Classless In Seattle

[NorCal]

Well, I really think that you could travel to San Francisco (I've been there) or Arizona next year and likely have a much better experience. Candlestick is harmless, I went there a few years ago with a 49er fan and we tailgated a bit with other fans and they were all very polite to me, despite me rooting for the Skins.

I'd have to disagree with the part about SF fans. IMO, they are rude. You're gonna have @ss fans everywhere, the SF rude fans are mainly the 20 somethings (probably same age with seattle fans and any other team).

I did not encounter any rude fans at the game on either side. Everyone was very welcoming, but of course there were a few drunks who ruin things.

I did not go to the parking lot so I don't know what they were like. Spent my pre-game across the stadium at the bar across the street ("King Street bar and oven"). There were a few skins fans there including the Hogettes but no "trouble", just a good time.

(sorry to hear of your experience Monk but don't let one bad apple (barrel of apples) ruin the whole bunch.)

[9_to_42_td]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I also led our section (307) in singing HHTR after the first and second touchdown, then again when recovered the kickoff. Just like you did, I did not use profanity or was rude in any way, I just showed them we still have heart and faith in our team. I also reminded them at halftime when we were down 10-0 that we scored two touchdowns in Dallas two years ago in the last two minutes of the game. The look on their face was priceless when we scored two TD's in two minutes in the fourth:D . Almost the same look a kid has on his face when he opens a christmas present and finds a sweater instead of a toy:silly:

Mike this what you get when you venture to an opposing teams stadium without Halter.

[Skins&Terps07]

Just got back from Seattle this morning. Despite the loss it was really a great time out there.

The fans were by far the most classless and hostile fans I have ever encountered, and I have been to a good amount of road games for both college and pro. I would have expected this is Philly, but I've been to Philly and this was much worse. Their fans were physically confrontational and really took the whole intimidate the visiting fans thing to a new level. The stuff said about Sean Taylor was just disgusting. Rarely would I ever complain about being a visiting fan in a road stadium, but these fans took it way too far. Anyone who says otherwise was probably not there or is in denial. We did a real good job representing though, the B&G is a family and we all stuck together.

I guess I'd be bitter too if I never saw the sun and none of my teams had ever won a championship. The 12th man thing is a joke as well. The place was loud, but it's a playoff game, it's supposed to be loud. I've been in much louder stadiums. They ripped the 12th man thing off of Texas A&M also.

Right now I'd root for any other team over them, even the Cowboys and Patriots. At least the Dallas fans were all class after the ST thing.

[skinsince72]

Want to hear something funny? I went to Seattle's board last night and posted the link to that story from the Washington Post. The one about fans reporting of the abuse they endured at the game. I labeled the post " ". That's it, just a frown and did not type anything in the thread.

After about 25 minutes and 10 or so views, a few Seattle fans started to reply. All but one apologized for the behavior and said they were pretty much disgusted. One fan then said the reporter "made up" the story. I then tried to post on my thread and say that all teams have their share of a**holes and congratulated them for their win. But my post never showed up. Why? Because the mods out there took my thread off!! Isn't that some sh**? I did not talk trash about their team. Just posted an article from our area and the mods took it off. Almost like it was too embarassing to have on their board.

They truly have a warped sense of their team out there. I have seen our mods keep threads posted by trolls all the time. We must know the meaning of free speech here in DC. That stuff in Seattle is scary. Not that the team is scary but the mindset of a BUNCH of their fans and the sensor happy mods out there. Not to mention the reporters who wrote those things about Sean.

As for the original poster of this thread, I am truly sorry you and your girlfriend had to endure that. You both did the right thing though. Any type of violence on your part could have had a dangerous outcome. Be intelligent about it like a letter to Seattle's mayor or Washington's governor. Write a very long one and include that you were once a Seattle resident and will never recommend Seattle to anyone. Heck, write VA's governor and ask that he speak to or write the official in Washington. It may not produce very much but wouldn't you love an elected official out there to tell Seattle's owner to put a leash on some of those animals?

[isle-hawg]

Just got back from Seattle this morning. Despite the loss it was really a great time out there.

Right now I'd root for any other team over them, even the Cowboys and Patriots. At least the Dallas fans were all class after the ST thing.

Me too, without hesitation!!!

