dez4theskins Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Last year the game was played in Denver . I didn't hear any of these problems last year. I believe this problem occured because of Las Vegas close proximtiy to L.A. where these gangs exsist. Also moving this game overseas where the thug soccer (football) fans who fight and yell racial slurs at opposing fans would be a great place for the game. I mean they only fight the police before, during and after the game. No matter the police presence. Thats the perfect place to put the next all star game. Spring break in Panama City, Fort Lauderdale, or Miami Beach has never had a rape or any arrest for drugs or assaults on police officers. Its amazing that those statistics are never talked about. Look them up you will be amazed. It also amazes me that in hockey having that thug on your team is okay. You need that enforcer to rough up the other team and get the crowd going. Its evereywhere if you open up your eyes!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 That is an unfair assesment of Vegas. New Year's Eve on the Strip brings a heel of a lot more people than this did. The difference is all the punks and thugs that showed up. Do not assume that "if you stray off the Strip" that it is any worse than any other major city. Yes it is not the safest or smartest thing to do, but, do not make it seem that outside of the Strip it is unsafe. I happen to live "outside" of the Strip in an ordinary average neighborhood and have so for 20 something years. The neighborhoods I live in and have lived in are safer than the neighborhoods I grew up in, in New York City. So, please know what you are talking about before opening the hole under your nose. Actually, I spent NYE in Vegas this year. And I can tell you that I saw tons of fights. Not a couple, but tons. In addition, if you're going to try and tell me that Vegas is a city built on morality....Well........We'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. However, the difference is, there were cops out in full force on NYE. If there weren't, things would've been much worse. So, I'd like to say that I do know a bit about what I'm talking about. Perhaps you should take off your Vegas-tinted glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Only thing I can say is that I attended the NASCAR Winston Cup event in Vegas from 1998-2002 which draws well over 100,000 people to the race and don't remember having to endure anything like this weekend's atmosphere as portrayed in the Whitlock and Simmons articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aszumilo Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I never said Vegas was built on morality. The point you make about Vegas being unsafe is not true. Millions of people travel here every year and you only hear about things when idiots who cannot control themselves start crap. Vegas does have it's problems, like ALL major cities. Labeling Vegas as an unfit city to host an event or get a sports franchise is biased in its own right. Not having lived here your tinted glasses seem to have blinded you to facts. Tell me that any other city is safe outside of the normal tourist corridors. You say you saw "tons" of fights, I will not disagree, but, alcohol and a**holes only cause problems. Many other New Years celebrations, across the country, are marred by fights and drunken disorder. So, before claiming to know about Vegas and how unsafe it is, maybe you should learn a little bit more about the subject you are talking about. My Vegas tinted glasses haven't been worn for years. I have lived lots of places, here, NYC, Phoenix, San Diego, San Fran, Chicago and not one of those cities is any better than the others. All have their problems and all have unsafe areas of town. So coming to Vegas for a few days of drinking and partying may have merit in your own mind, but, it is mostly based on one account during a single event. That does not make your opinion invalid or without merit. It simply cannot be placed into proper prospective, with the negativity you "recall" from a few days. I have lived here for more than a "few" days and I will tell you, that you are wrong about this city. Their are many conventions that come to Vegas, because they feel that it is a good place to come. The MAGIC show (Mens Apparel and Garment Industry Convention) brings close to 200,000 people to town and there has been no problems like what you suggest. It all boils down to the punks and thugs that show up for events like what we see at New Years and for the All Star Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Article seems a bit unfair. Is it a British soccer players' fault that his fans act like Hooligans and get drunk and out of control. The sport isn't in control of the behavior of its fans. Mind you, I didn't read the whole article, but only the part pasted, but if it is indicative than there is no mention of the NBA players acting like idiots only their fans. Honestly, I don't know what Stern could do to legislate fan behavior in a city. He can have folks thrown out of the stadium or have his players preach civility, I suppose, but when I go to a Redskin game my behavior is 90% my decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 If other sports/events are drawing hoods, thugs and hoes to para Whittlock, then let them be chastised as well. The NBA image is a Thug's Life. They embrace it. Despite Sterns efforts to change, it is what it is. Dont shoot the messenger because he tells the story. Im amazed people even tryo to defend the actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Lest we forget where the NBA has been and how little the NBA (or its players) has done to change its image. