is Saunders the problem?

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

So you think it is Al Saunders not Joe Gibbs, who is too conservative?

Interesting.

I do, if you look at Coach Gibbs's history then it would show that he is a coach that believes in balance. We're pretty balanced right now but if you never take shots down the field you aren't a threat in the running game. The opposing team can stack many people in the box. He's said it repeatedly. This running on first down, then running on second down and then throwing on third down pattern needs to stop.

Also, whenever we do pass it, it is a DESIGNED PASS INTO THE FLATS. Coach Gibbs has always been a man that liked to go down the field.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

So you think it is Al Saunders not Joe Gibbs, who is too conservative?

Interesting.

I do, if you look at Coach Gibbs's history then it would show that he is a coach that believes in balance. We're pretty balanced right now but if you never take shots down the field you aren't a threat in the running game. The opposing team can stack many people in the box. He's said it repeatedly. This running on first down, then running on second down and then throwing on third down pattern needs to stop.

Also, whenever we do pass it, it is a DESIGNED PASS INTO THE FLATS. Coach Gibbs has always been a man that liked to go down the field.

[Mister Happy]

I do, if you look at Coach Gibbs's history then it would show that he is a coach that believes in balance. We're pretty balanced right now but if you never take shots down the field you aren't a threat in the running game. The opposing team can stack many people in the box. He's said it repeatedly. This running on first down, then running on second down and then throwing on third down pattern needs to stop.

Also, whenever we do pass it, it is a DESIGNED PASS INTO THE FLATS. Coach Gibbs has always been a man that liked to go down the field.

I'll look at Gibbs history. How about 2004? Guess who was dead last in the NFL in pass plays of 20+ yards? I'll give you a hint. Al Saunders had the 4th most.

In fact, in KC, Saunders was in the top 5 every year in that category, except 2002.

But hey, at least Gibbs was barely out of the bottom 10 in 2005. That must mean he loves to take shots down the field.

Did you happen to read the thread where they listed the fundamentals of an Al Saunders offense? #1 on the list was stretching the field. That's why he had a bunch of speedy WRs with a high yard per catch.

That's why Saunders always had top 10 passing offenses, and Gibbs II always had bottom 10.

PS

Who is the head coach here? Do you think Gibbs really wants to air it out, but Saunders won't let him?

[Mister Happy]

I do, if you look at Coach Gibbs's history then it would show that he is a coach that believes in balance. We're pretty balanced right now but if you never take shots down the field you aren't a threat in the running game. The opposing team can stack many people in the box. He's said it repeatedly. This running on first down, then running on second down and then throwing on third down pattern needs to stop.

Also, whenever we do pass it, it is a DESIGNED PASS INTO THE FLATS. Coach Gibbs has always been a man that liked to go down the field.

I'll look at Gibbs history. How about 2004? Guess who was dead last in the NFL in pass plays of 20+ yards? I'll give you a hint. Al Saunders had the 4th most.

In fact, in KC, Saunders was in the top 5 every year in that category, except 2002.

But hey, at least Gibbs was barely out of the bottom 10 in 2005. That must mean he loves to take shots down the field.

Did you happen to read the thread where they listed the fundamentals of an Al Saunders offense? #1 on the list was stretching the field. That's why he had a bunch of speedy WRs with a high yard per catch.

That's why Saunders always had top 10 passing offenses, and Gibbs II always had bottom 10.

PS

Who is the head coach here? Do you think Gibbs really wants to air it out, but Saunders won't let him?

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

I'll look at Gibbs history. How about 2004? Guess who was dead last in the NFL in pass plays of 20+ yards? I'll give you a hint. Al Saunders had the 4th most.

In fact, in KC, Saunders was in the top 5 every year in that category, except 2002.

But hey, at least Gibbs was barely out of the bottom 10 in 2005. That must mean he loves to take shots down the field.

Did you happen to read the thread where they listed the fundamentals of an Al Saunders offense? #1 on the list was stretching the field. That's why he had a bunch of speedy WRs with a high yard per catch.

That's why Saunders always had top 10 passing offenses, and Gibbs II always had bottom 10.

PS

Who is the head coach here? Do you think Gibbs really wants to air it out, but Saunders won't let him?

You can talk about 2004 all you want but it doesn't erase what he did when he had some good teams and QB's back in the 80's and early 90's. Al Saunders was working with one of the top offenses in the league in 2004.

I'm not saying Al Saunders is holding Gibbs back from calling what he wants because Gibbs isn't calling anything!! It is time that he started though. He's got faith in Al to get it done (at least in public) and there would be no reason to have him here or to have his contract on our salary cap if he wasn't calling the plays.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

I'll look at Gibbs history. How about 2004? Guess who was dead last in the NFL in pass plays of 20+ yards? I'll give you a hint. Al Saunders had the 4th most.

In fact, in KC, Saunders was in the top 5 every year in that category, except 2002.

