Instigation and FedEx security.

[Art]

So, I'm in the stands for Dallas, enjoying myself and having a good time. Buzzed nicely, given morning tailgates are the one time in a man's life drinking before noon (hell, before 9 a.m.) is not only acceptable, but, required. I enjoy just sitting in the stands during games. Sometimes even more than being on the sidelines.

Perhaps I go to too few of the games to know whether society and gaming etiquette has changed on me, or, if this is the way it always was. A few years ago I was next to a couple of Rams fans. They cheered nicely and appropriately for their team. They were appropriately quiet and respectful otherwise. When Redskin fans started giving them the business just for wearing Rams uniforms, I was torn. Personally, I don't like opposition fans at games. But, if they show up, I do expect them to behave JUST like this couple did. And when the Redskin fans were in their face, I stopped the Redskin fan from doing this.

At this Cowboy game, I was faced with a different type of fan. A Cowboy fan who was not appropriately quiet and respectful. One who didn't cheer when his team did well, but, was loud and boosting of the Cowboys constantly. Let's Go Cowboys. Defense. Various chants of that sort. None profane. But, the way it was done, and with the constant throaty cheering, it was clear Redskin fans throughout the area were turning on him. A problem was going to develop and, frankly, this guy deserved a beating.

Trying to head this off, I grabbed the 45-pound security guard in our section and told him to keep an eye on that Cowboy fan because something was going to break out. The bottom line is, "Lets Go Cowboys," chants while the fans around are quiet for our offense to work is instigation and insulting to the home fans as it would be if I was singing Hail to the Redskins while the Cowboys had the ball in Texas Stadium.

Unfortunately, the security guard never did anything BUT sit on the steps right behind the guy, effectively allowing him to say anything he wanted while preventing anyone else from approaching him (me specifically) and telling him it was time to be respectful or leave. Fans in two sections became increasingly agitated. Taunts and profanity started going back and forth many rows away.

Yet, security sat there, doing absolutely nothing. I was disappointed. In a stadium where it is "policy" not to stand up unnecessarily -- meaning you cause fans behind you to stand up -- and where security can come to you and ask you to sit down, why is it a Cowboy fan was essentially able to push things right up to the brink before HE left on his own. He knew he had to leave. At least a dozen people were screaming at him that he was toast on the way out of the stadium. The guy behind him started yelling into his ear. It was going to blow up. And, the Cowboy fan left on his own.

My point is, I knew four minutes into the game he was a problem. I informed security. They did nothing. I'd love to see security essentially given the directive to tell opposition fans they are in a hostile environment. Cheer for their team, but, don't draw such attention to yourself you essentially are spitting in everyone's face.

That's my story. Next time, I don't tell security, so he stays down below. Then, I can put an early end to it myself .

[A Walton]

I figure that there were approximately 10 thousand cowboys fans at that game. I use this number roughly b/c i figured that 1 in 10 people I saw had cowboys gear on.

I don't think the problem is security but that the cowboys fans had strength in numbers.

Less opposition fans at the game = less chance of douche bag fan screaming all game long.

Moral to the story - stop selling your tix on ebay to Cowgirls fans.

[Skinsfan1311]

Yet, security sat there, doing absolutely nothing.

Not all security just sits there, Art.

I had a security guy tell me to cover up my "Dallas Sucks" shirt. :doh:

[Tastes Like Chicken]

The Brokeback fans at this year's game seemed to be much better than what I've seen in the past. So I was kind of easy on them as I exited the stadium. Well, not really but I wasn't crossing the line either

Anybody been to a Skins game at Texas Stadium? Are there that many Skins fans there? Maybe next year we oughta do something special in infiltrate their house in big numbers.

[DeMarco Murray 29]

The Brokeback fans at this year's game seemed to be much better than what I've seen in the past. So I was kind of easy on them as I exited the stadium. Well, not really but I wasn't crossing the line either

Anybody been to a Skins game at Texas Stadium? Are there that many Skins fans there? Maybe next year we oughta do something special in infiltrate their house in big numbers.

I have been to games at both stadiums. I have to see it is pretty much equal. In Washington, you have plnety of Dallas fans. Vice Versa. Plenty of Skins fans in Dallas as well.

