Lets get down to business: How do we fix the Washington Redskins?

[SkinsHokieFan]

When you look at the body of work of the Washington Redskins over the past few years (and taking away the game with the Bills, I won't count it per this discussion) it is clear this organization to the core is fundamentally flawed, no matter how much we really hoped it would work out for Gibbs and the way he wanted to do things

I am one who has probably held on the longest to the Gibbs will get this done, his way, for too long. Getting it done his way meaning a conservative attack, trading draft picks, bringing in veterans and being the highest spending team on players and coaches

Clearly that does not work. Clearly that does not get us to the level of what the Patriots are now, which is what the expectation was when Gibbs came back. Was it maybe an unrealistic expectation? Yes. However it was Joe Gibbs, and Joe Gibbs up until 2004= championships, in not only the NFL but in NASCAR, a sport he conquered with no prior expierence

So how does this get fixed? How do we slowly get to the level of play of where the Patriots are in the next 3-5 years

Well here are a few ideas I have thrown around in my head, some of which are probably absurd, some of which are not. But if suddenly I became owner of the Washington Redskins tomorrow, this is what I would do

1) Clean out the front office. Goodbye Vinnie C. And as good as Eric Shaffer is, goodbye. Goodbye Louis Riddick. I would keep Scott Campbell though, unless the new regime said goodbye to him

2) Lure Ozzie Newsome to become President of the football operations. Place him in an executive position, and give him an ownership stake. What he has done with the personnel in Baltimore in terms of being able to draft quality players despite being in cap hell is phenomenal. I do not blame him one bit for the shortcomings of Brian Billick and his obsession with some awful QB's. You give that team a legit QB and they may have multiple Superbowls wins this decade

3) Have Ozzie hire a young GM. My pick is Bobby DePaul who is in the Bears front office. The Bears also have done an excellent job of quickly building that team, and this year have been hit with injuries, bad QB play and the curse of losing the Superbowl. However he has been part of a FO that quickly built that team into an NFC Champion

4) I would strongly urge them to give Jerry Gray a chance. He has been on a long list of both college and NFL jobs, has been a d-coordinator, played in the NFL and could become the next Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy. For the life of me I cannot find the CNNSI.com article which spoke of him having that "presence" and that he will be a head coach either in college or the pros very soon. He is young (only 45) and has an energy which has been described as contagious.

5) Along with that I would keep Al Saunders. The last thing I would want is Jason Campbell to have to learn another offense and waste the investment of the last 20 games

6) Build a scouting empire, led by Scott Campbell. If Dan Snyder was simply to take the signing bonus he paid to Brandon Lloyd and use that 10 million to hire the most and the best scouts in the NFL, the team would never have to spend 10 million on an FA again

7) Along with that, become very stingy in the offseason. For a few reasons.

A) The Redskins are forced to pay a premium for talent because of their reputation. It is fairly obvious when you see how much higher the Redskins payroll is then any other team (New England is up there as well, but they win)

You end up having to wait till the last minute to re-sign your own guys, again costing you money

C) You lack any flexibility to build depth. Pretty obvious, this board has discussed it ad naseum

Now this is just a start, and the really about all one can do as an owner. However I simply do not think the current way the team is built will be successful, and it took me a very long time to realize that. Kudos to you who figured it out before

[ted@GT]

Good points. I would definitely not be displeased if this happened. Right now I think any change in management and team strategy would be helpful- what we are doing right now obviously has some flaws that need to be fixed.

[#98QBKiller]

Draft nearly all OL and DL in April and reinforce the middle of the field again.

[skinfan2k]

Why get rid of Schaffer who does a excellent job as our capologist? and Riddick?

Its not their fault that wash gives up draft picks and signs players in FA?

[LD0506]

Nice, it's obvious you put some thought into this and it leads to more postive discussions.

I definitely think you put your finger squarely on one major need- scouting! Have DS do for that what he is willing to do with coaches, spend the $$ to get THE best, all of them. This is a place to be greedy.

I'd like to see Gray get some consideration, he has spirit.

With the way this year is playing out it looks like we will have yet another high draft pick, deal that thing! Shop it for the best package of multiple picks later and concentrate on young talent to build depth especially on the lines. We could have several young guys competing for a slot on the roster for what a single first rounder would cost.

I don't know if Ozzie would seriously consider it but someone of his caliber to run things would be a step in the right direction. Get a restraining order on Vinnie that states he cannot come within, say 50 miles? 100? of anything related to the franchise.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Draft nearly all OL and DL in April and reinforce the middle of the field again.

