My take on why the team is lost

[Thirtyfive2seven]

On sports talk 980 several weeks ago, Clinton Portis was answering questions and when asked "Why don't you run the football more" he gave an answer that should have cleared up the entire argument of "What's wrong with this football team."

Clinton Portis' reply (Paraphrased), "Last year we were a dominant running team with Joe Gibbs' offense. Even the year before when we were 6-10 we had the RESPECT of the league. Sure, we were 6-10 but we were in every game and we were a Physical Unit. Everyone knew when they played us, that they were going to get a fight. This year, we have an offense that changed the blocking schemes and we're no longer physical, we're more of a finese style approach. I think that's the problem with the team right now. We get going on a roll and then they go and change things around. A lot of guys are wondering why things needed to be changed."

What Portis is saying is that the team has NOT bought into Al Saunders offense.

Starting with the offensive line. If you were a guy in the trenches fighting your guts out every play would you rather be exploding off the football and attacking the man in front of you or 'zone blocking'? Ask any linemen and to a man they will all give you the same answer.

Clinton and Al don't get along. Al has even criticised Clinton in public about how he pulls himself out on certain plays to rest.

The players were moaning and growning at Al's 700+ page playbook in the PRE-SEASON and making jokes about it and they probably still are.

Al Saunders offense and Joe Gibbs stepping down as the play caller are the reason why the team is lost right now. Talk about no offensive identity? The players loved Joe Gibbs back in 04. They all bought into his smash mouth style of football. Even though the results were a bad record, they were in every game. In 05, they rode his play calling and Clinton's running to a late season surge that landed them in the playoffs. The offensive line is the SAME. What do you think happened they got OLD overnight? Get The **** outta here. It's the philosphy that changed and they don't like it!

:2cents:

[cmiles3006]

I agree with this offense is not the smash mouth style we would all like to see. But to think last years offense was better is just not fair. Last years games were won by the defense. The offense was struggling to score points. All the talk was if we had been able to score or move the ball we would have been right there for the SuperBOwl. Everyone was calling for change. Lets give this a thing a chance to evolve, it may be slow, but it could be great!

[Fan035]

It's lost because we played the majority of the season with an over-the-hill quarterback, an offensive line that's poor, and a defense that's non-existent. Also we let people leave who were good - you have to retain your best players.

[CGSKINS]

On sports talk 980 several weeks ago, Clinton Portis was answering questions and when asked "Why don't you run the football more" he gave an answer that should have cleared up the entire argument of "What's wrong with this football team."

Clinton Portis' reply (Paraphrased), "Last year we were a dominant running team with Joe Gibbs' offense. Even the year before when we were 6-10 we had the RESPECT of the league. Sure, we were 6-10 but we were in every game and we were a Physical Unit. Everyone knew when they played us, that they were going to get a fight. This year, we have an offense that changed the blocking schemes and we're no longer physical, we're more of a finese style approach. I think that's the problem with the team right now. We get going on a roll and then they go and change things around. A lot of guys are wondering why things needed to be changed."

What Portis is saying is that the team has NOT bought into Al Saunders offense.

Starting with the offensive line. If you were a guy in the trenches fighting your guts out every play would you rather be exploding off the football and attacking the man in front of you or 'zone blocking'? Ask any linemen and to a man they will all give you the same answer.

Clinton and Al don't get along. Al has even criticised Clinton in public about how he pulls himself out on certain plays to rest.

The players were moaning and growning at Al's 700+ page playbook in the PRE-SEASON and making jokes about it and they probably still are.

Al Saunders offense and Joe Gibbs stepping down as the play caller are the reason why the team is lost right now. Talk about no offensive identity? The players loved Joe Gibbs back in 04. They all bought into his smash mouth style of football. Even though the results were a bad record, they were in every game. In 05, they rode his play calling and Clinton's running to a late season surge that landed them in the playoffs. The offensive line is the SAME. What do you think happened they got OLD overnight? Get The **** outta here. It's the philosphy that changed and they don't like it!

:2cents:

I think you nailed it. But why dont he just start calling plays again. Wont that solve the problem.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I just don't agree. Sure the defense was great last year, but it's pretty much the same right now. You can't tell me that 2 players changed the entire defense. I will support the same arguement for the O-line. they didn't just wake up one day and realize that they can't block ANYONE. C'mon! It's something else. The players don't suck overnight. I'm not buying it!