[jowille]

At this game, most of the cowgirls fans seemed pretty well behaved. I've been to many other skins-cowgirls games at FEDEX and have seen a lot worse behavior. I did see one cow fan each time I went out to the bar, who was becoming increasingly beligerent and hostile, as he was becoming progressively more intoxicated..... he suddenly ripped off his cowgirl jersey and wanted to fight anyone that would take him on..... The FEDEX security folks surrounded him and then a PG policeman came up and took him away.

In my section the girls fans were disappointed at the end of the game but were well behaved and congratulated skins fans on the win.

[spidernat]

Security in our section were telling people they couldn't stand up while the Redskins were on defense. Someone must have complained but we all know how that turned out.

[Raub]

You were more well-behaved than I was Art. I think I had that guy's twin in my section 2 rows in front of me. :doh:

[Capt'n Obvious]

I remember last year during the Giants game at FedEx, security told our some people in our section (including me) to sit down even though other in front of us and next to us were standing. At this years Dallas game a couple of Boys' fans kept saying "look at the scoreboard" the entire damn game.

At the end of the game they were the ones needing to take a look at the scoreboard. My buddy and I grabbed a bunch of napkins and passed them out as tissues for all the Dallas fans that talked the whole game.

The respectable fans I shook hands with and said good game.

[riggins44]

At Tenn game had one of their fans sitting about 4 rows in front of us. He was getting on everyone's nerves. Finally my 15 yr old son told him to

sit down and be quiet.

He looked shocked that a kid called him out. Later in the game others

around told him to cool his jets.

This was first time I can ever recall something like this happening.

[pjfootballer]

The more you guys come in here and talk about your game day experiences, the less I ever want to go to a Skins game again. Ushers telling you what to wear, when to cheer, when to stand up, and all the parking lot woes and such. Sounds like it is a very miserable experience. Not at all like RFK. I went to one game in 1996 (?) in the rain against the Ravens at Fed Ex, and I didn't have any problems. But man, sounds like I really wouldn't want to go to a game.

I also seem to hear everyone saying that it is a coperate atmosphere with corperate fans instead of the true fans, but I have to say that some of it is the FedEx staff making the game experience terrible. I hope all you guys continue to complain to the Redskins front office or whoever handles complaints, because it looks like some things need to be changed. and soon.

[DrBoogerLips]

"At this Cowboy game, I was faced with a different type of fan. A Cowboy fan who was not appropriately quiet and respectful. One who didn't cheer when his team did well, but, was loud and boosting of the Cowboys constantly. Let's Go Cowboys. Defense. Various chants of that sort. None profane. But, the way it was done, and with the constant throaty cheering, it was clear Redskin fans throughout the area were turning on him. A problem was going to develop and, frankly, this guy deserved a beating.

Trying to head this off, I grabbed the 45-pound security guard in our section and told him to keep an eye on that Cowboy fan because something was going to break out. The bottom line is, "Lets Go Cowboys," chants while the fans around are quiet for our offense to work is instigation and insulting to the home fans as it would be if I was singing Hail to the Redskins while the Cowboys had the ball in Texas Stadium."

Art, I kinda have to semi-disagree with you on this one. And to be clear, I am a huge skins fan just like all of you.

I suppose this may be on one of those things you have to see to understand, but cheering your team on (home or away) is part of the experience. We have home field advantage, which means the entire section should have been cheering louder than he was. He has the right to cheer as much and as loud as he wants as long as he keeps it clean. If he was being a blatant jerk, then I understand to an extent.

On another note, I am seriously dissappointed with some skins fans. A buddy of mine, who is a Cowboys fan, went to the game with his wife and two kids. Some ***** hit his 10 year old son with a pretzel. That is absolutely rediculous. I understand it was probably one bad apple, but grow the f up. I truly hate the Cowboys and probably would have laughed (on the inside) if I heard someone hit my buddy with a pretzel while watching the game with the guys. But to make if personal and hit is son is uncalled for. I was embarrassed when he was telling me the story.

[Skinsfan1311]

The more you guys come in here and talk about your game day experiences, the less I ever want to go to a Skins game again. Ushers telling you what to wear, when to cheer, when to stand up, and all the parking lot woes and such. .

Don't let us dissuade you....the security guy was at one of the tunnel entrances and he wasn't rude about it. I just said, "OK...I'll cover it" and that was the end of it. (I didn't cover it, BTW)

I believe that the negative experiences are the exception, not the norm. Most of the 90K+ fans are having a great time. C'mon in and join the madness!!