Agree. Should have added that

Why get rid of Schaffer who does a excellent job as our capologist? and Riddick?

Its not their fault that wash gives up draft picks and signs players in FA?

Riddick has been the "poor scout" to Scott Campbell being the good scout. When Riddick has been in charge of the drafts, we drafted such stars such as Jim Molinara. Campbell was in charge of the 2006 draft, which produced A Montgomery and Golston, and his FA classes included guys like Marcus Washington, Griffin and Shawn Springs

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

ahhhh...you let the organization do this..

these "everyones got to go" threads are getting old.

i have an idea since you are a fan...buy the damn jerseys watch the damn games. If you knew anything you wouldnt be here making up this crap!

[SkinsHokieFan]

ahhhh...you let the organization do this..

these "everyones got to go" threads are getting old.

i have an idea since you are a fan...buy the damn jerseys watch the damn games. If you knew anything you wouldnt be here making up this crap!

Well of course not, its a complete hypothetical. Its what message board are for

Trust me, I have believed in Gibbs long after 95 percent of this board and fan base had given up on him. I still think he can turn it around and have the team doing things this year and next year

But the clock is ticking and getting real real short here. How much time does the man need?

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

Now this is just a start, and the really about all one can do as an owner. However I simply do not think the current way the team is built will be successful, and it took me a very long time to realize that. Kudos to you who figured it out before

??? you or no one else has figured out shiet but if it makes you feel better.....:jerk:

[Redskins Diehard]

Are the Bears really built all that great?

The offensive side of the ball is pretty offensive.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Are the Bears really built all that great?

The offensive side of the ball is pretty offensive.

The Redskins and Bears hired new head coaches in 2004 and had losing seasons in 2004

Look how quickly one team made it to the Superbowl, while the other was treading water

This season that O is awful, and I blame it on QB play. I really believe we have our franchise QB in place. I am now in the camp that the way this team is run has an effect on everything. And the results on the field prove that

[Hunter_R]

When you look at the body of work of the Washington Redskins over the past few years (and taking away the game with the Bills, I won't count it per this discussion)

Why? How was it any worse than most of the games played all season? Heck, if I could randomly take away a game, it'd be the one versus the Pats.

Anyway, as to the original question, with time. There's not going to be any quick patch. The team isn't "a few pieces away," from being a juggernaut.

1. Convince Synder to stop being so hands-on. Stick to writing checks.

2. For that to happen, a competent GM would be in order.

3. A, and I mean A, as in one, new coach. There's three (maybe 2, not sure on what Saunders has contributed) that need to go.

4. Fix the offensive and defensive lines.

5. If Campbell, Portis, Betts, the receivers, etc. still can't cut it with a decent/good line, fix them.

That ought to be good for a start.

Forgot one:

6. Get some back-ups that amount to more than training dummies with helmets.

[Redskins4ever]

Excellent concepts. I couldn't agree more. The Danny won't allow this to happen. For starters, it would be prudent to hire a GM. A good reputable GM like Ron Wolf could work wonders.

[Rskins91]

ahhhh...you let the organization do this..

these "everyones got to go" threads are getting old.

i have an idea since you are a fan...buy the damn jerseys watch the damn games. If you knew anything you wouldnt be here making up this crap!

Chill out man. All he's doing is making thought provoking discussion and it's clear he's put a lot of thought into it. I really don't understand why you felt the need to make a post like this.

As for myself, I'd like to see these changes in player personnel. I'll try and only keep it to major players.

Released:

CB Shawn Springs (Aging and costs a boatload to keep)

WR Brandon Lloyd ('Nuff Said)

DE Phillip Daniels (Underrated player but may be a neccessary cut like Wynn)

CB David Macklin (Supposed to be good depth, but really didn't do anything)

RG Jason Fabini (Decent veteran backup, but we need youth on the O-Line)

QB Mark Brunell (Thanks for the 05 memories)

RT Todd Wade (If Jansen goes down again, let Heyer play. Hell, maybe let Heyer play regardless)

Signed:

WR Bryant Johnson (Good possession WR overshadowed by Boldin and Fitz)

Re-structuring:

RB Clinton Portis (3.8 mil to 8.9 mil is going to cause problems)

RT Jon Jansen (If he stays with the team, he needs to restructure)

Not greatly acquainted with the draft class this year, so I'll just run by position.

