Is this wrong?

[Cyber Pimp]

And one of the reasons it was chosen to take place in December was that people were already off of work for Saturnalia. So they could celebrate without worrying about having to work.

Its highly unlikely that shepherds were watching their flocks by night in the dead of winter.:2cents:

Then why do we celebrate xmas. If this is true the Jesus wasnt born on Dec. 25.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I don't think that is analogous.

Nobody was singled out. The cupcakes were just cupcakes. One for each kid.

How is that not analogous?

A kid brings food, for everyone, and one or two kids don't eat it because they are not jewish. And so they feel different, or weird, or insecure about something they shouldn't so feel.

That's obviously what the teacher was trying to avoid. Having some kid, who wasn't christian, feel embarassed or confused about whether or not he could eat the cupcakes.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Then why do we celebrate xmas. If this is true the Jesus wasnt born on Dec. 25.

Jesus probably wasn't born on Dec. 25... no one knows for sure when he was born, but its likely some time in April, which is when censuses were generally held.

[rincewind]

How is that not analogous?

A kid brings food, for everyone, and one or two kids don't eat it because they are not jewish. And so they feel different, or weird, or insecure about something they shouldn't so feel.

That's obviously what the teacher was trying to avoid. Having some kid, who wasn't christian, feel embarassed or confused about whether or not he could eat the cupcakes.

Think about the poor Jehovah's Witness kids - they don't even get to celebrate their own birthday let alone their savior's.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Think about the poor Jehovah's Witness kids - they don't even get to celebrate their own birthday let alone their savior's.

True.

Seriously though, taking my analogy to the next level: say you are the teacher and some little boy or girl starts crying because he's confused or scared about eating these cupcakes. Then you, the teacher, tell him its ok everyone can eat them.... THEN, the parents of that child come back all pissed off because now their kid thinks Santa is way cooler than Hannukah Harry and the parents just had to explain to that kid that Santa isn't real and the teacher lied. And now that little boy is going around to all the Christian kids and telling them all that the teacher is a liar and Santa is a load of crap.

Or you could just nip it in the bud and say, thanks but no thanks.

[Cyber Pimp]

Think about the poor Jehovah's Witness kids - they don't even get to celebrate their own birthday let alone their savior's.

Nobody in the bible celebrated their birthday. So in my eyes JW's are sticking to the bible. If Jesus was born on Dec. 25 and its christmas. He would have been partying extra hard.

[PleaseBlitz]

The mom SHOULD have spent the extra few hours of her time and made cupcakes with trees, stockings, menorahs, dreidels, the Star of David, turbans, that little crescent moon with star thingy, an endless knot, a yin-yang, the Jesus fish, a pentagram, the FSM etc.

Then EVERYONE would have something to ****ing complain about. :laugh:

[Jumbo]

But isn't the teacher a hero for striking a blow against childhood obesity?

[Tulane Skins Fan]

But isn't the teacher a hero for striking a blow against childhood obesity?

True that as well... maybe she didn't want 30 sugar-cracked-out kids running around and so she just came up with first amendment as an excuse.

[PleaseBlitz]

How is that not analogous?

A kid brings food, for everyone, and one or two kids don't eat it because they are not jewish. And so they feel different, or weird, or insecure about something they shouldn't so feel.

That's obviously what the teacher was trying to avoid. Having some kid, who wasn't christian, feel embarassed or confused about whether or not he could eat the cupcakes.

A jewish kid wouldnt eat a cupcake with a picture of a tree on it? Why not? Im not christian and i would decimate that cupcake.

[PleaseBlitz]

But isn't the teacher a hero for striking a blow against childhood obesity?

Now you are just picking a fight with the Vegans Jumbo. Those cupcakes had milk and eggs in them. :cuss:

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Nobody in the bible celebrated their birthday. So in my eyes JW's are sticking to the bible. If Jesus was born on Dec. 25 and its christmas. He would have been partying extra hard.

Peter: Is that really the blood of Christ?

Priest: Yes.

Peter: Whoa! That guy must have been wasted 24/7!

