Most overrated/underrated Redskin

[Taylorfan2179]

Overrated: Chris Samuels...good player but he's deserved to go to 4 pro bowls as much as I've deserved it.

Im happy someone said it, samuels has not been pro bowl

[ceviker]

Over: Jansen

Under: Casey Rabach

[Santana Clause]

I think almost everyone on this board is knowledgable enough to pretty much have players rated at about where they should be. The only time I truly was incredulous was 2005 when there was a blue state/ red state divide on the merits of Brunell as a viable quarterback for a contender. The excuses were available because of all the ancillary requirements that go into playing qb, i.e. system, talent around him, protection, smart decisions vs. not making plays.

I, of course, was on the "this guy is terrible how can you not see it" side and it is the only time I can remember there being so much disagreement amongst ES'ers. Also everyone I knew who was a fan not on ES hated Brunell, this was the only place I found supporters.

[jrockster21]

Overrated: Sean Taylor

Underrated: Casey Rabach

Damn...lots of ST haters on here. Also, Moss was battling a hammy last year, which accounts for his drop in production.

Overrated: Springs. Dude has barely seen the field the past two seasons, and for the most part has to be close to 100% to be effective.

Underrated: Randle-El. Kid has the quicks and shiftiness to do some major damage on offense. This is why Saunders gave him the ball so much - its obvious the type of weapon he is. Once Al figures out to use him effectively, its gonna be lights out.

[Siven]

say what you will but you know those three really big trophies with footballs on them that they show at the press conferences?? well they gives those to the best team in footbalkl once a year and have only given them out about 41 times...and Joe Gibbs is personally responsible for winning all three of the ones the redskins have..and he came very close to a fourth...with three different QB's...and only one HoF player to date from those teams...and the way offensive football is played changed because of his innovations and the way defensive football is played has changed to counter his innovations and that is why they put his head in the Hall Of Fame....and he deserves it!!!!

I'm not trashing anything hes done in his past, I'm talking about Gibbs 2.0. Sorry, but everyone was talking superbowl when he came back, and just last year it was Almightly Gibbs is gonna lead us to the promised land. One HoF player is because the media hates the Skins for one reason or another. His task was to set this franchise straight, and to become a perennial playoff contender. So far, he has squandered vital draft picks that allow you to build a champion from the foundation up, he has not changed the culture of bringing in high priced old veterans, and has not brought in the front office leadership that we need. I give him credit for bringing in Jason Campbell, Portis, Moss, Griffin, Washington etc etc, but he hasn't done what he promised. He has not restored the glory of the Washington Redskins. Evidence: we are still one of the jokes of the NFL.

[onedrop]

I'm not trashing anything hes done in his past, I'm talking about Gibbs 2.0. Sorry, but everyone was talking superbowl when he came back, and just last year it was Almightly Gibbs is gonna lead us to the promised land. One HoF player is because the media hates the Skins for one reason or another. His task was to set this franchise straight, and to become a perennial playoff contender. So far, he has squandered vital draft picks that allow you to build a champion from the foundation up, he has not changed the culture of bringing in high priced old veterans, and has not brought in the front office leadership that we need. I give him credit for bringing in Jason Campbell, Portis, Moss, Griffin, Washington etc etc, but he hasn't done what he promised. He has not restored the glory of the Washington Redskins. Evidence: we are still one of the jokes of the NFL.

uhhhh have you been paying attention this offseason?

first year wasnt Gibbs team

second year = playoffs

third year, well it sucked

fourth year, upcoming. THIS is the year weve been waiting for.

not even the mighty Joe J. Gibbs can take a franchise that was as screwed up as we were for as long as we were and flip it around to constant contender instantly. 2007 is the year it all comes together. i predict this year will be the year we wanted last year to be.

[TheU2689]

Overrated Joe Gibbs

Underrated Clinton Portis, people don't seem to realise what this guy means to the Redskins.

Joe Gibbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and the thread starter Santana Moss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

I cant believe what im seeing here.

Overrated : Joe Salavea

Underrated : Pierson Prielou(spelling:doh: )

[Siven]

uhhhh have you been paying attention this offseason?

first year wasnt Gibbs team

second year = playoffs

third year, well it sucked

fourth year, upcoming. THIS is the year weve been waiting for.

not even the mighty Joe J. Gibbs can take a franchise that was as screwed up as we were for as long as we were and flip it around to constant contender instantly. 2007 is the year it all comes together. i predict this year will be the year we wanted last year to be.

