Thankyou, santana and carlos rogers

[riggins44]

While I'm just as frustrated as everyone else on this board with Santana's drops, I can't believe everyone wants to throw the man under the bus so quickly. He has won some big games for us and energized the passing game since he got here and has done everything that's been asked of him. He also doesn't preen like Chad Johnson and T.O. do after every touchdown. Santana Moss has shown nothing but class on and off the field, and he needs and deserves our support during this difficult time.

I second this! Last time I checked Santana, Rogers, and Portis weren't the

only 3 guys on the field. This is a team game. You win as a team and lose

as a team.

Yes, they had a bad day at the office. I know I've had many bad days at

the office as well. What if everyone was fired everytime they had a bad day at the office?

Come on...cut these guys some slack.

[NewCliche21]

Show me one cornerback who relishes hearing this as his only defense?

You do realize that if Carlos Rogers makes that tackle, the Green Bay Packers end up with about 140 yards passing instead of 188? Carlos' lack of a tackle gave up 1/4th of the total passing yards. How our defense is playing, it's pretty uncertain that Green Bay scores from 50+ yards out without the aid of Carlos Rogers and his critical lapse (getting to be a weekly event with this guy). Even if Carlos Rogers took a 15 yard penalty and dragged the guy down by his face mask, they still would've had to have gone 30+ yards for a TD.

You also realize that Carlos Rogers got his hand on a ball that could've been an interception... Instead, he couldn't make the play (granted, it would've been a really great play) and the very next down Mason Crosby kicks a field goal that is the 3-point difference in the game.

All 10 defensive points, Carlos Rogers could've made a play that prevented them from scoring. Carlos' lack of play-making is hurting us. The guy was drafted in the 1st round (9th pick)... He needs to play like it.

:doh:

Please stop. You're making yourself look silly.

Rogers has been earning his draft pick this year. I've hated him since the moment he was drafted, but he's been lights out this year. Please pay attention and keep your "But only if Rogers had put his hand an inch lower and Daylight Savings Time hadn't been extended and the weather were unseasonbly high and we found the WMD" BS to yourself.

Any other year of Rogers's career and I'd agree with you, but one blown play doesn't mean squat when you compare to how he has still shut down other teams this year.

[SkinsWizCubsDukes]

say what you want folks but santana hasnt been much lately and he basically gave the game away. As for rogers, he continues to get beaten and making us look bad, his high point against the lions, was in garbage time. Sick of the little mistakes, santana's head isnt even in the game anymore. Frustration sets it, Defense was GREAT as expected, campbell, great, portis good game but coughed up his weekley fumble. They say "one player wont win/loose a game", you all tell me.....

One missed tackle and we are calling for Rogers' head...gotta love the losing weeks.

Wake up!!!!! We held them to 10 points on offense.

Santana can't be excused nor can Carlos' ONE poor tackle, nor Portis' fumble.

HOWEVER...we still had a chance to win the game.

Do you wanna talk about ARE's third down drop, do you wanna talk about Lloyd's drop, or was that attributed to a bad throw.

My point is, we still had chances to win the game. After the Portis fumble, we got the ball back with better field postition than we had. Then we gave that up, and then ST got a pick. We blew that oppurtunity too.

The coaches need to prepare the team to win in the final two minutes of a game or we will continue to let games like this one slip away.

I am sorry you can't burn a timeout to think about a fourth down decision in the second half.

[BKSkinsFan]

Show me one cornerback who relishes hearing this as his only defense?

You do realize that if Carlos Rogers makes that tackle, the Green Bay Packers end up with about 140 yards passing instead of 188?

You also realize that Carlos Rogers got his hand on a ball that could've been an interception... Instead, he couldn't make the play (granted, it would've been a really great play) and the very next down Mason Crosby kicks a field goal that is the 3-point difference in the game.

All 10 defensive points, Carlos Rogers could've made a play that prevented them from scoring. Carlos' lack of play-making is hurting us. The guy was drafted in the 1st round (9th pick)... He needs to play like it.

You also realize that if Rocky would have stayed in coverage instead of biting on the play action the TE wouldn't have even been open?

People blame Los for the Plaxico TD also, but didn't ST miss the tackle on that play too?

