Campbell's playcalling was handcuffed (reported on Fox5)

[chow184]

I shouldn't even comment...but apparently you just don't get it. You must be blind it you really see a ball knocked out of Collins hand from his blindside as a fumble.

note the heavy overtone of sarcasm in my post

I was mocking the people that harp on JC about being fumble prone.

I still want todd collins starting,but I support JC.

[Playoffsorbust2005]

Either way the point is moot...Todd Collins will be gone next year and Jason Campbell is our starter...sorry to **** in your cereal

I think the skins would be dumb not to re-sign Collins to a 3 year deal. Shawn Springs needs to be re-signed too. That goes for any unrestricted FA. We need to keep this chemistry together if we want to continue to succeed. :dallasuck :2cents: :wewantd:

[chow184]

People were identifying problems with Campbell after the first couple of games. The response was that at least they were winning and he was managing the game. Then, his level of play caught up with him and we started losing games we could have won. The number of long accurate passes he threw in 12 games could be count on one hand. Sure, a few passes were dropped, but many other circus catches on poorly thrown balls helped him also. Turnovers (not just fumbles) is one of the issues. Not just fumbles. Campbell has been part of 19 (nineteen) turnovers in 11.5 games. Collins has been part of 2 (two) turnovers in 3.5 games. Campbell is the 20th rated QB in the league. Collins would be #2. I realize its only been 4 games for him so this should be discounted, but it is worthy of note.

We could go on and on, but lets make it simple. Collins has won 4 in a row. Along the way, he has made TD passes to wide receivers and not turned over the ball.

To say that is no better than what campbell would have done at this stage of his career is hard to understand.

To not recognize that the timely injury to Campbell and the subsequent play of Collins was not a major factor in the Skins making the playoffs is even harder to understand.

I agree that Collins has been a big lift to the offense,but JC was misrepresented in his showing. the entire O-line is playing better,and clinton is running better. and as said by players the offense isn't handcuffed with collins playing. granted campbell should make plays given whatever the circumstances. I simply believe you can't compare the two.

O-line is playing well for collins

O-line played for crap for campbell(I'd put this on playcalling to,easier to attack a conservative offense)

ground game for TC is playing fairly well

ground game for jason campbell....LAWL

and the playcalling, when you attack a defense in the ways that we are NOW it puts pressure on them(good for us).meaning your going to see less pressure up front,and when they do try and bring pressure, YOUR ATTACKING and can throw the ball downfield. with JC all we tried to throw were short dinky passes and long ones, resulting in teams sitting on everything. they bring pressure and JC has no where to go with the ball. with TC, and the O-lines playing like a real O-line. Since the playcalls are better when teams bring pressure we're actually running intermediate routes with TC in the game. teams sat on the short stuff so quick pressure eliminates them and the long ball. with collins were running intermediate routes ALOT more and he's hitting them.

theres a better risk of interception throwing over the middle because of all the traffic,that's the only logical conclusion to why gibbs held out of JC's gameplan. looking back at JC's interceptions I can count 5 where the ball was tipped for the int or it was poor effort by the WR resulting in the pick.

leaving just 6 really bad decisions. I don't think anyone would complain about 6 bonehead interceptions in 13 games.and throw in a whole bunch of blindside hit/fumbles.

todd collins went 2/2 on the blindside fumble yesterday, so I guess he needs to work on his ball security to... :doh: I don't think people here realize how difficult it is to hang on the football when someone is blindsiding you.

given the circumstances I'd say jason campbell gave good effort in a crappy situation,but he'd get an incomplete grade from me.

collins gets in there and they up the ante on playcalling w/ a guy who's been in the sceme for a decade,O-line is playing alot better,ditto for ground game.

[ArmchairRedskin]

It really doesn't matter what anyone on this board or any fan thinks...all that matters is what Snyder and gibbs think, and they have to much invested in Jason to sit a first round QB next year...like it or not he is our starting QB when healthy

Jason has more upside and is 10 + years younger than TC, TC has his 15 minutes and he will be gone next season

Why would he be gone? Its obvious he's not over the hill and he knows this system. Brunell will be gone, thats a given.

There is nothing wrong with giving both TC and JC a fair, open competition next year. If TC performs better, then by all means, put him in. We are in the business of winning games. TC winning games is more important and better business for our team than coddling a first rounder by putting him just because he was a first rounder.

[chow184]

Why would he be gone? Its obvious he's not over the hill and he knows this system. Brunell will be gone, thats a given.

There is nothing wrong with giving both TC and JC a fair, open competition next year. If TC performs better, then by all means, put him in. We are in the business of winning games. TC winning games is more important and better business for our team than coddling a first rounder by putting him just because he was a first rounder.

TC is a free agent after this season and is raking all the chips in now and will probably want to cash in in FA.

