How Do We Fix The "offensive" Lines?

[Killerbo]

Ok fellas, now that the Qb situation looks taken care off right now (and yes Brunell was PART of our problems), I see everyone's focus has been on the lines. Defensively the general consensus is to either draft a DE or LB, and sign a mid-tier FA cornerback and linebacker. I personally think we could sign Terrell Sands DT from Oakland who might be a good rotational player on the defensive line as well and should come at a reasonable price.

However, the main problem in my eyes right now is the offensive line. As most of you guys see on most Sundays, they get little or no push at the point of attack. You see guys like Jansen who appears to get blown up on most plays both run and pass. Then you have Casey Rabach, who in my opinion is one of the weakest centers I have seen in a while (not as bad as C.Raymer though **shudders with disgust**). Samuels is adequate for now and R.Thomas doesn't get owned at the line and seems to handle his assignments pretty well.

So my question is this how the heck do we fix this "offensive line"?

Do we give Dockery another chance even though he seems to be a bit slow in space, but is still young and has a chance to be better?

Do we draft a Tackle and Guard in this draft or sign some from Free Agency if for anything just to provide some competition and maybe have guys earn their spots on this Oline?

Center believe it or not, is a position that could use a major upgrade. Even though a lot were happy with the Rabach signing, I still think we need a permanent solution. So do we give Rabach a couple of more years, draft a center or sign a capable center that could also push Rabach for that starting center spot?

Please lay down you ideas or thoughts at this time.....

[Warhead36]

get new players

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Draft....and dare I say in here...Free Agency?

[kovachs]

Stop trading away our draft picks, draft young linemen and let them develop. Use free agency to fill the holes, but free agency can not be the primary way you build your team.

[cjbrown]

take the cap hit, gut the line and start over and in two to three years we might have a line with quality starters and backups. Problem with this is the D-Line will be too old too in 3 years. Oh well, draft, sign and pray.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I think you have to look for cheap free agents who are young (maybe second or third year) and have spent time with teams that have good lines such as denver but simply coudn't beat out the tough competition. These guys should be cheap, and while they may not be immediate starters, they should be able to come in and present young faces to at least pressure our current line into maybe showing a little effort. This way we can try and keep the few picks we have.

[DallasRocks!!]

how is the QB position taken care of? There are many of you that still insist Tony Romo sits to pee is just lucky. Yet one game of JC playing mediocre ball against the 21st ranked D until the last series of the game and he is the next big thing for the skins. This doesnt make sense.

[No_Pressure]

Assembling a new line? Let Bugel hand pick some mid-round draft picks (which surprise we traded away) and pick up some promising UDFA's

See who works out.

Personally I would look for physical specimen like a 6'4 360 pound guard who has great drive in the running game and maybe needs tweaking in the passing game.

I would get guys who are huge, can pull, and can drive big strong guys off the ball. Teach them how to pass protect all summer and voila. New Hogs.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Assembling a new line? Let Bugel hand pick some mid-round draft picks (which surprise we traded away) and pick up some promising UDFA's

See who works out.

Personally I would look for physical specimen like a 6'4 360 pound guard who has great drive in the running game and maybe needs tweaking in the passing game.

I would get guys who are huge, can pull, and can drive big strong guys off the ball. Teach them how to pass protect all summer and voila. New Hogs.

The problem with that is that the Saunders system is much more outside runs. I think we would be better served with the speedy lineman who can pull and hit their blocks well. Or perhaps a mix. Maybe speedy guards who can pull on running plays with Mamoth like tackles who can seal of the corner and hold down the fort in pass protection.

[Aghar]

When Brunell was in there it was his hidious way of playing the game. Now after one game, the OL sucks? :doh:

Seriously fellas. This line isn't that bad. Look at the sacks they give up. Not many. I know the run blocking isn't good but I have said in other threads; it isn't the players as much as it is them getting used to a new scheme. Gibbs = Man vs man blocking while Al = Zone Blocking. I can't say I was ever a lineman( lucky I was a bit too small for the job ) but I know that this adjustment doesn't come overnight and is not always the OL's fault. They will release a pass rusher thinking that the zone is covered by another when it maybe not. Man blocking you stay with your man most of the time therefore if he gets by you, he beats you, plain and simple. Not so easy to decern in a zone blocking scheme. At least not for this fan.