So you think our defense should shut every team out, and if they give up ONE TD off of the #1 passing offense after holding Favre under 200 yards someone needs cut? For missing 1 tackle, and not being able to haul in an INT that would have been a top play nominee. Let's cut ST for missing 2 INTs too, 1 of them either getting taken back for 6 or setting our offense up in great field position.

Put the blame on injuries and costly errors by our playmakers where it belongs.

[Smoot Point Really]

And you are probably upset at lloyd for missing that overthrown ball too. That ball was a bad throw to begin with by Favre, and carlos got his hands on it while diving downward, even if he had gotten his hands around it he likely loses it when he hits the ground. Instead it gets tipped up in the air, and Springs/Taylor et all had a shot at it. I'd rather see that happen to be honest.

Secondly, I don't give one care about whether you like my credibility or not. Los tried to knock lee over but didn't exactly lose him when missing. Landry pushed him out of the way and prevented him from going for the legs on the second try. IT was a bad angle on a play that a SAFETY should have been in position to stop before Los got there. That play was NOT carlos fault, this ain't madden man. Smoot dropped an easy INT and taylor dropped two or three pick 6's during the game but you aren't down on him.

No player is going to be 100% in all situations, get that and maybe you'll begin to understand

1) You can't defend Carlos Rogers by pointing out what other players have or have not done. You do realize that Fred Smoot was drafted in the bottom of the 2nd round and had at least 9 INTs by this same point in his career? If you get interceptions, it makes up for blown tackles and long plays against you.

2) Actually, Rocky McIntosh blew the coverage on the play... Not the safety. Carlos blew the tackle... The position you are taking is indefensible.

3) Smoot didn't give up 50 extra yards by missing a tackle. Smoot hasn't give up a play of more than 15 yards all season, and when he does play poorly I'll give him the same criticism. Carlos Rogers has been in a position to stop nearly every one of our defensive plays where we give up more than 20 yards, and he has missed those opportunities...

4) Sean Taylor had two interceptions... When Sean Taylor misses an opportunity, we can forgive him because the guy does make plays. The same could be said for Carlos if he would make a big play, but he hasn't.

Do you really believe Carlos Rogers has been worth a 9th overall pick based on his play? It's 3rd round at best. So far, the guy is average... Not special.

[riggins44]

Show me one cornerback who relishes hearing this as his only defense?

You do realize that if Carlos Rogers makes that tackle, the Green Bay Packers end up with about 140 yards passing instead of 188? Carlos' lack of a tackle gave up 1/4th of the total passing yards. How our defense is playing, it's pretty uncertain that Green Bay scores from 50+ yards out without the aid of Carlos Rogers and his critical lapse (getting to be a weekly event with this guy). Even if Carlos Rogers took a 15 yard penalty and dragged the guy down by his face mask, they still would've had to have gone 30+ yards for a TD.

You also realize that Carlos Rogers got his hand on a ball that could've been an interception... Instead, he couldn't make the play (granted, it would've been a really great play) and the very next down Mason Crosby kicks a field goal that is the 3-point difference in the game.

All 10 defensive points, Carlos Rogers could've made a play that prevented them from scoring. Carlos' lack of play-making is hurting us. The guy was drafted in the 1st round (9th pick)... He needs to play like it.

Why not blame Rocky? He bit on the play action and let the guy get open.

Or why not blame the DL for not sacking Farve or knocking that pass down?

You can't single any one guy out. It takes 11 guys working together.

[Veretax]

1) You can't defend Carlos Rogers by pointing out what other players have or have not done. You do realize that Fred Smoot was drafted in the bottom of the 2nd round and had at least 9 INTs by this same point in his career? If you get interceptions, it makes up for blown tackles and long plays against you.

2) Actually, Rocky McIntosh blew the coverage on the play... Not the safety. Carlos blew the tackle... The position you are taking is indefensible.

3) Smoot didn't give up 50 extra yards by missing a tackle. Smoot hasn't give up a play of more than 15 yards all season, and when he does play poorly I'll give him the same criticism. Carlos Rogers has been in a position to stop nearly every one of our defensive plays where we give up more than 20 yards, and he has missed those opportunities...

4) Sean Taylor had two interceptions... When Sean Taylor misses an opportunity, we can forgive him because the guy does make plays. The same could be said for Carlos if he would make a big play, but he hasn't.

