When the Quarterback is Benched the Season is Over

[DjTj]

Maybe our season is already over, or maybe we could still go on an incredible run to the playoffs, but if and when Brunell is benched, that will certainly spell the end of our hopes this season.

That has been the fate of every single team that has benched its quarterback in the past 3 years.

This season, the first quarterback to be benched was Kerry Collins, when the Titans were 0-3. Vince Young so far has won only one game (but we won't go into details). The next week, both Daunte Culpepper and Kurt Warner were benched while their teams were 1-3. Matt Leinart and Joey Harrington have both gone 0-3 since they were promoted to the starting role. Drew Bledsoe was benched on Monday night and Tony Romo sits to pee failed to bring the Cowboys back. They are 3-3 and we will see in the next few weeks how Romo sits to pee fares.

Now Brunell is actually playing much better than all those QB's that were benched. I can bring up passer rating and all that, but that's for another thread. The most important aspect of Brunell's performance is that he isn't turning the ball over. The coach of every single one of those other teams, from Jeff Fisher to Bill Parcells, benched their quarterback because of too many turnovers. Too many interceptions, too many fumbles, or an untimely interception in the red zone. That is a very typical coaching move - bench the QB when he is turning the ball over. Brunell simply isn't doing that, so our situation is different from those other teams. Brunell isn't making too many mistakes - he's not taking enough risks...

If you look to last season, just about every quarterback was benched for the same reason. Anthony Wright, Aaron Brooks, and Tim Rattay were all benched when they were turning the ball over too much. By the way, it took until Week 9 before anyone was benched last year, and Ravens, Saints, and 49ers all had at least 7 losses before they ditched their QB's. Kyle Boller was the only replacement to do well, going 4-3 to end the season.

There is one exception though, and that's the very Brunell-like Trent Dilfer. Dilfer managed the game and wasn't really turning the ball over that much (although more than Brunell). Browns fans wanted the Charlie Frye era to start, but Romeo Crennel waited until Week 12, when the Browns had lost their 7th game, to make the move. The Browns were 4-7, and Charlie Frye went 2-3 to finish the year.

If we go back to 2004, the first year of Joe Gibbs' return, we see some more similar situations when veteran QB's might not have been as bad as the 2006 Kerry Collins or Daunte Culpepper, but the coaches decided to go with the young guys. Brad Johnson got the quick hook in Week 5 when the Buccaneers started out 0-4. Brian Griese finished the season 5-11. Tom Coughlin put in Eli Manning in Week 10 when the Giants were 5-4, but the Giants would only win one more game that season.

So other coaches have benched quarterbacks like Mark Brunell before, but they generally wait until the playoffs are truly out of reach. That might be because when you bench the QB, it means the season is done. The guy off the bench almost never takes the team on a winning streak. It's true that other young QB's have come off the bench and excelled, like Ben Roethlisberger or Tom Brady, but those situations have almost always occurred when the starting QB went down due to injury. When a quarterback is benched because of performance, it seems his replacement does poorly.

Why might that be? I think it's because when a QB is playing poorly enough to be benched, it usually isn't just the QB's fault. It means the offensive line has problems, the timing of the offense is wrong, or maybe the defense is putting the offense in bad situations. When a QB is injured, however, the rest of the team may be perfectly fine, and the offense will continue to click with the new guy.

Where does that leave us? I think we should hope that Brunell's statistical overachievement is a sign that our offense is fundamentally sound and should get better. We should hope that Brunell can lead the Redskins to a few more wins and keep us in the playoff race. We should hope that Campbell only gets into the game because Brunell is playing well but gets hurt. We should hope that Gibbs doesn't have to bench our QB, because if and when he does, our season will be over.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

you're right brunell is great

[santana_4_prez]

Didn't Patrick Ramsey get benched last year...and we made the playoffs???? Am I right?????

[CPortJGibbs89]

you're right brunell is great

HAHA.

[EersSkins05]

Post

Sound, reasonable argument. I disagree completely, and would argue that if Jason Campbell can't complete the same screen passes and dumpoffs that are leading to statistical success for MB, then our entire future is screwed, but it's nice to see a well-thought-out argument around here from time to time.

Edited to comply with forum rules. ~ihs

[praise_gibbs]

Well ****ing said, TJ!

