. Sound familiar?

Generally agree, but Jones isn't doing so badly. And emulating the Cowboys of the last season wouldn't be such a bad thing, either. I'll happily take 13 wins and home-field advantage.

[SnyderMustGo]

It's becoming readily apparent to me that the problem is that coaches simply do not want to come here. Maybe it's Danny. Maybe its Vinny. Maybe it is a perceived problem with the roster and the salary cap. But it is clear that coaches do not want to be here. I can guarantee you this: if these coaches wanted to come here, the teams would not be blocking it. The last thing the teams want are pissed off coaches who have one foot out the door.

Mora turning down the offer. Cowher turning it down. Ryan turning it down. Zorn turning it down. All the coaches we are interested in turn us down with the exception of Fassel who can't get any job, so he will take whatever he can get.

All coaches want more money, more power, more exposure. But we have coaches turning us down. Why is that?

Do you think it is Danny?

Vinny?

Salary cap?

Roster?

I'm sure some will argue that all of the problems are because of other teams, but that's BS. Coaches leave teams all the time. The problem is coaches do not want to come here!

[fwo40]

It's a good question. Very good. I would argue that, as others have said, we brought Gibbs back to create a direction. I don't think it was ever, truly, expected that Gibbs would win 12-14 games a season and then his assistants would simply repeat those efforts year-in and year-out. I think the idea was that Gibbs would set a proper direction and start traction, and then fresher, younger, eager coaches would maintain the course and take us into uncharted waters.

Obviously, that looks like it won't happen. Gibbs set a direction and did establish some traction. The team has an identity. The team has leadership. The team has character players. Etc. But now, at the next stage, the stage where Saunders and Williams were supposed to come in and take us to the next level (regular play-off competitors, potential Super Bowls), we're starting over. It has to be discouraging. Even if we bring in the OC from the Patriots and the DC from the Giants and they split the HC duties (or whatever dream Free Agent-esque headline sizzle Snyder could come up with), there's still so much to wonder (and worry) about. How long until their systems stick? How long until they have the talent they need to fuel their systems? How good are their chances without the same front office that the Pats and Giants have? And, most importantly, how loyal will Snyder be to the new crew?

The status quo at least buys the good will of the fans to continue believing that Snyder will be loyal. But starting over and rebuilding the team also forces the fans to start over in their loyalty and then have to rebuild it for the team.

*shrug* I like change. Its exciting. The more change the 'Skins undergo, the more they are in the news. The more things change, the more the possibility for better days there are. But after a while, people get tired of change. I'm loyal to the 'Skins and I'll be optimistic about the season no matter what, but I have to admit I am really curious about the direction Snyder ultimately picks.

This is a great post.

What i would say on the direction front though, is that many reports and many fans had Al Saunders out the door even if GW is hired head coach. If Saunders goes IMO the most important section of this continuity arguement is blown.

A DC that comes in could easily run a similar style with our players to whatever they wanted to do....sadly and simply without Sean Taylor the defense doesn't have any real playmakers that "have to be" in certain roles. A DC could come in and build on what we have quite easily.

On offense however, you're looking at another change in philosphy which might even need new personel. A real #1 WR for example, and yes yet another new playbook for Jason Campbell.

People seem real upset about GW getting passed over or replaced, but don't seem as upset with the idea of letting Al go, when in reality his continuity is much more important.

I for one think it's not so bad to let go of Al, but I understand that means hiring someone new and begining to clean a little house on that side of the ball. I don't have an issue with that.....I don't think Gibbs or Al had the right pieces in place there....and altering direction isn't that big a deal.

Which to me means, it isn't the end of the world if Al and GW are gone. In fact, under the right hire, keeping the younger talent we have and trying to augment that talent around a newer offensive system (where WR's catch TD passes for example)...wouldn't be abadoning Gibbs' work, it would just be the next step in evolving.

[Joe Sick]

I have NO probelm with the Redskins waiting to interview McDaniels and/or Spagnuolo. I want the best guy-- not just a hire so ES can relax a week earlier.

