For those so-called Redskin Fans

[Taylor4Life]

So why again is someone who is ok with losing a fan and one who is not ok with losing not a fan?

:applause:

Fantastic post.

I am getting sick and tired of these blowhards questioning the fan loyalty of any that dare blaspheme the Lord All Mighty Joe Gibbs.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

Why do you bash your head coach? Why do you think everything in the NFL is easy? We lose one game, and then all of a sudden people say, Gibbs doesn't have it anymore, Gibbs's attention is split between the Redskins and Nascar, Gibbs isn't giving his all, Gibbs from the past would have had these 2007 Redskins player harder, Gibbs has lost it, Gibbs only plays not to lose, Gibbs is too conservative, the game has past him by, etc..

I'm getting tired of hearing this. I for one, KNOW Gibbs is the best coach in the NFL. If I'm not mistaken, he has the highest winning percentage amongst active coaches. I for one KNOW he's the best man for the job. This is an entirely different NFL than he coached in before. Gibbs teams from the past blew halftime leads also.

Everyone is talking about Bill Cower. Well, Cower couldn't take his Steelers to the playoffs the following year after winning it all, could he? How many NFL coaches from Gibbs era who was successful came back to even attempt to do what he's doing now? Not Mike Ditka, not Chuck Noll, not John Robinson, not John Madden, not Tom Flores, not Don Coryell, not anyone but maybe Parcells and Bill Parcells wasn't even gone from the game for the duration of time Gibbs was gone.

Enough!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop abusing the head coach. If you can't be a true diehard Redskin fan, then cheer for some other NFL franchise. You sound like undercover Dallas Cowboy fans.

Note: If Joe Gibbs can coach the Redskins to a divisional playoff round in only his second season back after a twelve year hiatus, then he can take them do the Super Bowl too.

REDSKINS4EVER

I agree with everything that I bolded.

[Guest Rafterman]

Anyone who thinks that this is just "one game," or that you can't be a fan if you criticize the head coach seriously needs to never open their mouth again. How ignorant. People are up in arms over what has become a systemic and pervasive piss poor pattern of play-calling and game management under the Gibbs regime. His inability to adjust to the modern NFL is costing OUR BELOVED REDSKINS important games. Feel free to be a mindless lemming and worship the feet of an unprepared and outmatched headcoach, gobbling up his weekly inane propaganda. Some of us, however, would actually like to raise, address, and propose solutions to the problems this team has so that OUR BELOVED REDSKINS will stop sucking. Gibbs clearly hasn't gotten the message on his own after 4 years, and apparently the coaches are too scared to confront him even though they know whats up. So, someone has to tell him he is being a dumbass, and that someone is us.

:applause: :notworthy :applause: :notworthy :applause:

You just received my vote for post of the year. :helmet:

[Siven]

Why do you bash your head coach? Why do you think everything in the NFL is easy? We lose one game, and then all of a sudden people say, Gibbs doesn't have it anymore, Gibbs's attention is split between the Redskins and Nascar, Gibbs isn't giving his all, Gibbs from the past would have had these 2007 Redskins player harder, Gibbs has lost it, Gibbs only plays not to lose, Gibbs is too conservative, the game has past him by, etc..

I'm getting tired of hearing this. I for one, KNOW Gibbs is the best coach in the NFL. If I'm not mistaken, he has the highest winning percentage amongst active coaches. I for one KNOW he's the best man for the job. This is an entirely different NFL than he coached in before. Gibbs teams from the past blew halftime leads also.

Everyone is talking about Bill Cower. Well, Cower couldn't take his Steelers to the playoffs the following year after winning it all, could he? How many NFL coaches from Gibbs era who was successful came back to even attempt to do what he's doing now? Not Mike Ditka, not Chuck Noll, not John Robinson, not John Madden, not Tom Flores, not Don Coryell, not anyone but maybe Parcells and Bill Parcells wasn't even gone from the game for the duration of time Gibbs was gone.

Enough!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop abusing the head coach. If you can't be a true diehard Redskin fan, then cheer for some other NFL franchise. You sound like undercover Dallas Cowboy fans.

