WP: Coordinator Assumes Old Defensive Crouch (part III)

[fansince62]

:laugh:...It's like a double negative..."Someone told me that Williams did not say to not let Pierce go"...It's like the absence of something proves its existence.

well...

X = stated to snyder

Y = said Pierce is irreplaceable

X | not-X | Y | not-Y | not-X and not-Y

T F T F F

T F F T F

F T T F F

F T F T T

(not-X AND not-Y) can only be true when X and Y are both false....as asserted in the article....so...fellow sleuths....he did not talk to snyder and he did not say that Pierce is irreplaceable......there ya go! we didn't need a coach to tell us on the basis of first hand experience the truth of the matter! (it was Mr Mustard in the lockerroom with the writer's hatchette all along!)

and just because WMDs weren't found doesn't mean they don't exist!!! right?

[jbooma]

Please get rid of Greg Williams, this is the same **** he pulled before he was fired in Buffalo.

[fansince62]

Please get rid of Greg Williams, this is the same **** he pulled before he was fired in Buffalo.

JBOOMA...what's the standard here? He coached two great seasons as DC. do we bail at the first sign of trouble?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

One point on the loss of Pierce.

Pierce is not irreplaceable. He's a good inside linebacker but he is not transcendant. He is eminently replaceable.

The problem is that the Skins had no one who could adequately replace him.

Teams like the Steelers and Patriots let players walk all the time. But they usually already have the heir apparent behind them. We had to convert a good outside linebacker into a poor inside linebacker, thereby weakening two positions.

[jbooma]

JBOOMA...what's the standard here? He coached two great seasons as DC. do we bail at the first sign of trouble?

We bail out before it gets worse, when he is telling the WP that the cover 2 is not effective anymore and then instead of trying to find ways to improve it we give up 500 yards, yes give the job to one of the other coaches on the D so there is not much change.

My problem with Williams is he is undermining Gibbs, and is one of the main reasons why we suffered this year.

All of his blitzes this year were terribly disguised and was block almost every time.

[bubba9497]

Please get rid of Greg Williams, this is the same **** he pulled before he was fired in Buffalo.

please get a clue

even the best coaches have bad years now and then, even Gibs I had a 7-9 year, thing happen, players get injured, things go wrong despite the coaches best efforts, Williams track record earns him a year or two pass to get back on track.

Reid went 6-10, and was 5-6 this season, ended up winning the east, After winnng the Super Bowl the Pats missed the playoffs, but rebounded to win 2 more, the Steelers faltered this season....

Phil Fulmer had his first losing season at UT but rebounded this year,.... it happens

sometimes a little patience is rewarded

[Dirk Diggler]

We bail out before it gets worse, when he is telling the WP that the cover 2 is not effective anymore and then instead of trying to find ways to improve it we give up 500 yards, yes give the job to one of the other coaches on the D so there is not much change.

That worked out real well with George Edwards.

[TheLongshot]

Pierce is not irreplaceable. He's a good inside linebacker but he is not transcendant. He is eminently replaceable.

The problem is that the Skins had no one who could adequately replace him.

Well, last year, Marshall was quite adequate in replacing Pierce, so there goes your argument. As to whether or not he's still adequate, that is up to Williams to decide.

But, it isn't like they didn't try to address it. In the past two years, the Redskins have drafted four LBs and have brought in numerous RFAs to compete, and all that was able to stick was Rocky and McCune (and now McCune is gone).

Now, you can say it was poor drafting, or not being able to find the right players, but you can't say that they haven't tried.

Jason

[bubba9497]

We bail out before it gets worse, when he is telling the WP that the cover 2 is not effective anymore and then instead of trying to find ways to improve it we give up 500 yards, yes give the job to one of the other coaches on the D so there is not much change.

yeah, I mean it is so easy to change an entire defensive scheme in one week, with your two best players on injured reserve, 3 other starters getting injured, having to play guys off the practice squad and starting a guy you sign after the season began

what's wrong with Williams :mad:

jbooma it's posts like these that make me question your sanity :laugh:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Well, last year, Marshall was quite adequate in replacing Pierce, so there goes your argument. As to whether or not he's still adequate, that is up to Williams to decide.

But, it isn't like they didn't try to address it. In the past two years, the Redskins have drafted four LBs and have brought in numerous RFAs to compete, and all that was able to stick was Rocky and McCune (and now McCune is gone).

Now, you can say it was poor drafting, or not being able to find the right players, but you can't say that they haven't tried.

Jason

I didn't think Marshall was that great last year to be honest. The defense declined noticeably until Williams got them insanely hot during that five-game streak. If you remember early last year, long runs were fairly commonplace against the D. They were non-existant in '04.

Also, Marshall's move to MLB necessitated putting in Holdman at OLB. And we know how that has worked out.

