Portis barely in top 20 RB list... HOW?

[Cdowwe]

Henry...??? No way Portis is behind him, McGahee, Benson, or Addai.

[BAFGA]

Let's see what Portis does this year.....he's coming back from injury....

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Cedric Benson #15???? Huh!

[#21Taylor4Ever]

SCOTT ENGEL'S CURRENT TOP 40 RBS - March 8

1. LaDainian Tomlinson

2. Larry Johnson

3. Steven Jackson

4. Shaun Alexander

5. Frank Gore

6. Willie Parker

7. Brian Westbrook

8. Rudi Johnson

9. Joseph Addai

10. Ronnie Brown

11. Reggie Bush

12. Deuce McAllister

13. Maurice Jones-Drew

14. Travis Henry

15. Cedric Benson

16. Willis McGahee

17. Laurence Maroney

18. Thomas Jones

19. Edgerrin James

20. Clinton Portis

21. Chester Taylor

22. Marion Barber III

23. Brandon Jacobs

24. Ahman Green

25. Carnell Williams

26. Jamal Lewis

27. Tatum Bell

28. Fred Taylor

29. Julius Jones

30. DeAngelo Williams

31. DeShaun Foster

32. LenDale White

33. Corey Dillon

34. Kevin Jones

35. Ladell Betts

36. Warrick Dunn

37. LaMont Jordan

38. Vernand Morency

39. Jerious Norwood

40. Dominic Rhodes

This is ridicoulous... not only is he much better than at least half of these runnigbacks, but ladell betts is also better. How can you put reggie bush over clinton portis? CLinton (when healthy) has been very consistent, and when you think about it he hasnt been critically injured that much.... I have officially lost all respect for SCOTT ENGEL.

Portis should easily be right behind LT. Gore? Hahaha! The guy has one good year and he's better than CP? Benson? Parker? Whoever made this list obviously has hatred for Portis. I'd love to hear his foolish explaination.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

that list is beyond horrendous. portis and fred taylor both got pwned on that list. lol at him putting cedric benson in the top 40, that guy has been awful throughout his short career, maroney has done nothing other than be a patriot (which i guess puts you in the top 20 automatically), ronnie brown has been OK at best, reggie bush isnt even a real runningback, and travis henry had his first good year since 2003.

if thats a fantasy list then fine, but if thats a real list of who that guy thinks is the best RBs, thats a joke.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Portis should easily be right behind LT. Gore? Hahaha! The guy has one good year and he's better than CP? Benson? Parker? Whoever made this list obviously has hatred for Portis. I'd love to hear his foolish explaination.

larry johnson is better than portis. steven jackson is close. portis doesnt have the plow ability like these two guys do. portis is a poor mans LT. however, hes still better than most of the backs that guy put on the list.

[jrfriedm]

He is a Redskin. By simple addition you find that he gets no respect!!

[December90]

That must be a joke, that is the worst list I have ever seen. Terrible

Portis is TOP-5

Gore????????...ha

I hate to burst your bubble. If I was offered Gore for Portis stright up I would take the deal (Real football or fantasy football does not matter)

Gore is a true stud. If you have not seen him you should.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I hate to burst your bubble. If I was offered Gore for Portis stright up I would take the deal (Real football or fantasy football does not matter)

Gore is a true stud. If you have not seen him you should.

its all about your o-line. gore is good, but lets see if he can repeat what he did this year. we know portis is capable of rushing for 1500+ more than once, gore could be a flash in the pan guy. lets wait and see.

[skinfan31]

Because he doesn't make very many plays when the wholes are not "perfectly" blocked. How many times have you seen him reverse his field and take it for 60 yards. He never takes a short dump passes and juke a player for 25 extra yards. If he gets large chunks of yardage it is because the whole was big enough to drive a truck through. Now he will beat you to the corner from the 10 yard line. But as far as him making something out of nothing. It ain't happenin'.

What are you talking about?...

Eagles game '05.. Watch it.