Note: If Joe Gibbs can coach the Redskins to a divisional playoff round in only his second season back after a twelve year hiatus, then he can take them do the Super Bowl too.

REDSKINS4EVER

Gibbs has a crap winning percentage since hes been back, and thats what counts in today's NFL.

Cowher couldn't take his team back to the Superbowl because his QB was a moron and crashed his motorcycle.

[Guest Rafterman]

These are the type of posts that make me so mad.

Also there are prob 10000 other threads on this subject, a search would do you well.

But to answer breifly;

Why are you ok with 14-15 years of almost nothing but failure?

Why are you ok with 2 playoff apearences since Gibbs I.

Why are you ok having less wins than the Bills in the last 5 years or so?

Why do you know Gibbs is the best current coach in the league?

Why are you ok with 2 losing seasons in the last 3?

Why are you ok with signings like archuleta and b lloyd for more money than i will ever see in my life?

Why are you ok with giving draft picks away like candy (4 picks for lloyd and duckket)?

Why do you consider yourself a fan if you are ok with the team continously losing? (i mean i am ok with the cardinals losing all the time, but alas i am not a fan of that team)

I am a HUGE fan of this team, i pour my heart out during each and every game. However, i do not accept mediocritoy or below average play (which we have been for the last 14 years).

If you are a fan, you should want W's and not be happy without them. If you are a casual observer than i guess you wouldnt care how well the team actually does.

I however, only care about 2 things: wins and a superbowl win. I have seen neither any time in recent memory. So why again is someone who is ok with losing a fan and one who is not ok with losing not a fan?

:applause: :notworthy :applause: :notworthy :applause:

A truly great post.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

:applause:

Fantastic post.

I am getting sick and tired of these blowhards questioning the fan loyalty of any that dare blaspheme the Lord All Mighty Joe Gibbs.

I'm getting sick of this "what have you done for me lately?" mentality. It's just crazy to talk about a coach that has lead your team to all of their Super Bowls and is the best coach in NFL history because you lost a game.

Like Coach Gibbs said in his book Fourth and One, there are those fans that will scream "go for it" on 4th and 1 and then boo you when you don't get the first down. If you bash Joe Gibbs then you aren't a fan in my book.

[Siven]

:applause:

Fantastic post.

I am getting sick and tired of these blowhards questioning the fan loyalty of any that dare blaspheme the Lord All Mighty Joe Gibbs.

Joe Gibbs is not infallible, people need to realize that nothing has changed since he first left. We are still for the most part consistent losers. I'm tired of losing games and missing out of the playoffs because of his crap management of timeouts, the two minute drill, and our offensive philosophy.

[TSO]

Noone is ok with losing.

That doesn't mean you bash the team and show extreme negativity every opportunity. There's a difference between questioning and accusing/bashing. there's no such thing as a fan without hope. IMO, if you're a fan, you have hope. It's what keeps you ROOTING for your team. The belief that things will go your team's way.

If you refuse to have that belief, and you refuse to cling on to any hope... I'm sorry, your not a fan. It's that simple. You can't root for something that you have hate and disgust for. Something you can't believe in. That's all the OP is saying.

Those of you who do what I'm saying know who you are, and yes, we can tell you that you're not a fan. Keep clinging to your weak arguments about how we shouldn't be ok with losing, and Gibbs II record, and the team's direction... whatever. That doesn't give you the excuse to bash THE TEAM YOU CLAIM TO ROOT FOR. Bashing the Redskins should be left for opposing teams. PERIOD.

Question, and question with hope that things will be solved. Bash, and you're not a fan. You're just someone who happens to know a lot about this team and decided to watch them intently, focus on the wrongs they do, and go off on it. Good job. You're no better than a negative Cowboy-loving ESPN analyst. You're as far from a Redskin fan as they are.

[FunBunch7]

It just so happens that in Gibbs I...the Redskins were one of the, if not the best team when it came to making adjustments at halftime.