But hey, at least Gibbs was barely out of the bottom 10 in 2005. That must mean he loves to take shots down the field.

Did you happen to read the thread where they listed the fundamentals of an Al Saunders offense? #1 on the list was stretching the field. That's why he had a bunch of speedy WRs with a high yard per catch.

That's why Saunders always had top 10 passing offenses, and Gibbs II always had bottom 10.

PS

Who is the head coach here? Do you think Gibbs really wants to air it out, but Saunders won't let him?

You can talk about 2004 all you want but it doesn't erase what he did when he had some good teams and QB's back in the 80's and early 90's. Al Saunders was working with one of the top offenses in the league in 2004.

I'm not saying Al Saunders is holding Gibbs back from calling what he wants because Gibbs isn't calling anything!! It is time that he started though. He's got faith in Al to get it done (at least in public) and there would be no reason to have him here or to have his contract on our salary cap if he wasn't calling the plays.

[Mister Happy]

You can talk about 2004 all you want but it doesn't erase what he did when he had some good teams and QB's back in the 80's and early 90's. Al Saunders was working with one of the top offenses in the league in 2004.

I'm not saying Al Saunders is holding Gibbs back from calling what he wants because Gibbs isn't calling anything!! It is time that he started though. He's got faith in Al to get it done (at least in public) and there would be no reason to have him here or to have his contract on our salary cap if he wasn't calling the plays.

Saunders has always aired it out. Gibbs hasn't. In fact, Gibbs II never aired it out.

We were having the same discussions about sitting on leads in 2005 that we are having now. What's your excuse for that? Saunders wasn't here.

[Mister Happy]

You can talk about 2004 all you want but it doesn't erase what he did when he had some good teams and QB's back in the 80's and early 90's. Al Saunders was working with one of the top offenses in the league in 2004.

I'm not saying Al Saunders is holding Gibbs back from calling what he wants because Gibbs isn't calling anything!! It is time that he started though. He's got faith in Al to get it done (at least in public) and there would be no reason to have him here or to have his contract on our salary cap if he wasn't calling the plays.

Saunders has always aired it out. Gibbs hasn't. In fact, Gibbs II never aired it out.

We were having the same discussions about sitting on leads in 2005 that we are having now. What's your excuse for that? Saunders wasn't here.

[illone]

Saunders has always aired it out. Gibbs hasn't. In fact, Gibbs II never aired it out.

Does that explain why Moss broke the franchise record for receiving yardage in 2005?

I'd say Gibbs loves to air it out. Kind of hard to when the team isn't converting on 3rd down, which to me is more a function of poor oline play than Gibbs' "conservatism".

[illone]

Saunders has always aired it out. Gibbs hasn't. In fact, Gibbs II never aired it out.

Does that explain why Moss broke the franchise record for receiving yardage in 2005?

I'd say Gibbs loves to air it out. Kind of hard to when the team isn't converting on 3rd down, which to me is more a function of poor oline play than Gibbs' "conservatism".

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

Does that explain why Moss broke the franchise record for receiving yardage in 2005?

I'd say Gibbs loves to air it out. Kind of hard to when the team isn't converting on 3rd down, which to me is more a function of poor oline play than Gibbs' "conservatism".

I agree.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

Does that explain why Moss broke the franchise record for receiving yardage in 2005?

I'd say Gibbs loves to air it out. Kind of hard to when the team isn't converting on 3rd down, which to me is more a function of poor oline play than Gibbs' "conservatism".

I agree.

[jwsleep]

Yes, Al is the problem IF he doesn't have the balls to step up to Joe Gibbs and say that he wants to do something different.

But my guess is the problem is a combination of things: injuries, young QB, lack of execution, poor playcalling during the game by Al (and Joe when he has input), poor scheming by both coaches during the week.

BUT FOR ALL THAT, WE ARE 4-2!!!!! And even the most negative among you (Joe haters, Al haters, whatever) have to admit that we've had some very strong drives and some very strong halves, and a very strong game against Detroit. So it's not like it NEVER works with these guys. Maybe we haven't got it all together yet. But I am optimistic--the glass is half full. Some teams cannot play even a half of good football on offense. We can. Now we need to make it a full game on a regular basis. Can we do that? We'll see....

[jwsleep]

Yes, Al is the problem IF he doesn't have the balls to step up to Joe Gibbs and say that he wants to do something different.

But my guess is the problem is a combination of things: injuries, young QB, lack of execution, poor playcalling during the game by Al (and Joe when he has input), poor scheming by both coaches during the week.

BUT FOR ALL THAT, WE ARE 4-2!!!!! And even the most negative among you (Joe haters, Al haters, whatever) have to admit that we've had some very strong drives and some very strong halves, and a very strong game against Detroit. So it's not like it NEVER works with these guys. Maybe we haven't got it all together yet. But I am optimistic--the glass is half full. Some teams cannot play even a half of good football on offense. We can. Now we need to make it a full game on a regular basis. Can we do that? We'll see....