[mistertim]

Why would he be gone? Its obvious he's not over the hill and he knows this system. Brunell will be gone, thats a given.

There is nothing wrong with giving both TC and JC a fair, open competition next year. If TC performs better, then by all means, put him in. We are in the business of winning games. TC winning games is more important and better business for our team than coddling a first rounder by putting him just because he was a first rounder.

I doubt Collins will be gone next year, but I also don't think he gets the nod to start unless he single handedly wins the SB for us. Despite what some people are saying, unless a team is incredibly desperate, Collins isn't going to be picked up to start anywhere else. He will be 37 next year and yes I have heard the Jeff Garcia references, but let's also remember that Garcia has been to 3 Pro Bowls and has been successful wherever he has gone. Despite his good play for 4 games, Collins is too much of an unknown for a team to want him as anything other than a backup (or to pick up for relatively cheap). Is this year a fluke? Is it just the fact that he knows the system so well? Is he just that good? I'm guessing Collins stays with the Skins for 1 more year and then retires, but he would certainly be a good QB coach in Saunders system.

[redman]

gimme a break....you have no idea what is going through his mind and his temperment in the huddle...so why say stupid...excuse me....uninformed things...like this?

prediction: if the Skins pass on JC for next season they will be set back for another 2-3 years. what we are seeing right now is quite unusual. in every interview I saw with players yesterday not one ended "TC has been the difference". To a man they all said they are playing for ST, have taken it upon themselves to play as he would have - with total committment and accountability. TC is playing well...riding a wave. credit where credit is due. but he is making mistakes as well with luck and momentum bailing him out.

we should enjoy what is happening in front of us...but not mistake it for the future.

The truth as usual lies somewhere in the middle. You're ignoring comments from people like Moss about how Saunders has "opened the playbook up" with Collins in there.

In addition, what we haven't seen is a critical error by Collins that we saw repeatedly over his last few games with Campbell.

Nobody is confused about how the future of this franchise rests with, but the fact is that Collins has in fact been making plays and avoiding mistakes, and is therefore a huge contributor to this team's success right now.

[chow184]

I doubt Collins will be gone next year, but I also don't think he gets the nod to start unless he single handedly wins the SB for us. Despite what some people are saying, unless a team is incredibly desperate, Collins isn't going to be picked up to start anywhere else. He will be 37 next year and yes I have heard the Jeff Garcia references, but let's also remember that Garcia has been to 3 Pro Bowls and has been successful wherever he has gone. Despite his good play for 4 games, Collins is too much of an unknown for a team to want him as anything other than a backup. Is this year a fluke? Is it just the fact that he knows the system so well? Is he just that good? I'm guessing Collins stays with the Skins for 1 more year and then retires, but he would certainly be a good QB coach in Saunders system.

he's a FA after the season

it's up to collins if he wants to stay here or not,there are teams like the bears who might want a QB high in the draft and tell collins he can start while here he'd get competition at best.

[C26 Run]

That was pretty obvious through out the whole season. The difference in the playbook for Collins then for Campbell is night and day. You don't need this report for that news. :helmet:

[ArmchairRedskin]

TC is a free agent after this season and is raking all the chips in now and will probably want to cash in in FA.

I doubt many teams will be knocking on his door. He's old and has limited starting experience. I think he knows it would be in his best interest to re-sign with us.

[mistertim]

he's a FA after the season

it's up to collins if he wants to stay here or not,there are teams like the bears who might want a QB high in the draft and tell collins he can start while here he'd get competition at best.

It's possible. Perhaps the Bears draft a QB high in the 1st, grab Collins and give him a chance to start while the rookie learns. However, he isn't going to be offered much money. As I said he is a completely unknown commodity. He has been with Saunders for 7 years and knows the system backwards and forwards which I'm sure is part of his success. I'm not saying he is a bad QB, but other teams have no clue if he can come in and pick up a new system and do well since he hardly has any record to go on. So he may get a lukewarm offer or two, but the Skins' offer would probably be about the same and I'm thinking that Collins would probably rather stick with what he knows and with Saunders for his last year or so.

[voicekiller]

I think the skins would be dumb not to re-sign Collins to a 3 year deal. Shawn Springs needs to be re-signed too. That goes for any unrestricted FA. We need to keep this chemistry together if we want to continue to succeed. :dallasuck :2cents: :wewantd:

Why would you sign a 37 year old QB to a 3 year deal? So he and Vinny Testiverde can compete for the AARP checks? Someone will sign him to a 1 maybe even 2 year deal, but Dan Snyder isn't that dumb to sign a 37 year old QB...enjoy Todd and this ride while you can because he won't be here next year...