I remember the Glory Years like they were yesterday...

1990 at Phoenix, week 4...Cards lead 10-7 at the half...Skins go on 31-0 in the 2nd half and win 38-10

1989 at home to Chicago...14-14 at half...Skins win 38-14

1991 at the Meadowlands...Giants lead 13-0 at half...Skins come back wiht 2 Gary Clark TDs and win 17-13...

The list goes on an on...alot of the 2nd half games ended up being blowouts!

NFC Championship vs Detroit...Skins lead 10-7 at half...go on to win 41-10...

Geez, I could literally go on forever.

I know we wopn't win all the games...but I would feel okay if we lost because we "WENT FOR IT"...instead of this "let's run on 3rd and 8 because I don't want my QB throwing into double coverage" stuff.

[FunBunch7]

It just so happens that in Gibbs I...the Redskins were one of the, if not the best team when it came to making adjustments at halftime.

I remember the Glory Years like they were yesterday...

1990 at Phoenix, week 4...Cards lead 10-7 at the half...Skins go on 31-0 in the 2nd half and win 38-10

1989 at home to Chicago...14-14 at half...Skins win 38-14

1991 at the Meadowlands...Giants lead 13-0 at half...Skins come back wiht 2 Gary Clark TDs and win 17-13...

The list goes on an on...alot of the 2nd half games ended up being blowouts!

NFC Championship vs Detroit...Skins lead 10-7 at half...go on to win 41-10...

Geez, I could literally go on forever.

I know we wopn't win all the games...but I would feel okay if we lost because we "WENT FOR IT"...instead of this "let's run on 3rd and 8 because I don't want my QB throwing into double coverage" stuff.

[StillUnknown]

When you're team consistently makes the same mistakes, no coach is above the questioning that will follow it. While i wish the Joe Gibbs of old were here, thats just doesn't appear to be the case. This is Gibbs 4th year back, and yet the only consistent thing about us is our inconsistency. We keep saying give Gibbs time to get things right, but its already been 3 full years and part of the 4th. As we continue to make the same mistakes as past losing squads, its only natural to question the head coach.......regardless of how much of legend he is.

[tr1]

It's not one game.

It's his entire tenure he has been here.

Show me GibbsII's record, and then try to tell me he is the best coach in the league, or whatever nonsense you are spewing.

Something isn't right. 2-1 isn't much to brag about. We tied MIAMI---who blows---at home. The coin flip goes the other way, and we are sitting here 1-2.

The franchise is not in a healthy position, nor has it been under GibbsII. Something is askew. If I could tell you what it is, I could solve all our problems. But we keep making questionable roster moves and somehow managing to screwup on the field.

You couldn't be any more wrong then to suggest that a fan of the team must find the coach to be without fault. Be a Gibbs fan all you want. I'm a Redskins fan. And if someone isn't part of the solution, then they are part of the problem to me.

Uh, oh...somebody woke up Nancy...

[Guest Rafterman]

Noone is ok with losing.

That doesn't mean you bash the team and show extreme negativity every opportunity. There's a difference between questioning and accusing/bashing. there's no such thing as a fan without hope. IMO, if you're a fan, you have hope. It's what keeps you ROOTING for your team. The belief that things will go your team's way.

If you refuse to have that belief, and you refuse to cling on to any hope... I'm sorry, your not a fan. It's that simple. You can't root for something that you have hate and disgust for. Something you can't believe in. That's all the OP is saying.

Those of you who do what I'm saying know who you are, and yes, we can tell you that you're not a fan. Keep clinging to your weak arguments about how we shouldn't be ok with losing, and Gibbs II record, and the team's direction... whatever. That doesn't give you the excuse to bash THE TEAM YOU CLAIM TO ROOT FOR. Bashing the Redskins should be left for opposing teams. PERIOD.

Question, and question with hope that things will be solved. Bash, and you're not a fan. You're just someone who happens to know a lot about this team and decided to watch them intently, focus on the wrongs they do, and go off on it. Good job. You're no better than a negative Cowboy-loving ESPN analyst. You're as far from a Redskin fan as they are.