I totally agree. You have to wait around for the best teams to get finished. McDaniels, coming off a Super Bowl win, might try to ride that into his own gig.

Also, we want to hire the correct man, someone who will be around for a long while. If we make the correct decision now, these couple of weeks will just be a blip on the radar.

None of the guys out there are really proven commodities. We need to take our time and do it right.

As to our current coaches, if they are still working, that menas they are under contract. They will get paid whether they work for us next year or not.

One added bonus is that a lot of teams are having to lock guys into bigger contracts to keep them. The mere threat of Snyder brings out the other owners wallets. Look at all the guys who now have "guaranteed" positions, when their boss retires. I like having the other owners all jumpy and jittery.

[kingfish50]

You're presumming something large here.

That what was already built is close to working toward it's ultimate goal. I don't know of much hard evidence to support that-and this part is my speculation I think it's not-based on a variety of factors. Also, I would argue that Gibbs had earned all the patience (by your definition) in the world...but Greg has earned nothing head coaching wise.

Again I ask "all that has been built"? Really? We have an old roster, a young QB who hasn't shown he can execute the offensive system (though i like his raw talent), and not the best depth.

We haven't built much of anything...we were lucky to get in the playoffs in '05 and again this season. The team played well in streches and sucked in others. It isn't anything definite to give us a glimpse of where we're headed.

Bottom line is that if Dan doesn't think he can get along with GW, or that GW isn't the right man for the team-nothing we say as fans should matter-b/c if GW did get the job it would fail in a similar fashion to the way Marty did.

Frankly I don't care if fans have patience or not-it would just be better for the board in general if people didn't get aggravated over something they have zero 1sthand knowledge of.

In other words fwo, we should just STFU? Blindly follow an owner who is about to dismantle a pretty good team? That's right, I said pretty good and you wrote that we are old with a young QB? Samuels, Jansen, Griffen, Smoot, Springs, Fletcher. Those are the elders of the team and they still have a few productive years left in them. So where is the problem with age on this team that you stated?

And fwo, we can make a difference as has been written in JLC's blog. Because of the outrage by us fans, it seems Danny has put a hold on things for the time being.

If you want to be the rat that follows the pied piper, be my guest but don't preach to us that we should do the same. We do this because we are Redskin fans and we really do care.

[LuvtheSkins428]

Maybe this article has something to do with the hold up. Does Dan have a cash flow problem?

"Says one lawyer, “He can’t tolerate the price of Six Flags stock being this low for very long. Don’t expect to see the Redskins spending a lot of money.”

http://www.washingtonian.com/blogarticles/people/capitalcomment/6295.html.

[fwo40]

In other words fwo, we should just STFU? Blindly follow an owner who is about to dismantle a pretty good team? That's right, I said pretty good and you wrote that we are old with a young QB? Samuels, Jansen, Griffen, Smoot, Springs, Fletcher. Those are the elders of the team and they still have a few productive years left in them. So where is the problem with age on this team that you stated?

And fwo, we can make a difference as has been written in JLC's blog. Because of the outrage by us fans, it seems Danny has put a hold on things for the time being.

If you want to be the rat that follows the pied piper, be my guest but don't preach to us that we should do the same. We do this because we are Redskin fans and we really do care.

You don't need to STFU....but you do need perhaps a little perspective before you get so angry.

For one thing-you know nothing more than they do about coaching hires.

You cannot say with any certainity that GW would be a better coach than Fassal.

No one knows anything definite about a "dismantling" unless that comes from having to replace older guys who make too much-and that would come under any coach as necessity-not as organizational philosphy.

And lastly...you do not want the owner of a professional football team to listen to the fans on personel and hiring decisions. You just don't. It's insanity-just b/c in this instance you think it favors your point of view, in no way is it a good business model to listen to fans who have no access to real NFL info to determine player or coaching moves.

If you don't see why that's a bad idea, well- I guess we don't have much to talk about.

Also, for the record I believe that idea that JLC is circulkating is to explain his rush and others to put Fassel in the job before it was official-and is not real. We'd all better hope it's not.