[praise_gibbs]

Didn't Patrick Ramsey get benched last year...and we made the playoffs???? Am I right?????

Technically, he was taken out because of injury. After he was hit with a flying forearm and was taken out for a few plays. Gibbs decided to stick with Brunell since.

[Skin Patrol]

Gibbs decided to stick with Brunell since.

Sometimes we call that benching a player.

But I agree, Mark Brunell is awesome.

[praise_gibbs]

Sometimes we call that benching a player.

But I agree, Mark Brunell is awesome.

It is called benching a player but, it was because of injury initially.

When Tommy Maddox was healthy, they stuck with Big Ben?

When Drew Bledsoe was healthy, they stuck with Tom Brady?

[TheLongshot]

I think this should be narrowed down to when you bench a veteran guy for a young guy. When you do that, you admit that your vet doesn't have what it takes to get you to the promised land and you are working on developing the young guy.

Course, it is possible that you can still be successful, but that isn't likely with a young guy.

Jason

[Skin Patrol]

When Drew Bledsoe was healthy, they stuck with Tom Brady?

Here's an old article from November of 2002: http://www.tennessean.com/sports/titans/archives/02/11/24760507.shtml?Element_ID=24760507

Patriots Coach Bill Belichick benched Bledsoe last season in favor of Tom Brady, an unheralded backup.

EDIT: Let me postscript by saying I understand the point you were making, and I'm feeling kind of sheepish for taking this thing this far. I will relinquish the point that the circumstances of Ramsey's "benching" were different than those for Brunell. I also think the distinction is irrelevant, but that's just my :2cents:

[Redskins Diehard]

I disagree with the title of the thread. The "season" is not "over". A realistic shot at the playoffs may be over, but not the season. Right now I would much rather have Leinart vs. Warner, or Young vs. Collins. Not necessarily because they give you the better chance to win(although I think they give at least as good a chance to win as does Jason for us IMO), but because next year they will not be a "rookie" quarterback. I have this sinking feeling that we are going to have a subpar year this year, followed up by a learning year next year for Jason Campbell. Why can't our subpar year be a learning year?

[TheLongshot]

Why can't our subpar year be a learning year?

It probably will be. It already is when it comes to a new offense.

On the bright side, because the defense is playing like crap, at least we won't whine about "wasting" anything, since everyone is playing like crap.

Jason

[tenken627]

It probably will be. It already is when it comes to a new offense.

On the bright side, because the defense is playing like crap, at least we won't whine about "wasting" anything, since everyone is playing like crap.

Jason

Yeah, everyone knows the real reason our season turned out so crappy is because of the defense. But since we can't do anything about the defense right now in mid season, give Campbell a chance to be "crappy" and learn to play while the defense is still "crappy".

Hopefully we can start fixing our defensive problems during the offseason, so that next year, we can have a better defense AND have a more experienced Campbell.

I would rather have a fixed up defense and an experienced Campbell at the same time than a fixed up defense and a Campbell who has never stepped on the field before.

[RF4L]

Maybe our season is already over, or maybe we could still go on an incredible run to the playoffs, but if and when Brunell is benched, that will certainly spell the end of our hopes this season.

That has been the fate of every single team that has benched its quarterback in the past 3 years.

This season, the first quarterback to be benched was Kerry Collins, when the Titans were 0-3. Vince Young so far has won only one game (but we won't go into details). The next week, both Daunte Culpepper and Kurt Warner were benched while their teams were 1-3. Matt Leinart and Joey Harrington have both gone 0-3 since they were promoted to the starting role. Drew Bledsoe was benched on Monday night and Tony Romo sits to pee failed to bring the Cowboys back. They are 3-3 and we will see in the next few weeks how Romo sits to pee fares.

Now Brunell is actually playing much better than all those QB's that were benched. I can bring up passer rating and all that, but that's for another thread. The most important aspect of Brunell's performance is that he isn't turning the ball over. The coach of every single one of those other teams, from Jeff Fisher to Bill Parcells, benched their quarterback because of too many turnovers. Too many interceptions, too many fumbles, or an untimely interception in the red zone. That is a very typical coaching move - bench the QB when he is turning the ball over. Brunell simply isn't doing that, so our situation is different from those other teams. Brunell isn't making too many mistakes - he's not taking enough risks...

