For those of you who believe we're set at Dline...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

ok, so weve argued for months back and forth whether or not were set at dline or not, and obviously our coaching staff as well as some of you think were fine there and its clear from the 0 players added to the dline in terms of FA or the draft. so heres what id like to know. im not going to argue in this thread (shocker), i just want those who feel that were ok to state why exactly we are fine at dline. im just here to listen because i already know why i felt like we werent, obviously a bunch of great coaches think differently than i do.

here are our current dline members, and their ages/sizes.

Andre Carter - DE - 27 - 265

Phillip Daniels - DE - 34 - 285

Demetric Evans - DE - 27 - 280

Jamaal Green - DE - 26 - 258

Joe Sykes - DE - 24 - 266

Renaldo Wynn - DE - 32 - 292

Lorenzo Alexander - DT - 23 - 300

Ryan Boschetti - DT - 25 - 305

Jared Clauss - DT - 26 - 290

Kedric Golston - DT - 23 - 292

Cornelius Griffin - DT - 30 - 300

Vaka Manupuna - DT - 24 - 300

Anthony Montgomry - DT - 23 - 312

Joe Salave'a - DT - 32 - 295

these are the members that we are relying on next year (currently) to bring us back to a great defense on our dline. its been stated and its clear williams relies much more on his LB/DB for his defense, and were looking pretty solid at both groups currently. i personally do not feel comfortable with this group on the line, some of you disagree, and thats cool. i wish i could feel better about this group but theres really no reason for me to. so id really like someones strong argument to make me feel better about this. heres your chance to make me a believer!! haha

[skinfan2k]

im tired of all the crap on this board that we need dline.. it was the horrible LBs and the secondary that got burnt on every paly.. the LBs were unable to keep up with the TE and Rbs out of the backfield and the CBs allowed 10 yrds of space to keep their guy in front of them.. GW will blitz this year with the amount of depth at the cb and safety position. last year qbs killed his on the 3 step drop.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

im tired of all the crap on this board that we need dline.. it was the horrible LBs and the secondary that got burnt on every paly.. the LBs were unable to keep up with the TE and Rbs out of the backfield and the CBs allowed 10 yrds of space to keep their guy in front of them.. GW will blitz this year with the amount of depth at the cb and safety position. last year qbs killed his on the 3 step drop.

and i will agree, our secondary looked bad, and our LBs did as well. but my question to you then is, on passing downs, what are the DEs and DTs jobs? ive been told over and over our line in williams system doesnt bring pressure, so what are daniels and carters job on passing downs to do? again, im not arguing at all in this thread, i just wanna understand what some of you truly feel about this issue.

[terpfan]

Look, our D-line is not great. It could definitely stand to be improved. But it's not terrible. Carter is a pretty good player. Griffin is great when he is healthy. Golston showed some pretty good promise as a rookie. No team is perfect, and this is our weakness. We are going to have to deal with that.

Here is the one thing that's getting me through it. We were a very good defense a couple years ago. Was our DL good then? No, not really. It was exactly the same as it was last year, except with Wynn starting instead of Carter, and no Golston or Montgomery. So if you ask me, it was even worse. And we did improve our DBs and LBs greatly this offseason. So if Griff stays healthy, like he was back then, I see no reason why we cant have that same level of production. Does that make sense?

We will never be an ELITE defense with this defensive line. But there's no reason we can't be good. Hell, we have already PROVED that. Hopefully next offseason we can land a great DL and take the next step.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

im tired of all the crap on this board that we need dline.. it was the horrible LBs and the secondary that got burnt on every paly.. the LBs were unable to keep up with the TE and Rbs out of the backfield and the CBs allowed 10 yrds of space to keep their guy in front of them.. GW will blitz this year with the amount of depth at the cb and safety position. last year qbs killed his on the 3 step drop.

lol... QBs had all day to pick apart our defense or wait for openings... have you not been paying attention the last few years... if we dont blitz, we have no pass rush

[TheLongshot]

Hey, the coaching staff may want to improve it as well, but have you considered that there weren't that many options to improve things significantly? There certainly weren't many options in FA, and we saw last year what kind of struggles late round picks have on the line.