Gibbs II is 23-28, that's all that matters.

Same mistakes over and over.

Joe is getting a little long in tooth to be juggling so many hats, maybe he should concentrate on NASCAR full time.

[Guest Rafterman]

I'd love to be able defend Gibbs, but after four years of the same crap I can't.

The game has pasted him by, and he's to stubborn to try to catch up.

[mistertim]

Noone is ok with losing.

That doesn't mean you bash the team and show extreme negativity every opportunity. There's a difference between questioning and accusing/bashing. there's no such thing as a fan without hope. IMO, if you're a fan, you have hope. It's what keeps you ROOTING for your team. The belief that things will go your team's way.

If you refuse to have that belief, and you refuse to cling on to any hope... I'm sorry, your not a fan. It's that simple. You can't root for something that you have hate and disgust for. Something you can't believe in. That's all the OP is saying.

Those of you who do what I'm saying know who you are, and yes, we can tell you that you're not a fan. Keep clinging to your weak arguments about how we shouldn't be ok with losing, and Gibbs II record, and the team's direction... whatever. That doesn't give you the excuse to bash THE TEAM YOU CLAIM TO ROOT FOR. Bashing the Redskins should be left for opposing teams. PERIOD.

Question, and question with hope that things will be solved. Bash, and you're not a fan. You're just someone who happens to know a lot about this team and decided to watch them intently, focus on the wrongs they do, and go off on it. Good job. You're no better than a negative Cowboy-loving ESPN analyst. You're as far from a Redskin fan as they are.

Please supply examples of both acceptable questioning and unacceptable questioning ("bashing"). So if I say "I think Gibbs needs to let Saunders completely control the offense" or "I think there is a persistent problem of conservative playcalling that has been costing us wins for years and if Gibbs is behind it then it needs to be addressed" it is ok as long a I say "I hope this happens" or "I hope it will get fixed and we'll win next week"?

[eljeasel]

Gibbs is a damned hall of fame coach, and hes my coach.

He frustrates me but until hes completely inept (not just chose unpopular tactics) Ill support

[36HAMMER]

i agree whole heartedly. Gibbs is the MAN

[GibbsWon3ForAReason]

It's not one game.

It's his entire tenure he has been here.

Show me GibbsII's record, and then try to tell me he is the best coach in the league, or whatever nonsense you are spewing.

First, let me say I do not agree with people who believe you are not a fan if you question the coach, players, etc. ... However, I believe the tone some people take when criticizing Gibbs goes a bit too far.

As far as Gibbs II goes, I do not think he has done a terrible job nor do I believe we are going in the wrong direction.

Let's do a little review:

2004: The team finished 6-10. It was Joe Gibbs first year back. Do you think we should have won the Super Bowl that year? Do you not think it is reasonable to assume some work needed to be done to clean up the mess left by coaches from the past? He had to implement his system and find good players.

2005: The team finished 10-6 and won a playoff game. Good year.

2006: The team finished 5-11. What the hell happened? We should have been able to build off of 2005 and made a run at the Super Bowl ... right? Well, no. Our star running back got injured and then our strong defense vanished like a fart in the wind. The silver lining was our young, talented QB got some valuable playing time.

2007: The team is 2-1.

- We beat the Dolphins. Unlike the Cowboys, who were given 5 gifts (turnovers), we beat the Dolphins despite having more turnovers and we ran the ball down their throat.

- We beat the Eagles in THEIR house. A great win. Campbell had a chance to put the game away, but he overthrew a wide open Moss on a deep pass.

- We lost to the NY Giants at home. There is no denying it ... this loss sucked. We had the lead and blew the game.

If we are being fair, Gibbs II has had one bad year (2006). One bad apple don't ruin the whole bunch ... or whatever the lyrics are to that song.

The team is not in a healthy position???

- On offense we have a young quarterback with great potential, who is still in the learning and growing pains stage. We have two talented running backs. We have a great tight end that we just locked up for years. Moss is a good receiver that can make big plays. Randle El is showing he is a capable WR. We do need a 3rd WR and hoepfully bringing in all these guys will create good competition and someone will emerge.