If you look to last season, just about every quarterback was benched for the same reason. Anthony Wright, Aaron Brooks, and Tim Rattay were all benched when they were turning the ball over too much. By the way, it took until Week 9 before anyone was benched last year, and Ravens, Saints, and 49ers all had at least 7 losses before they ditched their QB's. Kyle Boller was the only replacement to do well, going 4-3 to end the season.

There is one exception though, and that's the very Brunell-like Trent Dilfer. Dilfer managed the game and wasn't really turning the ball over that much (although more than Brunell). Browns fans wanted the Charlie Frye era to start, but Romeo Crennel waited until Week 12, when the Browns had lost their 7th game, to make the move. The Browns were 4-7, and Charlie Frye went 2-3 to finish the year.

If we go back to 2004, the first year of Joe Gibbs' return, we see some more similar situations when veteran QB's might not have been as bad as the 2006 Kerry Collins or Daunte Culpepper, but the coaches decided to go with the young guys. Brad Johnson got the quick hook in Week 5 when the Buccaneers started out 0-4. Brian Griese finished the season 5-11. Tom Coughlin put in Eli Manning in Week 10 when the Giants were 5-4, but the Giants would only win one more game that season.

So other coaches have benched quarterbacks like Mark Brunell before, but they generally wait until the playoffs are truly out of reach. That might be because when you bench the QB, it means the season is done. The guy off the bench almost never takes the team on a winning streak. It's true that other young QB's have come off the bench and excelled, like Ben Roethlisberger or Tom Brady, but those situations have almost always occurred when the starting QB went down due to injury. When a quarterback is benched because of performance, it seems his replacement does poorly.

Why might that be? I think it's because when a QB is playing poorly enough to be benched, it usually isn't just the QB's fault. It means the offensive line has problems, the timing of the offense is wrong, or maybe the defense is putting the offense in bad situations. When a QB is injured, however, the rest of the team may be perfectly fine, and the offense will continue to click with the new guy.

Where does that leave us? I think we should hope that Brunell's statistical overachievement is a sign that our offense is fundamentally sound and should get better. We should hope that Brunell can lead the Redskins to a few more wins and keep us in the playoff race. We should hope that Campbell only gets into the game because Brunell is playing well but gets hurt. We should hope that Gibbs doesn't have to bench our QB, because if and when he does, our season will be over.

When your defense is playing like ours, do TO's really matter? Whether the opposition gets the ball on their 1 or our 45 they score at will in either case. :mad:

If you don't think this season is over from a playoff standpoint, I congratulate your optimism. I just can't see this group going 8-1 or even 7-2 the rest of the way.

[TheLongshot]

Yeah, everyone knows the real reason our season turned out so crappy is because of the defense. But since we can't do anything about the defense right now in mid season, give Campbell a chance to be "crappy" and learn to play while the defense is still "crappy".

Plenty of time for that, really. We still have 9 games left in the season.

Anyways, I posted my speculation as to why Brunell will probably get the start for the next couple. Course, all I'm getting back is snarky comments and no read discussion of the point.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177472

Jason

[TriangleSkinsFan]

We should hope that Campbell only gets into the game because Brunell is playing well but gets hurt.

Are you kidding me? Brunell goes into and starts every game hurt, with a spring brace on his right knee, a compression brace on his left(throwing) elbow, his ribs are bruised, and his toenail was ripped off 2 games ago. MB is already hurt. He doesn't play as well when he has any injury at all and the guy is beat up.

Also, I think that it is telling that your discussion has MB being compared to and being grouped in with...Charlie Frye, Kyle Boller, Anthony Wright, Aaron Brooks, Tim Rattay, and Trent Dilfer. The fact that this discussion even breaks down to this is disheartening. What everyone wants is to be able to discuss the QB for thier team along with names like...Brees, Hasselback, Rivers, Delhomme, etc...QBs that seem to be getting the job done, not neccesarily along with superstars like P. Manning, McNabb, or Brady, but something other than the toso out guys would be nice.

[DjTj]

I think this should be narrowed down to when you bench a veteran guy for a young guy.

I disagree with the title of the thread. The "season" is not "over". A realistic shot at the playoffs may be over, but not the season.

I did focus on situations where a veteran was benched for a young QB, but interestingly enough, that's basically what happenned in every single QB benching over the past 3 years. Also, when I said the season would be "over" I meant that our playoff chances would be over, but the thread title might be a little too long if it said: "When a Veteran Quarterback is Benched for a Young Quarterback a Teams' Playoff Hopes are Over."