[Mister Happy]

Does that explain why Moss broke the franchise record for receiving yardage in 2005?

I'd say Gibbs loves to air it out. Kind of hard to when the team isn't converting on 3rd down, which to me is more a function of poor oline play than Gibbs' "conservatism".

It does explain why Gibbs was in the bottom 10 in passing offense in 2005.

Moss had tons of yards because his #2 was David Patten with 200 yards, and don't blame it on Patten. He had 800 yards as a #2 the year before.

Did you forget 2005 completely? Go back an read some of threads. People were complaining about Joe being conservative then, too.

[Mister Happy]

Does that explain why Moss broke the franchise record for receiving yardage in 2005?

I'd say Gibbs loves to air it out. Kind of hard to when the team isn't converting on 3rd down, which to me is more a function of poor oline play than Gibbs' "conservatism".

It does explain why Gibbs was in the bottom 10 in passing offense in 2005.

Moss had tons of yards because his #2 was David Patten with 200 yards, and don't blame it on Patten. He had 800 yards as a #2 the year before.

Did you forget 2005 completely? Go back an read some of threads. People were complaining about Joe being conservative then, too.

[skins island connection]

I have to say that it is saunder's problem...

the year before he got there, if i'm not mistaken, the skins went to the playoffs...

Now, granted, it seems to be a problem across the board with the team, coaching, attitude, etc etc, dropped balls do not help the team, lack of running the routes correctly doesn't help, trying to force feed the running game against a 10 man line { see goal line running }, and it goes on and on...

The skins have what is called the "crud" ! a funk, if you will...once they get out of it, they will be the most dangerous team in the nfl, bar none!

moss, el, portis, cooley, etc etc have to assert themselves and focus on the game, saunders or gibbs, whoever is calling the plays, has to start going against tendencies, like gibbs did in the late 80's/ early 90's, when running looked like the thing to do, pass; and vise versa...

the defense is one of the best and can hold its own, but they cannot keep doing this week after week or it will wear them out, so the offense has to start carrying the load ...

P.S. :dallasuck

[skins island connection]

I have to say that it is saunder's problem...

the year before he got there, if i'm not mistaken, the skins went to the playoffs...

Now, granted, it seems to be a problem across the board with the team, coaching, attitude, etc etc, dropped balls do not help the team, lack of running the routes correctly doesn't help, trying to force feed the running game against a 10 man line { see goal line running }, and it goes on and on...

The skins have what is called the "crud" ! a funk, if you will...once they get out of it, they will be the most dangerous team in the nfl, bar none!

moss, el, portis, cooley, etc etc have to assert themselves and focus on the game, saunders or gibbs, whoever is calling the plays, has to start going against tendencies, like gibbs did in the late 80's/ early 90's, when running looked like the thing to do, pass; and vise versa...

the defense is one of the best and can hold its own, but they cannot keep doing this week after week or it will wear them out, so the offense has to start carrying the load ...

P.S. :dallasuck

[Hooper]

The past four years, we have struggled to put up even 20 points on anything close to a consistent basis. Now, name the one constant in those four years. Is it --

A) Al Saunders and his 700 page playbook?

Personnel?

or

C) Joe Gibbs?

Again, case closed. Saunders is not the problem.

[Hooper]

The past four years, we have struggled to put up even 20 points on anything close to a consistent basis. Now, name the one constant in those four years. Is it --

A) Al Saunders and his 700 page playbook?

Personnel?

or

C) Joe Gibbs?

Again, case closed. Saunders is not the problem.

[MWLthe1st]

The problem with conservative is that in the 80's, you could get away with it. Get a lead and sit on it.

Nowadays, the entire game is geared to more offense because the fans like offense and the NFL wants the ratings. EVERY RULE CHANGE in the past 10 years has been to increase offense. You cant sit on a 1 score lead because the other team IS GOING to score.

The Skins take advantage of that less than any team in the league (except the Jets).

I'm not doubting you at all when I ask this - What changes have promoted an increase in offense? I've also heard there have been rules that favor the pass game than run game? Can anyone list these? Thanks

[MWLthe1st]

The problem with conservative is that in the 80's, you could get away with it. Get a lead and sit on it.

Nowadays, the entire game is geared to more offense because the fans like offense and the NFL wants the ratings. EVERY RULE CHANGE in the past 10 years has been to increase offense. You cant sit on a 1 score lead because the other team IS GOING to score.

The Skins take advantage of that less than any team in the league (except the Jets).

I'm not doubting you at all when I ask this - What changes have promoted an increase in offense? I've also heard there have been rules that favor the pass game than run game? Can anyone list these? Thanks

[MWLthe1st]

Can anyone provide an answer?

[MWLthe1st]

Can anyone provide an answer?

[Blackest Eyes]

Can anyone provide an answer?

The answer is no. Al is not the problem.