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11188-2004Nov24.html Hip-Hop Culture Contributes to NBA's Bad Rap By Michael Wilbon Thursday, November 25, 2004; Page D01 Not everything that ails the NBA is solved by the rest-of-the-season suspension of the Indiana Pacers' Ron Artest. It would be irresponsible to suggest anybody should have foreseen a brawl coming. But there have been signs of an increasing disconnect between people who identify themselves as basketball fans and the players they pay to see perform. Ticket holders and fans pay more than ever to see professional basketball, yet it seems they identify less than ever with the players. Some of that backlash was obvious this summer when a U.S. Olympic team of high-profile NBA players was ridiculed, at home and overseas, as pampered and spoiled before the competition had started. Even the players' union chief, Billy Hunter, said on ABC's "Nightline" this week that players have become less accessible than ever. Older NBA players increasingly indicate they'd like to see an age-limit adopted in the effort to keep out kids who clearly haven't served an apprenticeship. And not all the league's problems can be attributed to the players. League and club executives decided to marry the NBA to hip-hop, and clearly didn't know what they were getting into. As my friend Brian Burwell wrote in Tuesday's St. Louis Post-Dispatch, NBA marketing people "thought they were getting Will Smith and LL Cool J. But now they've discovered the dark side of hip-hop has also infiltrated their game, with its 'bling-bling' ostentation, its unrepentant I-gotta-get-paid ruthlessness, its unregulated culture of posses, and the constant underlying threat of violence . . . " click link for rest of article... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConcordNCSkinsFan Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Whitlock has a personal vendetta against the current hip hop culture and the way many of today's young black athletes embrace that culture. This shows up in his writing all the time so it's hard to take his rants seriously. I've been told that the atmosphere in Vegas during the All-Star weekend was no different than if a major Fight was going on in the city. It's just easy to turn it into some kind of spectacle because the NBA was the headliner. Many people want to bash it because a lot of the headline players don't have the "squeky clean, all america, Michael Jordan persona" they can identify with. These people need to wake up!!! If you are still stuck in the Leave it to Beaver/Ozzie and Harriet times, and you can't relate to a person because they may have their hair braided, wear tatoos/jewelry, have kids and not be married, or went straight from High School to the Pros that's your problem. The NBA has worked to improve the play in the game which I will admit took a nose dive since the early 80's and early 90's, but nobody will give the league credit for proactive steps that have been taken to improve the league and for pioneering diversity in Coaching, Management, and Ownership. Why don't the same people who bash the NBA because it is too thuggish bash Baseball for letting guys shoot Steroids for years, Hockey for letting brawls occur nightly, NASCAR for letting Drivers tweak their Cars so they can cheat to win, and all the "GOOD OLE BOYS" in NCAA Football who don't want to let minorities coach their Football teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 "Why don't the same people who bash the NBA because it is too thuggish bash Baseball for letting guys shoot Steroids for years, Hockey for letting brawls occur nightly, NASCAR for letting Drivers tweak their Cars so they can cheat to win, and all the "GOOD OLE BOYS" in NCAA Football who don't want to let minorities coach their Football teams" I suggest you read some of Whitlocks articles about some of those things. There are plenty of people calling foul with what you mention, and with good reason. It's wrong though on your part to dismiss the actions of the NBA and the thugs that play and/or are fans of the NBA, by simply pointing out problems elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 These people need to wake up!!! If you are still stuck in the Leave it to Beaver/Ozzie and Harriet times, and you can't relate to a person because they may have their hair braided, wear tatoos/jewelry, have kids and not be married, or went straight from High School to the Pros that's your problem.. nice diversion. but i think it has more to do with the people that feared for their safety, the patrons walking out on their bills, shots being fired, waitresses having food thrown on them, multiple fights, etc. and just so you don't forget: whitlocks article is not about the nba's players. it's about the image that the league is aligned with. that's plain for all to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Whitlock has a personal vendetta against the current hip hop culture and the way many of today's young black athletes embrace that culture. . Your take on Michael Wilbon the same??? Or does every sportswriter and journalist who is both black and ridiculing the NBA have a "personal vendetta"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzpackage Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Not