[PCS]

As I stated in other threads, I was hoping that the experience for many 2 years ago was an isolated thing, but guess not. Very glad that the OP and his girlfriend came out of this relatively unscathed and held themselves above the fray. This is a genuinely good thing and something many should aspire to as well. It's also the safest thing. Having been in that situation,(and as a man, I understand how tough it would be to do this with your girlfriend on the receiving end), you have to keep your head about you and realize that by retaliating, something a whole lot bigger could get started and others besides yourself could easily get hurt as well. All that said, the silver lining, thin as it may be, is that fans got to see their Skins in a playoff game. Win or lose, all the other stuff aside, that's a pretty cool thing to be able to experience.

[JWB]

Just remember, they haven't brought any Hardware home. And they most likely never will. How long has Holmgren been there? And they still think that the sun will come out tomorrow. Come on Green Bay!!!

[Natmagic]

It’s my off season resolution to bring karma into the life of John McGrath. I've never felt such hatred for a member of the media

I’m stunned with regards to exactly how wretched, classless and void of souls Seattle fans really are. And for the record, the only reason the hawk fans get so much credit for being loud is that Bose speaker of a stadium Paul Allen built for his soft, rainy day coffee sipping, depressed, liberal northwestern Frasier watching “fans”. Listening to NFC West fans talking about being hardcore is like having to endure a Hillary speech/lecture on the economy – makes you feel as if you need a shower

I’ll save praying for world peace for the masses…

I pray we find away to stop wasting all the sound from Fed-Ex -- It’s proven to be the opposite of RFK when it comes to keeping the sound raining down on the field

"You take the positives out of it, and you had a franchise come together," said Portis, who made the emotional phone calls to his teammates from Miami to inform them of Taylor's death. "You had a bunch of guys show love for one another and appreciation for one another. That's the best thing that can happen in sports. This organization turned from a team to a family."

GOD BLESS COACH GIBBS AND THE REDSKIN FAMILY

Let Taylor talk rest in peace, too

JOHN MCGRATH; THE NEWS TRIBUNE

Published: January 4th, 2008 01:00 AM

As the Washington Redskins continue their very public grieving over murdered teammate Sean Taylor, the distinction between mourning the dead and exploiting the dead is becoming ever more blurry.

Before attending the Dec. 3 funeral for the Pro Bowl free safety – an innocent victim in the botched burglary of his South Florida home – the Redskins paid their respects during a stirring pregame tribute culminated by the defense lining up for its first play against Buffalo without a free safety.

Washington players wore No. 21 decals on their helmets – the decals were distributed to players around the NFL – and dedicated the remainder of their season to the talented, once troubled young man who died before those outside the Redskins’ headquarters learned of his newfound commitment to responsibility.

But the solemn dignity of the Missing Man tribute has devolved into a maudlin circus that’s turned Taylor from a tragic figure into the patron saint of an improbable Super Bowl contender.

It’s one thing when the slain safety is commemorated by hats, T-shirts, souvenir magnets and No. 21 rally towels, as proceeds from those sales are being funneled toward a memorial fund the Redskins have established for Taylor’s 1-year-old daughter.

On the other hand, what is the team’s motive in releasing a depth chart noting that Taylor will start at free safety for the first-round playoff game scheduled Saturday at Qwest Field? We know what happened – we won’t ever forget the first NFL player murdered during the course of a season – but we don’t need an intentionally committed clerical error to grasp the reality of a senseless killing.

And so I wonder: Is the inclusion of Taylor on the depth chart a genuine tribute, or the latest nod to a macabre superstition?

It’s a fair question, given the Redskins’ reaction to their season-finale victory against the Cowboys last Sunday. Unable to comprehend how two disparate forces were at work at the same time – Washington needed to win, Dallas didn’t – coach Joe Gibbs and his players chose to dwell on the seemingly predestined margin of a final score (Redskins 27, Cowboys 6) that found the rivals separated by 21 points.

Taylor’s jersey number was 21.

“I don’t believe in coincidences,” Washington linebacker London Fletcher told reporters.

“Our guys, we didn’t think it was by accident that we won by 21,” Gibbs said. “I’ll put it that way.”

And I’ll put it this way: It was a coincidence – a chain of events exclusive to a football game in Landover, Md., which had nothing to do with a fatal gunshot in Miami a month earlier – that enabled the Redskins to win by 21 points.