Do you really believe Carlos Rogers has been worth a 9th overall pick based on his play? It's 3rd round at best. So far, the guy is average... Not special.

Rogers was drafted lower than Taylor and Landry. How many INTs have they dropped this year? I guarantee you its a lot more then Carlos has. ARe you calling for their heads, no you aren't you are just being biased because you don't like Carlos, and wished we had taken Pacman, or Merriman, or some X other player that you haven't named instead. If you give Taylor and Landry some mercy you owe it to Carlos too otherwise you are being unfair. Period.

[Smoot Point Really]

:doh:

Please stop. You're making yourself look silly.

Rogers has been earning his draft pick this year. I've hated him since the moment he was drafted, but he's been lights out this year. Please pay attention and keep your "But only if Rogers had put his hand an inch lower and Daylight Savings Time hadn't been extended and the weather were unseasonbly high and we found the WMD" BS to yourself.

Any other year of Rogers's career and I'd agree with you, but one blown play doesn't mean squat when you compare to how he has still shut down other teams this year.

I'm only asking Carlos Rogers to tackle and make plays... You'd think I was asking him to do something that normal NFL cornerbacks taken higher than the 3rd round aren't able to do.

[Smoot Point Really]

Rogers was drafted lower than Taylor and Landry. How many INTs have they dropped this year? I guarantee you its a lot more then Carlos has. ARe you calling for their heads, no you aren't you are just being biased because you don't like Carlos, and wished we had taken Pacman, or Merriman, or some X other player that you haven't named instead. If you give Taylor and Landry some mercy you owe it to Carlos too otherwise you are being unfair. Period.

Landry just finished his 5th NFL game... Taylor has 4 INTs. Why would I complain about them?

I'm not calling for Carlos Rogers' head... Stop exaggerating.

I'm expressing my intense disappointment in his play... Look, we lost... Carlos had two opportunities to make plays that could've changed the outcome and he came up short on those plays again. He doesn't make enough plays in critical situations to be exonerated. Can you truthfully say that this guy has played up to the level of a 9th overall pick?

[Veretax]

wow so because of two lost opportunities he's a scape goat?

again, what about taylor missing 3 ints? moss missing like 9 catches one which resulted in an INT the other way. good grief.

[Geoff_K]

I think the D and ST did a great job. Campbell and Cooley did a great job. The rest of the O and a couple questionable calls from our coaches (back to back timeouts for instance) on the O side were not up to what we expect them to be.

[2006Skins]

Last I checked there are 11 guys on a field at the same time. Lets not forgot some of these facts:

Offensive line gave up 15 hurries at last count, not including the final drive. That's way too many, hurt or not.

Running game was non existent. Can't blame the backs for that, but the line doesn't deserve all the blame.

Costly drops by numerous receivers.

Questionable management of the clock, however not the reason we lost.

McCarthy had a quote I am proud of as a skins fan...

"The Redskins were the best team we have played this year."

If you don't want to look into that much, ok. But that is a compliment to your team.

I think Santana and CP will have monster games next week. Lets not forget what these guys are capable of, and that they're playing hurt.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

lol at anyone even suggesting carlos had a bad game. he missed a tackle on a guy he wasnt even covering who outweighs him by about a billion pounds.

brett favre threw for 188 yards, and people are complaining about carlos? thats truly sad.

it was all on #89 yesterday. all of it. he accounted for 3 huge game changing plays, that all fell under the negative category.

[tone_dubbz]

This thread should read thanks santana and portis. Rogers had a penalty or two but no one on the defensive side of the ball should be mentioned.

The defense only gave up on touchdown. So noone on the D should really be mentioned.

Moss and Portis had off days. I think they'll get back in gear next week at home.

[Smoot Point Really]

wow so because of two lost opportunities he's a scape goat?

again, what about taylor missing 3 ints? moss missing like 9 catches one which resulted in an INT the other way. good grief.

Don't be so brain-dead... This isn't just about one game. It's about 37 NFL games and the continued loss of opportunities from our cornerback.

Sean Taylor has as many INTs in 5 games this season as Carlos has in his whole career... Why do you keep bringing him up? When Sean Taylor misses a play, you only have to look back a few plays (or series) to remember the last time this guy made a positive game-altering play.

