How good are Golston and Montgomery?

[dent19]

We will see what they both have to offer this year. And it will also tell a story about the FO's turn around or continued "oops I did it again"

[Chump Bailey]

Other than Okoye, I don't think any of the D-Tackles are a sure upgrade to Montgomery and Golston.

Justin Harrell I would add also. I would bet the farm he would have been an upgrade personally.

[Chump Bailey]

Look, we need both guys to produce obviously and I think we are gambling a bit personally with these guys to an extent. Golston looks like a keeper and hopefully Montgomery will pan out. If they do, this will be a huge victory for Gibbs and this FO.

[Failing2BOptimistic]

How good are Golston and Montgomery?

Not very. Which makes them contenders to be potential starters and millionaires for you years to come in Wash. Wooo!!!

[Art]

How good are Golston and Montgomery?

Not very. Which makes them contenders to be potential starters and millionaires for you years to come in Wash. Wooo!!!

And another "realistic" fan shows up and will certainly wonder why no one can tell he's a fan of this team. Likely, because he's not.

[skinsn24]

Here is what i know as a fact. We had one of the worst, if not, the worst defensive line in NFL history last year.

Golston was a big part of that. Giving up 150 on the ground seemed to be no problem for this line.

Yes i praty Golston will get better, but lets keep this in mind about AM and Golston, they were late round picks, they were not expected to become great players.

Unlike a first round pick where i think 2-3 years of unhindered optimisim is ok, (rogers), it is harder to be optimistic about a 6th round pick. Yea i hope and pray they turn into studs, but i cannot expect them to do so, especially after a lack luster first year.

Yea Golston started, so what, he started on one of the worst lines in football history. His "best game" came in a game where we gave up 195 on the ground.

I hope he improves, but what we need is a STUD DT, which griffin was in 04 and 05, but his age and injuries have cleary slowed him down.

[GURU]

Here is what i know as a fact. We had one of the worst, if not, the worst defensive line in NFL history last year.

Okay, that's probably one of the most ignorant statements I've seen posted, yet. Last year's D-line wasn't even close to one of the worst defensive lines in Redskins history. Not talent-wise. Remember those miserable lines early on in the Norv Turner days? Remember those D-lines in the late '80s after Dexter Manley snorted his way out of the league, Dave Butz retired, and the overachieving Darryl Grant finally ran out of gas?

I still believe that there is rampant gross misinterpretation of the Redskins' defensive woes last year. A certain amount of that is plain old lack of football knowledge, and some of it is lack of understanding about Gregg Williams defensive scheme.

The poor run defense wasn't simply a result of poor defensive line talent. It was a TEAM failure. Gregg Williams' scheme requires a great deal of coordination between defenders, not just on the defensive line. It requires that players know their assignments on any given play, and they must know how to make adjustments on the fly just before or as the ball is snapped. Some defensive linemen must plug the proper gap. Other defensive linemen must defeat their blocks and force the ball carrier to run in a different direction. And most every play is designed to create at least one unblocked defender, usually linebackers and frequently the strong safety. Those guys must be in the proper position to make the play.

My contention is that injuries and inexperience had a much greater impact on the overall play of the defense than most posters here realize -- much greater than individual physical talent. Take Andre Carter, for instance. Many have mentioned how he seemed to come on towards the end of the season. Doen't anyone think that might have had to do with the his lack of familiarity with the defensive calls and his teammates? Plus, when Salave'a and Griffin suffered injuries, it meant two rookies, who were in the process of learning pro techniques, let alone the defensive calls, had to step in. Simply plugging the wrong gap or attacking the wrong shoulder of the offensive linemen could cause a rippling effect in the whole run defense by creating holes that weren't supposed to be there. That's not the same as getting physically whipped, as some contend. Those are mental errors, which are correctable.

I believe that Montgomery and Golsten can be productive players in this scheme. They are both more physically talented than a Joe Salave'a, for instance, and Salave'a was very solid when healthy. The key is whether or not they can learn their techniques and assignments and start playing more instinctively. Montgomery has the talent to anchor over the nose and even get into the gaps when asked to. Golsten is athletic and flashed disruptiveness at times. He got into the backfield frequently, but didn't always make the play once he got there. He needs to become more disciplined and consistent and learn that his job isn't always to make the tackle.

The injuries in the secondary had an effect on run defense, too. To compensate for coverage deficencies, more players were committed to pass coverage rather than stopping the run or rushing the passer.

The most reliable linebacker the Skins have, Marcus Washington, was playing through injury, also, so that affects everything the defense could do. Warrick Holdman didn't do a very good job of either forcing ball carriers back to the middle OR making plays when he was supposed to be unblocked. But his backup was a rookie who was still learning his responsibilites.

And I think some of the defensive failures, unfortunately, simply had to do with human nature. There was a snowball effect: as things got worse, effort got worse, and it manifested itself in poor tackling and poor technique.