On an afternoon Dallas showed up at FedEx Field with a dumbed-down, two-tiered game plan (first was to escape without anybody suffering a major injury; second was to escape without anybody suffering a minor injury), the Redskins honored Taylor by playing their best.

The effort was admirable, and didn’t need the inspiration of an autographed Taylor photograph that surfaced on a Redskins fan Web site. Underneath his signature, Taylor wrote, “We Want Dallas.”

The “We Want Dallas” autographed photo was relayed to Washington defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, who showed it on an overhead projector during the team’s Saturday night film session.

Coaches are always looking for an edge, legitimate or otherwise, and if I’m Williams, I’m probably tempted to make the “We Want Dallas” photo part of my film presentation, too.

But if the idea is to honor a teammate who died too soon, then honor him. Stop the nonsense about Taylor’s influence in arranging predestined point spreads, and replace his name on the depth chart for Saturday’s game in Seattle with starter Reed Doughty. He wears No. 37. As we speak, the Seahawks are breaking down the tendencies of No. 37.

Say this about the Redskins: They didn’t invent the concept of the football martyr. That tradition goes all the way back to Notre Dame’s Knute Rockne. At halftime of a game against Army in 1928, Rockne recalled his 1920 deathbed conversation with the great George Gipp. The Fighting Irish ended up winning, 12-6.

We’ll never know how much of that legendary halftime speech was factual, but at least Rockne waited eight years before converting Gipp into a lucky charm. The Redskins didn’t wait eight weeks.

Sean Taylor was murdered in the middle of the night, moments after he was awakened in his bed. However the Redskins wish to commemorate his eventful but too-short life, they should know this:

He wasn’t lucky, and he wasn’t charmed.

John McGrath: 253-597-8742, ext. 6154

john.mcgrath@thenewstribune.com

[aussieskin]

Just goes to show that the average sports fan on the west coast is more interested in beer than the team they say they support. Gotta be a story in there somewhere

[Ghost of]

It's what happens when people have pushed the envelope and never been smacked in the face with consequences.

In a civilized society, these a-holes (the ones who assaulted or screamed in people's ears or the like, nothing wrong with some friendly ribbing) would have had a .45 injected swiftly into their brain case or received a group beating at the hands of some rough but honorable men. Since they likely have never received such, they will continue to act that way and push the boundaries until they do something truly horrific.

Then again, Seattle was the place (before i had even moved there) where a kid was beaten to death by a scumbag and group of others in Pioneer Square and where multiple women were sexually assaulted while police stood by.

Wonder why punks in Seattle think there will be no consequences, hmm?

[Jumbo]

Then again, Seattle was the place (before i had even moved there) where a kid was beaten to death by a scumbag and group of others in Pioneer Square and where multiple women were sexually assaulted while police stood by.

Dissapointed. Weird bandwagon to jump on. Thank Lord Jesus God there are no ugly D.C. area crime/police stories Or Detroit/L.A./Chicago/N.Y./Atl/ etc

Man, It will be nice when the crap-stirring settles.

[fuji869]

I live in the Seattle Area and it crack me up. A few years ago the could not sell out there home games and Seahawk Home Games were blacked out.

I was at the first regular season game at Qwest Field when it was Seahawk Stadium and it was not sold out. I went to the Redskins Game in 02 and it was not sold out. I got some minor razzing but it was no big deal.

Now the Seattle Fans want to be like Oakland and Philly.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Dude, why didn't you seek out security after those a-holes persisted? I would have not rested until i cleared out the area. Taking their fans out of the stands would have helped, too. But sorry about that experience. Seattle will be filled with lava one day.

[Ghost of]

Dissapointed. Weird bandwagon to jump on. Thank Lord Jesus God there are no ugly D.C. area crime/police stories Or Detroit/L.A./Chicago/N.Y./Atl/ etc

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying Seattle is beset by crime, it actually isn't near any of those areas you listed.

I'm saying that large groups of uncontrolled young people have a recent history of not being held accountable there and that when boundaries are pushed and no one pushes back---the thugs or drunken idiots end up ruling whatever area in which they've asserted themselves.

You don't have this at Bumbershoot and Taste of Seattle.