1st Round: DE (Give Carter some help)

2nd Round: OG (Young talent to replace Fabini)

3rd Round: FS (RIP Sean)

4th Round or 5th round (Kendell trade pending): OT (Youth movement for line)

7th Round: WR or CB (See what we can get)

As for coaching personnel, I wouldn't mind seeing Gibbs stay with the team as President or some lower role in the FO. He's had a fair share of good players come here with him. I'd like to see someone young as our new head coach, perhaps Jerry Gray or Jason Garrett. Maybe even promoting internally with Williams.

Definitly need a GM, though I doubt we'll get one.

Also, who do we have with 1 year deals left that we may want to resign this year?

[Mooka]

Good read.

OT, but man last season was so disappointing. I was stoked when we brought in Jerry to be our secondary coach, it was like overkill. Yet we had one of the worst secondaries ever and some of the worst personnel there. Kenny Wright, Mike Rumph, Ade? Bleh...

I guess Gregg and Jackson can take the heat for Archuleta.

[taylorcoreskin]

5) Along with that I would keep Al Saunders. The last thing I would want is Jason Campbell to have to learn another offense and waste the investment of the last 20 games

I think it's funny that you mention this. I don't think Jason Campbell is the type of QB Al Saunders is looking for. He's looking for a QB that understands the value of timing in the passing game. There are a few times each game where JC will take his drop and rather than throwing it quickly right out of his drop, he'll hold on to it and either throw it late or try to make a play with his legs. Especially in the redzone, which is why we passed three straight times inside the bills 5 and JC was totally ineffective. I suspect this is eating Saunders up inside. JC's flaw with timing is magnified in the redzone. He wasn't meant to be a timing passer when Gibbs drafted him. He was meant for a run and gun offense like the one he had in auburn, where they ran a ton and took a few shots downfield to open up the run again when the defense began to load up the box. The auburn offense with JC, cadillac and ronnie brown was similar to the one Gibbs ran in the 80s, which is why Gibbs gave up whatever it took to get Campbell because he thought he found the QB of his second stint. He thought he could replicate his 80s offense with JC in the picture. Then comes Al Saunders and his very different style of offense. If JC can flourish in Saunders offense, it will be a miracle because it would require him to play a totally different way than what was intended for him when Gibbs drafted him. I don't think he'll be able to run Saunders' offense the way Saunders envisions. Gibbs is actually the reason Campbell is still playing for the skins, despite the misconception that he wants Brunell in the game. If Saunders had a choice, Collins would be starting. JC and Saunders do not have a future together when Gibbs goes.

[skinpride1]

ahhhh...you let the organization do this..

these "everyones got to go" threads are getting old.

i have an idea since you are a fan...buy the damn jerseys watch the damn games. If you knew anything you wouldnt be here making up this crap!

At least he is talking about starting with the front office and not the players this time. :laugh: :laugh:

[SkinsHokieFan]

I think it's funny that you mention this. I don't think Jason Campbell is the type of QB Al Saunders is looking for. He's looking for a QB that understands the value of timing in the passing game. There are a few times each game where JC will take his drop and rather than throwing it quickly right out of his drop, he'll hold on to it and either throw it late or try to make a play with his legs. Especially in the redzone, which is why we passed three straight times inside the bills 5 and JC was totally ineffective. I suspect this is eating Saunders up inside. JC's flaw with timing is magnified in the redzone. He wasn't meant to be a timing passer when Gibbs drafted him. He was meant for a run and gun offense like the one he had in auburn, where they ran a ton and took a few shots downfield to open up the run again when the defense began to load up the box. The auburn offense with JC, cadillac and ronnie brown was similar to the one Gibbs ran in the 80s, which is why Gibbs gave up whatever it took to get Campbell because he thought he found the QB of his second stint. He thought he could replicate his 80s offense with JC in the picture. Then comes Al Saunders and his very different style of offense. If JC can flourish in Saunders offense, it will be a miracle because it would require him to play a totally different way than what was intended for him when Gibbs drafted him. I don't think he'll be able to run Saunders' offense the way Saunders envisions. Gibbs is actually the reason Campbell is still playing for the skins, despite the misconception that he wants Brunell in the game. If Saunders had a choice, Collins would be starting. JC and Saunders do not have a future together when Gibbs goes.