[disappointedskins]

Maybe if Campbell would stop fumbling, throwing interceptions, and missing wide open receivers, the coaches would have more faith in him.

word. How are they gonna open up the game plan with him if he still throws ints on short easy passes.

[bertoskins]

just let campbell continue to grow and master the offense and well see the results just like what collins is doing, my concern though is protecting the football and avoiding fumbles

[Fetus]

campbell was not allowed to open up the playbook at first they just barley started opening it when he got hurt....

[Hail_Skinz]

IMO it really seemed that the playcalling was opened up for JC until we got to the 20 yard line. Once we got into the red zone...it seemed that we immediately went conservative. The result was a lot of FGs.

[CustomApparelDirect]

What is temperment and committment? I assume you meant temperament and commitment. I'll ask you fansince62...you tell me what you see when you look at Campbell's field presence. Do you see any emotion whatsoever? Are we to assume that when he kneels down in the huddle he's turned from Jason Jekyll to Jason Hyde? With your thinking, I guess so.

I'm glad the team isn't saying any one player is making a difference. That's a very good thing. That means they're playing as a team....I don't care why.

I like how you say about Collins "credit where credit is due. but he is making mistakes as well with luck and momentum bailing him out". Lets talk about that for a second with the numbers.

Campbell: QB Rating 77.6; 12 TD's; 11 interceptions; 13 fumbles (8 lost); *21 sacks over 13 games.

Collins: QB Rating 106.4; 5 TD's; 0 interception; 4 fumbles (2 lost); 7 sacks over 4 games.

Ummm.... I don't know what you're using for a basis for the justification that Collins is making mistakes. At least he isn't making ones like Campbell made in the Tampa Bay and Dallas games....both of which cost us a chance at a win. At least we don't have to rely on him turning the ball over at least 1.3 times a game and getting sacked almost 2 times a game. (*The number of times sacked is an indication of exactly why Campbell looks confused....it's because he is.)

Campbell needs another year at least with Saunders offense before he takes the field again in my opinion.

That's the best "break" I can give you.

Let me play "Devil's Advocate" - even further - with my "Projections": :2cents:

Campbell: QB Rating 77.6; 12 TD's; 11 interceptions; 13 fumbles (8 lost); *21 sacks over 13 games.

Collins: QB Rating 106.4; 16.25 TD's; 0 interceptions; 13 fumbles (6.5 lost); *22.75 sacks over 13 games.

Using YOUR "Statistical Data/Analysis", one may only "Project/Surmise" that both QB's "Statistics" would be "NEARLY Identical" -

with the GLARING Exception(s) being as regards: (a.) QB Rating; and, (b.) Interceptions; :2cents:

which would (LOGICALLY) Lead One to attribute: (1.) Collins' Knowledge & Understanding of both Saunders' Offense & NFL Defenses - combined with (2.) Collins' TRUST in his WR's/TE's/RB's Pass-Route-Running Capabilities [i.e. (for both factors): Collins' NFL-Veteran Savvy & Experience]... :applause:

as the DETERMINING FACTORS in The REDSKINS'Newfound/Long-Overdue OFFENSIVE SUCCESS"!?! :2cents:

Don't You Think so, as well?!? :doh:

In closing, with the hereon premises rendered and considered:

Aren't We ALL ("TRUE REDSKINS FANS" - at least) "GLAD as HECK" that The GREAT ONE (GOD) has Blessed OUR TEAM with BOTH "TC" & "JC"?!? :applause::2cents:

HAIL!!! :applause::2cents:

[SearchHorizon]

I doubt Collins will be gone next year, but I also don't think he gets the nod to start unless he single handedly wins the SB for us. Despite what some people are saying, unless a team is incredibly desperate, Collins isn't going to be picked up to start anywhere else. He will be 37 next year and yes I have heard the Jeff Garcia references, but let's also remember that Garcia has been to 3 Pro Bowls and has been successful wherever he has gone. Despite his good play for 4 games, Collins is too much of an unknown for a team to want him as anything other than a backup (or to pick up for relatively cheap). Is this year a fluke? Is it just the fact that he knows the system so well? Is he just that good? I'm guessing Collins stays with the Skins for 1 more year and then retires, but he would certainly be a good QB coach in Saunders system.

If Collins does well, it is possible (though remote) we end up trading JASON.

The scenario next year can go like:

(0) we beat Dallas and/or Packers

(1) preseason competition between Collins and Campbell

(2) Collins wins out

(3) JC expresses his displeasure

(4) request for a trade

[Redskins4ever]

If Collins does well, it is possible (though remote) we end up trading JASON.