And who said that certain other places don't have similar problems? NYC had some issues with the PR Pride parade, also happened out similar to the Mardi Gras incident in Seattle.

It's a national problem. Scumbags do not meet with bullets, batons or beatdowns and they are emboldened. In fact, I started off with a broader statement but just mentioned Seattle to really find a rational reason why there seems to be a larger problem with Seattle fans at the game than other locations.

But I think specifically, it's no bandwagon to see a connection for downtown Seattle and police treatment of large groups of hooligans in one case and another.

It makes more sense to me to find out enforcement issues and patterns possibly created than trying to blame alcohol or rainy weather, don't you?

[Jumbo]

I see the connection, Nibbs, which is why I hyphenated crime/police. It's cool. Yes, some of the dynamics you're describing in any city deserve scrutiny. As I re-read the post it hits me the same way, whereas your expanded explanation allows a broader picture. Accept my apologies if I offended you.

[Ghost of]

No offense, I just don't want you to think I'm jumping in on some bandwagon. I definitely have defended the area a little bit. I don't buy into the 'coffee-swilling, grunge-listening, rainy, depressed' stereotype.

it's a breathtakingly beautiful place in many ways, though I admit my snobbish side came out when riding the bus. Out back East, I rode the Metro or Philly's trolley with people in suits and school uniforms or nurses or something. In Seattle, on certain routes (the infamous 358 Aurora Express but also some others) are just filled with people I don't want any close contact with and I had to get used to the surprisingly blue collar nature of much of the area.

The accounts I've read from trusted sources (and our own experiences with a few media idiots and internet jerks) just got me wondering what might lead to the experiences on gameday at Qwest and that's what jumped out to me. Simply blaming it on weather or on their bandwagon nature as fans wasn't enough for me. If it IS about simply making them face consequences, then the solution is relatively simple and then we won't have to hear so much yapping about how Western Washington is filled with morons, because it isn't.

Serial killers, however, run rampant ;P

[Jumbo]

I have been a devoted Redskins fan for over 45 years. I am a moderator here, but more importantly I’m an ES member who like so many others has cared a great deal about this board.

I have traveled a lot, but have mainly lived in the Puget Sound area for over 15 years, and spent much time in Seattle including going to football games and associating with football fans.

Now, for me, I know Seattle to be a fun, fine, and beautiful city. Sure like any place it has flaws, but I've been around and it's a great place in most ways as cities go. Same with the people. I don’t really have any deep heartfelt attachment, but being real, standing up for what I believe to be truth, being smart, and being fair are qualities I strive to attain, and that has prompted me to go ahead and post here after the last 72 hours of working ES and taking it all in and still doing my “real job.”

So I read all the stories of ES people who were here, including some fellow moderators, and had a bad experience. I want to choke the fools they describe. Just like I’d like to do with punk posters saying soul-less crap about ST. :mad: I also read a lot of comments coming mainly from folks who don't know the place well or at all, that paint with very broad negative strokes and I take those as the words of people who are upset, saying things like "the city is stupid" and "the fan-base is scum."

I guess, as far as trashing the Seattle region goes, who cares? I mean, I wouldn't take it to heart as the total reality even if some facts are involved. If Seahawk fans go off about NOVA being full of ignorant hicks and inbreeds, or the D.C. area being crime central, "murderville", full of racial turmoil, and favoring cocaine/hooker-using mayors, even if some of it’s factual, I am not going to place a sweeping value judgment on that region or its people based on their report. But that’s just me.

I'm not even .0000001% for excusing or even forgiving anything that happened in the specific and intolerable incidents that actually occurred. But there also seems to be plenty of plain old ignorant hating as a reaction to plain old ignorant hating. That is human, but not very productive, IMO. Now hating on the specific folks doing the hateful things we've read described is something I can get more behind.

So this is a volatile issue for some and I respect these individual experiences, good and bad. But I won't lable tens of thousands of people with negative tags based on bad personal experiences with even a number of members of that group. I will keep my eyes and mind open, however. I was not at the 2005 game or this one, and like I say, I believe the ES people I have come to know through the site. And it may be that Seattle fans are building a new and undesirable reputation. For now, my experience is that Seattle is a fine place and the vast majority of the fans I have had many interactions with over many years have been decent.

