Question for Christians

[twa]

I still want to know what happened to the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Greeks, etc.

Dude...Adam lived for 939 years? Sweet! Our life span sure has declined lately. Did they have a calendar 3000 years ago?

certainly they had calendars

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0002061.html

What was the question about the Greeks,ect?

[DeanCollins]

1 It is my belief that you can come to know God w/o reading or hearing about him,simply through observing his creation and the Holy Spirit.

I differ from a lot of Christians in that I believe while Jesus is the means of our salvation a person can be saved by simply trusting God.

so your's is a non-denominational belief?

[twa]

so your's is a non-denominational belief?

I am of the Baptist denomination, but that is NOT a official baptist doctrine.

Of course we do not believe a certain denomination is a requirement for salvation either.

Salvation is thru Jesus Christ not the name on a building.

[70th Week]

You'd have to understand the Hebrew understanding of Sheol.

[edit]

Many people, like myself, believe that the idea of Sheol; the place of the dead, commonly translated as Hell or Hades; is still the the same today as it was then. Think of it like a place where all go until the end times when the final judgment will come. But, not all hold this view.[/edit]

Asbury,I have a question.Please explain this:

Luke 16

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame

Now,clearly both lived in Abraham's time and clearly both were not at the same place,or in Sheol,as you say.Or was Abraham's bosom also located in hell? :whoknows:

[DeanCollins]

Well I consider myself a Catholic, but my belief system varies and your statement: "you can come to know God w/o reading or hearing about him,simply through observing his creation and the Holy Spirit." to me means a God by another name......is still God.

Perhaps the question is: What is God's mission for the people on earth?

Is it to influence/guide the way we live our lives? Or to test us pass or fail with one trick question?

This is a deffinate disconnect between a "loving and forgiving God" and an exacting and punishing God. A good part of the bible, regadless of who's version, is to sell that brand thru fear much like a lot of the advertisments in the media today. It's simply good for business.

[Mr. S]

This makes me want to read the first book of Dante's The Divine Comedy :laugh:

I think you find all your answeres about what happened to people before Christ there, heh.

Anyways, on a more serious note, I always find the history of religions fascinating, and have taken courses that have touched on it (like all the church councils during my Byzantine History course). Does anyone know of a good book that looks at Christianity from a Historical Content. I guess I could also read the Old Testament, but those phrases can be misinterpreted. I don't care if the author is a devout Christian/Catholic or not, just a good history book that will incorporate parts of The Bible into it.

Thanks!

[Raub]

What was the question about the Greeks,ect?

Did they all go to 'hell' for being polytheistic?

[prophet]

Now,clearly both lived in Abraham's time and clearly both were not at the same place,or in Sheol,as you say.Or was Abraham's bosom also located in hell? :whoknows:

Abrahams's bosom was/is insight of hell.

[prophet]

Alright I have three scenarios, that I have asked Christians before and gotten shaky answers at best:

1. What happens to the present day (hypothetical) Amazonian who has never seen or heard of Jesus Christ and no missonaries have ever visited?

2. What happens to a baby that is killed after baptism who never chose or rejected Jesus?

3. What happens to a baby that is killed before baptism? /aborted fetuses.

I am not God, but I can go by what his Word says.

While in this day, and age it is very rare for atleast 1 person of a "people" type to not hear the gospel... I guess its still possible. The bible clearly states that God reveals himself. Thats how Abraham came to know God as he did. The NT also clearly states that you have to be "born again", and that is through Jesus Christ, and that you have to live faithful to Him to the end.

2 & 3: Can be very divided btw "Christians", and many of the claims about the beliefs are not biblical, but what does the bible say about children that die before baptism? Nothing at all to my knowledge. I believe this is just a tradition that started with augustine. He had many controversial beliefs. What does it say about aborted fetuses? Nothing, but what the bible does say about babies or children and general is this.

Is there an age of accountability?

1 Cor 7:12-16

If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

This says the unbelieving or believing parents will either cover or not cover the children until they come to an accountable age. So basicly what the parents belief will either cover or not cover the child.

Since we are all born in sin, that includes babies.

John 9:34

They retorted, You were wholly born in sin [from head to foot]; and do you [presume to] teach us? So they cast him out [threw him clear outside the synagogue].

