[S.S.F. | Nero] Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 In wake of the recent NBA gambling scandal, I've been thinking about whether or not other sports officials, specifically NFL officials, are on the take. For years I have been a closet conspiracy theorist that something "just wasn't right" with regards to the officiating in the NFL. As a bit of context, I am a former professional baseball umpire having worked in the minor leagues for 3 years. In every locker room that I ever dressed in, there were signs posted prohibiting all game personnel from gambling on baseball. These same "warning" signs are posted in Major League ballparks as well. Whether or not EVERYONE adheres to the "posted" policies, is a completely different question. There is one play that illustrates my theory more than any other I have ever seen. It was 2004 and the Green Bay Packers were visiting at FedEx Field. I'm sure you all remember the play I'm going to refer to. Brunell hits Portis over the middle on a dumpoff (shocker), but CP scampered 40+ yards for the go ahead TD in the closing minutes of the game. But wait, there was a flag.....?.........really....?.... Officials called James Thrash for illegal motion, erasing the score, and setting up Brunell to throw a lethal INT on the very next play. The game, as was our season, was shot. I, like many of you, was miffed at the call and couldn't believe it even after seeing multiple replays. But then, I saw about a 1 second long segment of replay that still boggles my mind to this day. I'm hoping that someone here can corroborate what I saw. During the replay that showed the field from the endzone view we see Clinton making moves and running down the field. He is being actively pursued by Packer defenders but makes at least 2 guys miss and outruns at least 2 others. No flags. We see Clinton reaching the 15-yardline, the 10, 5, still no flags....not until Clinton reached about the 3-yardline did you get a very brief glimpse of the Referee (yes, the head official) reaching into his pocket and throwing the flag onto the ground. I was so shocked that I ran the TiVo back and watched the replay again. You can see the official watching Clinton's entire run. He waits until Clinton was at the 3-yardline to reach into his pocket and signal a penalty that apparently occurred at the snap of the ball. Remember, the reception and subsequent run went for over 40 yards. The fastest athletes on the planet run the 40-yard dash in just over 4 seconds, and that's without pads, helmets, or while holding a football. Suffice to say, it likely took well over 7 or 8 seconds from the time the ball was snapped, until Clinton apparently scored. If I hadn't seen the official actually watching Clinton dodge defenders and make moves, running down the field, and THEN as he was about to score, reach into his pocket and pull out a flag, then I wouldn't believe it. It was almost as if he saw that CP was going to score and either made up a penalty or decided that what he had seen at the snap (and therefore SHOULD have thrown a flag for) really WAS enough for a flag. Either way it stunk then, and it stinks now. It has made me wonder if officials were affecting the outcome of NFL games and not until the breaking of the NBA story did I really give it any recent serious thought. What do you guys think? Are NFL Officials on the take? If ANYONE has the tape of that game, watch it. Fast-forward to the end and you'll see what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 The play in and of itself tells you nothing. What was the point spread or the over/under? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 I still remember that PHANTOM flag. That was horse****. If we found out in 20 years that there were refs in the NFL that were shaving points, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySkin21 Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 i dont even remember that play, but we have had a ton of BS calls against us in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 i dont even remember that play, but we have had a ton of BS calls against us in the past. Such as the Mike Alscott two-point convert. One of the refs must have had money on the bucs! :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 I remember that one clear as day... and yeah, it was really dodgy. However, I've always got the distinct impression that - for the most part - NFL officiating is plagued much moreso by incompetence than by favoritism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwback37 Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 i dont even remember that play, but we have had a ton of BS calls against us in the past. Amen to that. Anybody remember that game vs. the Giants a few years ago when Tiki was stretching for a first down... fumbled the ball.. the Skinz recovered.. right? Not so fast.. the officials ruled it "First Down Giants". The skinz challenged that he fumbled (which the replays showed) but the non call of a fumble wasn't challengable, so all we could do was challenge the spot of the ball... which was overturned. So, the refs made 2 horrible calls on the same play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Here we go. October 31, 2004 With 2 minutes to go, score is: Green Bay 20 Washington 14 Spread, Packers -2 Over Under 40.5 The Redskins TD went have hurt anyone who had the Packers. However, there is a problem here in that the Packers scored another TD after the call. So, the game went Over regardless of the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Broncos/Redskins a few years ago in the rain. Safety taken away by that stupid ass tuck rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Such as the Mike Alscott two-point convert. One of the refs must have had money on the bucs! :mad: The Skins were a 1 point favorite in that game. The two-pointer resulted in a tie with the spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill1952 Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 I too have always been a closet conspiracy theorist, but