I think Marshall could probably be "average" if he was playing between a healthy Washington and a healthy Arrington. In fact, he was most effective last year when that was the case. Still, the dropoff from Pierce to Marshall was noticeable in '05 and dramatic in '06.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

please get a clue

even the best coaches have bad years now and then, even Gibs I had a 7-9 year, thing happen, players get injured, things go wrong despite the coaches best efforts, Williams track record earns him a year or two pass to get back on track.

Reid went 6-10, and was 5-6 this season, ended up winning the east, After winnng the Super Bowl the Pats missed the playoffs, but rebounded to win 2 more, the Steelers faltered this season....

Phil Fulmer had his first losing season at UT but rebounded this year,.... it happens

sometimes a little patience is rewarded

In fairness, Williams does have a history of wearing out his welcome in a hurry.

There is a lot of Buddy Ryan inside him.

The impression I get is that players love playing for him for one or two years and then start to dread him.

[skinfan2k]

i think the probelm is that the redskins need a DT to be healthy at all times and commanding double teams like griffin.. get branch and a solid cb to be the #1 or to play along side rogers and i think this defense can play up to par

[CPortJGibbs89]

Damn Uno Boss your on fire and your dead on about this the offense ruined our defense crap I cant believe they would even try to point that out as the reason. The part about Williams not telling Danny Pierce is expendable, I had to read that part 3 or 4 times to make sure I was getting it right.

[TheLongshot]

I didn't think Marshall was that great last year to be honest. The defense declined noticeably until Williams got them insanely hot during that five-game streak. If you remember early last year' date=' long runs were fairly commonplace against the D. They were non-existant in '04.[/quote']

Note, I'm using your word: adequate. No, he didn't play as well as Pierce, but he was pretty solid in there. The decline in the defense probably could be put more on Harris and Holdman, both of which didn't see much action during the streak.

Also, Marshall's move to MLB necessitated putting in Holdman at OLB. And we know how that has worked out.

That wasn't the plan. They hoped that Lavar would be ready for the season. Unfortunately, he wasn't ready until halfway through the season. So, they picked up Holdman and hoped that he'd do there. Unfortunately, he struggled.

I think Marshall could probably be "average" if he was playing between a healthy Washington and a healthy Arrington.

Which also means he could be with a heathy Washington and a healthy Mcintosh.

Jason

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

That wasn't the plan. They hoped that Lavar would be ready for the season. Unfortunately, he wasn't ready until halfway through the season. So, they picked up Holdman and hoped that he'd do there. Unfortunately, he struggled.

Have you ever noticed how many times you defend the team by saying, "That wasn't the plan!"

Holdman was forced to start for two years, but that was never the plan.

Archuleta was forced into coverage duty, but that was never the plan.

Our passing game was nothing but screens and 5-yard button-hooks for 5 weeks, but that was never the plan.

Not to go completely Dennis Miller on you, but I have not seen this kind of over-reliance on a plan since Yamamoto. We don't react terribly well to events any longer, which is kind of amazing considering that Gibbs built his reputation by creating magnificent halftime adjustments.

Which also means he could be with a heathy Washington and a healthy Mcintosh.

Maybe. If Washington is healthy and if McIntosh is any good. I'd rather just get a good MLB and let Marshall play in a position where he is more comfortable. If 2006 has taught us anything, it is don't ask players to perform jobs they can't do. Andre Carter ain't a run-stopper. Archuleta ain't a coverage guy. Sean Taylor ain't a thinker. Marshall ain't Brian Urlacher.

Williams is asking rooks to play the role of knights and pawns to be bishops and it's kind of a mess.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

Have you ever noticed how many times you defend the team by saying' date=' "That wasn't the plan!"

Holdman was forced to start for two years, but that was never the plan.

Archuleta was forced into coverage duty, but that was never the plan.

Our passing game was nothing but screens and 5-yard button-hooks for 5 weeks, but that was never the plan.

Not to go completely Dennis Miller on you, but I have not seen this kind of over-reliance on a plan since Yamamoto. We don't react terribly well to events any longer, which is kind of amazing considering that Gibbs built his reputation by creating magnificent halftime adjustments.

Maybe. If Washington is healthy and if McIntosh is any good. I'd rather just get a good MLB and let Marshall play in a position where he is more comfortable. If 2006 has taught us anything, it is don't ask players to perform jobs they can't do. Andre Carter ain't a run-stopper. Archuleta ain't a coverage guy. Sean Taylor ain't a thinker. Marshall ain't Brian Urlacher.

Williams is asking rooks to play the role of knights and pawns to be bishops and it's kind of a mess.[/quote']

Literally took the words out of my mouth.

And Uno Boss is killing it today. Good stuff. :laugh:

.

[jbooma]

yeah, I mean it is so easy to change an entire defensive scheme in one week, with your two best players on injured reserve, 3 other starters getting injured, having to play guys off the practice squad and starting a guy you sign after the season began

what's wrong with Williams :mad:

jbooma it's posts like these that make me question your sanity :laugh:

Sorry bubba but his actions this year has undermined Gibbs and for you to be such a redskin homer then wouldn't you want to back Gibbs over Williams??