[zoony]

I don't think that security guard's jobs are to keep people from cheering... only to keep the peace.

As much as I don't like it, the cowboys fans didn't break any laws or policy at FedEx... what did you expect him to do?

[GaryClark4Canton]

The more you guys come in here and talk about your game day experiences, the less I ever want to go to a Skins game again. Ushers telling you what to wear, when to cheer, when to stand up, and all the parking lot woes and such. Sounds like it is a very miserable experience. Not at all like RFK. I went to one game in 1996 (?) in the rain against the Ravens at Fed Ex, and I didn't have any problems. But man, sounds like I really wouldn't want to go to a game.

I also seem to hear everyone saying that it is a coperate atmosphere with corperate fans instead of the true fans, but I have to say that some of it is the FedEx staff making the game experience terrible. I hope all you guys continue to complain to the Redskins front office or whoever handles complaints, because it looks like some things need to be changed. and soon.

Yeah Pj, don't let some of these stories get you down. Honestly, EVERY time I go to a game I have a complete blast, even when we lose. But I've only been to maybe 3 losses. Everytime I go we seem to do very well (I went to the Dallas 35-7 game and the G-men game that got us into the playoffs)

I've been to RFK and that was just a special stadium because it felt so blue collar, RFK just looks like DC lol (and you know what I mean). It had the old stadium armory stop and we virtually no traffic, not like FedEx anyway.

But man I tell, since Gibba has come back he has made FedEx feel like a RFK's younger brother. It's really an awesome experience with 91,000+ screaming for the exact same reason.

I can't describe the feeling I got last Dallas game after we blocked the FG and Novak hit the 47 yarder. I will never forget it man.

GC

[GaryClark4Canton]

Art, I kinda have to semi-disagree with you on this one. And to be clear, I am a huge skins fan just like all of you.

I suppose this may be on one of those things you have to see to understand, but cheering your team on (home or away) is part of the experience. We have home field advantage, which means the entire section should have been cheering louder than he was. He has the right to cheer as much and as loud as he wants as long as he keeps it clean. If he was being a blatant jerk, then I understand to an extent..

I don't think that security guard's jobs are to keep people from cheering... only to keep the peace.

As much as I don't like it, the cowboys fans didn't break any laws or policy at FedEx... what did you expect him to do?

You guys are missing the point. The guy is yelling when everyone is quiet during the redskins' offensive drives. That is the time when all hecklers try to show their @$$es. It is essentially the equivalent of yelling during free throws at a Wiz game. And it gets people kicked out often because it is a time of the game where it is a unwritten rule to sit your @$$ down and be quiet.

Besides, you can't spend the full 3 hours up on your feet cheering. Even at soccer games you have to shut up at sometime to at least rest your vocals.

GC

[DieHardLady]

I suppose this may be on one of those things you have to see to understand, but cheering your team on (home or away) is part of the experience. We have home field advantage, which means the entire section should have been cheering louder than he was. He has the right to cheer as much and as loud as he wants as long as he keeps it clean. If he was being a blatant jerk, then I understand to an extent.

I agree completely. I don't think cheering for your team, no matter if they're playing at home or away, should be considered disrespectful or inappropriate, if you're not being confrontational or offensive towards others. Nowadays, so many people travel JUST to see their teams play...or they may live far from their team and only have an opportunity to see them when they come to town, which may not even be every year, depending on the division. To me, it seems a bit idealistic to expect someone to "censor" their style of cheering, just because they're not for the home team. Again, unless they're being jerks about it towards others.

It's the job and the right of the home team fans to protect our house and give the visiting fans hell, of course....as long as we don't get over the top ourselves. When I went to Texas Stadium in Week 2, I made noise, I cheered loud, I sang Hail to the Redskins whenever I saw fit...loud and proud, but that was in support of my team...not to pick fights with the Dallas fans. Of course, with all the noise I was making, I was prepared for all of the heckling I was going to get from the 'girls fans. But, that's part of the game and it was all in fun. If somebody came and told me that I was supposed to sit quietly in my seat and "behave" myself, I would've laughed in their face. *lol* It was all good natured and friendly trash talk and when the game was over, I took my punishment with grace. And when the game was over this past week, I dished OUT the punishment with grace, too!