this phantom flag was nothing like the tackles being put on some of our defensive linemen last year without flags being thrown. I remember commenting on them after the game last year, but what can you do? One can only hope the shakeout from the NBA can lead to better scrutiny of the game by the league office AFTER a game has played. Look for patterns, like one referee calling the majority of penalties in a game or a lopsided penalty yardage count or, like you here, observing a referee delay until a score occurs to throw a flag. On every play you could probably find a hold or an unsportsmanlike conduct or an illegal hit to the face. It's hard, during the game, to catch someone cheating in this manner. But there needs to be greater scrutiny of the play b the league office after the game, looking to see how it affected the over/under or the spread. That part cannot be easily hidden. A review of last year's games or games in which the coaches notified the NFL officiating crews about extremely poor, game changing penalties, should be conducted by the league to ensure the integrity of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 The Skins were a 1 point favorite in that game. The two-pointer resulted in a tie with the spread. That doesn't make sense to me... I would understand if it was a tie in the event that the Bucs were a 1 point favorite. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Broncos/Redskins a few years ago in the rain. Safety taken away by that stupid ass tuck rule. Spread was Broncos -6.5. The Skins covered with or without the call. The game was already safely over at that point as well. Really really doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[S.S.F. | Nero] Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 However' date=' there is a problem here in that the Packers scored another TD after the call. So, the game went Over regardless of the call.[/quote'] True, but was that Referee attempting to affect the outcome of the game by throwing an aggregiously late penalty flag on the Portis no-TD? Forget the spreads folks...it all comes down to: did the official let outside influences affect when, where, or why he made a particular ruling during the game? It's especially odd given the point of the game that it happened (final minutes, Skins go ahead, at home, oops....gotta stop this.......flag) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAFGA Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 I remember that one clear as day... and yeah, it was really dodgy. However, I've always got the distinct impression that - for the most part - NFL officiating is plagued much moreso by incompetence than by favoritism. Considering that NFL officials are part-time and have other gigs in the offseason, I would lean towards incompetence. That being said, since they probably don't make as much money as their counterparts in the NBA and MLB, I could see a referee being tempted in a situation that went down in the NBA. However, there are way more officials in a game than in the other sports, so the checks and balances is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_33 Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Man....If there is ever to be a game to be suspicious about as far as "Conspiracy Theory" goes,it has to be the Raiders vs Patriots "Tuck Rule" Playoff game... Under any other circumstances do the Raiders recover that ball as it would NEVER EVER be called an incomplete pass and they run out what little time left (:20 sec) or something) and the Raiders win and the Patriots would remain the same "Patriots" as we have all known them to be...LOSERS! IMO...?It is the worst call in the history of the NFL!Period...! And of course....That was the year we were attacked by terrorists...9/11 So having money on the Patriots could have been big for the big boys in our Country... I would be shocked if there isn't nor never has been bad officiating,due to games being fixed....Just too many bad people out there for there not too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 That doesn't make sense to me...I would understand if it was a tie in the event that the Bucs were a 1 point favorite. Am I missing something? No, I am tired. So, at 35-34, it was a tie. At 36-35, it was a TB win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 I think it is entirely possible an NFL game has been fixed. However, I doubt that any game has been fixed because of a call with 2 minutes left in the game. You fix games in the first half where you can set the tone. Anyone waiting for a "tuck rule" moment is just setting themselves up to be murdered by a guy named Vinny. Ok...the tuck rule call is made. What happens if the Pats don't score on that drive? I think it would be awfully hard to fix an NFL game without a minimum of two refs on the take. And trust me. I have two cousins who are bookies. I think about these things. I think the easiest game to fix would be an MLB game for two reasons: 1. It's just a moneyline bet most of the time. I want team A to win. Make it happen. 2. It would be incredibly easy for a home plate umpire to cause a team to lose. Think the Eric Gregg game in '97. Some gambler hung himself after that fiasco. I think the NBA would be fairly easy to fix in terms of over/under with a crooked ref. I don't think you could get one team to win, however. I think the NFL would be relatively difficult to fix. There are over 30 bodies on the field at any given time. Too much is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Man....If there is ever to be a game to be suspicious about as far as "Conspiracy Theory" goes,it has to be the Raiders vs Patriots "Tuck Rule" Playoff game...Under any other circumstances do the Raiders recover that ball as it would NEVER EVER be called an incomplete pass and they run out what little time left (:20 sec) or something) and the Raiders win and the Patriots would remain the same "Patriots" as we have all known them to be...LOSERS! IMO...?It is the worst call in the history of the NFL!Period...! And of course....That was