Interesting observation, which makes a whole lot of sense

I do think that JC can pick up the timing aspect of the QB position, that comes with experience reps, as well as "seeing" what a D will do before the snap

[taylorcoreskin]

Interesting observation, which makes a whole lot of sense

I do think that JC can pick up the timing aspect of the QB position, that comes with experience reps, as well as "seeing" what a D will do before the snap

Again, it will be a miracle if JC can conform to the style of play Al Saunders wants. Changing his play style from a run and gun type quaterback to a spread the field quarterback is asking a whole lot from one man. I think this is what Saunders was referring to when he praised the work JC put in during the offseason. The fact that he can have some success in Saunders offense is impressive given the transformation the coaches are requiring him to make. I just don't think he can make that complete 180 from run and gun quarterback to the spread the field quarterback Saunders wants.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Again, it will be a miracle if JC can conform to the style of play Al Saunders wants. Changing his play style from a run and gun type quaterback to a spread the field quarterback is asking a whole lot from one man. I think this is what Saunders was referring to when he praised the work JC put in during the offseason. The fact that he can have some success in Saunders offense is impressive given the transformation the coaches are requiring him to make. I just don't think he can make that complete 180 from run and gun quarterback to the spread the field quarterback Saunders wants.

To be fair to Jason, this is also the first time since he entered college that he had a 2nd straight season with the same offense

Which is again why I think it would be a waste to start from scratch with an offensive system. I think timing is something that can certainly come from experience and reps

[taylorcoreskin]

To be fair to Jason, this is also the first time since he entered college that he had a 2nd straight season with the same offense

Which is again why I think it would be a waste to start from scratch with an offensive system. I think timing is something that can certainly come from experience and reps

We'll see. It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong lol. :laugh:

[skinfan2k]

Timing with Midget and Overvalued WRs to some fans.

Moss- plays outsides of the hashes, good #2, cant practice ever

Randel El- slot receiver at best, will always be a guy that catches about 40 balls a season, hamstring strung!

McCardell- great WR if he was 10 yrs younger

Cooley- Not a tall TE, only threat in the middle of the field

Caldwell- still adjusting and performing well for his time here

[SkinsFan48]

thats because their D was much better. THey didnt start building a D in 04. Thats the big difference

The Redskins and Bears hired new head coaches in 2004 and had losing seasons in 2004

Look how quickly one team made it to the Superbowl, while the other was treading water

This season that O is awful, and I blame it on QB play. I really believe we have our franchise QB in place. I am now in the camp that the way this team is run has an effect on everything. And the results on the field prove that

[#21Taylor4Ever]

I think the main thing we need to do is keep Saunders for JC's sake. I dont wanna see him have to learn another playbook all over again. I also like the draft ideas, but I honestly think Wilson will be a nice DE for us next season, so drafting a DE #1 doesnt make any sense. I think we should sign Bob Sanders for FS, draft a bigtime WR with our #1 pick...or maybe even Sweed in the 2nd round. The O-line has to be addressed, but I think Heyer's going to be a stud at RT. Thomas and Rabach are fairly young and Samuels should be good for another 3-4 years maybe more.

[SkinsFan48]

And what source gives you all this info. Just dont make sense to me. Your probably one of the JC haters.

I think it's funny that you mention this. I don't think Jason Campbell is the type of QB Al Saunders is looking for. He's looking for a QB that understands the value of timing in the passing game. There are a few times each game where JC will take his drop and rather than throwing it quickly right out of his drop, he'll hold on to it and either throw it late or try to make a play with his legs. Especially in the redzone, which is why we passed three straight times inside the bills 5 and JC was totally ineffective. I suspect this is eating Saunders up inside. JC's flaw with timing is magnified in the redzone. He wasn't meant to be a timing passer when Gibbs drafted him. He was meant for a run and gun offense like the one he had in auburn, where they ran a ton and took a few shots downfield to open up the run again when the defense began to load up the box. The auburn offense with JC, cadillac and ronnie brown was similar to the one Gibbs ran in the 80s, which is why Gibbs gave up whatever it took to get Campbell because he thought he found the QB of his second stint. He thought he could replicate his 80s offense with JC in the picture. Then comes Al Saunders and his very different style of offense. If JC can flourish in Saunders offense, it will be a miracle because it would require him to play a totally different way than what was intended for him when Gibbs drafted him. I don't think he'll be able to run Saunders' offense the way Saunders envisions. Gibbs is actually the reason Campbell is still playing for the skins, despite the misconception that he wants Brunell in the game. If Saunders had a choice, Collins would be starting. JC and Saunders do not have a future together when Gibbs goes.