To me, this whole "Seattle message board" thing became kind of lame at best, and a kind of unhealthy self-indulgence at worse, not long after our first understandable reactions to those sick remarks made by a bunch of cretins. Since then there have been a number of threads and countless posts on it all week long.

Now I want talk about OUR board for a minute.

Here's a post I made in the game thread even before we took the lead:

"Really—win or lose--so many of you guys are chest-thumping world beaters all week long talking the super-size smack and ****ting on other teams and places and then you fold like a bunch of cheap tents at the first signs of struggle and start crapping all over the same Redskins you were lionizing just a few hours ago. Intensely lame. I know you’ll be pissed at me for that, but I can deal with it."

The thing is, I see enough "hate" from Redskins fans against Redskins every week I sit in a game thread than I ever need to read on any rival’s board. Go read last weeks posts for the game, or any game. I’m not talking about “venting” as defined by a normal standard and many of you know what I'm saying.

So after all our (perfectly normal) trash talking, dismissing the seasquawks ability, and a fair amount of fighting hate and stupidity with hate and stupidity all week before the game, how long should we follow our loss (from simply being out-competed)with continuing talking about "the problem with Seattle fans?”

I could give a **** about what’s wrong with them, but I do give a **** about our tone here, so please bear with me for this.

Several non-trolling Seattle fans PM'ed, thanking ES for having the high quality board we have even though they got their share of heat. ES is fortunate that we have a large number of posters here who look for a higher level of conversation here than is common on message boards, and that's the tone ES has always hoped to set as far as I know. We should be happy about that and, IMO, not try to dilute it, but build on it.

So **** Seattle message boards. :cool:

If people want to take on a message board, I suggest we take on ours. Make it better.

Here are some of my (admittedly) biased ideas: Don’t substitute simple hate for honest critique. Don’t call abusive trashing of Redskins, "venting.” Don’t post constant negativity while avoiding noting any positives and call it being a “realist.” Don’t mistake being unwilling to stick your head in the sand, legitimately criticizing coaching or players, or being tired of excuses for “not supporting the team” or not being a “real fan.” Don’t “love” the team all week and then gut them viciously with every play that doesn’t turn out perfect on game day (next year ). Do more joking around . Point these things out when you see them. Fight them. Those are just a few suggestions. You guys can come up with a lot more.

Sorry to go on so long. I’m sure I pissed some people off, but in this case it wasn’t intended.

[AceSkinsFan]

Sad and completely uncalled for. Unfortunately these type of "fans" make even worse human beings. I suspect these morons ruin pretty much everything wherever they go.

[Mark The Homer]

Nice post, Jumbo.

I'd just like to briefly point out, again, that this was a PLAYOFF game. Emotions run high. And in that particular lot, which is a privately owned lot with no direct connection to team or the league (where I think most of the classless incidents mentioned in this thread took place), and the only lot that "allows" alcohol, the fans have to arrive very, very early to get a spot. So they're already liquored up by mid-morning. Yes, the Seahawks were aggressive and classless.

But what I saw was about what I expected, and it won't keep me from going back.

And btw, that HDL (seahawks) guy said the lot is supposed to be developed next year.

[quettefan]

I saw a packer fan at SEA-TAC airport when I was flying out and told him I hope they crush the seahawks. I also told him about the seahawk fans and their behaviour. He assured me if I was in Green Bay that would never have happened.

Here's to Green Bay laying waste to the *******s:cheers:

Wow, doesn't sound like Seattle will ever get any $$ from me for a visit to a SeaChickens game :mad:

I had the good fortune to hit a Packers game at Lambeau in December one year (-35 with the wind-chill factor!). GB was playing the Viking and 15 minutes before the game it seemed that almost the entire stadium started chanting "Bears Suck" (did I mention they were playing the Vikings that day?). That was about the extent of disrespect that the Packers fans showed the Vikings fans (at least, in my end-zone section which had the majority of the drunks)

Packers fans rock, Packers rock (hope they roll on the Chickens this weekend!)

Go Redskins -- SuperBowl next year!!!

[PCS]

Jumbo, an eloquent post to say the least. And I think we should leave it at that. I think right about now, it's time to put things behind us and move on.

Note: I would love to travel to Seattle in a non game way. Just to see the city. Betting that would be nice.