TheLongshot Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I posted this in another thread after the Titans game. I've updated it with the Indy information. We all know that Brunell did favor Moss in the Titans game. But, the association is that he ignores other receivers most of the time and he locks in on Moss. So, let's look at that. MIN ARE 4/4 Moss 3/4 Lloyd 0/5 Thrash 1/1 Betts 3/4 Portis 2/2 Sellars 1/1 Cooley 2/6 ----------- Pretty even as far as tries to the WRs. Unfortunately not able to connect with Lloyd. Cooley also seemed to struggle. ----------- DAL ARE 2/4 Moss 2/4 Lloyd 1/2 Betts 6/7 Sellars 2/2 Cooley 1/6 Fauria 1/1 ----------- Betts seems to be the main target here. The connection with Cooley still hasn't happened yet, and the attempts to ARE and Moss are even. ----------- HOU Moss 6/6 ARE 3/3 Lloyd 2/3 Patten 1/1 Portis 2/2 Betts 2/3 Sellars 3/3 Cooley 4/4 ----------- Moss gets most of the receptions in this game. Cooley also gets on track. Course, Brunell sets a record in this game and it is a win. ----------- JAX Moss 4/8 Lloyd 3/4 ARE 3/4 Thrash 0/1 Patten 0/1 Portis 2/3 Betts 1/1 Sellars 1/1 Cooley 5/5 Fauria 1/1 ----------- Brunell tries passes to all 5 of the WRs. Most of the attempts are to Moss, but why not when he had a hell of a game. Cooley also has a very good game. Another win. ----------- NYG Moss 3/3 ARE 1/3 Thrash 1/2 Lloyd 0/1 Portis 0/2 Betts 2/2 Cooley 4/8 ----------- A pretty sad day passing the ball. Cooley is the winner here, but no one is getting a lot of balls. ----------- Ten Moss 5/13 ARE 1/1 Lloyd 1/2 Portis 5/6 Betts 2/2 Cooley 2/4 ----------- We know about this one. Moss got most of his catches in the first half, and Lloyd and ARE got theirs in the second half. ----------- Ind Lloyd 4/5 ARE 5/6 Moss 3/4 Thrash 2/2 Portis 5/7 Betts 4/5 Sellers 2/2 Cooley 3/3 Fauria 1/1 ----------- Hm. For once, Moss isn't the one leading in throws for the WRs. Lots of passes to backs, tho. Maybe because we had problems running the ball ------------ Ok, so how do the total results look? With Tenn Moss 28/42 22% ARE 19/25 13% Lloyd 12/22 12% Thrash 3/5 2% Patten 1/2 1% Betts 20/24 13% Portis 16/22 12% Sellars 6/6 3% Cooley 21/36 19% Fauria 3/3 2% ------------ Without Tenn Moss 23/29 18% ARE 18/24 15% Lloyd 11/20 13% Thrash 3/5 3% Patten 1/2 1% Betts 18/22 14% Portis 11/16 10% Sellars 6/6 4% Cooley 19/32 20% Fauria 3/3 2% Looks uneven when you put the Tenn game in there, but if we treat it as the exception to the rule, things are much more even. I would expect that Cooley and Moss would get the most balls, since they are holdovers from last year. ARE seems to be reliable guy for Brunell, tho not very explosive so far (9.3 yds a game.) Brunell is trying to get the ball to Lloyd, but hasn't had very much success doing that. (Which continued on Sunday, with only two catches.) FYI Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trio Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 its more than who he favors.... its that, until yesterday, we didnt throw the deep in routes and posts that cover 2 can be vulnerable to... and that Brunell hasnt been hitting the second tier receivers... in the Al Saunders offense, like many others, you have many tiers of receivers... i will give you an example... picture a three receiver set, betts, cooley.... on any given 5 step pass play you could have...(the routes and who runs them can vary, of course) betts and cooley in short "dump off" routes on either side of the field... Moss running deep (a lot of times) and LLoyd and ARE in intermediate routes... beyond this, and one of the genius parts of the saunders offense is the layering of the routes... if betts is in the flat to the left, then ARE is running a 15-20 yard out or comeback...if the linebacker or safety comes up to cover the short route, the intermediate route should have single coverage behind them...or vice versa... the progression should obviously be long, intermediate, to short... unfortunately what you will see is that brunell often skips the middle step...part of this, assuredly, is a protection issue... what teams have been doing then, is using cover 2 to eliminate the deep threat, and then just waiting for the underneath route to be complete, and making the tackle (the Colts game is the best example of this...remember like 9 short passes in a row? they just gave the 4 yard route and made the tackle...) yesterday that was different though, brunell looked for the intermediate routes a lot more...i think this is because of two things.... 1) the coaches probably worked on this in the bye week...brunell is a smart qb, he wants to do well... 2) there werent as many deep routes without our deep threat (moss)... as much as we need the deep pass to help open up the run, we need the 15- 20 yard in or skinny post more...this is the prime area where linebackers in coverage sit...they are up near the line to stop Portis...back them off by throwing in the middle...also the cover 2 safeties will cheat up..and then you try over the top... of course the other problem is brunell really has lost some arm strength...the deepest ball he threw yesterday was the play to lloyd that was negated by the hold...and that ball was WOEFULLY underthrown.... we saw the best deep ball of the season yesterday...and it was thrown by ARE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertfox59 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Just another in a long line of great posts nuking the Brunell bashers crazy theories. Just be prepared to listen to the "butt monkies". You hit them with facts, you see. That never sits well with the knee-jerk emotional reaction crowd. Great post by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Just another in a long line of great posts nuking the Brunell bashers crazy theories. Just be prepared to listen to the "butt monkies". You hit them with facts, you see. That never sits well with the knee-jerk emotional reaction crowd. ain't it the truth :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertfox59 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 ain't it the truth :laugh: It sure is. Bubba, by the way folks, is one of the people who have been hitting the bullseye of the "Truth dartboard" when it comes to Brunell. Yet those who's arguments don't have a "Ghost" of a chance, keep saying he isn't even hitting the board. If only you could provide photo evidence to help slam the Brunell bashers like you've been doing to the cryboys fans lately.