[playboy1972]

So what you're saying is LaVar is not only the cause of the team losing, but global warming, world hunger and civil unrest?

My main problem is that it seems everytime a young player comes to this city we go crazy over their potential. I don't mean to always jump on LaVar but from the time he first got here every play he would make he would give up anohter one. Big play, bad play. I just got tired of the celebrating on second down and letting a full in the flat on third down. I always thought LaVar would be something special but it was always something. Injury, coaches, scene, playing wrong position, contract disputes, and attitude. The way Portis treats training camp, the whole dress-up, and lack of leadership during the work week. It just gets old to me man.

[Bang]

That is a function his performance in Denver, not here. At some point we have to quit hyping him based on what he did in Denver and start demanding production here on our team. Because one wonders to what extent his performance in Denver was a function of the system. Here are his numbers by season:

2002 Denver 273 carries; 1508 yards; 5.5 ypc

2003 Denver 290 carries; 1591 yards; 5.5 ypc

2004 Wash 343 carries; 1315 yards; 3.8 ypc

2005 Wash 352 carries; 1516 yards; 4.3 ypc

2006 Wash 127 carries; 523 yards; 4.1 ypc

His average ypc in Denver: 5.5 ypc

His average ypc in Wash: 4.08 ypc

Since he has been with us, he has barely average over 4 yards per carry. If you are going to defend and call him elite right now, don't you have to ignore what he did in a different system 4-5 seasons ago? What he has done in Washington has not been anywhere near elite, and the stats show it. Look how much his carries increased and production fell. That is a strong indication that it was the system in Denver that made him what he is. And since he isn't in that system anymore, you can't calculate his value based on what he did then; you have to look at what he has done in Washington.

If you had bothered to look at my post where I actually posted the stats, that "OMG RECORD BREAKING!!!" season ranked 14th on list best seasons over the last 3 years. It wasn't that impressive. And again, based on ypc, Betts would have broken that record last year if he had as many carries as Portis did that season.

You are way over-hyping him if you think he is an elite RB.

He was in Denver. He is not here.

Do you not have any comment on the stats I posted showing that since he has been in a Washington, he is not even in the top 10 in production? Because those stats are based on what he has done for us, not on what he did in Denver.

It's irrelevent what he did where. The fact is he DID do it here versus 8 and 9 man fronts because noodle arm Mark can't back my grandma off the line. Nevermind he ground out a Redskins record when faced with that.

for comparison, Let's look at the top twenty rushers in NFL history, and their first four seasons. (I omitted players who played in eras before the 16 game season, and when it ovelapped, i took their first four years in the 16 game format.)

The list is from the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and was updated 3 weeks ago.

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/release.jsp?release_id=1984

Portis. 4.7 YPC

1. Emmit Smith's first four years ... 4.5 ypc

2. Walter Payton's first four 16 game seasons (Beginning in his 3rd year) he averaged 4.1 ypc ( a mere .2 yards ahead of Portis' split stat you pointed out.. possibly the greatest back in history averaged roughly 7 inches more per carry.)

3. Barry Sanders first four years.. 4.8 YPC

4. Curtis Martin is fourth all time in rushing believe it or not, and his first four years averaged a paltry 3.8 ypc

5. Jerome Bettis 4.0

6. Eric Dickerson's first four years.. 4.7 YPC (Also set the rookie rushing record that still stands, and then set the record for yards in a season that also still stands in that four year span... same average as our boy CP here.)

7. Tony Dorsett (omitted his first year due to 14 game schedule.) For years 2-5 he averaged 4.5

8 is Jim Brown, played in 12 game schedules, not included. Unbalanced comparison.)

9. Marshall Faulk .. 3.7 ypc

10. Marcus Allen (omitted 1982, his rookie year. Strike shortened year.) First four full years he averaged 4.2 YPC

11. Franco Harris played his first six years in 14 game format. The first four years of his 16 game career he put up 3.9 ypc. (IMO not really a fair comparison, but I included it because the Steelers were still a powerhouse and won 2 Super Bowls in the time frame. Franco was not on the downside of his career yet.)