the year we were attacked by terrorists...9/11 So having money on the Patriots could have been big for the big boys in our Country... I would be shocked if there isn't nor never has been bad officiating,due to games being fixed....Just too many bad people out there for there not too!! This is the one that really alerted me. They friggin made an entirely new rule for the Patriots to win. That alone was enough for me. There definitely is some going ons that most of us here would hate to know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 ']True' date=' but was that Referee attempting to affect the outcome of the game by throwing an aggregiously late penalty flag on the Portis no-TD?Forget the spreads folks...it all comes down to: did the official let outside influences affect when, where, or why he made a particular ruling during the game? It's especially odd given the point of the game that it happened (final minutes, Skins go ahead, at home, oops....gotta stop this.......flag)[/quote'] Maybe. I just don't think the best time to do that would be the last two minutes. If I was fixing a game, the first half would look like that second Cowboys game in 2005. It would be a rout in the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 This is the one that really alerted me. They friggin made an entirely new rule for the Patriots to win. That alone was enough for me. There definitely is some going ons that most of us here would hate to know about. Wasn't a new rule.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveWarrior Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Wasn't a new rule.... Maybe not new' date=' but find another time a rarely used penalty has been dusted off and used, especially in a close playoff game. The sad fact is, had the Raiders been awarded the ball, they would have won the game. Instead, it laid the foundation for the Patriots' dynasty we've had to suffer through. Unfortunately, the way the game is now, the refs are often the focal point of the games, rather than being in the periphery and letting the teams and the on-field action decide the games. I'm tired of watching games be decided on the outcome of a referee huddle at mid-field which takes over two minutes. Every year it seems like it's getting worse. It's especially tough in my house, where there is a Redskin fan and a Raider fan, two of the teams who seem to most often suffer at the flags of the officials. Lastly, I call for replay to be available on [b']all[/b] controversial plays. No more of this "penalties can't be reviewed" nonsense. If the call on the field is in question, it should be reviewed in the interest of getting it right, rather than worrying about the egos of the refs who don't want to get shown as having made the wrong call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySkin21 Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Such as the Mike Alscott two-point convert. One of the refs must have had money on the bucs! :mad: yeahhhh that was bullcrap, we could have been 11-5 that year and that really HONESTLY should of been our record but they straiht up gave them that 2 point conversion and that was it for us.. that call really pissed me off because i like alstott, but he didn't get through our line that time. sorry... and who knows what could of happend from, the outcome of that game.. I know we got the best of them that year in the play-offs but still... that's the **** im talking about that us as skins fan have to deal with... it tears my heart and kicks it on the floor, I just want the refs to call the penaltys we commit but stop tryin to like, go out of your way to make bogus calls and given other team free points and I could go on and on. Give us a fair season in calls and I will be happy. We have actually done a lot better a few seasons if it wasnt for bogus ref calls.. that anyone else would look at and you'd think it'd be a common sense call, but of course if its against the redskins, we get penalized for stuff we dont even commit, I JUST WANT FAIRNESS AND NO CHEAP **** DURING THE SEASON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTillIDie Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 It is extremely plausible that there have been such instances in the NFL. A phantom holding call (or non-call) that kills a drive is almost foolproof. And with the pass interference laws the way that they are, referees can almost guarantee that a team will score by giving them a first down at the 1 yard line. This NBA scandal forever now will cause NFL fans to wonder/believe after a phantom call against their team that there is corruption in the refereeing system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySkin21 Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 you think this nba **** has just started?? nooooo refs know they hold the outcome of the game, with other such big influences around refs they are swayyed due to who knows what, but there is no way all refs cant be bias somewhat, whether they dont like a certain player or a certain team.. but they need to update the refs or some****.. let some refs make calls during agame and make the refs take poligraph test' before they start reffing, whether they ar ebis towards another team or you could ask them all kinds of situational questions and then weed out the refs that lie.. for example take a ref that maybe has some issues of calling certain bogus calls or whatever, well make that ref tak a polygraph and then ask him questions that would either relieve him from his duties as a ref. or if he calls the game fair, then he shouldnt have anything to worry about.. i know they are full-proof but they are pretty darn accurate and i'd like to find out the truth behind some of these phantom flags and phanton calls and **** like thiat... this has been an ongoing issue for a while, i have a few friends who think the NFL is rigged.. i dont think so poersonally but i think the refs know they hold the game in their hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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