Imus on the Hot Seat for Rutgers Comments

[ccsl2]

Of course Imus was wrong, but how wrong? I think Bang makes an important point when it comes to trying to qualify just how damnable his comment ought to be.

Wrong enough to feel all of this 1st Amendment heat he is feeling right now!!!!He has 1st amendment rights, so does eveyrone else to rip him a new one and/or to pressure his boss's into firing him.

Staples and Parker Brothers are listening.

[megared]

None of this addresses the FACT that in hip hop culture, women are referred to as ****es and ho's a LOT.

All of this is George Carlin and South Park stuff is misdirection. See? They said this word!

I don't care who said "****' on TV. It's not the point. The point here is that this discussion took a turn a few pages back to the point that the women are upset, or should be upset, to being referred to as "hos".

This term is mainstream enough for a nearly 70 yr old man with a dying radio show to use it. He didn't say "whore" .. he said the slang "ho" which came from...?

You want to defend the music fine, I can see that is what you're about. But you can't ignore simple FACTS about it's lyrical content and the characterizations it puts forth. And the very fact that even this dried up old hack has heard enough of it that he felt comfortable using it as a regular part of American slang should be enough to show anyone that these references to our women are being held as mainstream normal slang.

As to wondering over your parenting as to a guy calling your daughter this,, it really doesn't much matter either. Kids are kids. They are very easily influenced. Girls put themselves in that position all the time by allowing it because it has been made to be cool. Guys think it's a matter of respect to treat women as whores, they refer to themselves as pimps as a matter of pride. If a girl gets out of line, the message is to slap the snot out of them, or be a ***** yourself. Whether your daughter accepts it isn't the point. The fact is they will refer to her as such and think it is OK to do so.

Pop culture has always influenced youth, In this case, it is not influencing them in a positive manner.

~Bang

I think you are overlooking an important part...how adding 'nappy-headed' to being a 'ho' would be insulting to blacks (people that traditionally have nappy hair). That, along with the fact that their sexual promiscuity is not on display to judge is what makes it a terrible statement to repeat. Do you honestly think Imus was making that statement as someone that's tried to understand, empathize, or be a part of hip-hop's culture? Is it soooo far fetched to view his babbling as a prejudiced commentary associating all black women with a culture that is perceived to only ridicule its women? Should the term have been 'mainstream enough', Imus would have never caught the wrath of hell for saying it...

The examples were precedents...all of which illustrate that cursing has not been revolutionized for the first time in civilization by a 30 year old genre of music.

Based upon past behavior, I'd honestly expect Imus to know ALL the stigmas eaten up by the mainstream media in rap music . That doesn't mean he knows much else about the music or could name the multitude or artists that don't follow that protocall...

If as a parent, I don't have more control/influence over the person my child grows into than 'pop' culture, I definitely failed my child as a parent. What confident, self-assured woman is going to allow a man to call them that? Confidence starts at home with parenting...

Guys are always going think that the guy that gets the most girls is the coolest. That transcends musical preference, race, culture, even species... that's our instinctual thought process AS MALES.

[Guest sith lord]

And just to let some of you know, hip-hop doesn't represent Black America.

[Killerbo]

And just to let some of you know, hip-hop doesn't represent Black America.

Thank you , God people here are ridiculous sometimes.

[ccsl2]

i could be wrong, but that statement brought to mind russell simmons and suge knight.

One of th emost powerful record Pables is Interscope. Headed by Jimmy Iovine. His boys are 50 Eminem, Etc.

[Prosperity]

WTF are you talking about, so bcos you have a black person call another black person "my ******" DOES NOT make it right for any person WHITE, black, asian or hispanic to say the same thing.

never said it made it all right... I think I explicitly said the opposite.

Here is what I am getting at:

Such language is common place in many circles of the black community, especially the most visible ones like TV music etc... This type of thing can make it less clear how offensive some words are to people on the outside looking in.

When the meaning of language has become ambiguous or vague I just don't think it can be as bad as if it was more clear.

And yes to me that does mean that the word "******" (n word) shouldn't be as offensive as some people claim it is. (independent of the motivation for its use)

[Bang]

I think you are overlooking an important part...how adding 'nappy-headed' to being a 'ho' would be insulting to blacks (people that traditionally have nappy hair). That, along with the fact that their sexual promiscuity is not on display to judge is what makes it a terrible statement to repeat. Do you honestly think Imus was making that statement as someone that's tried to understand, empathize, or be a part of hip-hop's culture? Is it soooo far fetched to view his babbling as a prejudiced commentary associating all black women with a culture that is perceived to only ridicule its women? Should the term have been 'mainstream enough', Imus would have never caught the wrath of hell for saying it...

I'm not overlooking it. I wasn't discussing it. I jumped in at the point when it became a discussion about the treatment of them as women.

No kidding it's offensive. Never said it wasn't.

The examples were precedents...all of which illustrate that cursing has not been revolutionized for the first time in civilization by a 30 year old genre of music.

Based upon past behavior, I'd honestly expect Imus to know ALL the stigmas eaten up by the mainstream media in rap music . That doesn't mean he knows much else about the music or could name the multitude or artists that don't follow that protocall...