gonna say much because the entire gambit has been covered for the most part but it's important to point out how big of an enterprise not just the NBA but sports in general have become. Someone else made a good point about the pugnacious older players like Lambeer, but the only difference between that era and this era is the economics. It's essentially not the same league anymore because of the money. Too much is at stake money-wise to not address some of the underlying concerns about the possibility of arena sponsors backing out or a regression in ticket sales. Basically, how the NBA is perceived is objective from person to person, but I think the disconnect between the older league owners and executives and the hip-hop culture and younger players just has a few people in suits looking down the road 20 years and sweating their balls off. After all, the owners and sponsors view this as a long term investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Not gonna say much because the entire gambit has been covered for the most part but it's important to point out how big of an enterprise not just the NBA but sports in general have become. Someone else made a good point about the pugnacious older players like Lambeer, but the only difference between that era and this era is the economics. It's essentially not the same league anymore because of the money. Too much is at stake money-wise to not address some of the underlying concerns about the possibility of arena sponsors backing out or a regression in ticket sales. Basically, how the NBA is perceived is objective from person to person, but I think the disconnect between the older league owners and executives and the hip-hop culture and younger players just has a few people in suits looking down the road 20 years and sweating their balls off. After all, the owners and sponsors view this as a long term investment. The internet is a nice thing. Here is an "Outside the Lines" piece about this topic. From 2000. I think your assessment is on target. Check out the article from 2000. Quite interesting in retrospect...... http://sports.espn.go.com/page2/tvlistings/show33transcript.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/basketball/4392182.stm Stern, however, is adamant that the new dress code for public appearances, including arriving at and departing arenas and sitting on the bench out of uniform, will be adhered to. "The way that you will get suspended is if you flat-out refuse to do something," he said. "Teams will be responsible for enforcement. We're looking at the spirit of the law, not the letter." Stern, won unlikely support from NBA great Charles Barkley, who had numerous run-ins with authority during his often controversial career. He told the Los Angeles Times newspaper: "Black kids dress like NBA players but don't get paid like NBA players. "So when they go out in the real world, what they wear is held against them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Not gonna say much because the entire gambit has been covered for the most part but it's important to point out how big of an enterprise not just the NBA but sports in general have become. Someone else made a good point about the pugnacious older players like Lambeer, but the only difference between that era and this era is the economics. It's essentially not the same league anymore because of the money. Too much is at stake money-wise to not address some of the underlying concerns about the possibility of arena sponsors backing out or a regression in ticket sales. Basically, how the NBA is perceived is objective from person to person, but I think the disconnect between the older league owners and executives and the hip-hop culture and younger players just has a few people in suits looking down the road 20 years and sweating their balls off. After all, the owners and sponsors view this as a long term investment. In twenty years I think it would have expanded overseas (China,Taiwan,Europe) and the funding stream would have shifted anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 In twenty years I think it would have expanded overseas (China,Taiwan,Europe) and the funding stream would have shifted anyway. Are you sure the "it" from the overseas is not expanding on the NBA?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Are you sure the "it" from the overseas is not expanding on the NBA?? The NBA desperately wants to expand in Europe but the arena structure is not there.But with European soccer clubs pushing hard here , the NBA is jumping on the globilization bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I never said Vegas was built on morality. The point you make about Vegas being unsafe is not true. Millions of people travel here every year and you only hear about things when idiots who cannot control themselves start crap. Vegas does have it's problems, like ALL major cities. Labeling Vegas as an unfit city to host an event or get a sports franchise is biased in its own right. Not having lived here your tinted glasses seem to have blinded you to facts. Tell me that any other city is safe outside of the normal tourist corridors. You say you saw "tons" of fights, I will not disagree, but, alcohol and a**holes only cause problems. Many other New Years celebrations, across the country, are marred by fights and drunken disorder. So, before claiming to know about Vegas and how unsafe it is, maybe you should learn a little bit more about the subject