[Zguy28]

A jewish kid wouldnt eat a cupcake with a picture of a tree on it? Why not? Im not christian and i would decimate that cupcake.

That's what I was wondering and why I said his analogy wasn't really comparable.

Tulane,

Do you think the kids or their parents would've refused the cupcakes because of evergreens and stockings on them?

[ZoEd]

It's a green tree and a stocking, not a swastika or the "N" word. People need to lighten up. Non Christians celebrate Christmas because of the gift giving and the festiveness of it all. It's not like you convert to christianity and declare christ your saviour by eating the damn cupcake.

Ba humbug to the damn PC world, they can blow it out their asses. Merry CHRISTmas.

Sorry, I'm so sick of being sensitive. Especially since everyone wants to be treated equally but without treating other people in the same manner. If I've got to have your religion or lack of rammed down my throat then by God eat a Christmas cupcake and shutup.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

That's what I was wondering and why I said his analogy wasn't really comparable.

Tulane,

Do you think the kids or their parents would've refused the cupcakes because of evergreens and stockings on them?

C'mon...

Here's my point. A Jewish, or really any kid not practicing Christianity, is going to associate a Christmas tree with the Christian religion and Christmas. Truthfully, the tree is not really a religious symbol in the sense that it evokes nothing about the faith, BUT it is definitely a symbol of christianity.

A non-christian kid is certainly going to look at that cupcake and wonder if he's turning his back on his own religion by participating in some sort of christian holiday.

That's all I'm saying.

And like I said, I'm on record saying I don't think it legally violates separation of church and state, so either way I wouldnt blame the teacher for giving em out or not.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

That's what I was wondering and why I said his analogy wasn't really comparable.

Tulane,

Do you think the kids or their parents would've refused the cupcakes because of evergreens and stockings on them?

Not trying to label you a christian, but assuming you are:

How would you feel if you kid came home from school, explained to you that today was Yom Kippur, a Jewish holiday, but he could not participate because he wasn't Jewish. And his Jewish friends all told him he was missing out. And now your kid wants to be Jewish so he fits in.

Obviously, even non-christians realize at a certain age that its ok to eat a cupcake with a tree on it... or even Jesus on it, I guess. But these are kids in school, which is supposed to be a place where each of them can feel comfortable.

[techboy]

Actually, it's my understanding that these days teachers are refusing all cupcakes, for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to:

allergies, sugar rushes, childhood obesity, health concerns, etc.

I find it at least plausible that there was some kind of misunderstanding. I often wonder how any elementary school teacher can maintain a coherent conversation after the days they put in.

[Zguy28]

Actually, it's my understanding that these days teachers are refusing all cupcakes, for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to:

allergies, sugar rushes, childhood obesity, health concerns, etc.

I find it at least plausible that there was some kind of misunderstanding. I often wonder how any elementary school teacher can maintain a coherent conversation after the days they put in.

Well, the teach did tell her specifically it was because of SOCAS.

But, you make a good point. I don't know if it was planned for her to bring them in or not.

[techboy]

Not trying to label you a christian, but assuming you are:

How would you feel if you kid came home from school, explained to you that today was Yom Kippur, a Jewish holiday, but he could not participate because he wasn't Jewish. And his Jewish friends all told him he was missing out. And now your kid wants to be Jewish so he fits in.

Obviously, even non-christians realize at a certain age that its ok to eat a cupcake with a tree on it... or even Jesus on it, I guess. But these are kids in school, which is supposed to be a place where each of them can feel comfortable.

Your analogy is flawed. In one example, you have a kid confused and wondering whether he is allowed to eat it, because it's "Christian". In this example, you have outside individuals telling the child he can't participate.

There is a big difference between voluntary withdrawl from an activity (Jehovah's Witnesses choosing not to recite the Pledge), and forced exclusion (foreign nationals being told they can't, for example).

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Your analogy is flawed. In one example, you have a kid confused and wondering whether he is allowed to eat it, because it's "Christian". In this example, you have outside individuals telling the child he can't participate.

There is a big difference between voluntary withdrawl from an activity (Jehovah's Witnesses choosing not to recite the Pledge), and forced exclusion (foreign nationals being told they can't, for example).