- On defense we have a killer combo at the safety positions. McIntosh, Blades, Montgomery, Golston, and Carter are young and seem to have bright futures. Rogers does need to step up. We do need a LDE.

I think we have many pieces to the puzzle, we just need to have a little more patience and let the coaches put it together.

[MikeBass]

I do not think that it is lack of loyalty to the the team nor the coaches. I am a HUGE Gibbs/ Saunders/ Williams supporter and have backed there offensive play calling in another thread BUT in looking at the calls that were made on http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29240&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2007&week=REG3, it does not look like they made the correct calls in the second half.

Everyone makes mistakes and IMO I think that the coaches made huge mistakes, offensively, in their play caliing. Again IMO, Campbell do not throw 34 passes while Portis has only 14 carries.

[skinsn24]

I'm getting sick of this "what have you done for me lately?" mentality. It's just crazy to talk about a coach that has lead your team to all of their Super Bowls and is the best coach in NFL history because you lost a game.

Like Coach Gibbs said in his book Fourth and One, there are those fans that will scream "go for it" on 4th and 1 and then boo you when you don't get the first down. If you bash Joe Gibbs then you aren't a fan in my book.

What you dont understand is obvious. You dont understand we didnt just lose one game. We have had 2 playoffs appearences going 2-2 in those playoffs since Gibbs I. We have less wins than the bills over the last 5 or so years. We are in the bottom 7 in the league in the last 14 years.

This is not 1 game.

How can you be sick of "what have you done for me lately" do you really think that having last made a conference championship in 91 makes everything gravy?

Hell this hasnt been a latley situation though, it has been roughly 14 years of almost nothing but average to below average play. What about this do you not understand?

Noone is ok with losing.

That doesn't mean you bash the team and show extreme negativity every opportunity. There's a difference between questioning and accusing/bashing. there's no such thing as a fan without hope. IMO, if you're a fan, you have hope. It's what keeps you ROOTING for your team. The belief that things will go your team's way.

If you refuse to have that belief, and you refuse to cling on to any hope... I'm sorry, your not a fan. It's that simple. You can't root for something that you have hate and disgust for. Something you can't believe in. That's all the OP is saying.

Those of you who do what I'm saying know who you are, and yes, we can tell you that you're not a fan. Keep clinging to your weak arguments about how we shouldn't be ok with losing, and Gibbs II record, and the team's direction... whatever. That doesn't give you the excuse to bash THE TEAM YOU CLAIM TO ROOT FOR. Bashing the Redskins should be left for opposing teams. PERIOD.

Question, and question with hope that things will be solved. Bash, and you're not a fan. You're just someone who happens to know a lot about this team and decided to watch them intently, focus on the wrongs they do, and go off on it. Good job. You're no better than a negative Cowboy-loving ESPN analyst. You're as far from a Redskin fan as they are.

No this post is far from the truth. I can argue on many different fronts.

First on the defitionition of a fan. I will use only real dictionaries to define the term.

Fan short for Fanatic:

American Heritage: n. A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.

-our cause is winning, we wants win, nothing else. We have extreme enthusiasm for a win, if we dont get it, it only follows that we get upset.

Kernerman English Dictionary: a person who is (too) enthusiastic about something

--we are too enthusiastic about winning, can you blame us?

We do root for this team. I will tell you time and time again to watch a game with me or any other person you are attempting to call out here. I bet you everything I am louder and prouder during a game than you are.

The fact that I am able to root for my team during the game with such a passion does NOT mean i am not able to step back from the game afterwards and realize that in the last 14+ years the only consistant thing has been dissapointment.

I think we all have hope and that is why we all root so hard during games. You make an empty claim that we dont have hope, as we know that we do, but we also possess smarts and are able to realize when things are not going well.

Now i will argue by analogy.