What do you mean it wasn't his team in 04? He got his man in Gregg Williams, he got Portis, Brunell. He made changes as he saw fit, it wasn't like he had no draft picks. The man has consistently gone out and got the players he wants, it's been his team from the get-go. yes he had some pieces in place, but seriously, Sean Payton turned a joke of a team into a contender in one year. And the Saints were in far worse shape. Now, I am not saying Joe Gibbs should be fired or anything. I believe he can win a Superbowl, but right now, he hasn't delivered on his initial promises. Tell me, if his name wasn't Joe Gibbs, the almightly Joe Gibbs, and he hadn't won 3 superbowls in the 80's (1 in the early 90's) would you be giving him this kind of leniency. hell, say this guy, won a superbowl in the last 25 years, would you be giving him this leniency?

2007 is the year it all comes together.

change that to 200X

200X is the year it all comes together

that has been our offseason chant for quite a while now. I agree that 2007 could very well be the year we have been hoping for, even with questions on the defensive side of the ball, with Portis, with Campbell. I think we can get it done. But right now.....

Joe Gibbs has not delivered on his initial promise.

The game has changed since Joe Gibbs first stint

It isn't a what have you done for me, but what are you going to do for me.

[Aston]

What do you mean it wasn't his team in 04? He got his man in Gregg Williams, he got Portis, Brunell.

Wow. I know, I blocked it from my memory as much as I could too, but did you remember the Spurrier Era? That offensive philosophy doesn't change overnight.

but seriously, Sean Payton turned a joke of a team into a contender in one year. And the Saints were in far worse shape.

Yeah, like not having any home games. Or a quarterback.

Now, I am not saying Joe Gibbs should be fired or anything. I believe he can win a Superbowl, but right now, he hasn't delivered on his initial promises.

Show me where he promised a Super Bowl by 2006. Please. I'm dying to read this.

Tell me, if his name wasn't Joe Gibbs, the almightly Joe Gibbs, and he hadn't won 3 superbowls in the 80's (1 in the early 90's) would you be giving him this kind of leniency. hell, say this guy, won a superbowl in the last 25 years, would you be giving him this leniency?

Tell me, what head coach has never had a bad year? Belichick went 5-11 in 2000.

200X is the year it all comes together

that has been our offseason chant for quite a while now.

Yep. We're Redskins fans. That's kind of what we do. Wouldn't you agree?

I agree that 2007 could very well be the year we have been hoping for, even with questions on the defensive side of the ball, with Portis, with Campbell. I think we can get it done.

Ah, lovely. Glad to see we see eye to eye on something. Now where were we...

It isn't a what have you done for me, but what are you going to do for me.

Now I'm confused. Just last night, my girlfriend kept saying, what are you going to do to me?

[illone]

Overrated: Chris Samuels...good player but he's deserved to go to 4 pro bowls as much as I've deserved it.

Underrated: Cornelius Griffin...we miss this guy big time whenever he misses a game.

Worst post ever. Chris Samuels is a top 5 OT in this league. No way is he overrated. And how can CG be underrated when the entire fan base loved him in 04 and 05?

Overrated are guys like Golston and McCune. Guys the fan base drools over before they've done anything special.

And whoever posted that Cooley is underrated must not be watching the games or attending. Everytime he touches the ball at a home game the crowd chants his name. I don't even attend and I know that because I can hear it clear as day on TV. :doh:

[Siven]

Wow. I know, I blocked it from my memory as much as I could too, but did you remember the Spurrier Era? That offensive philosophy doesn't change overnight.

Let's see, Gibbs brought in his own coaches, his Quarterback of choice, Mark Brunell, he brought in Portis, he changed the playbook. sure, you had a few holdovers from the Spurrier, guess what, every new coach deals with that. People say the trade for Duckett was one of the worst ever. The Brunell trade is right up there with it.

Yeah, like not having any home games. Or a quarterback.

Right, the Saints were in worse shape then we were.

Show me where he promised a Super Bowl by 2006. Please. I'm dying to read this.