As for the QB arguement, I agree! Campbell looks great

[TheGreek1973]

Let me tell you something. Gibbs made a HUGE blunder from the start by bringing in Brunell. he doens't have the arm to run Gibbs offense. Look back at all our QBs under Gibbs I. Even JoeT when we went to back to back superbowls had a decent arm for the deep throw off the play action pass. Now look at Brunell. Even in his prime he was a west coast offense QB. While in washigton, especially this year he simply can't make these type of throws when needed.

I think Gibbs, instead of evaluating Brunell's performace for what it was, he second guessed his offense, thus here comes Al. Honestly Brunell simple messed up the entire team. I trully believe that.

Let me add one more thing. PR might not have been the QB we though he was but when he was in there you could feel the entire offense being more "capable". At any time in otherwords we could have a big play. I never felt that way with Brunell in there.

[jeronimobrat]

It's lost because we played the majority of the season with an over-the-hill quarterback, an offensive line that's poor, and a defense that's non-existent. Also we let people leave who were good - you have to retain your best players.

:applause: Close thread

[CPortJGibbs89]

I agree with this offense is not the smash mouth style we would all like to see. But to think last years offense was better is just not fair. Last years games were won by the defense. The offense was struggling to score points. All the talk was if we had been able to score or move the ball we would have been right there for the SuperBOwl. Everyone was calling for change. Lets give this a thing a chance to evolve, it may be slow, but it could be great!

I agree. We put up 120 yards of offense in the playoffs, our defense towards the end of the year was absoutely dominant. Every knew we would run 1st and 2nd down then throw a short pass, then punt. Everyone knew what we were doing on offense, and Brunell wore down at the end of the year. We needed a change, we needed an offense that wasnt so predictable.

But to adress what clinton said, I heard him on 980 yesterday and he was saying that we abandon the run to soon. I agree that Portis and Saunders never got along. Once he got hurt in pre-season everything just kind of went downhill. He was pretty much saying with out coming out and saying that the offensive play callilng is stupid and that they have no commitment to the running game. I think there is alot going on behind the scenes that we dont know about. Clinton sounds frustrated and just at a loss for what the problems are on offense. Dont get me started on the defense. There is alot going on behind closed doors that we dont know about. I just have a feeling this team is slowly imploding on the inside. I hope not and I know Gibbs is the one coach that keeps this from happening but alot of guys arent happy and how much longer will they keep there silence.

[pgitta]

Al Saunders offense and Joe Gibbs stepping down as the play caller are the reason why the team is lost right now.

I was just thinking about these two. How in the world could Joe Gibbs think this pair would be a good fit? I can't think of two people with more opposing philosophies on how to play football.

I find it more and more difficult to believe it was Gibbs' idea and not forced on him by a desperate to win at any cost owner.

[jwpanic]

these guys are getting paid alot of money, so even if they don't like, they need to "buy into" saunders offense. if it's too complicated, put in the hours at practice and learn it. it worked everywhere else. stop whining about last season, focus on this season, and earn your d*** paycheck!

[Sinclair]

...and a defense that's non-existent...

Hey man, part of the reason that the D is so bad is because we go 3 and out and sometimes that 3 and out didnt include a run play, so therefore we chew up 50 seconds, punt the ball away and the defense is forced to go back onto the field for 4-8 minutes.

[ibrahim]

Guys, please quit all this talk and realise that the Redskins' problem right now is THE DEFENSE!!! Could the offense be a little better? Yes, but lets focus on the REAL problem with this team.

[budski]

what happened this year?

[zoony]

Good post, I think there's something to it.

.....

[nightbird]

The players don't trust the coaches.

The coaches don't trust the players.

Management is not forthcoming with the fans.

Grilliams thinks he can plug anyone into his "system" and have a great defense. In reality, the players on our defense would not be starting for any other team in the league.

They play with no fire, no passion, no confidence.

Our starting corner, drafted number 9 overall, said "he's a fast wide receiver, there's nothing I can do." Umm, how about try to cover him instead of jogging behind him.

The whole franchise is broken and shell-shocked.

We are one overtime coin toss and one blocked field goal away from being 1-9.