[Killerbo]

When Brunell was in there it was his hidious way of playing the game. Now after one game, the OL sucks? :doh:

Seriously fellas. This line isn't that bad. Look at the sacks they give up. Not many. I know the run blocking isn't good but I have said in other threads; it isn't the players as much as it is them getting used to a new scheme. Gibbs = Man vs man blocking while Al = Zone Blocking. I can't say I was ever a lineman( lucky I was a bit too small for the job ) but I know that this adjustment doesn't come overnight and is not always the OL's fault. They will release a pass rusher thinking that the zone is covered by another when it maybe not. Man blocking you stay with your man most of the time therefore if he gets by you, he beats you, plain and simple. Not so easy to decern in a zone blocking scheme. At least not for this fan.

No buddy, the Oline play was always suspect, but with this current team, even though Brunell was playing ok as a game manager, we didn't really have the time for that play, might as well see what the Qb you spent 2 draft picks on to get in the first round to see what he can do. Heck if he had played at a Drew Brees leevel I think his job might have been safe. The point is Brunell was part of the problem on offense and you might as well take you lumps with the rookie QB now than wait for next year. Now, I just wish we could at least take care of some of our Oline issues ( being beat on man to man matches on a constant basis).

[planter]

I think the O line may be suffering from playbook overload. Too much change too fast...

Sounds like Joe and Al are going to devote more practice time to basic run blocking (and run defense).

When that's accomplished, the play action becomes credible, and the passing game takes off...

Too often, fully capable, including All Pro, Redskin O linemen run by eventual tacklers. Missed assignments and penalties would seem to indicate hesitation, confusion, or inattention to basic fundamentals.

If Buges changes the O-line nickmame from "Dirtbags" back to "Hogs" .... the O line will have arrived.

And, hopefully, C.P.'s costumes will return.

[BKSkinsFan]

The o-line not performing well could be blamed on the new scheme, as far as the running game goes. Pass protection has been said to be very good, but I still see major flaws in that department, case in point last week Chris Samuels got blown up by a linebacker, that's embarassing.

Our d-line just looks awful, they give the QB all day to throw the ball, and are not doing well eating up blockers and getting off their blocks to make a play. Just watch our D during a run play, it doesn't matter who you have at LB, if they are getting blocked by a lineman constantly, it's going to be a long day. The only starter I see playing well is Griffin.

[Fifty Gut]

resign Dock and keep the starting 5 together for another year

focus on the run game and let Campbell grow from that

we are not replacing our whole offensive line with one of 5 idiotic ways people recommended in here :laugh:

but no dobut, draft future replacements, draft depth, don't sign it

[bubba9497]

:doh:

while the oline isn't playing as well as last year, they are still only 1 of 2 teams in the top ten in fewest sacks allowed, and rushing YPC

sacks allowed #3

Rush YPC #7

[armada58]

You're going to kill me for this but, don't do anything. Keep the unit together. I think the best fix is to keep them together. You look to improve depth in the offseason. Our draft needs to be 100% defense unless there is some stud, once-in-a-lifetime type Center available for us in the first round.

Seriously, we should do nothing. Our line has not been great and I don't want to make excuses for them but there is some credence to the fact that they have had to block for 3 vastly different RB's, 1 right handed QB, and 1 left handed QB all in a brand new offense. The results have been inconsistent at best, but gutting the entire unit would only put this team a few more steps backwards. The starting 5 are not THAT bad.

[bubba9497]

You're going to kill me for this but, don't do anything. Keep the unit together. I think the best fix is to keep them together. You look to improve depth in the offseason. .

Bingo

[Joncevensen]

notice how Jaws did not call out Dockery in his game film dissection. I think we re-sign Dockery.

We keep Thomas, his not been @ 100% this year due to his leg, he'll be at 100% next year.

I personally also think we have to keep Samuels, his a good LT, and we just signed him to a mega contract.

Rabach...if we can draft a quality C, we do. He's just disappointed me the past couple of seasons.

Jansen...Looks to me like all those hits from Michigan and the past nine years have gotten to him. I think the strength and conditioning coach can work with him on that this off season. I think we can still get 2 seasons of quality play from Jansen, maybe 3 if he bounces back from a bad year. I just think its a shame he never made the Pro Bowl in his prime; he definitely deserved it.

So next year, keep all five, start everyone but Rabach. Draft a starting C. Draft a project RT.

[Fifty Gut]

:doh:

while the oline isn't playing as well as last year, they are still only 1 of 2 teams in the top ten in fewest sacks allowed, and rushing YPC

sacks allowed #3

Rush YPC #7

those stats should be a sticky

I don't think we'll ever stop these "sign a whole new line" or "draft a whole new line" threads

[redman]

You're going to kill me for this but, don't do anything. Keep the unit together. I think the best fix is to keep them together. You look to improve depth in the offseason. Our draft needs to be 100% defense unless there is some stud, once-in-a-lifetime type Center available for us in the first round.