I don't see what that has to do with why he may have thought it was OK. Again, you dance all around it by pointing out what other things have caused. None of that really matters in this case. I didn't say that cursing was revolutionized. But, that doesn't change the fact that certain terms and attitudes have been created and / or perpetuated by the music.

If as a parent, I don't have more control/influence over the person my child grows into than 'pop' culture, I definitely failed my child as a parent. What confident, self-assured woman is going to allow a man to call them that? Confidence starts at home with parenting...

No offense, but that is very wqishful thinking. As a parent, I know that my influence only goes so far. And no matter HOW well you raise your child, he or she is STILL going to be influenced by factors outside of your control. Pop culture is a huge part of that.

Guys are always going think that the guy that gets the most girls is the coolest. That transcends musical preference, race, culture, even species... that's our instinctual thought process AS MALES.

It's not about that. It's about how the girls are treated. And it's about which models are being used as that which is glorified. Being a stud who scores with the women is a bit different than being known as a pimp. One has the connotation of ladies man,, the other a criminal.

~Bang

[@DCGoldPants]

MSNBC isn't going to Simulcast his show anymore.

Wonder if CBS radio will follow

[megared]

When was that the case?

First known reference in Eng. is said to be c.1230 Oxford or London street name Grope****lane, presumably a haunt of prostitutes. Avoided in public speech since 15c.; considered obscene since 17c.

I agree with you 100%. From the time the word was introduced in 1230, the actual word's obscenity has increased since then. in 1390 Chauncer's Canterberry Tales, the usage of the word wasn't considered to be obscene.

[Guest sith lord]

never said it made it all right... I think I explicitly said the opposite.

Here is what I am getting at:

Such language is common place in many circles of the black community, especially the most visible ones like TV music etc... This type of thing can make it less clear how offensive some words are to people on the outside looking in.

When the meaning of language has become ambiguous or vague I just don't think it can be as bad as if it was more clear.

And yes to me that does mean that the word "******" (n word) shouldn't be as offensive as some people claim it is. (independent of the motivation for its use)

You have no idea what you're talking about. Like I said earlier, hip-hop doesn't represent Black America and the n-word is as offensive as it ever was.

[Major Harris]

And just to let some of you know, hip-hop doesn't represent Black America.

and imus doesn't represent white america.

not that either point is really relevant to the thread.

[Prosperity]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Like I said earlier, hip-hop doesn't represent Black America and the n-word is as offensive as it ever was.

So what you are saying is that the real problem is thinking that hip hop represents black America?

[megared]

I'm not overlooking it. I wasn't discussing it. I jumped in at the point when it became a discussion about the treatment of them as women.

No kidding it's offensive. Never said it wasn't.

I don't see what that has to do with why he may have thought it was OK. Again, you dance all around it by pointing out what other things have caused. None of that really matters in this case. I didn't say that cursing was revolutionized. But, that doesn't change the fact that certain terms and attitudes have been created and / or perpetuated by the music.

No offense, but that is very wqishful thinking. As a parent, I know that my influence only goes so far. And no matter HOW well you raise your child, he or she is STILL going to be influenced by factors outside of your control. Pop culture is a huge part of that.

It's not about that. It's about how the girls are treated. And it's about which models are being used as that which is glorified. Being a stud who scores with the women is a bit different than being known as a pimp. One has the connotation of ladies man,, the other a criminal.

~Bang

Bang, that's been the general thought of any new form of music that pushes an envelope. I'd venture to say that the music is a reflection upon a society in which these attitudes already exist. The things Grandmaster Flash rapped about were already in the Bronx... LA was messed up in South Central before NWA. The issues between black men & women far predate rap music as well.

As far as the parental influence argument...all of the people I know (with the exception of those that have emotional problems) that have low self-esteems were reared that way. The women out there that don't have respect for themselves or their body are oftentimes the ones that didn't have a strong male influence in their life.

You are taking the literal meaning of the words and applying the usage to a different context, which doesn't allow you to understand their perspective.

[Guest sith lord]

So what you are saying is that the real problem is thinking that hip hop represents black America?

It seems that a lot of people on this board thinks so. But that is a problem. A lot of whites are saying that "THEY say worse in rap music, where's the outrage" like that justifies what Imus says.

[Prosperity]

It seems that a lot of people on this board thinks so. But that is a problem. A lot of whites are saying that "THEY say worse in rap music, where's the outrage" like that justifies what Imus says.

I don't think it justifies what Imus says, but I think it mitigates the use language like that in general, which is a damn shame. Now I do think that hip hop/rap culture does represent a very large segment of young adult Blacks in America to a significant degree. Am I wrong? Well I am open minded on that topic.

[Bang]

Bang, that's been the general thought of any new form of music that pushes an envelope. I'd venture to say that the music is a reflection upon a society in which these attitudes already exist. The things Grandmaster Flash rapped about were already in the Bronx... LA was messed up in South Central before NWA. The issues between black men & women far predate rap music as well.