That's the real challenge this coming season. Simply plugging in a rookie defensive end or tackle isn't going to cure the ills of last year's team. The coaching staff has to figure out how to get these players to put last year completely out of their minds and refocus their efforts. They need to get back to fundamentals. That's going to make this defense better than any single player they can plug in from the draft.

[azmodeus13]

Guru - this is a well written post that gives me some hope for the year. I appreciate the effort you put into it.

The entire problem was not line talent as you state. I agree with you that injuries had a tantamount effect on the defense as a whole. I hope you are right in the part about Golston and Monty having the ability to play well in this system, and yes Monty does have the weight to play a 2 gap style DT or a light weight NT if he can show the talent to play it. The few times I got a chance to see him, he seemed to get overwhelmed in the middle and pushed back into the second line of the defense.

Keeping the LBs clean this line did not do last year. Holdman was not very good as you stated and I don't know whether Marshall can hold down a spot at MLB as the acquisition of Fletcher seems to support. However, in 2005, when Griffin went down and Salave'a followed, we had a series of losses where our defense was anything but spectacular, mostly right up the middle. Once Griff and Big Joe came back, the team, with their anchors in the middle back, were able to get that great run to end the season. Everyone loves to point to 10-6 and that we went to the playoffs, but frankly, if our starting 2 DTs hadn't come back when they did, would we have? Does that not show a potential weakness there in depth?

In 2006, the line once again was a large part of the problem, because while injuries decimated the secondary, the line couldn't hold up against basic runs in the middle of their strength. True, G and M were young and inexperienced, but I don't know if they can hold the point of attack from what we saw. Whether that was adjustment or lack of ability and/or strength, I don't know. Once again, while we addressed depth in the 2006 draft, we didn't either get people who were capable of holding the line, or were so inexperienced that they couldn't.

Yes, the secondary issue was a factor as was the weakness at MLB and OLB (Holdman). Was it the entire factor? No. Do we have strength in depth with Wynn, Evans, Golston and Monty? IMO, we don't. I think Evans has little bursts and Golston showed some moves, but Wynn doesn't really do anything but run support and Monty appeared to vanish.

We have addressed weaknesses at DB and LB this year. My question is did we take a huge gamble on not addressing the DL *AT ALL*? Could we have done something to address 2 DEs that are over 30 and slowing rapidly down, a DE that is situational at best? Could we have addressed the 2 DTs with injury problems each of the last 2 years with more than a possible good players and one eh player?

I hope you're right. I really do. I just worry about what we have to face if we can't get pressure without pulling a lot of people off coverage. I worry about run defense. I can't help it - I am a fan who worries about his team. ::shrug::

All I can do, like everyone else, is wait for the season and hope you look smarter and more football intelligent than I do I hope you are. I just have my reaction to the draft like everyone else, good or bad.

[HoyaSkins28]

barring a Kris Jenkins trade or June 1st pick up Griffin and Golston should start come September. I hope its not the case but i would be okay with it.

[Bryan81]

I think the way the Redskins are going to address the DL is by getting whoever the Broncos cut. They have like 13 DL now. I think they will get rid of some of them in June.

[number twenty-eight]

I like both of these guys, especially Montgomery. I remember seeing him in some big10 games and he would look like a man among boys, sort of like Branch did at times. Just not consistent, as you might expect.

These two and Carter are my greatest hope for organic improvement along our defensive line. The two getting closer to NFL bodies and Carter in his second year back at end.

[azmodeus13]

:cheers: :cheers:

Here's to hoping y'all are right and I'm not

[cphil006]

Golston was solid last year and should only be better. Montgomery didn't shine quite as bright as Golston, but he is heavier and should be better this season as well. With those two youngsters and Griffin and Salave'a getting back to full strength after their injuries, we should be stronger up the middle than last season.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

Not true at all. Watch the Titans game where he started. He didn't get knocked back at all. Dude is huge. The only downside to him is he's out of shape, or was, and had to be spelled by Boschetti a bunch, especially late in the game. :

HTTR

Might not want to use the Titans game as a positive thing EVER.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/teamstats/NFL_20061015_TEN@WAS

.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

Okay, that's probably one of the most ignorant statements I've seen posted, yet. Last year's D-line wasn't even close to one of the worst defensive lines in Redskins history. Not talent-wise.

I prefer results over "talent wise" ie we looked good on paper.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-RUSHING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=7

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-PASSING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=8

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TURNOVERS/2006/regular?sort_col_1=8

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-SCORING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=3

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2006/regular?sort_col_1=4

.

[gutlead74]

the sartz backer might be the pash rusher we seek

[skinsn24]

Okay, that's probably one of the most ignorant statements I've seen posted, yet. Last year's D-line wasn't even close to one of the worst defensive lines in Redskins history. Not talent-wise.

Production over Talant every day of the week, every week of the year.

4.5 yards per rush agaisnt

27th in yards against

NFL record for lowest sacks.....yea they were moeney:laugh:

Ps. Wynn, Daniels, and Golston are not that talaneted, especially not at this point in their carears.

[turbodiesel#44]

Because I watched all the games last year, I am an expert and can let this board know why we lost so many games.