you are talking about. My Vegas tinted glasses haven't been worn for years. I have lived lots of places, here, NYC, Phoenix, San Diego, San Fran, Chicago and not one of those cities is any better than the others. All have their problems and all have unsafe areas of town. So coming to Vegas for a few days of drinking and partying may have merit in your own mind, but, it is mostly based on one account during a single event. That does not make your opinion invalid or without merit. It simply cannot be placed into proper prospective, with the negativity you "recall" from a few days. I have lived here for more than a "few" days and I will tell you, that you are wrong about this city. Their are many conventions that come to Vegas, because they feel that it is a good place to come. The MAGIC show (Mens Apparel and Garment Industry Convention) brings close to 200,000 people to town and there has been no problems like what you suggest. It all boils down to the punks and thugs that show up for events like what we see at New Years and for the All Star Game. Soooooo......Let's see. Now, I love visiting Vegas. It's fun. But, what is Vegas's motto? What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas? People go to Vegas to get nuts (not everybody, but lots of people). It is not tame. And, to top it off, they decided not to have an overwhelming police force ON THE STREET during all-star weekend? The Casinos run Vegas. I'm sure that if a fight had broken out INSIDE of the casinos, there would be an overwhelming police force to respond (in addition to the casino's security). Outside of the casino, apparently, not so much. So, we're at odds here. Undoubtedly the idiots are to blame for their behavior, and are certainly culpable for their crimes. However, who do we blame for not being prepared to handle the influx of people? Las Vegas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzpackage Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 The NBA desperately wants to expand in Europe but the arena structure is not there.But with European soccer clubs pushing hard here , the NBA is jumping on the globilization bandwagon. I was going to make a point that current revenue sharing in the NBA couldn't support an overseas expansion but the numbers don't lie. I assumed attendance is poor, but 21 out of the 30 teams have attendance over 80%. The 76ers are the lowest at 68% and Charlotte is around 75%. Not too bad considering most games are during the week. I guess the point is the NBA is still a very popular sport despite my disgust for it. If they'd just play defense and not travel everytime they get the ball, but that's a different topic...... Here is the attendance link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?sort=home_pct&year=2007&seasonType=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I was going to make a point that current revenue sharing in the NBA couldn't support an overseas expansion but the numbers don't lie. I assumed attendance is poor, but 21 out of the 30 teams have attendance over 80%. The 76ers are the lowest at 68% and Charlotte is around 75%. Not too bad considering most games are during the week.I guess the point is the NBA is still a very popular sport despite my disgust for it. If they'd just play defense and not travel everytime they get the ball, but that's a different topic...... Here is the attendance link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?sort=home_pct&year=2007&seasonType=2 Why does the NBA disgust you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Maybe people took that saying "what happens in vegas stays in vegas to far" :laugh: :laugh: When the allstar game was here in dc a while back there not many issues. Just because a group of gang memebers were causing issues does not mean they are connected to anyone in the NBA. This is a flawed arguement because if you want to get technical I would say the guys in the NFL get busted for worst things then the NBA guys do. Last I checked no one has killed anyone in the NBA like someone did in the NFL etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Why does the NBA disgust you? I guess the point is the NBA is still a very popular sport despite my disgust for it. If they'd just play defense and not travel everytime they get the ball, but that's a different topic...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Maybe people took that saying "what happens in vegas stays in vegas to far" :laugh: :laugh: When the allstar game was here in dc a while back there not many issues. Just because a group of gang memebers were causing issues does not mean they are connected to anyone in the NBA. This is a flawed arguement because if you want to get technical I would say the guys in the NFL get busted for worst things then the NBA guys do. Last I checked no one has killed anyone in the NBA like someone did in the NFL etc... what was that guys name....limo driver killed....cover up.....he played for the nets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 what was that guys name....limo driver killed....cover up.....he played for the nets... Jayson Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 what was that guys name....limo driver killed....cover up.....he played for the nets... he was also out of the league i think when that happend and was already doing tv, he didn't mean to kill him just tried to cover it up the wrong way so there was no intent there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.