12. Thurman Thomas - 4.5 ypc

13. John Riggins. 3.9 ypc (omitted 1982 due to strike.) Riggo's career is weird for this comparison due to the holdout in 1980 and strike season in 1982. But in his first four 16 game seasons that weren't affected by the strike or holdout, he put up a 3.9 ypc average.

14. OJ Simpson. Omitted. OJ played in the 14 game era for the most part, and only played 2 seasons in the 16 game schedule. Not a balanced comparison.

15. Ricky Watters 4.1 YPC

16. Eddie George- 3.9 YPC

17. Corey Dillon - 4.5 YPC

18. Ottis Anderson (Skipped the 1982 strike year) 4.4 YPC

19. Joe Perry played way before even the 14 game schedule, so he isn't included.

20. Earl Campbell 4.6 ypc

Of these 20, five are not in the Hall of Fame, and 2 are still active. (Unless Faulk has filed retirement papers.) 3 were left out of my comparison due to the era difference

Facts are facts. And the fact is among that list, Portis ranks 2nd.

I think it's funny that WE should start demanding more production out of him. From what, my sofa? Hey CP, I demand you do better against 8 guys in the box.

Downplay the man all you want. I won't because I can see what he's capable of doing. Downplay his record all you want. All that really does is spit in the face of the men who held the record in the past. (Nevermind Portis' YPC in his record breaking year was better than both Riggins when he did it, and Davis when he did it.)

If he manages to stay healthy, and Campbell is able to keep the defense honest like he was towards the end of last year, Portis can be scary good.

~Bang

[skinfan31]

1. Emmit Smith's first four years ... 4.5 ypc

2. Walter Payton's first four 16 game seasons (Beginning in his 3rd year) he averaged 4.1 ypc ( a mere .2 yards ahead of Portis' split stat you pointed out.. possibly the greatest back in history averaged roughly 7 inches more per carry.)

Thanks Bang. I'm tired of seeing Smith get the credit that he does. What he did he did with a great o-line. Payton was just the man. Portis had no help his first 2 years here with noodle arm in the huddle. Last year he had the injuries. He is a team player and gives 100% ON GAMEDAY.

On an unrelated note... my son was born last july............

we named him Clinton.

[SnyderMustGo]

It's irrelevent what he did where.

This is pure lunacy, Bang. And you are smart enough to know that.

His only two good years were with Denver.

He has not replicated that in Washington in the 3 seasons since.

But you want to seriously argue that when projecting his current worth and his future value that you can figure in the two years in Denver as if he will ever replicate it?

Fact: we know that the Denver scheme produced a line of successful running backs who never duplicated their success once leaving. This includes Portis. He was a product of the system there. We know that because when he left, his performance dramatically fell.

Quite simply, you cannot in good conscience argue that Portis is a 4.7 ypc back right now. He was a 5.5 in Denver and has average a mere 4.08 since he as been here. There is no way you can say going into next season that you have a runningback that projects to being a 4.7 ypc back.

I know you are a smart guy, Bang. You should admit the fact that it is completely irrelevant in determining the expected value of Portis right now to figure in what he did in the system in Denver 4-5 seasons ago.

[SnyderMustGo]

I won't because I can see what he's capable of doing.

Yeah, he has showed us Redskins fans what he is capable of here. What he is capable of doing here is average 4.08 yards per carry, not this BS argument that he is capable of 4.7 yards per carry here.

You do realize that we are *not* Denver, right?

(Nevermind Portis' YPC in his record breaking year was better than both Riggins when he did it, and Davis when he did it.)

But significantly less than Betts last season...

[JMS]

I hate to burst your bubble. If I was offered Gore for Portis stright up I would take the deal (Real football or fantasy football does not matter)

Gore is a true stud. If you have not seen him you should.

HELLLO... anybody would take that fantacy trade. Gore doesn't share the backfield. He gets most of the carries in SF. Clinton doesn't get as many touches because of Betts. Also Clinton isn't the short yardage guy so that hurts him with TD's, which is everything in Fantasy.