My perception may also be swayed by the fact that I DON'T drink at games..or much else, for that matter. I think for a LOT of people, once the alcohol enters the picture, sometimes even sitting quietly wearing the wrong jersey can be taken as asking for a fight. Sad, but true...even outside of Philly.

:2cents:

[Art]

Guys, this is simple.

What this person was doing was ABSOLUTELY provocative. There's a difference between cheering your team, and doing things YOU KNOW are drawing individual attention to yourself to bring about confrontation. In the seconds after a big play for the team you cheer, your cheering is exactly appropriate.

Individual chants of defense, or constant loud noise, at all times, in the opposition stadium is, absolutely bad fan etiquette. If you think it's part of the process to act as you would at home, on the road, then, indeed, society has changed. Your obligation as a fan of the opposition on the road is to respect the house.

You wouldn't walk into a person's house for a dinner party and put your feet up on the coffee table. You know you wouldn't. You KNOW, "Hail to the Redskins," in the quiet of an offensive drive by the Cowboys in Texas Stadium would be YOU tring to provoke the Cowboy fans around you. And you wouldn't do it.

And if you're in charge of security at a stadium, you shouldn't allow it.

Frankly, though, if I owned the team, I'm not sure I'd prevent myself from making it one hell of a hostile place for fans of the opponent to come.

[DieHardLady]

You guys are missing the point. The guy is yelling when everyone is quiet during the redskins' offensive drives. That is the time when all hecklers try to show their @$$es. It is essentially the equivalent of yelling during free throws at a Wiz game. And it gets people kicked out often because it is a time of the game where it is a unwritten rule to sit your @$$ down and be quiet.

I don't think they're missing the point...yes, the guy is yelling during a Skins' offensive drive...because DALLAS is on defense. Just like the Skins' fans will yell when the Skins are on defense. Unless the point is that the guy should be quiet just because the Dallas fans are in the minority? If that's the point, I think it's just a matter of me (and maybe the other two posters) disagreeing.

I haven't been to a lot of Wiz games, but I'm guessing someone yelling inside an arena that size would be a lot more noticeable than someone yelling at FedEx, but I see the similarity. Personally, if someone tried to kick me out of a game, stating an "unwritten" rule, I'd either be going back in or they'd be refunding my money. Either it's a rule or it isn't.

:2cents:

[redskins35to7]

I figure that there were approximately 10 thousand cowboys fans at that game. I use this number roughly b/c i figured that 1 in 10 people I saw had cowboys gear on.

I don't think the problem is security but that the cowboys fans had strength in numbers.

Less opposition fans at the game = less chance of douche bag fan screaming all game long.

Moral to the story - stop selling your tix on ebay to Cowgirls fans.

Please stop selling tix on eBay. It is so stupid, just give your tickets to your friends please! I know in other stadiums around the country this happens but it doesnt have to happen here. FedEx seats 90 thousand fans and at least over 89 thousand should be Redskins fans, no less. I bet most of the people that read this dont sell thier tix on eBay but at least I tried.

[redskins35to7]

Your obligation as a fan of the opposition on the road is to respect the house.

Words of genius. We need to make FedEx more hostile, I am sick of people just letting these Cowboy/Eagles/Giants fans get away with this. If away fans act like idiots and security wont do anything about it then its our duty to take care of it. We need to make away fans scared to come into our house and act like that. There is a good reason away fans dont act like that in Philidelphia and I'd hate to use one of our rival stadiums as a good example but its true.

[GaryClark4Canton]

I don't think they're missing the point...yes, the guy is yelling during a Skins' offensive drive...because DALLAS is on defense. Just like the Skins' fans will yell when the Skins are on defense. Unless the point is that the guy should be quiet just because the Dallas fans are in the minority? If that's the point, I think it's just a matter of me (and maybe the other two posters) disagreeing.

I haven't been to a lot of Wiz games, but I'm guessing someone yelling inside an arena that size would be a lot more noticeable than someone yelling at FedEx, but I see the similarity. Personally, if someone tried to kick me out of a game, stating an "unwritten" rule, I'd either be going back in or they'd be refunding my money. Either it's a rule or it isn't.

:2cents:

I'm not saying the security guards would say it is an unwritten rule, but if you are standing up in front of people cheering during offensive drives, or when everyone else isn't cheering, you're gong to get kicked out period. And not just because you are a Dallas fan or some fan of an opposing team, they kick skins fans out for the same reasons.