Also, I think that it is telling that your discussion has MB being compared to and being grouped in with...Charlie Frye, Kyle Boller, Anthony Wright, Aaron Brooks, Tim Rattay, and Trent Dilfer. The fact that this discussion even breaks down to this is disheartening. What everyone wants is to be able to discuss the QB for thier team along with names like...Brees, Hasselback, Rivers, Delhomme, etc...QBs that seem to be getting the job done, not neccesarily along with superstars like P. Manning, McNabb, or Brady, but something other than the toso out guys would be nice.

Nobody is saying our QB situation is great. We are pretty much in the exact same situation as the Browns with Dilfer last year or the Giants with Kurt Warner two years ago. Peyton Manning is not stepping on to the field anytime soon. Maybe, if we're really lucky, it will turn out more like Brad Johnson winning the Super Bowl or Trent Dilfer winning the Super Bowl or even Mark Brunell leading the Redskins to the playoffs last year. If not, like I say, this season is done.

[nneece]

Wake up and smell the coffee. Our season is over with Brunell under center, along with our other issues.

[Monte51Coleman]

Technically, he was taken out because of injury. After he was hit with a flying forearm and was taken out for a few plays. Gibbs decided to stick with Brunell since.

No matter what side you're on: That was probably the most significant flying forearm ever. One that PR will never forget, I'm sure.

[desioreo87]

When your defense is playing like ours, do TO's really matter? Whether the opposition gets the ball on their 1 or our 45 they score at will in either case. :mad:

Dallas proved that when we gave them teh bal on their one after a bad Brunell pass leading to a INT. Then they drove down the damn field and got a TD how ridiculous is that.

O yea and Ramsey was frickin ready by the second half to go back into the game. Ramsey was playing well that game too but Gibbs got his lucky wish and was able to bench him for the year. Pissed me off so much.

LOLOLOLOLOL. My psych teacher was talking about intelligence and she used the term "SUPER SMART" I laughed too hard that everyone started looking at me. Lol...my day has just recieved and upgrade.

[AKM311]

Ok, I love your post DJ, but the one thing your missing is this:

When you bench a starter for a YOUNG QB, you are BUILDING for the future. Hear in Redskins land, there is no such thing as a future, only the present day. That is why we will never win the SB until we think about the FUTURE. Thats is why Warner was benched for Eli. That is why Collins was benched for Young. That is why Warner was benched for Lienart! Because its more important to have a future of potential playoff seasons and a SB contending seasons with stability at positions, than banking on each season to be the one by adding veterans who may or may not fit well into the system.

We live and die by the present, and too bad we have been dying more than living. Last year we had young guys like Clark, Lemar (although his age signifies old), Taylor, Rogers, Portis, Moss, etc to learn our system and develop in it. With Brunell, he will not win us a SB ever. So why not prepare for the future instead of PRAYING that somehow we win a SB this year?

[AKM311]

Oh yea and not to mention Brunell was bench for Leftwhich in Jax. Thats why Jax will consistently be good and may only need to add a piece hear or there to possibly get over the hump.

Stability does not come with old players, only young players. And the QB position is the biggest position to get stability at! We have not had any in DC for 15 years now!

[SkinsFTW]

Brunell has already arguably been the weak point on our last 3 teams. Only this seasons defense is giving him a run for its money.

Get rid of the guy already. He can complete 22 consecutive -7 to 5 yard passes. Give him a cookie and send him on his way. We aren't going to win titles with his performance. Our defense would have to be at the level of the 2004 defense consistently and Brunell would have to be totally uninjured for an entire season which both aren't going to happen. 2005 was the closest he will ever get and you saw how bad his last 3-4 performances were to end our season.

If our staff had great forsight maybe they would have went after Drew Brees to compete with Ramsey instead of Brunell since the Chargers didn't like him at the time and drafted Rivers the same year. But they didn't and went for the 34 year old. We could have had Brees for nothing after his 03 season.

[Phixius]

It is called benching a player but, it was because of injury initially.

When Tommy Maddox was healthy, they stuck with Big Ben?

When Drew Bledsoe was healthy, they stuck with Tom Brady?

They stuck with them because they were winning.