I do think there is going to be a lot of dependence on the improvement of Golston and Montgomery in the improvement on the line. Also, maybe the change in conditioning philosophy will help the linemen to perform better. Certainly, Daniels complained enough about that. But, we will have to see.

Jason

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Look, our D-line is not great. It could definitely stand to be improved. But it's not terrible. Carter is a pretty good player. Griffin is great when he is healthy. Golston showed some pretty good promise as a rookie. No team is perfect, and this is our weakness. We are going to have to deal with that.

Here is the one thing that's getting me through it. We were a very good defense a couple years ago. Was our DL good then? No, not really. It was exactly the same as it was last year, except with Wynn starting instead of Carter, and no Golston or Montgomery. So if you ask me, it was even worse. And we did improve our DBs and LBs greatly this offseason. So if Griff stays healthy, like he was back then, I see no reason why we cant have that same level of production. Does that make sense?

We will never be an ELITE defense with this defensive line. But there's no reason we can't be good. Hell, we have already PROVED that. Hopefully next offseason we can land a great DL and take the next step.

ill buy this, this is the best statement ive heard yet. you pretty much admitted our dline is our weakest link, but you are correct in saying that our dline has always been the weakest link even when we were succeeding as a defense. so my only question to you is, do you feel that our dline due to age and durability has lost a step? its clear to me that last year griffin and salavea were not the same as they were in 04. would you agree with that?

[HEavyJumbo85]

If Joe Gibbs and Gregg Williams say we don't need D-line and say we're not going after a D-lineman, odds are we aren't going after a D-lineman...Let it go man

[terpfan]

lol... QBs had all day to pick apart our defense or wait for openings... have you not been paying attention the last few years... if we dont blitz, we have no pass rush

GW has ALWAYS depended on blitzing for pass rush. And we got away from that last season. For whatever reason, maybe we didnt have the personel, maybe other teams figured his blitzes out. But we need to do more of that next season,I think Gibbs has already alluded to that. Marcus Washington needs to get back to blitzing. I also think Landry will help in that regard. Like I said, we can be successful with a mediocre DL. That has always been GW's and Blache's thing. Hopefully it will work for us once again next season.

[skinsfan07]

Look, our D-line is not great. It could definitely stand to be improved. But it's not terrible. Carter is a pretty good player. Griffin is great when he is healthy. Golston showed some pretty good promise as a rookie. No team is perfect, and this is our weakness. We are going to have to deal with that.

Here is the one thing that's getting me through it. We were a very good defense a couple years ago. Was our DL good then? No, not really. It was exactly the same as it was last year, except with Wynn starting instead of Carter, and no Golston or Montgomery. So if you ask me, it was even worse. And we did improve our DBs and LBs greatly this offseason. So if Griff stays healthy, like he was back then, I see no reason why we cant have that same level of production. Does that make sense?

We will never be an ELITE defense with this defensive line. But there's no reason we can't be good. Hell, we have already PROVED that. Hopefully next offseason we can land a great DL and take the next step.

:notworthy:applause::applause::notworthy

Nuff said! Fantasic post. I agree 100%.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Hey, the coaching staff may want to improve it as well, but have you considered that there weren't that many options to improve things significantly? There certainly weren't many options in FA, and we saw last year what kind of struggles late round picks have on the line.

I do think there is going to be a lot of dependence on the improvement of Golston and Montgomery in the improvement on the line. Also, maybe the change in conditioning philosophy will help the linemen to perform better. Certainly, Daniels complained enough about that. But, we will have to see.