I never said he promised a superbowl. He promised to right the ship. Righting the ship means a few playoff appearances. He's had 1 in 3 years, fine, but in 2 of them he was far from competitive. and that one wouldn't have happened if not for a miracle run. We were so close to not making it. Our last 5 games we produced loads of sacks and turnovers in 05, which was a lot of the reason why we got were ranked the 9th defense, because our last 5 games the defense played lights out.

Tell me, what head coach has never had a bad year? Belichick went 5-11 in 2000.

Ok, your point? Gibbs brought in the players he wanted to make the team better, Surely a HALL OF FAME coach could improve a 5-11 team to better than 6-10.

[Siven]

Worst post ever. Chris Samuels is a top 5 OT in this league. No way is he overrated. And how can CG be underrated when the entire fan base loved him in 04 and 05?

Overrated are guys like Golston and McCune. Guys the fan base drools over before they've done anything special.

And whoever posted that Cooley is underrated must not be watching the games or attending. Everytime he touches the ball at a home game the crowd chants his name. I don't even attend and I know that because I can hear it clear as day on TV. :doh:

Someone posted something about Chris Samuels. Since 2000 or 2001, Only 3!!!! tackles have made the pro bowl. Chris Samuels is one of them, and has made the pro bowl 4 times. That's pretty darn good. Most teams trade tackles high that never make the pro bowl. We have a consistent pro bowler in Samuels, and we are damn lucky to have him. Samuels is underrated.

[onedrop]

What do you mean it wasn't his team in 04? He got his man in Gregg Williams, he got Portis, Brunell. He made changes as he saw fit, it wasn't like he had no draft picks. The man has consistently gone out and got the players he wants, it's been his team from the get-go. yes he had some pieces in place, but seriously, Sean Payton turned a joke of a team into a contender in one year. And the Saints were in far worse shape. Now, I am not saying Joe Gibbs should be fired or anything. I believe he can win a Superbowl, but right now, he hasn't delivered on his initial promises. Tell me, if his name wasn't Joe Gibbs, the almightly Joe Gibbs, and he hadn't won 3 superbowls in the 80's (1 in the early 90's) would you be giving him this kind of leniency. hell, say this guy, won a superbowl in the last 25 years, would you be giving him this leniency?

2007 is the year it all comes together.

change that to 200X

200X is the year it all comes together

that has been our offseason chant for quite a while now. I agree that 2007 could very well be the year we have been hoping for, even with questions on the defensive side of the ball, with Portis, with Campbell. I think we can get it done. But right now.....

Joe Gibbs has not delivered on his initial promise.

The game has changed since Joe Gibbs first stint

It isn't a what have you done for me, but what are you going to do for me.

well i was going to respond once i got back to my office but it would seem that there is no longer any need.

but....Joe Gibbs isnt being given leniency, he being given a honest chance to make the team into constant contenders.

[illone]

We have a consistent pro bowler in Samuels, and we are damn lucky to have him. Samuels is underrated.

Exactly. He's quietly the best player on our oline. He deserves a big paycheck and I am very glad we have him. He's one of the unsung heroes this team has year in and year out.

Another underrated guy is Ethan Albright. Best long snapper in the NFL.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

Overated- Sean Taylor without a doubt. We always harp on how overated Roy Williams is when Sean Taylor is the exact same type of player. A hard hitter with great ball skills but who is always out of position and misses routine tackles trying to get a highlight hit.

Underated- Chris Samuels. Yeah I know he's a pro bowler and gets recognition but I don't think we appreciate how good of a player he has been since he has been here. There are only a handful of elite Left Tackles and he is one of them. His durability has been outstanding and he is our only home grown talent that is actually a player in the top 5 at his position.

Just what I was thinking. :applause:

.

[illone]

It isn't a what have you done for me, but what are you going to do for me.

I disagree. If you had been around in the 80's and seen those teams Gibbs put together you would never call him overrated.

Plus, nobody is overrating Gibbs. Many of us are giving him MORE of a benefit of doubt over any other coach that has been here in the past 13 years, but rightfully so. He's done more for this team than anyone in the history of the franchise, and nobody works harder.

You are too young to know better so I'll let you slide this once;).

[Failing2BOptimistic]

Alright, this has to be the worst call in the entire thread. Name one bad snap we've had since he's been here? Name one time where you have thought to yourself "Nice hold" on a FG attempt or "nice catch" on a punt? Big Red is probably the most underrated player on the team not overrated.

Since when did snapping the ball become an artform????