Ok, your kid doesn't think he can participate b/c he's not jewish and everything the same ensues: he's embarassed, etc.

I don't really see the difference, but there... now the analogy is EXACTLY the same.

EDIT: Wait a second, i just went back and looked at my original post and I said the boy didnt want to participate because he wasn't Jewish and THEN his friends told him how great it was to be Jewish.

So the analogy was spot on.

[Zguy28]

Not trying to label you a christian, but assuming you are:

How would you feel if you kid came home from school, explained to you that today was Yom Kippur, a Jewish holiday, but he could not participate because he wasn't Jewish. And his Jewish friends all told him he was missing out. And now your kid wants to be Jewish so he fits in.

Obviously, even non-christians realize at a certain age that its ok to eat a cupcake with a tree on it... or even Jesus on it, I guess. But these are kids in school, which is supposed to be a place where each of them can feel comfortable.

That's not a good example. Don't you fast on Yom Kippur?

Anyway, I know what your saying, and I don't want to exclude, but I don't see how that applies here.

Its not like she brought in ham sandwiches.That would be different.:2cents:

[helptheSKINS]

That's what I was wondering and why I said his analogy wasn't really comparable.

Tulane,

Do you think the kids or their parents would've refused the cupcakes because of evergreens and stockings on them?

Highly doubtful.

The fact is that there are some people that will complain about anything. We've had people with other beliefs/religions in this country since it's inception. Kids have been bringing the same cupcakes to their classmates for years. It's a pathetic attempt by the complainers/PC crowd to make themselves feel special. Seems like we have more and more of these people lately. Maybe their moms should have hugged them more. What are these kids going to do when they get out in the real world and realize there are people that have different beliefs then them. I'm sure they will wish while in school they had the opportunity to learn about it. The PC crowd is pathetic. Give everyone a hug and shield them from reality for as long as possible.

[techboy]

Ok, your kid doesn't think he can participate b/c he's not jewish and everything the same ensues: he's embarassed, etc.

I don't really see the difference, but there... now the analogy is EXACTLY the same.

If parents want their children not to participate in an activity, they can train them as such, as the Jehovah's Witnesses do. If a parent never says "You're Jewish, so don't eat a cupcake with a Christmas tree on it", I find it highly unlikely that any child would come to that conclusion on his or her own. I have never seen such a thing in all my years in school as both student or teacher.

Your scenario is implausible, at best. If the teacher really did ban the cupcakes because of religious symbology, it wasn't the kids she was worried about.

It was the parents.

If such an unlikely scenario were to occurr to my child, however, no I would not be upset, because it would ultimately be a failing on my part, in that I did appropriately instruct on what's okay and not. There shouldn't be any confusion.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Highly doubtful.

The fact is that there are some people that will complain about anything. We've had people with other beliefs/religions in this country since it's inception. Kids have been bringing the same cupcakes to their classmates for years. It's a pathetic attempt by the complainers/PC crowd to make themselves feel special. Seems like we have more and more of these people lately. Maybe their moms should have hugged them more. What are these kids going to do when they get out in the real world and realize there are people that have different beliefs then them. I'm sure they will wish while in school they had the opportunity to learn about it. The PC crowd is pathetic. Give everyone a hug and shield them from reality for as long as possible.

At the same time, all the teacher did was say, "why don't you take the cupcakes home and eat them with your family," and some people think its "wrong," for her to have done so.

Personally, I don't care if the kids ate the cupcakes or the matza or not, but I'm not gonna get on a teacher's case for trying to prevent some parents for getting all into a tizzy about religion.

[Zguy28]

At the same time, all the teacher did was say, "why don't you take the cupcakes home and eat them with your family," and some people think its "wrong," for her to have done so.

Personally, I don't care if the kids ate the cupcakes or the matza or not, but I'm not gonna get on a teacher's case for trying to prevent some parents for getting all into a tizzy about religion.

ANd you know, when it came up the other night at the family gathering, all of the evangelicals in my family (a lot) blew fuses. Except me.

I love stirring them up. You should have seen me getting them rowled up over Global Warming.