Romans 5:

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

This is why the abortion issue is such a huge deal to me.

[twa]

Did they all go to 'hell' for being polytheistic?

Were they all polytheistic?....seems like a generalization.

I am sure some came to know God whatever the name they called the great I Am.

[Raub]

Ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Phoenicians were all polytheistic.

If I believe in Zeus and the rest of the gods, but was never exposed to Christianity....am I going to hell?

[prophet]

Ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Phoenicians were all polytheistic.

If I believe in Zeus and the rest of the gods, but was never exposed to Christianity....am I going to hell?

Since again this is a question for christians, not a debate. Let's keep this inmind.

Yes, According to the bible if you do not turn away from the other "gods" and follow Jesus as God. With all your mind, heart, and soul. You are headed towards hell.

But the great news is you don't have to go. Read the book of Matthew, and it will tell you what you need to do.

[Zguy28]

Asbury,I have a question.Please explain this:

Luke 16

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame

Now,clearly both lived in Abraham's time and clearly both were not at the same place,or in Sheol,as you say.Or was Abraham's bosom also located in hell? :whoknows:

I think its important to lay down some groundwork for what we are talking about here.

In the Scriptures, there are several words translated as or that have come to be associated with Hell.

Tartarus- the holding place of fallen angels, a dungeon of sorts. Originally a word of Hellenistic/Greek origin (which isn't surprising since the NT was written in Greek). May also be the Abyss referred to in the Revelation of John. See 2 Peter 2:4.

Hades-Hades is the holding place of the wicked dead. It is often translated as Hell, especially in King James Bibles. See Luke 16 and Revelation 20.

Abraham's Bosom/Paradise- This is the where the righteous dead go. See Luke 16.

Sheol- In the OT, this is where the dead go. Also translated as "grave" or "pit". Many speculate that this is the same as Hades in the NT and that Paradise actually was in Sheol/Hades before Christ's crucifixion, after which it was somehow moved to Heaven, since Paul states that the righteous dead go to be with the Lord; see Luke 16 & 2 Corinthians 5.

Gehenna- commonly known as the Lake of Fire from the Revelation of John. This is the true Hell. The place of everlasting punishment according to Jesus, originally prepared for the Devil and the Fallen angels. See Matt 25 & Revelation 20.

[Zguy28]

Ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Phoenicians were all polytheistic.

If I believe in Zeus and the rest of the gods, but was never exposed to Christianity....am I going to hell?

As far as I can tell, those never knowing of Jesus will not be judged on whether they believed in Christ, but by how they violated their own consciences. Who hasn't done that?

Those that have heard about Jesus (which includes anyone reading these threads ) will be judged on what they did with Jesus. This determines your destination.

[Raub]

As far as I can tell, those never knowing of Jesus will not be judged on whether they believed in Christ, but by how they violated their own consciences. Who hasn't done that?

Those that have heard about Jesus (which includes anyone reading these threads ) will be judged on what they did with Jesus. This determines your destination.

So if I know of Christianity, but don't necessarily believe in it, I am going to hell no matter how virtuous of a life I lead?

So all other religions are basically going to hell?

I'm not trying to stir anything up here, I'm really curious to hear answers to this stuff.

[Zguy28]

So if I know of Christianity, but don't necessarily believe in it, I am going to hell no matter how virtuous of a life I lead?

If you have heard the Gospel, then yes.

So all other religions are basically going to hell?

Jesus did make it pretty exclusive when he said:

"You know the way to the place where I am going."

Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Again, if they have heard about Christ, yes. If not, well it falls on their conscience, which God the Father has given all of us.

I'm not trying to stir anything up here, I'm really curious to hear answers to this stuff.

That is much appreciated. We will endeavor to not be "preachy".

[Big Weirdo]

I was dragged to a sermon once and one of the things brought up was "What about people that have never heard of Jesus or God? What happens to them?" The pastor then proceeded to make quite possibly the worst argument (which has been made twice in here already) I think I have ever heard.

He simply stated that someone who had never heard of God, no matter where they be, could simply deduce from his surroundings that there HAD to be a God. This person would say "Wow! Look at these trees! The sky!! The grass! There is no way I made all of this!" I almost had to burst out laughing thinking that people actually believe this.