[bobisimo]

What i would say on the direction front though, is that many reports and many fans had Al Saunders out the door even if GW is hired head coach. If Saunders goes IMO the most important section of this continuity arguement is blown.

Good points.

I admit that I was one (of the few?) who was excited about Al Saunders coaching here next year. While many correctly looked at how feeble our offense was capable of being, I held the (biased?) view that without Gibbs to handcuff him, our offense would take off and look more like the St Louis and KC variants.

And I felt like that would get us into that 11 or 12 win club where you have decisions to make such as whether or not to rest starters in the final week of the season - after you've locked up a play-off spot and maybe even home-field advantage for some games - or play the starters to affect your play-off positioning.

When I first heard that Snyder was down on Saunders, that did affect everything. Like you said, Saunders was in a way the piece that held the continuity theory together. Still, for whatever reason, I have this thought in my head that if Williams get named as the HC that somehow Saunders will stay on and that will mean good things. I guess that's not realistic.

Still, all in all, despite the drama and turmoil, I am optimistic. :\ Haha. If we bring in some young, hot shot coordinators, I won't be able to help but believe that Snyder has a long-term plan in mind will brilliant football minds, and that will help ease the pain of the great transition. And if Double-G stays in? Then we get to see what continuity means and how good Gibbs' plan was. Haha. Even when I'm critical I'm such a homer.

[RWJ]

Maybe this article has something to do with the hold up. Does Dan have a cash flow problem?

"Says one lawyer, “He can’t tolerate the price of Six Flags stock being this low for very long. Don’t expect to see the Redskins spending a lot of money.”

http://www.washingtonian.com/blogarticles/people/capitalcomment/6295.html.

I think Danny has got plenty of money.

[Oldfan]

Originally Posted by Lombardi's_kid_brother

Why in the hell is Danny and Vinny attempting to put together a staff before the get a head coach?

Jason: It seems that they only want to hire Fassel if he comes in a package that includes certain assistants. Certainly a little unorthodox.

This theory is plausible:

::: The Todd Collins experience has our braintrust thinking that Campbell isn't a fit for the Saunders-Coryell;

::: Jason ran a run-first variation of the WCO in college and did well with it;

::: Fassel is the best available proponent of the WCO, but he needs a QB coach/WCO experience OC like Zorn to pull it off;

Conclusion: We don't get Fassel or the WCO without the OC as a package deal.

[Never21Forgotten36]

Completely disagree. Completely. Double-G wants that HC job so badly it burns. He'll take any ego knocks as part of the process if he can get the job. I would be so stunned if Snyder offered Williams the HC job and Williams said, "Wah. But I wasn't your first choice. I don't want it anymore." In fact, I would probably be equal parts stunned and dying from fits of laughter.

It's not neccessarily about whether or not he is the first choice or not. I just think he would feel disrespected in the fact that ALL of the coaches have been handcuffed to the team, losing out on other potential positions around the league should they not be retained, and not getting any kind of feedback from any higher ups within the organization throughout this entire process.

I don't know, honestly. None of us know what to think or what is going on. They could all know what is going on and are just on a gag order from Snyder about it all. I don't know.

I'm just saying that if the reporting is accurate in the fact that the current coaching staff knows just as much about what is going on as we do, then how can you not pissed off and feel disrespected.

GW would more likely than not take the job if it was offered to him, I'm just saying, what if he turns it down due to the alleged non-contact that is going on between Snyratto and the current staff? That's all.

[mike brown]

just read gibbs had to make phone calls to all current coaching staff to update them i can see this situation going something like jets and parcells few years ago he wasnt going to coach then decided no one else fit i hope gibbs does an about face :helmet: :helmet: :helmet:

[DButz65]

You better post a link or NNT hehheh

[Commander Chaaarmnder]

One can dream right?

I just want this madness to stop. Everyone around here has been at each others throats lately. As I read earlier, this board is about to "implode" between the fassel rumors and lack of information in general