Seriously, we should do nothing. Our line has not been great and I don't want to make excuses for them but there is some credence to the fact that they have had to block for 3 vastly different RB's, 1 right handed QB, and 1 left handed QB all in a brand new offense. The results have been inconsistent at best, but gutting the entire unit would only put this team a few more steps backwards. The starting 5 are not THAT bad.

It depends. I've never been a big Samuels fan, and I'm very concerned that Jansen's best years are behind him. If I'm right about Jansen, you can't keep the status quo. Either you move Jansen to a backup role at RT, or you move him to guard, or you release him.

Samuels is one of those guys who is good when he's completely healthy . . . but he's usually not completely healthy. Leg problems in particular slow him down and reduce his mobility to the point of ineffectiveness. As a LT who is often facing premier pass-rushers one-on-one on the QB's blind side, that's a killer. I like the idea of trying Samuels at RT if Jansen is indeed washed up.

Rabach is adequate at Center, but if there's one position on the line at which you don't need dominance as much as competence, it's center so I'm fine with leaving him there, especially given our other woes.

Thomas is the one guy who nobody has any right to complain about. The only concern I have is his age from a longer term perspective.

I'm ambivalent about Dockery. I have no idea about what he'll command by way of contract in the offseason, although an offensive guard who has never been to the Pro Bowl doesn't figure to break the bank. He's not great and he's not terrible. I've never gotten the impression that he's played as physical as his physique would imply that he should. He's just very non-descript. On him I'll defer to Bugel and company.

Anyway, possible configurations of our line next season that I wouldn't be shocked to see would be:

LT- Samuels

LG- Dockery (or new player)

C- Rabach

RG- Thomas

RT- Jansen (or new player)

LT- New player

LG- Jansen

C- Rabach

RG- Thomas

RT- Samuels

LT- New player

LG- Dockery (or new player)

C- Rabach

RG- Thomas

RT- Samuels, Jansen

[armada58]

I can't see Samuels moving to the Right Side. He'd would be gone before he did that. Nor can I see Jansen as a Guard seeing is how he has never played the position. I believe that Samuels and Jansen are having down years for sure. I'm not excusing them. But, I just don't think a change would benefit the team because I don't think our line has played THAT bad to justify a mix up. If thing are the same in 2007, then 2008 will see some changes. I'm willing to be patient with this line.

[cosmopolitianbloodloss]

You're going to kill me for this but, don't do anything. Keep the unit together. I think the best fix is to keep them together. You look to improve depth in the offseason. Our draft needs to be 100% defense unless there is some stud, once-in-a-lifetime type Center available for us in the first round.

Seriously, we should do nothing. Our line has not been great and I don't want to make excuses for them but there is some credence to the fact that they have had to block for 3 vastly different RB's, 1 right handed QB, and 1 left handed QB all in a brand new offense. The results have been inconsistent at best, but gutting the entire unit would only put this team a few more steps backwards. The starting 5 are not THAT bad.

Agreeeed.

[Morneblade]

I dont know what I would do. I DO know that the line play has been sub-par for the last 3 years. They have not been physical, and cannot move the line of scrimage back into the defensive backfield with any regularity. Pass blocking has been pourous during the last 3 seasons as well. The reason we dont have alot of sacks is the fact that Brunell threw the ball away or dumped it off, and running alot of screens. You know, stuff that people here hated. NOT because he had time. Stats aside, watch the film. As for the YPR average, chalk that up to CP playing extremely well, not because he had a hole you could drive a truck through established 4 yards in the defensive backfield. He normally got a "crease" at the line of scrimmage, and made things happen from there.

[TLusby]

I say resign Dockery and keep him for depth. Sign a FA RT to take Jansen's place and move him over to LG starting in place for Dockery. Trade our 1st rounder down to pick up a later 1st rounder and a second rounder. Draft a stud DE in the first round and use the second rounder for the best Center available. Use him as a back-up and eventually take Rabach's place. Get one more stud DT in FA to pair up with Griffen. Move Rocky over to WLB or Marshall and pick up a good solid MLB in FA. The beef in the middle will help improve the LB play. Sign a great CB in FA and demote Roger's to nickel or dime back.

[Peregrine]

This is absolutely absurd, our Oline is playing FINE. As bubba pointed out, our Oline is #3 in the NFL in sacks allowed. We are #7 in yard per carry. How is that a bad Oline? Perhaps people are still thinking about how it looked at times when Brunell was in the game(the man just drops back to far). Look at last game, against the bucs. Watch that beatiful pocket on so many of those plays... Also, considering the Redskins usually get behind early in games, and have to pass more than run to catch up, its a surprise we havent allowed MORE sacks than we have.

There are a LOT of problems with this team. There is no reason to create phantom ones.