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Great post. The protection Brunell got from the Oline on Sunday was great. We seemed to go with a lot more protection than usual, and it worked well. Dallas seemed to bite on every play action we did, which is testament to the good play calling we had, even without really establishing a running game. Dallas respects Portis a lot, and the week 2 game would've been a lot different had he been back there. About the arm strength of Brunell being weak... I don't think it's that. I think the problem is he takes too long to release it once he makes the read. It's almost like he simply can't believe that it's there, and second guesses himself. As soon as he does that, the timing is off, and the ball gets underthrown. I don't think it has anything to do with the strength of his arm. He's shown time and time again that he has plenty of strength left and he did on Sunday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotfire Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Here's the way I see it: You've got fans whose heart says it's Brunell's fault. You've got fans whose brain says it's not. Football depends heavily on emotion and heart in any individual game, but if you're looking for consistency over a long period of time, look to the brain. The heart changes way too easily. Heart fans are usually fairweather, whereas brain fans stay the course. Heart coaches throw a quarterback away on a whim (Spurrier), whereas brain coaches keep the guy in (Gibbs). Clint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooley4President Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Great post man, I must admit my outlook changed after reading it. I was basing my assumption that he favored Moss on the previous games I had been to, the Jacksonville game (where he threw to Moss very successfully), and the Tennessee game where you showed he uncharacteristically favored him. Thanks for the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible_Red40 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Sellers 6 for 6, get him more involved in the redzone!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldysknzfn1 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Good post...liked the info...I'm surprised by the %'s and just how even it actually is..I'm not a great numbers person....I HOPE that Moss gets the most b/c he's tends to get open more(TN game the exception so I've learned today)..I do wish we could get ARE and Cooley a bit more involved for the rest of the way and Lloyd for that matter. I'm no coach nor am I a player(no females allowed.. )but my philosophy...find the open man..throw to him...if its moss 95% of the time..o well..so be it...I just can't imagine this being the case each and every game however...anyhoo...Thanks for the info...I've learned something new today... Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truballer Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Very Good breakdown and we must heavily factor in the protection piece! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Break down who Brunnel throws to on 3rd downs... and then you'll see what the problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truballer Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Very Good breakdown Trio and we must heavily factor in the protection piece! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterwagen Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Very eeeeeenteristing. What do you want to bet we see some typical anti-Brunell posts along the lines of "b-b-b-but stats lie!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Made Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 So... where are the stats where he locks onto Moss then takes a sack, throws the ball away, or hits a check down receiver? Stats :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertfox59 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Here's the way I see it: You've got fans whose heart says it's Brunell's fault. You've got fans whose brain says it's not. Football depends heavily on emotion and heart in any individual game, but if you're looking for consistency over a long period of time, look to the brain. The heart changes way too easily. Heart fans are usually fairweather, whereas brain fans stay the course. Heart coaches throw a quarterback away on a whim (Spurrier), whereas brain coaches keep the guy in (Gibbs).Clint Great post....:applause::applause: The game is very much like you say it is. The best players play with controlled emotion. They release that emotion on every play. Their brain controls their heart. otherwise you commit stupid penalties. ST "spitting" Moss retaliating....ect. I think it's part of being mature. So... where are the stats where he locks onto Moss then takes a sack, throws the ball away, or hits a check down receiver? Stats :laugh: If your point is that stats lie, I agree with you. Even while I disagree with your assessment of Brunell's play. In this particular thread the original poster is successful is using stats to refute a particular lame argument that Brunell is "locked in" on Moss. This is one instance where stats don't lie. or lie to a very small degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnFoRcEr_uPu Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 You have to understand also, that almost all of the plays to guys like Portis, Sellers, Betts and ARE are designed plays...such as screens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofizz Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 So... where are the stats where he locks onto Moss then takes a sack, throws the ball away, or hits a check down receiver? Stats :laugh: Here they come.. :munchout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSteve Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Considering this just shows completed passes to Moss and others and not who he is locking onto this doesn't prove much. Is it any coincidence that yesterday we threw a few times to places we normally don't with Moss out and Brunell unable to lock onto him? Nevermind eyewitness accounts of Brunell ignoring wide open recievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Just another in a long line of great posts nuking the Brunell bashers crazy theories. Just be prepared to listen to the "butt monkies". You hit them with facts, you see. That never sits well with the knee-jerk emotional reaction crowd.Great post by the way. Really? Seems to be the same with the Pro-Brunell crowd. You can bring up stats and eyewitness accounts from fans who see what goes on at the games and it gets laughed off as nothing. Even when a poster makes very valid points such as The Consigliere did in this post: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3143892#post3143892, I saw not one peep from you, socrates or bubba to refute it. Why?? Because you know it's right and that you can't. BTW, "buttmonkies" ? Haven't heard that one since the 5th grade. But I guess that's what you resort to when you have no substance to back your argument up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertfox59 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Here they come.. :munchout: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastes Like Chicken Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I think maybe MB just doesn't like his other receivers. Dallas game: 2 catches by Lloyd 0 catches by Randle El Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertfox59 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Really? Seems to be the same with the Pro-Brunell crowd. You can bring up stats and eyewitness accounts from fans who see what goes on at the games and it gets laughed off as nothing. maybe you didn't read my post, but I agreed with the whole notion that Stats lie. They can be shaped and molded to any thing you want them to. I just think in this case the stats are used to tell more of the truth and refute the idea that "Brunell is locked in on Moss". If you can provide similar stats that suggest that he is locked in on Moss you might have a point....since you can't, you don't. Even when a poster makes very valid points such as The Consigliere did in this post: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3143892#post3143892, I saw not one peep from you, socrates or bubba to refute it. I didn't read this guys post. I don't know what he said. Maybe he did make valid points....That's not the people I am attacking. It's the wildly out-of -bounds people who are belittling our QB and unjustly calling for his benching and posting sigs that are anti-redskins and shameful. Those are the people who you don't want to go to war with. They forget what Football is all about Faith and Loyality. They start threads that call for this team to Walkout on the Dallas game. They boo their team even when they are still in the game. No one said that Brunell is perfect. But he in no way deserves the Bashing he's been getting by certain "Fans". The stats and play -by-play analysis of his performance this season suggest that he's been pretty good. Why?? Because you know it's right and that you can't. I have refuted the Brunell Bashing on many different instances....If you choose not to read them what can I do?....But to pull one post of the majority of many Brunell Bashing posts, (if that's what it is) and say because I haven't responded to it all my other defenses of Brunell are invalid is retarded. Maybe I'm just sick of beating my head against the wall. :gus: BTW, "buttmonkies" ? Haven't heard that one since the 5th grade. But I guess that's what you resort to when you have no substance to back your argument up with. That's a term from the Laura Ingram show. It describes the type of people who when faced with facts start saying ....."yeah butt, yeah butt....!" But I guess that's what you resort to when you have no substance to back your argument up with. ....um yeah....You can lead a donkey to water (or in this case koolaid) but you can't make um drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 of course the other problem is brunell really has lost some arm strength...the deepest ball he threw yesterday was the play to lloyd that was negated by the hold...and that ball was WOEFULLY underthrown.... we saw the best deep ball of the season yesterday...and it was thrown by ARE Great post...and I think you are pretty much right on...unfortunately this is true as well. ARE can get the ball down field a hell of a lot better even then Brunell. I think the lack of the intermediate routes is definately on the offensive line, with some stress on Brunell as well. I think the worst thing is is that if all this worked and the deep passing game really opened up, I'm not sure Brunell can get the ball downfield well enough...instead I can see the receivers having to give up their 2-3 step advantage to slow down, come back, and get the ball. I think our best chance is if Brunell would FINALLY throw the intermediate routes ACROSS THE MIDDLE then the deep ball would open up, but with Brunell his best chance is to throw the deep ball early like against JAX in overtime and let Moss or Lloyd make a play on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzpackage Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 ........with Moss out and Brunell unable to lock onto him.Nevermind eyewitness accounts of Brunell ignoring wide open recievers Thank you. I lol'd. *edit* I believe that Brunell has been touted as a super smart guy who doesn't make mistakes most notably by Gibbs himself. I think this crippled him being overly protective of the ball in the deep middle, not wanting to make the mistake. but with his job/career on the line.............different mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.