Santana Moss is having a bad year, but he is one of the best play-makers on our team!

I believe when we picked Carlos Rogers, that it was a good pick. I'd rather have had Merriman (local boy), but since we didn't re-sign Smoot, then I couldn't complain at the time. I'm not faulting the coaching staff for making a bad pick... I'm faulting Carlos Rogers for not living up to his potential. In order for him to live up to his potential, he needs to make plays when the opportunities are presented. He needs to be contributing to wins, not making such glaring errors in defeat.

The guy has opportunities to make plays... He needs to convert them. I can't see why people are so happy with his play that they would be offended that I suggest the guy play better.

[Smoot Point Really]

lol at anyone even suggesting carlos had a bad game. he missed a tackle on a guy he wasnt even covering who outweighs him by about a billion pounds.

brett favre threw for 188 yards, and people are complaining about carlos? thats truly sad.

it was all on #89 yesterday. all of it. he accounted for 3 huge game changing plays, that all fell under the negative category.

I haven't once said that Carlos Rogers had a bad game and was solely responsible for the loss. Carlos had two opportunities to make plays and failed on both. Those two failed opportunities contributed to our defense giving up 10 points.

Of those 188 yards, Carlos missed tackle contributed to 50 of those yards and the first 7 points of the game. The pass went for 60. I'll say we should've brought him down after 10.

I don't care how big that guy is, Carlos was in a position to take him out at the knees... Heck, a 15-yard face mask would've been better than the result and probably won us the game. Gimme a horse-collar or piggy-back that guy for an extra 10 yards, but you have to make an effort. He failed.

[Smoot Point Really]

It's not like I'm asking for perfection... Just make some damned plays from the cornerback position that counteract the inevitable negative play that cornerbacks do give up. If he could do that, then I'd be able to write off a few gaffes as "business as usual". This guy has to give me reasons to forget the bad plays... Until he does that, he is the weakest link on a great defense.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I haven't once said that Carlos Rogers had a bad game and was solely responsible for the loss. Carlos had two opportunities to make plays and failed on both. Those two failed opportunities contributed to our defense giving up 10 points.

Of those 188 yards, Carlos missed tackle contributed to 50 of those yards and the first 7 points of the game. The pass went for 60. I'll say we should've brought him down after 10.

I don't care how big that guy is, Carlos was in a position to take him out at the knees... Heck, a 15-yard face mask would've been better than the result and probably won us the game. Gimme a horse-collar or piggy-back that guy for an extra 10 yards, but you have to make an effort. He failed.

was carlos covering their TE? answer? no. blame rocky for the botched coverage, or blame fletcher for the botched coverage. corners dont cover TEs.

and youve gotta stop with this "he was the 9th overall pick and hes not living up to it". so hes not a complete beasting stud at cornerback, thats fine. not everyone picked in the first round is a hall of famer. hes a very solid to good cornerback and this team would be hurting without him. leave his draft number out of it, and look at what he contributes. he contributed to that 188 yards and 2 picks. i think i saw him get thrown at once.

he made an effort on a guy who outweighs him by about 50 pounds. sure he should have made the stop. he didnt. he gave up one big play all day on a defense that held them to pretty much nothing.

moss lost us that game, its sad youd even try and say had carlos tackled that guy we would have won. you cant count on your defense to allow 0 points all game. give up the rogers criticizing. maybe you should focus on your boy smoot, who got lucky as hell that his TD he allowed wasnt a push out.

[smoke-n-mirrors]

Moss hasn't been off to a good start. But he's had 2 or 3 bad games and you want to fry him. He's been our main playmaker for 3 years!! He's earned a pass in my book and there is no doubt in my mind that he will be back on track soon.

[kingfish50]

say what you want folks but santana hasnt been much lately and he basically gave the game away. As for rogers, he continues to get beaten and making us look bad, his high point against the lions, was in garbage time. Sick of the little mistakes, santana's head isnt even in the game anymore. Frustration sets it, Defense was GREAT as expected, campbell, great, portis good game but coughed up his weekley fumble. They say "one player wont win/loose a game", you all tell me.....