1. We could not stop the run. Even when it meant the game. SO many times, we were in games late, but could not limit the opposition to 2 or 3 series. They ran, ate the clock, gobbled yards and shat 1st downs. Seemingly at will.

2. We were unable to place any pressure on the opposing quarterback. This made our DB's look even worse than they really were. Archuletta included. Some QB's worked on Sodoku puzzles from the pocket. Those weren't plays taped on their wrists.

That's the top 2 reasons we lost. The others, MB's play, CP injury, etc. are addressed in other threads and fall behind these first two reasons in importance.

We have done essentially nothing about our DL problem, so far. I hope we go for a trade (trade what?) or can find an impact FA ($$$). If not, I hope JG/GW have seen a significant improvement in Golston & Montgomery. Otherwise, next year we will be looking at more of the same.

[GURU]

I prefer results over "talent wise" ie we looked good on paper.

Production over Talant every day of the week, every week of the year.

Uh, did you guys read ANY of the rest of my post?

Nobody's disputing that the results were terrible. What I'm disputing is that talent, or the lack thereof, was the reason for the poor production.

What I'm hearing is that many of you think that, by drafting a defensive lineman, that the overall production of the line will change. I say that's bunk! One or two rookie defensive linemen won't fix the way that DBs tackle. It won't fix the way linebackers attack running lanes or contain outside runs.

There's a symbiotic relationship between units on defense. They all affect each other.

There's a lot more to fix than the personnel on the defensive line. I say the most crucial element to fix is the attitude of the whole defense. It starts THERE.

Here's a lesson in simplistic, cliche thinking:

In 1997, the Skins just missed the playoffs with an 8-7-1 record, and much of the headaches were blamed on the team's 28th rank rush defense, which gave up 4.35 yards per rush and 15 rushing TDs. So, in the offseason, the Skins went out and aquired Defensive MVP Dana Stubblefield to plug up the middle. And they didn't stop there. They went even further and signed Big Daddy Wilkerson to further sure up the middle of that defensive line.

The results? The Skins ranked 28th in rushing defense, again, giving up 200 MORE yards on the ground for the '98 season. Opponents ripped them for 4.59 yards per carry and score 24 TDs on the ground.

What went wrong, guys? The Skins did pretty much what everyone was clamoring for. What happened?

Football ain't simple. But I DO agree that production is preferable over talent.

[DCMONEY]

I still feel that Alan Branch would've been an upgrade at DT Period.

[Morneblade]

Justin Harrell I would add also. I would bet the farm he would have been an upgrade personally.

He would have been a big upgrade. Alan Branch, even if he doesnt play to his full potiential would be a upgrade as well. And Okoye would be a no-brainer as a upgrade. There were several guys that would hvae greatly improved the 2 gap DT opsition here, and let Golston go back to the 1 gap.

[SWFLSkins]

Haven't you heard, according to Gibbs and co., these two are hall of famers. We're gonna have the best defense in the history of the league. Teams will probably average negative yards rushing per game. Its gonna be awesome. How could somebody even question the ability of our genius front office to pick lower round players?

______________________________________________________________

According to Gibbs and company? Get Real. Your actually going too far now, putting words in Coach Joe Gibbs mouth. Do you write for the Post?

PS, sorry you had such a bad fan experience in '06, move along, catch the next band wagon out of town, and have a nice fan experience, without all the pain.

[#98QBKiller]

Here is what i know as a fact. We had one of the worst, if not, the worst defensive line in NFL history last year.

Golston was a big part of that. Giving up 150 on the ground seemed to be no problem for this line.

I hope he improves, but what we need is a STUD DT, which griffin was in 04 and 05, but his age and injuries have cleary slowed him down.

Believe it or not Griffin and our entire DL had more tackles in 2006 than in 2005. Last year Griffin had 39 compared to his 34 in 2005. Our DL in 2005 had 151 tackles compared to 195 in 2006.

I realize that tackles are not the only factor in the play of a DL and that offenses stayed on the field against us longer in 2006 than in 2005, resulting in more tackles but that's quite a jump in stats And when a defensive lineman tackles (unless it's a sack) it's usually a RB, not a receiver that is tackled.

A big problem last year was that when a running back made it through the defensive line, our LBs did not stop them, resulting in a big gain into the secondary.

The upgrade in our LB corps will give our run D a huge boost and having Salave'a and Griffin healthy will help a lot too.

All the while, we allowed 30 TDs through the air (the league worst), so I think bolstering the secondary with Landry, Smoot and Macklin was not such a bad idea.

[The Sisko]

The one good thing about our not taking any DL in this year's draft is that it will give us another season to see what these two have got. If one of them develops into a decent full-time DT we can then divert our attention to DE, WR or other areas of need.

[jivelikenice]

I think Golston came in more ready to play and is closer to a finished product, but I think Montgomery might have the higher upside. He has the size & frame that cold allow him to collapse a pocket. Our defene hasn't been the same v. the run since Noble got hurt aftert he '04 season and hopefully Am can fill that role....