If you have a kid or younger brother or something, you root for him to do well. You want that little trooper to get good grades and excel in school. Yet he comes home with straight Fs. Surely you do not say "its ok buddy, i know you'll get it together" I would hope that you look for the problem and do everyhting you can to fix it or voice your opinion on how it should be fixed.

Thus when the skins consistantly lose, people voice their discontent, not because they are not fans, but because they ARE fans.

You will only understand these arguement if you are NOT ok with consistnatly losing.

The redskins have for some extended period of time tried to get better but have failed miserably time and time again. For that they deserve to be critisied.---fact.

When things get turned around and winning is what happens on a consistant basis, things will change, but when winning is the anomoly (sp) the critisim is more than deserved.

[CM916]

We need to go 16-0 three straight seasons and somehow come out of that with five more Lombardis. I think a lot of it is pent up rage and frustration due to the last 15 years.

[RODAN1054]

I see very little bashing personally. I see plenty of questioning, and I think it's healthy. This is a great forum to cathartically dispell, agree and/or share in any and all things Redskins. This is the place to be and it would be quite boring if we all agreed on everything. Discourse is good and I think Gibbs himself would be the first one to tell you the same.

Well I'd hate to see bashing if you dont call what I have read bashing. I think it is about time this post came up. It's a shame it didn't come up earlier in the week.FANS THINK THEY ALWAYS KNOW MORE THAN THEIR COACH,If they do than why are THEY not coaching in the NFL,,or for that fact why are they not coaching anywhere. Let our coaches coach,please

[RODAN1054]

It's not one game.

It's his entire tenure he has been here.

Show me GibbsII's record, and then try to tell me he is the best coach in the league, or whatever nonsense you are spewing.

Something isn't right. 2-1 isn't much to brag about. We tied MIAMI---who blows---at home. The coin flip goes the other way, and we are sitting here 1-2.

The franchise is not in a healthy position, nor has it been under GibbsII. Something is askew. If I could tell you what it is, I could solve all our problems. But we keep making questionable roster moves and somehow managing to screwup on the field.

You couldn't be any more wrong then to suggest that a fan of the team must find the coach to be without fault. Be a Gibbs fan all you want. I'm a Redskins fan. And if someone isn't part of the solution, then they are part of the problem to me.

Who says were on the wrong road. I see a lot of young talent on this team. Have forgotton who brought this talent here,Gibbs thats who, You crittics need to stick to whatever proffession your good at, evidently football is not your strong suit

[RODAN1054]

Sure, but most of that is just knee-jerk emotional stuff I think. I'm guilty of that on occasion too. Gibbs understands this also. He knows the questions will continue until they start winning again consistently and he said as much. Nobody can take away your faith in the man and at the end of the day that's all that matters.

HEY PEOPLE, what is winningconsitently, they are winning right now 2-1 2-1 2-1 that means we won twice as many as we have lost duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

What you dont understand is obvious. You dont understand we didnt just lose one game. We have had 2 playoffs appearences going 2-2 in those playoffs since Gibbs I. We have less wins than the bills over the last 5 or so years. We are in the bottom 7 in the league in the last 14 years.

This is not 1 game.

How can you be sick of "what have you done for me lately" do you really think that having last made a conference championship in 91 makes everything gravy?

Hell this hasnt been a latley situation though, it has been roughly 14 years of almost nothing but average to below average play. What about this do you not understand?

Well from 92 until now how many seasons has Coach Gibbs coached? 10? 15? No, it's been a 3 year drought for Coach Gibbs. The last time he won a Super Bowl was only 3 of his seasons ago.

I'm sick of this "what have you done for me lately?" mentality because Joe Gibbs has had 3 years to turn a bad franchise into a championship contender. In his first 3 years, with hardly any draft picks, a below average QB and hardly any cap room he took us to the playoffs and almost the NFC Championship game.

Again, Joe Gibbs has only gone 3 years without a Super Bowl victory. If you criticize him then you raise the question "How many times does he have to prove to everyone out there that he is a better football coach then the people sitting at home that supposedly know everything?" Stop ragging on the best coach of all-time because nobody could do it better under the circumstances.