I couldn't have said it any better. Santana hasn't produced at all this season. He keeps dropping easy passes. If he's still injured, he should stay on the bench as he does more harm than good and costing this team any chance for a victory.

Portis isn't getting the yards on the ground. With an ever changing o-line, that's to be expected but there is no excuse for his recent streak of fumbling the ball.

Randel-El is playing as good as can be expected but he's not a #1 receiver and

Cooley shouldn't be a primary target. He's great for your short to mid range yardage but he's not a deep threat.

Yesterday's game should have been a victory as the better team lost this one due to the ineptness of Moss and Portis. If they aren't 100%, then start Betts or Sellers at RB. Replacing Moss shouldn't be all that difficult. Brandon LLoyd and McCardel should be more than able to replace him and actually catch the damn ball.

[ST+LL=Area51]

Someone just said in another thread that Moss quit.

Anyone who says this has never played competitive sports in their life and can't know how it feels to let your team down the way Santana did yesterday.

I give props to Moss and give a dirty look to anyone who says Moss quit and should be benched/demoted :laugh:

[Laxpunk2006]

It's really amazing that Rogers can take so much heat on this board. Our D held GB's starting recievers to 8 catches for 58 yards. You know, those guys our CB's cover? Lee scored on a big played because A. Rocky blew his coverage B. Landy took a horrible angle, and stiff armed Rogers to the ground after his intial bad tackle, and C. Because after Rogers broke off his solid coverage to fix Rocky's mistake, he was unable to tackle someone 50 lbs more than him. That play was not Rogers responsibility and not entirely his own fault. If he had just stuck to his coverage and not tried to help out Rocky this thread wouldn't even exist. People break tackles, deal with it.

CB's can't be judged on one play. Champ Bailey misses tackles, so does Nate Clements and Asante Samuel. Rogers has been great in run support, and has severely limited the recievers he has been matched up on. This game was entirely on our O failing to score. But honestly what do you expect with the entire offensive line out and our top reciever forgetting how to catch.

[kingfish50]

Someone just said in another thread that Moss quit.

Anyone who says this has never played competitive sports in their life and can't know how it feels to let your team down the way Santana did yesterday.

I give props to Moss and give a dirty look to anyone who says Moss quit and should be benched/demoted :laugh:

I don't think Moss has quit but I do feel that he's not playing at 100% and it shows on the field. What ever it is, it seems to be in his head. He's getting the separation and the distance from the defenders but looses it when the ball touches his hands.

[Smoot Point Really]

was carlos covering their TE? answer? no. blame rocky for the botched coverage, or blame fletcher for the botched coverage. corners dont cover TEs.

and youve gotta stop with this "he was the 9th overall pick and hes not living up to it". so hes not a complete beasting stud at cornerback, thats fine. not everyone picked in the first round is a hall of famer. hes a very solid to good cornerback and this team would be hurting without him. leave his draft number out of it, and look at what he contributes. he contributed to that 188 yards and 2 picks. i think i saw him get thrown at once.

he made an effort on a guy who outweighs him by about 50 pounds. sure he should have made the stop. he didnt. he gave up one big play all day on a defense that held them to pretty much nothing.

moss lost us that game, its sad youd even try and say had carlos tackled that guy we would have won. you cant count on your defense to allow 0 points all game. give up the rogers criticizing. maybe you should focus on your boy smoot, who got lucky as hell that his TD he allowed wasnt a push out.

McIntosh botched the coverage, but we all saw Rogers botch the tackle... Tackling is supposed to be his strong point. I don't see how you can argue that he "made an effort"... Jumping on the guys back and letting him drag you for 10 yards is making an effort. Nudging him with a shoulder and hoping he falls down is not making an effort.

You have acknowledged in other threads the obvious, that all the talk about Carlos would go away if the guy would make big plays... This game was a classic example of this. I haven't blamed Carlos completely for the loss and I won't blame Moss either. However, the game was very close and there are a handful of plays that could've changed the outcome of the game. Carlos had two opportunities, and he failed on both.

This wouldn't be an issue if the guy made big plays to help us win games in the past...

[cozmikbuffalo]

Santana and Portis deserve to be there, not Rogers or anyone on the Defensive side of the ball. I just hope this hapless Offense won't waste this SB caliber defense this year by being Boneheads.