I repeat, we are one overtime coin toss and one blocked field goal away from being 1-9.

We are one of the worst teams in the league, with the highest payroll and highest average age.

Anything else?

[fansince62]

the problem with Portis' argument is tah thye offense *ucked when it counted thre most: in the playoffs. the "physical" bunch couldn't do it when it counted. his ypr were awful. Saunders was brought in cuz everyone in the world knew the offense wasn't cutting it and that JG's concepts/playcalling may have been a step behind the times. how much you wanna bet that Saunders hiring just didn't happen because the good idea factory was working overtime? I'm willing to bet that this subject came up - repeatedly - in the frequent conversations JG has said he had with Dick Vermeil.

btw......4 straight 3 and outs cuz you can't run the ball has the same impact as 4 straight 3 and outs cuz the passing game is all behind the line of scrimmage. The Dallas game demonstarted just hhow far this team is from being a dominating running team.

also...wasn't the blocking scheme changed to accomodate CP who is not a power runner?

[DiscoBob]

Problem with the running game -

#1 Running back has been hurt all year and not nearly affective as previous seasons, although still can get it done.

#2 Running back is an OK pure runner, but much better as a 3rd down back / receiver

#3 Running back is the only guy who could achieve the smash mouthed style we have said we want, but for some reason is not playing

Offensive line is mediocre, and often forced to play at less than 100% because there is no one competant behind them

[CaptChaos86]

Let me add one more thing. PR might not have been the QB we though he was but when he was in there you could feel the entire offense being more "capable". At any time in otherwords we could have a big play. I never felt that way with Brunell in there.

Thats not really fair i mean yeah brunell sucked the past few weeks but he did have big play abilities. Like the jacksonville game i was there for that. And the pass play in OT to win the game and all the big plays they had in that game were awesome. Brunell is capable but i think you have to put more blame on the o-line than brunell. I like brunell and all but campbell def looks better.

[hands11]

I just don't agree. Sure the defense was great last year, but it's pretty much the same right now. You can't tell me that 2 players changed the entire defense. I will support the same arguement for the O-line. they didn't just wake up one day and realize that they can't block ANYONE. C'mon! It's something else. The players don't suck overnight. I'm not buying it!

As for the QB argument, I agree! Campbell looks great

On D, its more then 2 players. It been a while but I did a thread on this a while ago. We lost a ton on D the last 2 yrs.

AP was our D QB, huge loss. LaVar was an impact when healthy and a leader. Clark and Walt were solid players and team players. The Clark and Talyor relationship is well documented. PP went out the first game. Springs didn't play till recently. Killings was a nice role player. Bottom line, we lost a lot of continuity and talent. They all played well together.

On Offense, this was never set up to work as well as it should have. Biggest difference hear from last year was bringing in a new OC. Dumb move by Gibbs. 2nd, we have always had other backs that could do things for us but we don't use them enough. We have tried to make Portis into to many things he isn't and didn't use the players we had. ie. shot yardage TDs. Again, that a Gibbs problem. Gibbs took forever to get the zone blocking in the game plan and didn't use Sellers for short yardage when Portis and the O line couldn't get it done.

We have lots a problems. I hate to say it but they are mostly problems that fall on JG's shoulders. Overall, He hasn't done a very good job this time around.

Now with us getting Arch and Carter while losing Clark and Harris we have set ourselves back again because we have to weed this contracts out.

Starting Campbell is one thing that needed done to start moving in the right directions. Sitting Arch was another. What we have remaining is the following.

1-Get a GM. Fix the front office. Get ride of Saunders and let Gibbs call the plays. To many chiefs.

2-Establish a balanced running game that has more power. Start TJ and use Rock more. Rock is a Redskin soul type player like Sellers is. Give them all more touches. Betts is ok but he doesn't rally the team. The players I want to touch the ball are: Moss, Coley, Sellers, TJ, Rock, Lloyd, Campbell, and Thrash. Those are the core of a Redskins team.

3-If there is a way to trade Portis, do it and fill a hole like at DE. Let Betts go and keep TJ.

4-If there is a way to fix the trades for Arch and Carter, do it. Neither is a starter at the position we have them at. Carter is a 3rd down specialist. If not, either or both need their positions changed to LB. We should have replaced him with Daniels a long time ago. Compound this with another personnel error, we let K Lang go and he has played more then fine for years.