As far as the parental influence argument...all of the people I know (with the exception of those that have emotional problems) that have low self-esteems were reared that way. The women out there that don't have respect for themselves or their body are oftentimes the ones that didn't have a strong male influence in their life.

You are taking the literal meaning of the words and applying the usage to a different context, which doesn't allow you to understand their perspective.

OK, so why not explain to me the perspective of why it is becoming OK to refer to women in such a way? Is Imus on the hot seat for calling these women whores, or is he more on the hot seat because they are black and he called them nappy headed? Why did Al Sharpton get involved at all? Over the gender insult, or the racial insult? You know as well as I do why that grand-standing fool opens his mouth, and you know as well as i do what he exploits.

A whore is a whore, literally or not. Calling a woman a "ho" or a whore is not a nice thing, regardless of context. If it is to be deemed offensive, than it must be offensive PERIOD. Not just in some context, or when used by a person not thought to be of the proper color to allow it. By saying your this is an issue between black men and women, i simply get mystified. Are you saying that black men have no respect for women, and that it pre-dates rap music? I'm confused. That sounds like a pretty lousy excuse for this behavior and a really broad generalization.

Again, I don't care about what has happened historically throughout pop culture. It has no bearing on this conversation. I'm talking about this particular aspect of this particular culture that has created the atmosphere for these particular terms. As demonstrated by Don Imus, these very offensive terms are indeed becoming part of mainstream slang and thought.

~Bang

[portisizzle]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/4/10/112340.shtml?s=al&promo_code=321D-1

Howard Stern to Imus: 'Say **** You!

[hu-bison-skinsfan]

Thanks, Imus! Many of us (in the African American community) have been standing on our heads about this issue for years and your comments have given it the proper attention!

Hip-Hop: Anti-Misogyny Message

(including Sharpton’s protests…)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7691775/site/newsweek/

Singer Decries "degrading" Images of Black Women in Music

http://www.fradical.com/Criticism_of_gangsta_rap.htm

N.Y. Minister Combats Negative Rap Lyrics

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_n29_v29/ai_13797252

Ministers Protest Nelly Concert in Arkansas

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2005-03-03-nelly-contest-protest_x.htm

Hip Hop Portrayal of Women Protested

http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/03/03/hip.hop/

Iverson’s Detractors

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/news/2000/10/09/iverson_protests_ap/

Wynton Marsalis Takes on 50 Cent and Hip Hop

http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/news/article/0,,4015938,00.html

Sexism in Rap Sparks Black Magazine to say, 'Enough!'

I'd like to bump my own post and point out that many people in the black community (yes, even Al - though his motives are questionable) have, in fact, gone after the music industry -- and not just famous white men.

Thanks for noticing.

[Bang]

I'd like to bump my own post and point out that many people in the black community (yes, even Al - though his motives are questionable) have, in fact, gone after the music industry -- and not just famous white men.

Thanks for noticing.

I admit i had not noticed. But I read this time, and this is an excellent post.

Hopefully attitudes will change.

~Bang

[Killerbo]

You know what, whatever........ I just guess some WHITE people on this board don't see a WHITE guy calling a basketball team full of black female players "nappy headed hos" as a racist remark. So ****ing sad and has really opened my eyes to the underlying racism that is still in some white people but when asked will say "hey, I'm not racist even if I make racist comments about a partiular race". So sad....

[rincewind]

You know what, whatever........ I just guess some WHITE people on this board don't see a WHITE guy calling a basketball team full of black female players "nappy headed hos" as a racist remark. So ****ing sad and has really opened my eyes to the underlying racism that is still in some white people but when asked will say "hey, I'm not racist even if I make racist comments about a partiular race". So sad....

Who are you ?

[Killerbo]

Who are you ?

Jesse Jackson

[jbooma]

that language is in common usage everywhere by hip hop rap culture or whatever of Black America, which tells me that it shouldn't be so offensive.

Unless you of course are in a work place, yes in every day language when you are with your friends or something it may not be a bid deal, when you are on the job and their are others around that can be offended, then yes it is a big deal.

There comes a point when people need to start using common sense about saying certain things around specific groups etc...

[BAFGA]

This is a sad day in American history. Freedom of speech is dead. Even apologies won't work. And don't say we have free speech, because what we have now is not freedom.

[jbooma]

FYI:

MSNBC drops Imus:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17999196/?GT1=9246

NEW YORK - MSNBC said Wednesday it will drop its simulcast of the “Imus in the Morning” radio program, responding to growing outrage about the radio host’s racial slur against the Rutgers women’s basketball team.

“This decision comes as a result of an ongoing review process, which initially included the announcement of a suspension. It also takes into account many conversations with our own employees,” NBC news said in a statement.

Talk-show host Don Imus triggered the uproar on his April 4 show, when he referred to the mostly black Rutgers women’s basketball team as “nappy-headed hos.” His comments have been widely denounced by civil rights and women’s groups.

The decision does not affect Imus’ nationally syndicated radio show, and the ultimate decision on the fate of that program will rest with executives at CBS Corp. In a statement, CBS reiterated that Imus will be suspended without pay for two weeks beginning on Monday, and that CBS Radio “will continue to speak with all concerned parties and monitor the situation closely.”