It's really not that hard to comprehend. People know when they are supposed to be cheering. After a dallas play on defense, fine cheer. That is acceptable. But standing up and yelling E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES! everytime Mark Brunell yells "Green 44" is going to get you booted everytime.

And trust me, during those offensive drives you might as well be in the Verizon center because it is dead quiet. You almost have to whisper to the person next to you as to not disturb your whole section.

GC

[GaryClark4Canton]

Words of genius. We need to make FedEx more hostile, I am sick of people just letting these Cowboy/Eagles/Giants fans get away with this. If away fans act like idiots and security wont do anything about it then its our duty to take care of it. We need to make away fans scared to come into our house and act like that. There is a good reason away fans dont act like that in Philidelphia and I'd hate to use one of our rival stadiums as a good example but its true.

You know how to make it more hostile for opposing fans??? It's simple, We just need to win more!

When we were leaving last Sunday and yelling "Dallas Sucks" chants all the way down the ramps you should have seen the looks on the Cowgirl faces. They had a look like "why did I even bother coming to this game?"

Cost of Redskins tickets section 423....$79 bucks

the look on Dallas fans after a 22-19 loss....Priceless!

GC

[DieHardLady]

Guys, this is simple.

What this person was doing was ABSOLUTELY provocative. There's a difference between cheering your team, and doing things YOU KNOW are drawing individual attention to yourself to bring about confrontation. In the seconds after a big play for the team you cheer, your cheering is exactly appropriate.

Individual chants of defense, or constant loud noise, at all times, in the opposition stadium is, absolutely bad fan etiquette. If you think it's part of the process to act as you would at home, on the road, then, indeed, society has changed. Your obligation as a fan of the opposition on the road is to respect the house.

You wouldn't walk into a person's house for a dinner party and put your feet up on the coffee table. You know you wouldn't. You KNOW, "Hail to the Redskins," in the quiet of an offensive drive by the Cowboys in Texas Stadium would be YOU tring to provoke the Cowboy fans around you. And you wouldn't do it.

And if you're in charge of security at a stadium, you shouldn't allow it.

Frankly, though, if I owned the team, I'm not sure I'd prevent myself from making it one hell of a hostile place for fans of the opponent to come.

Hmmm, yes, I think it might be a change in society, then. I can't say that I think that behavior is expected, but I don't think it's worthy of reprimand either, given that that person has paid their money like everyone else. If he's not breaking any rules, there really isn't much they can do. If he's standing up and blocking views, yes security should step in because that's inconveniencing others. If he's screaming profanity or something, again...security step in, because it's offensive to others. My point is that, in a stadium of that many people, you simply can't expect security to police those who aren't actively starting trouble. There are WAY too many WAY too drunk people in attendance on any given Sunday for them to try to control...they can't really afford to spend time on people who are just annoying because they're cheering loud for the opposition when others would prefer they be quiet.

I think the dinner party analogy doesn't quite apply, because you're getting into matters of someone's personal property and being disrespectful to someone who has personally invited you into their home. Totally different matter, IMHO. When I'm at a game, I don't focus on the other team's fans. They're not of my concern and I don't usually waste my time and energy paying attention to them, unless somebody starts something with me first. I'm there for the TEAM and to watch the GAME. I DESPISE confrontation and would never do anything for the sole purpose of trying to provoke someone...especially someone who is already on the other side of the fence. But I WILL scream my vocals out, no matter where I am, in SUPPORT of my team. Unless I get all up in your face and start talking directly to some particular person (which I wouldn't do...hell, I don't even know how to fight! *lol*), there's no way you can conclude that my yelling for the team is an obvious challenge to the home fans around me to start trouble.

Oh, and one other thing...as you know, there were a good number of Dallas fans in attendance on Sunday. A chant of DEFENSE from one Dallas fan very well could have caught on by others. I KNOW I heard some trying to start one upstairs late in the game. But I wouldn't view that as an attempt to start something with ME...I'd see it as showing and trying to build support for their team in hostile territory. I didn't LIKE it, and would have heckled the crap out of them had I been sitting nearby, of course. *lol* But, I could relate because I'd probably do the same thing in their situation.

If that's bad fan etiquette, then I'm afraid I'd just have to admit to being an improper fan, by your definition.

:2cents:

[illone]

The security at Sun Devil Stadium last year was not so leniant, but luckily I lost my voice by the 2nd quarter.