This list is a pure fantasy list. It's not the same as best NFL back.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

I'll be interested to see where Jacobs ends up next year after a full year as a starter.

[skinfan31]

His only two good years were with Denver.

He has not replicated that in Washington in the 3 seasons since.

I don't understand. Are you saying "05 was not good?Washington RedskinsClinton Portis

1,516

2005

[waterwagen]

This is pure lunacy, Bang. And you are smart enough to know that.

His only two good years were with Denver.

He has not replicated that in Washington in the 3 seasons since.

...

It's interesting, and telling, that you insist on including last year when evaluating him and his stats. And anyone who thinks a 1500 yard year isn't worth mentioning just can't be argued with. :whoknows:

[Taylor 36]

I think his injuries last year have a lot to do with it. He should be in the top 10 but it is not unreasonable to not have him rated that high, now below Edgerrin James is a bit extreme at this point but, ahh its the media and we are skins fans, you should be used to it.

I think this about sums it up.

[CustomApparelDirect]

SCOTT ENGEL'S CURRENT TOP 40 RBS - March 8

1. LaDainian Tomlinson

2. Larry Johnson

3. Steven Jackson

4. Shaun Alexander

5. Frank Gore

6. Willie Parker

7. Brian Westbrook

8. Rudi Johnson

9. Joseph Addai

10. Ronnie Brown

11. Reggie Bush

12. Deuce McAllister

13. Maurice Jones-Drew

14. Travis Henry

15. Cedric Benson

16. Willis McGahee

17. Laurence Maroney

18. Thomas Jones

19. Edgerrin James

20. Clinton Portis

21. Chester Taylor

22. Marion Barber III

23. Brandon Jacobs

24. Ahman Green

25. Carnell Williams

26. Jamal Lewis

27. Tatum Bell

28. Fred Taylor

29. Julius Jones

30. DeAngelo Williams

31. DeShaun Foster

32. LenDale White

33. Corey Dillon

34. Kevin Jones

35. Ladell Betts

36. Warrick Dunn

37. LaMont Jordan

38. Vernand Morency

39. Jerious Norwood

40. Dominic Rhodes

This is ridicoulous... not only is he much better than at least half of these runnigbacks, but ladell betts is also better. How can you put reggie bush over clinton portis? CLinton (when healthy) has been very consistent, and when you think about it he hasnt been critically injured that much.... I have officially lost all respect for SCOTT ENGEL.

ABSOLUTELY. This 'List' is tantamount to "Football 'BLASPHEMY'!?!"

The ONLY 'Possible' RB that might usurp RB Clinton PORTIS is... RB Ladanian TOMLINSON of the San Diego CHARGERS. Period. :doh: :doh: :doh:

[DCranon21]

Name me one RB, besides LT and LJ who will still run for good yardage with 8 in the box. Clinton can do that. I haven't seen a lot of RB's that can do that. Also he was injured last season, and I think he coming healthy for this season, he will be a top 5 RB again.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

that snyder guy just makes some retarded comments. portis rushed for 1500 yards in his last full season and somehow thats bad production. even though he rushed for 1300 + the year before that, his YPC was low, but that happens sometimes. LT the league golden boy had a 3.6 ypc his first year, and a 3.9 in 04, yet hes still considered elite. portis is still young and this season was a wash, the guy is a beast. forget what he did in denver. so far here he has two seasons both with an average of about 1400 yards. thats pretty elite if you ask me.

[Ant15fromNJ]

This list is a big laugh LOL!

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

ABSOLUTELY. This 'List' is tantamount to "Football 'BLASPHEMY'!?!"

The ONLY 'Possible' RB that might usurp RB Clinton PORTIS is... RB Ladanian TOMLINSON of the San Diego CHARGERS. Period. :doh: :doh: :doh:

id rather have steven jackson or larry johnson or LT. theyre all better than portis. jackson and johnson are just straight up mules that can bulldoze people. portis and LT cannot do that, but LT is just better.