5-Taylor should be moved to SS and replaced with an aging CB at FS. This could be Springs in a few years but we need one now.

So there are fixes but the biggest is getting a GM. Sure we picked up some good talent over the years but we have not gained ground or build cohesion because we lost a ton a good players.

Its hard to admit but Gibbs has never been successful under the new NFL rules for FA. When he won before we had both a GM and we spend more then anyone else. We were basically the Yankees.

[Aghar]

You do NOT run the ball 14 times and throw the ball 34 times against a sorry assed Tampa Bay team with a rookie QB in there! I don't care who he is or is not. You don't do it and expect to win a football game. That's all Al Saunders fault. We paid him 2 mil a year because our offense sucked last year and was only ranked 11th in the league and now we get what for 2 mil a year? A coach that calls out our star RB basically calling him soft? C'mon coach...Let Joe show you last year and how this "soft" running back carried this team to the playoffs in 05' as he was beat up and battered!! :mad:

[Warpath11]

Clinton Portis' reply (Paraphrased), "Last year we were a dominant running team with Joe Gibbs' offense. Even the year before when we were 6-10 we had the RESPECT of the league. Sure, we were 6-10 but we were in every game and we were a Physical Unit. Everyone knew when they played us, that they were going to get a fight. This year, we have an offense that changed the blocking schemes and we're no longer physical, we're more of a finese style approach. I think that's the problem with the team right now. We get going on a roll and then they go and change things around. A lot of guys are wondering why things needed to be changed."

While I understand what he is saying and your post was very good is it me or didn't CP have success in a zone blocking scheme in Denver? He averaged over 1500 yards and over 10 TDs in his tenure there. Having said that I dont think we have the personell (Oline) to run a finesse scheme and that is what I think CP is getting at. The quote is really telling about the kind of person CP is, we all know if we could run the finesse scheme CP would be happier but he realizes that such a scheme is no good for our offense right now and is more then willing to be the power back we need to be successful..

[skinfan61]

I've got to disagree. While I don't like this style of offense, I do see improvement over last year. Especially against Tampa we showed that it has some potential. That said this is the NFC East, jam that ball down their throats. Leave the finesse crap to the Colts.

The real reason that we are doing so bad is our defense. Last I heard not 1 page of Colonel Saunders 700 page playbook is dedicated to defensive schemes.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

I agree with this offense is not the smash mouth style we would all like to see. But to think last years offense was better is just not fair. Last years games were won by the defense. The offense was struggling to score points. All the talk was if we had been able to score or move the ball we would have been right there for the SuperBOwl. Everyone was calling for change. Lets give this a thing a chance to evolve, it may be slow, but it could be great!

Yes the offense was bad last year and the defense won it. But we Brought in a Brandon Lloyd and ARE to complement Moss. Teams can no longer double and triple team him. If we stuck to what we were doing last year, we would be a great team right now.

Reading that first post makes me think that when the end of the season comes its either Portis or Saunders that is outta here.

[Skins n' Bones]

It's mainly the defense, not the offense. Yeah, it's tough when the offense goes 3 and out, but how many long time consuming drives has the D allowed? WAY too many!

If we had anything close to last year's production on defense, we'd be right around .500 if not better.....and the offense would look better too, because the D would actually give them the ball back more often.

With that said, I agree that Saunders tends to try to get "too cute" with the play-calling and he abandons the run to much.....which is just odd considering how RB's have done in his system before. But then again, weren't the Chiefs like 6-10 his and Vermiel's first year there?

[Spartacus87]

these guys are getting paid alot of money, so even if they don't like, they need to "buy into" saunders offense. if it's too complicated, put in the hours at practice and learn it. it worked everywhere else. stop whining about last season, focus on this season, and earn your d*** paycheck!

Exactly. I don't buy this excuse at all from Portis. The offense last year was NOT as good as the rankings said- it was all a mirage based on incredible YAC from Moss and some great running from Portis that ended up costing him his health for the playoffs. There's a reason why Tampa shut us down completely in what might be called an embarrassing playoff win. Al Saunders' offense worked wonders everywhere else it's been, and I see absolutely no reason why our players wouldn't want to buy into the system that created Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson and one of the most dominant offensive lines in recent history.