The only time people comment on his impact is when they are defending the ugly red head when people say " Why is that ugly red head a miilionaire?, You mean you can get paid millions for bending over"

Ethan Albright has found a loophole in the system that is the only profession for men who can make money bending over. For women they have porn, modelling, and creative advertisement in such fields. EA is a joke, don't stick up for him. You only expose yourself to be gullible to those dumb announcers who say Ethan really can snap that ball or when Bob Costas says thats a classy guy....its brainless TV jargon.

[onedrop]

Since when did snapping the ball become an artform????

The only time people comment on his impact is when they are defending the ugly red head when people say " Why is that ugly red head a miilionaire?, You mean you can get paid millions for bending over"

Ethan Albright has found a loophole in the system that is the only profession for men who can make money bending over. For women they have porn, modelling, and creative advertisement in such fields. EA is a joke, don't stick up for him. You only expose yourself to be gullible to those dumb announcers who say Ethan really can snap that ball or when Bob Costas says thats a classy guy....its brainless TV jargon.

you are WAY to angry about another man getting paid handsomely to "bend over". you may have some feelings that you need to explore.

[illone]

The only time people comment on his impact is when they are defending the ugly red head when people say " Why is that ugly red head a miilionaire?, You mean you can get paid millions for bending over"

If that's the case then how can he be overrated?

[robotfire]

Sean Taylor is the most underrated player on our team right now. His first two seasons were INCREDIBLE. He was around the ball on every single play. It was like he was in Tecmo Super Bowl and he was being controlled by me.

[DirtySkin21]

i would smoke you in tecmo bowl, or madden. CRUSH YOU!! hahah

[DirtySkin21]

run run, lpay action and score all day in tecmo SB

[funguy1286]

Overrated = Ladell Betts. I'm sick of seeing people say he should start over Portis. The reason he got all his yards was because the OL made HUGE holes for him that he ran through and got 6-7 yards before anyone touched him. I'd stake my honor on the fact that Portis could have challenged for the league rushing title had he been back there instead of Betts. Those 10-yard bursts Betts had would have become 20 or 30 yard bursts with Portis because he has superior speed, agility, power, and vision. Hell, he just has more ability than Betts will ever have. I like Betts and he's a great backup. But that's what he is. A great backup.

Does anyone remember Reverend Gon' Change? That's when Portis declared things would change when we were 5-6 after our loss to San Diego. He then proceeded to carry our team, yes PORTIS CARRIED OUR TEAM to the playoffs. He had 573 yards in 5 games and added six rushing touchdowns. Brunell couldn't do ANYTHING during that stretch and Clinton cranked out a 100 yard game in every win during our streak when defenses were clearly not respecting our passing game and keyed in on him all day.That's what Clinton means to the Redskins. That's why he's the heart and soul of our offense. That's why he's our starting back.

I guess from all that you can tell who my underrated guy is...

Betts had over 1,000 yards in 8 games with the same o-line

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

To everyone calling me retarded for listing Santana Moss, please read the criteria I based it on.

I said "From a Redskins fan's perspective" who is the most overrated. (i.e. who do we always act like is better than they actuially are).

It is frequently asserted on this board that Santana Moss is one of the top 2 or 3 WRs in the league. This is simply not the case. He has only had one season in which he really shone. Immediately following his breakout season his yardage was nearly haved. Yes he had an amazing year, yes he could quite possibly turn into a great WR, but right now he is a guy who caught for less than 800 yards last year. He is the guy who was 31st in the NFL in receiving yards last year. He was 29th in rypg. His bread and butter (you know the big play) well 33 guys had more plays of 20+yds than him.

Now some of you assert that it was Brunell's fault that Moss had 790yds receiving last year. It had to be the QB play, but he did not substantially improve with Cambell at the helm.

Then you say that Cambell wasn't a substantial improvement over Brunell last year because he was rookie learning the offense, thus depreciating the value of Moss. Fact is WRs with far crummier or just as crummy QBs finished with much better numbers than Moss. Andre Johnson, Mike Furrey and Roy Williams, Joey Galloway, Braylon Edwards, Mushin Muhhamad, two fudge packers from a filthy texas city.

When push comes to shove Santana has had one good year in his career (his only injury free one at that. He has tons of potential, but he has yet to become the player so many people assert he is.

[snaps]

Overated: Brandon Lloyd

Underated: James Thrash