That is what I question.

[TheLongshot]

Not to go completely Dennis Miller on you' date=' but I have not seen this kind of over-reliance on a plan since Yamamoto. We don't react terribly well to events any longer, which is kind of amazing considering that Gibbs built his reputation by creating magnificent halftime adjustments.[/quote']

When you have key injuries, sometimes there isn't much that can be done. You gotta play with the players you have, and whatever plan you had has to change.

Holdman was a pretty good player at one time, and they felt that he could come in and fill in for Lavar while he was healing. Happens it didn't work out, but it wasn't a bad plan.

I think they adjusted to the Arch situation fairly well. They were able to find Troy Vincent, and later on, Vernon Fox played fairly decently in that role as well.

Maybe. If Washington is healthy and if McIntosh is any good. I'd rather just get a good MLB and let Marshall play in a position where he is more comfortable.

And where are we going to get this good MLB? As far as I can tell, there aren't really any available on the free agent market, and there probably won't be any answers in the draft this year. Fact is, we are probably stuck with Marshall in the middle.

If 2006 has taught us anything, it is don't ask players to perform jobs they can't do. Andre Carter ain't a run-stopper. Archuleta ain't a coverage guy. Sean Taylor ain't a thinker. Marshall ain't Brian Urlacher.

And guess what: they weren't brought in here for those reasons. Don't assign roles to players which they weren't given in the first place.

Jason

[PapaDRoc]

To me this article almost seemed to refute the Friend article. Instead of stating that Williams was too hard on his players, the article had quotes from players who used to play for Williams saying that they loved his no nonsense attitude. Many players claimed that guys who complained are "soft" and Lawyer Milloy's quote on this being a "man's league" got me pumped up about GW again.

I thought it was strange how Williams and AP are so close despite the fact that earlier in the article, it is written that GW was the entire reason why AP left. That doesn't make much sense does it??

To me the problem with this defense is the lack of talent. We need help on the entire d-line, and tremendous depth in the secondary including a possible new, younger corner. I say we slowly transition Springs to play safety and sign Clements. Free agent CB's have had a lot of success in many cases around the league (Ken Lucas, Samari Rolle). The obvious problem with this move is whether Springs will embrace the position change, but I think it would greatly benefit the defense.

And on GW's part, he needs to prevent any core skins on D to sign elsewhere, and he needs to figure out why every team in the NFL has exploited our cover 2 with such ease. :2cents:

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

The article seems like someone wanted it out there. Who ?

On the Broncos site there is quote from their owner that says Vinny and Dan are heavily involved in the GM decesions.

These articles seem not to give us a inside look on how they make decesions getting players.

[PapaDRoc]

The article seems like someone wanted it out there. Who ?

On the Broncos site there is quote from their owner that says Vinny and Dan are heavily involved in the GM decesions.

These articles seem not to give us a inside look on how they make decesions getting players.

Well it talked about how GW makes the most important decisions on the defense, and Part I of the WP series was all about the problems with Gibbs's personnel decisions, and how him and Danny make those decisions.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

Well it talked about how GW makes the most important decisions on the defense, and Part I of the WP series was all about the problems with Gibbs's personnel decisions, and how him and Danny make those decisions.

Vinny is the GM. He is the one talkng to the teams. Snyder ask to make the deals.

I am not sure what Gibbs does. I guess he gives his ok? It was proven by the article on denver broncos.com

I just hate how we do not get the truth.

[PapaDRoc]

I also found it ironic with how everyone (including myself) accused Springs of being the leak in the Friend article, however in this article, there are quotes from Springs talking about how much respect he has for Williams, and how players will feed off of GW's intensity. Springs also states that the problem with this defense is the lack of talent, most certainly not the coaching.

I just don't know what to believe anymore. :doh:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And guess what: they weren't brought in here for those reasons. Don't assign roles to players which they weren't given in the first place.

Jason

Tell Gregg Williams that. I'm not the one who is so inflexible that I can only run one defense, regardless of the level of talent I have.

Why is that Belichik can run a 3-4 one week, a 4-3 the next, cut Lawyer Milloy out of of spite, play a wide receiver at nickelback, have a stroke-victim at inside linebacker and never lose a beat?

In 2004, Cowher/Dick Lebeau lost their all-world nosetackle. Then they lost his all-world nose-tackle's backup. And he still put together a defense that won 15 games.

Meanwhile, we can't deal with an injury to Pierson Freakin' Priloeau?

[jbooma]

Meanwhile' date=' we can't deal with an injury to Pierson Freakin' Priloeau?[/quote']

Not just that but are team can not play defense untill the Tom Friend article, then all of a sudden they remembered :doh:

the defense has phoned it in all year, that is what is sad