Art Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 From Tre: "We need to jell," veteran guard Tre Johnson said. "Everybody's running around like 53 guys. There's not a lot of cohesiveness. Man for man, I'm not overly impressed with the Eagles, but they play very well together. That says a lot more than getting 30 all-stars." That's EXACTLY right. Man for man, the Eagles have nothing exceptional. They are just a very good team and they understand their jobs and they play on instinct rather than thought and that's the difference. Last year we were there with the Eagles because we streamlined the systems on both sides of the ball so that we could just play the game and not have to think about every responsibility. Now, we look like we are still so very unsure, especially on defense where we often are pointing and screaming right up until the ball is snapped. You take this same team without a single change and JUST let it do the same stuff for another offseason and we'll be a better group. We need time to learn how to play well together. Changes are in the making, of course, but, we need to keep the bulk of things together and just grow into a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Art You take this same team without a single change and JUST let it do the same stuff for another offseason and we'll be a better group. We need time to learn how to play well together. Changes are in the making, of course, but, we need to keep the bulk of things together and just grow into a team. Hopefully one day soon Snyder will realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsThug Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Hmmm... the team concept. Perhaps if DANNY had ever played any team sports in school he might realize how important it is. Well, here's to hoping he figures it out in my lifetime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Art You take this same team without a single change and JUST let it do the same stuff for another offseason and we'll be a better group. We need time to learn how to play well together. Changes are in the making, of course, but, we need to keep the bulk of things together and just grow into a team. i agree 100% with the post, with a small exception for this part... as long as we keep the "bulk" of things together, fine... but a few changes need to be made... Terrell has been with this team too many years and i've seen NO improvement... he gets beat constantly... i say we keep one of our 2 safeties, and i'd replace Terrell... Bruce Smith can stay, but as long as he doesn't start... he's a good 3rd down DE, but we need more speed as far as a pass rush... and a DT... Big Daddy is gone, so that's a position we need to worry about... other than that, i don't mind if everyone else stays and we develop some "cohesiveness"... in fact, i'd love it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 There will always be a handful of changes. Where we need to get is where we're keeping our a great high percentage of our starters from one year over the next. We need to get to the point where we're turning over 13-15 people a year at most rather than 30+ as we've done the last two years. That's what we need to do. Here's a quote from Trotter: "My wife didn't even want to be around me, I was getting so upset," Trotter said. "It's hard to see what's going on when you're playing because there seems like a whole lot of chaos and everything's going on, but I could really see what Marvin has been trying to tell us all season." What that means, basically, is watching it on TV where he can see the whole formation he is seeing the principles of Marvin Lewis' defense. He sees that when certain keys are there people are supposed to respond. But, on the field, players are obviously only seeing part of the picture and not always seeing the same part and that means there's a lot of chaos and blown assignments. This can ONLY be repaired with time. I'd like Lewis to go and the system to change, but, we need time in it to make it work so I don't really care if he returns because it'll make us better just by having the same thing from Day 1 again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Great Quote. I've been saying this over and over, It doesn't matter how many pro bowlers the Skins have. The Team and Team play is far more important. I have openly questioned wether "star" players such as Champ and LaVar have it in them to be team players. Sure they are hugely talented, but they have made many comments and such that are more centered upon individual acheivements. Before you respond with "youre crazy" or "champ and LaVar are probowlers".... read Tre's comments again.... and think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPSkins Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Don't get me wrong...I'm no Terrell fan, nor am I a fan of any of our safeties, but we give Lavar slack for being in 3 different defenses in 3 years, yet we chastise our safeties without the same excuse. I'm not saying Terrell, or Shade or any guy we've had or have playing safety are not replaceable or should or should not be replaced, but these guys spend a lot of time deciding where they should be going, looking too long at the QB etc. and not moving on instinct. Maybe, just maybe, given these guys some time to learn to play on instinct, they wont suck so bad. Bring in new guys and it's back to a learning curve. I agree with Art. Let keep the team basically intact, build from within and draft. Stay away from every free agent that may or may not work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by MarkPSkins Don't get me wrong...I'm no Terrell fan, nor am I a fan of any of our safeties, but we give Lavar slack for being in 3 different