Jason

you may be correct, but gibbs did say they felt good about the line, no clue whether i can believe that as "gibbs speak" or if he was being straight up with everyone, we'll have to wait and see. i just keep asking myself, how much longer can our dline last with older guys like they have now? when is the upgrade coming? some of us were hoping it was this year, and it clearly was not. when do we address our aging dline?

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

GW has ALWAYS depended on blitzing for pass rush. And we got away from that last season. For whatever reason, maybe we didnt have the personel, maybe other teams figured his blitzes out. But we need to do more of that next season,I think Gibbs has already alluded to that. Marcus Washington needs to get back to blitzing. I also think Landry will help in that regard. Like I said, we can be successful with a mediocre DL. That has always been GW's and Blache's thing. Hopefully it will work for us once again next season.

and i agree, but at least in this thread we all seem to agree our dline is our weakest link. but i just happen to think our dline was weaker last year than it had been in 05 or 04 and injuries and age came into play there. i really hope our coaching staff is right in having so much faith in our dline. its gonna be scary if they misjudged them.

[skinfan2k]

ever heard of coverage sacks that helped us greatly in 2005. we had to cover for people's weaknesses last year.. Marshall is not a MLB and cant cover TEs.. warrick cant play run defense or any type of defense. Taylor had play the corners who had to play 10 yards off the ball

[skinsfanno9]

i just keep asking myself, how much longer can our dline last with older guys like they have now?

My own guess? I say week three, week six at the outside. This is the problem with aging dudes...they break down quicker. How many of us will be "shocked shocked" when the 35 year-old pulls a hammy or mucks up his knee?

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

ever heard of coverage sacks that helped us greatly in 2005. we had to cover for people's weaknesses last year.. Marshall is not a MLB and cant cover TEs.. warrick cant play run defense or any type of defense. Taylor had play the corners who had to play 10 yards off the ball

a coverage sack is only effective if your dline is built to get to the QB, which most of you have stated is not how williams gets pressure on the QB. if he wasnt sending anyone on blitzes, we were pretty much just sitting ducks all year long, which bothers me now that i think back to the season in hindsight.

[Skinsinparadise]

these are the members that we are relying on next year (currently) to bring us back to a great defense on our dline. its been stated and its clear williams relies much more on his LB/DB for his defense, and were looking pretty solid at both groups currently. i personally do not feel comfortable with this group on the line, some of you disagree, and thats cool. i wish i could feel better about this group but theres really no reason for me to. so id really like someones strong argument to make me feel better about this. heres your chance to make me a believer!! haha

For me I always thought that Griffin was the key to make our line special, not that its an orginal thought though, if you recall a couple of years ago when he was a beast it was him and Pierce who were arguably our best players. Just watched Gibbs' press conference he talked a bit about Griffin being healthy this year, and lifting a lot of weight and expects him to be back in form. If Griffin plays well I think we are OK at D line, he's not Daniels' age. He shouldn't be washed up yet.

As for Daniels he was hurt last year, never been a stud pass rusher but he's a big guy and is tough against the run. If he's healthy and they say he is I don't think its far fetched to think he'd be at least decent against the run.

Andre Carter come on strong last year.

Also I suspect they aren't done yet. We have June 1st cuts and it wouldn't surprise me if a decent D lineman or two gets released -- June 1st cuts are often good players that teams can't afford anymore.

So my thought is the FO didn't think any D lineman was worth the #6 pick and didn't want to reach for one. By the 5th round no one decent was left in their eyes. They think the D lineman we have will be healthy next year. Montgomry and Goldston they apprently think will be better this year AND I suspect they think they can get a D lineman after June 1st anyway.

My theory! :cool: If anything makes me worried right now is Marcus becuase if he's not back in form and healthy, we could have some problems.

[TheLongshot]

you may be correct, but gibbs did say they felt good about the line, no clue whether i can believe that as "gibbs speak" or if he was being straight up with everyone, we'll have to wait and see. i just keep asking myself, how much longer can our dline last with older guys like they have now? when is the upgrade coming? some of us were hoping it was this year, and it clearly was not. when do we address our aging dline?