What about mentally ill kids? Do they get a free ride too? Or do they realize that God made them retarded and so therefore they're also going to Heaven?

[Air Force Cane]

does it really make a difference?

If the Muslims are correct- all of us on Extremeskins except for 3 are going to He!! anyway..

[Zguy28]

I was dragged to a sermon once and one of the things brought up was "What about people that have never heard of Jesus or God? What happens to them?" The pastor then proceeded to make quite possibly the worst argument (which has been made twice in here already) I think I have ever heard.

He simply stated that someone who had never heard of God, no matter where they be, could simply deduce from his surroundings that there HAD to be a God. This person would say "Wow! Look at these trees! The sky!! The grass! There is no way I made all of this!" I almost had to burst out laughing thinking that people actually believe this.

What about mentally ill kids? Do they get a free ride too? Or do they realize that God made them retarded and so therefore they're also going to Heaven?

Actually the founders of Christianity believed the same thing and so do I. I find it incredible that people can't tell there is a God when looking at creation. :2cents:

[Big Weirdo]

Actually the founders of Christianity believed the same thing and so do I. I find it incredible that people can't tell there is a God when looking at creation. :2cents:

What if they come up with a different name for this God? Then he's not the same one the Christians worship. Are they going to hell then?

[Zguy28]

What if they come up with a different name for this God? Then he's not the same one the Christians worship.

Its not the name that necessarily matters when speaking about God. Its His attributes. For example, the Muslims believe they are worshipping the same God as the Christians. Not true. The Christian God (YHWH/Jesus) is incompatible with Allah.

Are they going to hell then?

Yes. There is no other name under heaven by which we can be saved. Jesus, the only begotten Son of God.

[Coach Williams]

This thread is *very nice*

I'm just sitting back and reading this time....for the time being.....:laugh:

[robotfire]

not an expert on this but....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham's_bosom

Not an expert? Looks like we've got a false prophet on our hands, my friends.

[ProBowler]

I have a couple of questions.

1st- Was the "serpent" in the garden of Eden who tricked Eve into eating from the tree of knowledge really a snake in the "literal" sense? If not, who and what was this thing that was represented as a snake?

2nd- If Adam and Eve were the first 2 people created and had 2 sons Cain and Able how did they go on to populate the world? Was it incest? Always heard incest was the best!:laugh:

[70th Week]

I think its important to lay down some groundwork for what we are talking about here.

In the Scriptures, there are several words translated as or that have come to be associated with Hell.

Tartarus- the holding place of fallen angels, a dungeon of sorts. Originally a word of Hellenistic/Greek origin (which isn't surprising since the NT was written in Greek). May also be the Abyss referred to in the Revelation of John. See 2 Peter 2:4.

Hades-Hades is the holding place of the wicked dead. It is often translated as Hell, especially in King James Bibles. See Luke 16 and Revelation 20.

Abraham's Bosom/Paradise- This is the where the righteous dead go. See Luke 16.

Sheol- In the OT, this is where the dead go. Also translated as "grave" or "pit". Many speculate that this is the same as Hades in the NT and that Paradise actually was in Sheol/Hades before Christ's crucifixion, after which it was somehow moved to Heaven, since Paul states that the righteous dead go to be with the Lord; see Luke 16 & 2 Corinthians 5.

Gehenna- commonly known as the Lake of Fire from the Revelation of John. This is the true Hell. The place of everlasting punishment according to Jesus, originally prepared for the Devil and the Fallen angels. See Matt 25 & Revelation 20.

Jude states this about Sodom and Gomorrah:

6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

this also pertains to my stand on Hades and paradise not being the same in the O.T.as my original post of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus,as in Sodom and Gomorrah there was punishment for the wicked.Why was the rich man in torment and Lazarus not?(if they were in the same place)why was sodom and gomorrah and example of punishment for us?

It is said that there was a great gulf at that time between paradise and hades where they could see each other but not get to each other:

Luke16:26"And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."

Also it is said that paradise is now empty for when Jesus was crucified He spent those three days in the heart of the earth ministering to those in paradise.

Matthew 12:40"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

And yes,Hell and the lake of fire is a totally different place for the lake of fire is where the non-righteous damned will spend eternity:

Revelation 20:14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.