defenses in 3 years, yet we chastise our safeties without the same excuse. i actually like David Terrell... i never thought Marty should have moved him to safety... Terrell is a solid nickel/dime corner and that's where he should play... but after playing safety and NOT getting better, then it's time for a change... the difference with Terrell and Arrington is simple: LaVar has improved and is a playmaker... in addition, Arrington was a 1st round draft pick we knew could play... Terrell was an experiment and had never proven to be a capable safety... and, obviously, that experiment has failed, IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Art Here's a quote from Trotter: "My wife didn't even want to be around me, I was getting so upset," Trotter said. "It's hard to see what's going on when you're playing because there seems like a whole lot of chaos and everything's going on, but I could really see what Marvin has been trying to tell us all season." In this day and age, most NFL teams film their games. Don't the Redskins? This is a total cop-out or poor coaching. You can see a lot more on NFL game films than you can on TV. Was Trotter asleep at all the film sessions? He should have seen this by the end of preseason and learned. NFL football is a complicated game, but it remains only a game. It's not rocket science, so to speak. Every player, whether on offense or defense or special teams has their assignment. Their responsibility is to do it within the given scheme. If the play blows up, then they have to trust their skills as athletes to take over. This is true from Pop Warner on up. It isn't a new concept. If this is the attitude of the defense, then you all have a right to be completely PO'ed at the players and coaching. Best of luck against Texas the next two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 We need to keep Terrell for Special Teams, especially if we can't get Kato back. Last year Herr Schotferbrains, to his credit (I can't believe I just said that), went out looking for guys to perform on ST. This year we've regressed to the ol' LeCharls/Vinny attitude of throwing anybody still left on the roster there. Terrell isn't good enough to get time on D, but if he comes in at vet min, he should be re-signed because he's been one of our best special teams tacklers over the last couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I still feel that the bottomline is that if players cannot be team players, regardless of who they are, they should be gone. If they can grasp the team concept and play hard, than great, more power to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 In this day and age, most NFL teams film their games. Don't the Redskins? This is a total cop-out or poor coaching. that was exactly what i thought when i read trotter's quote. hell, if i can see what the assignments are (at least basically), the players that get paid mad money should be able to see it. if they can't see it, it is the coaches' responsibility to force them to learn the system. the system itself may be flawed, but that is not a legit reason for the players to be playing with their heads in the asses in week 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 Code, You are attaining ASF blind stupidity level on the issue of Arrington and Champ. Both are immensely coachable players. Arrington has done whatever he's been asked for three years. Champ has been able to do things in any defense he's been asked to be in. After the Rams game he explained he carried the ball a certain way and that is just him. You haven't seen that since. My guess is, that wasn't just him. Blazers, What does film have to do with it? Trotter was saying that when he's watching the game, whether on television or from a box, as McNabb did, he can see the whole field on every play. And, I'm absolutely certain the team sees the same thing in the film room. What Trotter was saying is that watching the games without being in there, you can see all the keys that SHOULD be made where on the field it's chaos because each guy has four reads he can make and if all 11 don't make the same judgement on the same play, it is a problem. Trotter seemed to be pretty square here. Watching it now, he can see on any given play what everyone is supposed to be doing. Only it's in real time. He's watching the game and he's probably screaming, "NO, WHY DID YOU DO THAT LAVAR." On the field he and Lavar and others would perhaps not see all the keys the way you can when you are removed from it. It's like when Ramsey got in against the Giants and he said he had an advantage because he saw what the Giants were doing in terms of coverage and pass rush before he got in there so he was ready to go when he did. Does this mean he didn't watch film? Or does this mean that when you are in the heat of battle you don't always get to see the entire picture, but when you step back and watch for the entire picture live, it sometimes makes sense? Or are you just trying to be dense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Art What does film have to do with it? Trotter was saying that when he's watching the game, whether on television or from a box, as McNabb did, he can see the whole field on every play. And, I'm absolutely certain the team sees the same thing in the film room. What Trotter was saying is that watching the games without being in there, you can see all the keys that SHOULD be made where on the field it's chaos because each guy has four reads he can make and if all 11 don't make the same judgement on the same play, it is a problem. Trotter seemed to be pretty square here. Watching it now, he can see on any given play what everyone is supposed to be doing. Only it's in real time. He's watching the game