Well, it probably will have to be addressed in the near future, because Daniels and Wynn won't be here for that much longer.

I was hoping it was going to be this year as well, but the more people looked at what was available, the more that it looked like that the type of player we need wasn't going to be there, or worth paying #6 money to.

Jason

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

My own guess? I say week three, week six at the outside. This is the problem with aging dudes...they break down quicker. How many of us will be "shocked shocked" when the 35 year-old pulls a hammy or mucks up his knee?

and obviously that is your guess, and iw ould probably agree, but what weirds me out is that our coaching staff clearly disagrees, and i cant figure out why. i really hope they have some sort of ace up their sleeve. id eat a billion pounds of crow for a winning season.

[terpfan]

ill buy this, this is the best statement ive heard yet. you pretty much admitted our dline is our weakest link, but you are correct in saying that our dline has always been the weakest link even when we were succeeding as a defense. so my only question to you is, do you feel that our dline due to age and durability has lost a step? its clear to me that last year griffin and salavea were not the same as they were in 04. would you agree with that?

Well, age and durability are issues. Griffin is the key to the d-line, and really the defense as a whole. He is still young enough, but he HAS to stay healthy. When he is out, we struggle mightily. Daniels and Big Joe are probably feeling the effects of aging, but Daniels has never really relied on speed or athleticism and Big Joe doesnt have to start anymore, or at least he will be spelled often by Golston and maybe Montgomery. I think durabilty is the biggest issue here though. If our DL does stay healthy, I dont think their performance will be any worse than it was in 2003 and 2004. I think they could actually be better if Carter is the player I think he will be, and showed he can be in the second half of last year.

Here are the two things I think are huge going into next season:

- I really think people are underestimating how much the addition of London Fletcher will help our run defense. It's really two-fold, he gives us a stout presence in the middle, AND he allows us to move Marshall over to WLB, his more natural position, to platoon with Rocky. Bye, bye Warrick Holdman. This was just a very, very smart move by our front office. And he hasnt missed a game in his entire CAREER. Knock on wood, that will be a very welcome sight on this defense.

- As Griff goes, so goes our defense. Someone should do a split of our defensive stats when he starts and when he doesnt, I bet its startling. If he stays healthy and productive I think we will be just fine.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

For me I always thought that Griffin was the key to make our line special, not that its an orginal thought though, if you recall a couple of years ago when he was a beast it was him and Pierce who were arguably our best players. Just watched Gibbs' press conference he talked a bit about Griffin being healthy this year, and lifting a lot of weight and expects him to be back in form. If Griffin plays well I think we are OK at D line, he's not Daniels' age. He shouldn't be washed up yet.

As for Daniels he was hurt last year, never been a stud pass rusher but he's a big guy and is tough against the run. If he's healthy and they say he is I don't think its far fetched to think he'd be at least decent against the run.

Andre Carter come on strong last year.

Also I suspect they aren't done yet. We have June 1st cuts and it wouldn't surprise me if a decent D lineman or two gets released -- June 1st cuts are often good players that teams can't afford anymore.

So my thought is the FO didn't think any D lineman was worth the #6 pick and didn't want to reach for one. By the 5th round no one decent was left in their eyes. They think the D lineman we have will be healthy next year. Montgomry and Goldston they apprently think will be better this year AND I suspect they think they can get a D lineman after June 1st anyway.

My theory! :cool: If anything makes me worried right now is Marcus becuase if he's not back in form and healthy, we could have some problems.

good call on this. i like daniels in the run, and griffin when healthy is killer, maybe hes got more gas in the tank than i think, and golston was good last year so was carter. lets just hope all the upgrades we made are actually upgrades.

[Pedro]

Maybe it's the terminology used. A GWs D with good DBs can cover up a weak DL pass rush. I don't think it can cover a no 2 Gap run D so we need either Montgomery to step up which is a possibility or Salave'a to not get injured which is unlikely.