The scenario next year can go like:

(0) we beat Dallas and/or Packers

(1) preseason competition between Collins and Campbell

(2) Collins wins out

(3) JC expresses his displeasure

(4) request for a trade

Why would we trade Jason? We gave up a lot to get him. Overall as a starter, he's played well and he's getting better. Jason doesn't strike me as the type that would get upset if he's not starting when he already knows he's our future QB. Collins is 36-37 years old which means he won't be playing but for another few years at best. Jason Campbell is the Redskins future.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Let me play "Devil's Advocate" - even further - with my "Projections": :2cents:

Campbell: QB Rating 77.6; 12 TD's; 11 interceptions; 13 fumbles (8 lost); *21 sacks over 13 games.

Collins: QB Rating 106.4; 16.25 TD's; 0 interceptions; 13 fumbles (6.5 lost); *22.75 sacks over 13 games.

Using YOUR "Statistical Data/Analysis", one may only "Project/Surmise" that both QB's "Statistics" would be "NEARLY Identical" -

with the GLARING Exception(s) being as regards: (a.) QB Rating; and, (b.) Interceptions; :2cents:

which would (LOGICALLY) Lead One to attribute: (1.) Collins' Knowledge & Understanding of both Saunders' Offense & NFL Defenses - combined with (2.) Collins' TRUST in his WR's/TE's/RB's Pass-Route-Running Capabilities [i.e. (for both factors): Collins' NFL-Veteran Savvy & Experience]... :applause:

as the DETERMINING FACTORS in The REDSKINS'Newfound/Long-Overdue OFFENSIVE SUCCESS"!?! :2cents:

Don't You Think so, as well?!? :doh:

In closing, with the hereon premises rendered and considered:

Aren't We ALL ("TRUE REDSKINS FANS" - at least) "GLAD as HECK" that The GREAT ONE (GOD) has Blessed OUR TEAM with BOTH "TC" & "JC"?!? :applause::2cents:

HAIL!!! :applause::2cents:

While I don't disagree with the reasoning in this post, I have to say it's one of the more obnoxious ones I've seen. All the bolding and italicizing coupled with the sarcasm and condensation is really hard to bear.

[RocketCitySkins]

While I don't disagree with the reasoning in this post, I have to say it's one of the more obnoxious ones I've seen. All the bolding and italicizing coupled with the sarcasm and condensation is really hard to bear.

And the free advertising for a gambling site. :doh:

[mistertim]

If Collins does well, it is possible (though remote) we end up trading JASON.

The scenario next year can go like:

(0) we beat Dallas and/or Packers

(1) preseason competition between Collins and Campbell

(2) Collins wins out

(3) JC expresses his displeasure

(4) request for a trade

Uh ok. And what then? Sign Leftwich? Use our mid-late 1st round pick on a QB (all of the high quality QBs this year will be top 15 picks, easy...there are so many teams who need a QB)? Do we trade away draft picks to move up to a top 10 pick? You all complain about what we gave up for Jason but trading up that high will cost some picks and a rather large contract.

Collins has a maybe one full year of play left. So what do we do once he peters out and just doesn't have the physical tools anymore due to age? Do we THEN draft a QB and expect him to come in and learn a very complex system and immediately excel? This whole mentality of not developing young talent and going for the quick fix is something people have been whining about for years now, and with good reason. Now that we have a young QB with lots of potential people want to throw him under the bus for a guy who will be 37 years old next year. I think Collins should finish out this year, but unless JC just completely stinks up the joint and Collins looks amazing in training camp I don't see how it is smart from a long term perspective to sit Jason.

[fansince62]

Why would we trade Jason? We gave up a lot to get him. Overall as a starter, he's played well and he's getting better. Jason doesn't strike me as the type that would get upset if he's not starting when he already knows he's our future QB. Collins is 36-37 years old which means he won't be playing but for another few years at best. Jason Campbell is the Redskins future.

then again.....Jason may reason

- I was the starter

- I was progressing...in fact..before being injured I was achievinig multiple 200/300 yard games

- sitting another season, after not playing one season yet, does ZERO, NADA, ZIP for my progess as a QB

I WANT OUT!

you realize, of course, that the first bad game TC has...the boo birds will be out in full force highlighting every mistake and exposed weakness. sooooo...no matter how this goes...the debating will be endless until one of them is off the roster.

[SearchHorizon]

you realize, of course, that the first bad game TC has...the boo birds will be out in full force highlighting every mistake and exposed weakness.

When you talk about "weakness," you are only accounting for physical prowess.

To play the QB position well, I believe the QB has be able to think quickly.

This ability to process information quickly may not ber something that can be taught -- so far it is not clear if JC has it or not. What is clear is that TC has it (though not as physically gifted as TC).

[RYokum]

While I don't disagree with the reasoning in this post, I have to say it's one of the more obnoxious ones I've seen. All the bolding and italicizing coupled with the sarcasm and condensation is really hard to bear.

I agree 100%. Even though that post was responding to me, I had to stop reading it because it made my eyes bleed.