and he's probably screaming, "NO, WHY DID YOU DO THAT LAVAR." On the field he and Lavar and others would perhaps not see all the keys the way you can when you are removed from it. It's like when Ramsey got in against the Giants and he said he had an advantage because he saw what the Giants were doing in terms of coverage and pass rush before he got in there so he was ready to go when he did. Does this mean he didn't watch film? Or does this mean that when you are in the heat of battle you don't always get to see the entire picture, but when you step back and watch for the entire picture live, it sometimes makes sense? Or are you just trying to be dense? Art, I have not read Trotter's complete quote and have taken it out of the context you provided. Football players are taught assignments from Pop Warner on up. Obviously, the assignments get more complex for each level that is played. The players get used to seeing only their part of the field, their reads and keys. Otherwise, it is complete chaos when they try to see the big picture while playing the game. At some point, reacting to changing circumstances beyond one's assignments are necessary, but free-lancing is never permitted when playing organized football. There are too many variables to consider. Players do their assignments or are replaced by someone who will. The quote you provided seems to say that Trotter finally saw the overall intent of the defense from watching TV. On Week 15. Trotter: "...but I could really see what Marvin has been trying to tell us all season." I guess the light bulb finally lit. Good NFL film sessions are designed so each player can see individual and team mistakes. Mini-camps and pre-season establish the trust between the coaches and players and between the players themselves that everyone is on the same page so that each player can perform within the system. If it has taken Trotter the entire pre-season and 15 weeks of the regular season to finally "see what Marvin has been trying to tell us all season" than either the defense rebelled and ignored Lewis or Lewis was coaching poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 or that some people were trying so hard they just couldn't see it. Its like losing your keys and just not being able to find them. You look and look forever and then sit down or leave for awhile....clear your head and come back....BAM...there they are...on the counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 good analogy bufford:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Bufford or that some people were trying so hard they just couldn't see it. Its like losing your keys and just not being able to find them. You look and look forever and then sit down or leave for awhile....clear your head and come back....BAM...there they are...on the counter. Perfect analogy! Sometimes you miss the forest for the trees, etc. It certainly takes awhile to learn all the details of an entire pro defense. The Redskins can only improve when everyone is on the same page. Losing Lewis will hurt in the short term, but if the overall structure and design remains the same, another DC will be able to utilize the players to their complete ability. That's when the 'skins will have a formidable defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 But from what I saw, the defensive players were rarely positioned where they could not make the play, they missed the tackle (the worst was Owens TD -- we had three of four guys in his face and had his receiver covered), timed their leap wrong (for example, Smoot gave up the first TD against the 'Girls but was in perfect position to knock the pass down) or stare at each other like someone else should make the play (remember all the white jersies around several of the Iggs batted passes, nary a one intercepted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I think I speak for most people here when I say "I hope our next DC comes from the current staff." That way the terms stay the same, the overall idea stays the same and the only things that change are the specific plays that are being called and maybe a slightly different style like more attacking which a DC could change from year to year even if he did stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Bufford I think I speak for most people here when I say "I hope our next DC comes from the current staff." you speak for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by Art Arrington has done whatever he's been asked for three years. Has anyone asked him to wrap up? As a Cowboy's fan, I also hope the Skins keep this team together.:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 Perhaps Nerm. He just doesn't have a hand to use in so doing, or were you not aware of the fact he can't do much with his hands right now? As for keeping the team mostly together, you may wish upon a star that it benefits you, but, the most distance we can place between our two teams is for us to do absolutely nothing. You must make vast changes just to attempt to change where you are. You've had the incredible benefit of keeping your team together under the same coaching staff. You've had the amazing benefit of signing everyone on your own team back of any importance. Basically, we've gotten where we are today by doing too much. As sad as that is, at least I am not a Cowboy fan realizing you are where you are today by doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by Art Perhaps Nerm. He just doesn't have a hand to use in so doing, or were you not aware of the fact he can't do much with his hands right now? i bet Nerd can do a lot with his hands though... :jerkoff: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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