I would like to see a GW D with a good DL, potentially a sick combination but that of course assumes GW has sorted his personality issues out. Sometimes what you say is less important than how you say it and everything points to this being GW's major (and possibly fatal) flaw.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Well, it probably will have to be addressed in the near future, because Daniels and Wynn won't be here for that much longer.

I was hoping it was going to be this year as well, but the more people looked at what was available, the more that it looked like that the type of player we need wasn't going to be there, or worth paying #6 money to.

Jason

and i agree, okoye was not the answer, and we did get the best player in the draft and now have the best saftey tandem in football. lets just hope landry and taylor will be blitzing machines this year. because if you think about it, both of them are ridiculous when it comes to pass rushing, and either of them coming off the edge will create huge problems for teams.

[kwitt]

If we keep all of our picks next year, and that is a BIG if, I think we will address D-Line more then. Having all of your draft picks just gives a team much more flexability. :helmet:

[DjTj]

you may be correct, but gibbs did say they felt good about the line, no clue whether i can believe that as "gibbs speak" or if he was being straight up with everyone, we'll have to wait and see. i just keep asking myself, how much longer can our dline last with older guys like they have now? when is the upgrade coming? some of us were hoping it was this year, and it clearly was not. when do we address our aging dline?

I think that's a lot of "Gibbs speak." He's not going to talk down our veteran players if we're going to have to rely on them. I mean it doesn't take any special insight to realize that Cornelius Griffin is 30 years old, Renaldo Wynn and Joe Salave'a are 32, and Philip Daniels is 34.

I don't think the coaching staff believes that we're completely set along the D-line. All that the draft tells us is that there was nobody available at our picks that filled our needs on the D-line. We also had a need at safety, and we liked LaRon Landry better than we liked Okoye or Anderson. We clearly didn't value Branch that highly. A 5th or 6th round pick wasn't going to net us a future replacement for Daniels or Griffin.

The coaching staff probably worries about the D-line less than a lot of people on this board (probably for a lot of the reasons people have brought up in this thread about blitzing and coverage sacks), but the coaches haven't been ignoring it completely. In fact, we tried to address this problem last year with the signing of Andre Carter and the drafting of Golston and Montgomery. Maybe there were no good options for us this year, but I'm sure it's on their minds.

[HEavyJumbo85]

a coverage sack is only effective if your dline is built to get to the QB, which most of you have stated is not how williams gets pressure on the QB. if he wasnt sending anyone on blitzes, we were pretty much just sitting ducks all year long, which bothers me now that i think back to the season in hindsight.

yeah we were boned because we couldn't cover anything. Williams has relied on the blitz for the most part in the past, but I think everyone is forgetting how good Cornelius Griffin is/was. I mean before he went down with some injuries he was a pro bowl alternate(he should have been a starter) in 2004 and he was a damn good player for us in 2005. He didn't miss a huge amount of games in 05 like he did last season and I think if he's healthy, he's a big time lineman in this league and will help us immensley.

I believe Fred Smoot may help us more than folks think also. He is a pure man-cover corner and those are the type of guys you need if you plan on blitzing a lot. If you can recall in 04 we were blitzing corners and saftey's with extreme regularity, I can't count on one hand the amount of times I saw Sean Springs coming off the corner or Walt Harris doing the same. Smoot will help.

Our defense needs to stay as injury free as possible if they want to return to the top 10 defense we expect them to be. Andre Carter should carry the momentum he generated towards the end of last season over to this year and if Griff stays healthy and one of these guys Golsten or Montgomery comes along we might get back to being a good defense sooner than later.

I believe that the play of our defensive tackles is going to determine what kind of defense we ultimatley turn out to be. If Griff gets back to being the player he was and if one of those young tackles comes along or if Big Joe Saleve'a plays at a high level a la 2005 we're going to be hard to move the football.