KC Joyner Chimes in on the Sean Taylor Roy Williams Debate

[bubba9497]

Sorry dude...

I don't live in your fantasy world where Sean Taylor is superman.

No you live in a fantasy world where you think Roy Williams is good

[allskinz]

Taylor is better at coverage and Williams is better at run support. They play different positions as well, so that makes an apples/apples comparison a bit harder.

I think Santana Moss can vouch for how good Williams is at pass coverage ???????????????

[ArmchairRedskin]

Sorry dude...

I don't live in your fantasy world where Sean Taylor is superman.

Has not shown me that.

It takes more than running back a couple of fumbles to be considered great.

Oh, and he made the pro bowl in 04'.

Pro Bowls mean nothing. The name Mike Vick mean anything to you? Roy got in on name recognition. Every time I checked in with Cowboys fans, they were screaming bloody murder that Roy sucked at FS.

Sean doesn't have to be superman to be better than Roy. He just has to be Sean.

[Dirk Diggler]

If we're going to play the Pro Bowl card then Lito Sheppard is better than Terrence Newman.

[The Batman]

Hey KC, why don't you go see if you can wave some smelling salt under Mike Anderson's nose and wake him up long enough to ask him what he thinks about Sean Taylor's run support?:laugh:

:logo:

[TEK2000]

Does anyone promoting Sean Taylor and downing Roy Williams actually have ANY substance to bring up in this discussion?

I mean... everyone on every thread pertaining to Roy Williams or Sean Taylor just throws out some sort of opinion without actually providing any kind of evidence or statistics or anything to support it.

[Dirk McGirk]

how is ST not as good in run support?? hes in on every tackle!

[TEK2000]

how is ST not as good in run support?? hes in on every tackle!

If that's true...at what point in the game does he actually COVER recievers then?

[Skins4481]

If that's true...at what point in the game does he actually COVER recievers then?

This might be a suprise to you but Sean Taylor is ALL OVER THE FIELD. Unlike Roy Williams, he excels against BOTH the RUN and the PASS.

BTW, I think that since both players HAVE played FS(and one still does) they can be compared. Obviously, Roy Williams couldnt cut it as a FS and therefore Dallas had to move his ass to SS. Taylor can start playing SS tomorrow and do it better than Roy Williams.

[TEK2000]

This might be a suprise to you but Sean Taylor is ALL OVER THE FIELD. Unlike Roy Williams, he excels against BOTH the RUN and the PASS.

BTW, I think that since both players HAVE played FS(and one still does) they can be compared. Obviously, Roy Williams couldnt cut it as a FS and therefore Dallas had to move his ass to SS. Taylor can start playing SS tomorrow and do it better than Roy Williams.

Again.. you're spewing an opinion without any supporting evidence.

[Skins4481]

Again.. you're spewing an opinion without any supporting evidence.

The evidence is in the videotape footage. Ask fans of other teams(not Cowboys or Redskins) and at least 9 out of 10 will say they'd pick Sean Taylor over Roy Williams. The one guy who would Roy Williams is a Cowboys fan in disguise!

[TEK2000]

The evidence is in the videotape footage. Ask fans of other teams(not Cowboys or Redskins) and at least 9 out of 10 will say they'd pick Sean Taylor over Roy Williams. The one guy who would Roy Williams is a Cowboys fan in disguise!

Are you referring to the highlight videos? I thought we had already established the fact that players cannot be graded on highlight videos.

Where's this survey that you asked all these fans? Got results? Didnt think so.

[Skins4481]

Are you referring to the highlight videos? I thought we had already established the fact that players cannot be graded on highlight videos.

Where's this survey that you asked all these fans? Got results? Didnt think so.

No I'm not referring to highlight videos. All they establish is the fact that Sean Taylor hits harder than Roy Williams. I'm talking about watching the actual game footage.

I didnt do a survey myself but anytime a fan of another team voices in their opinion on this topic, they pick Taylor.

Here is some proof for ya...a link to an ESPN chat wrap. Check out the Roy Williams Sean Taylor question.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165692&page=1&pp=15&highlight=williamson

:dallasuck

[TEK2000]

No I'm not referring to highlight videos. All they establish is the fact that Sean Taylor hits harder than Roy Williams. I'm talking about watching the actual game footage.

I didnt do a survey myself but anytime a fan of another team voices in their opinion on this topic, they pick Taylor.

Here is some proof for ya...a link to an ESPN chat wrap. Check out the Roy Williams Sean Taylor question.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165692&page=1&pp=15&highlight=williamson

:dallasuck

Okay... that's 1 guy... you've got a long survey to go if we're going to go this slow.

How much game footage have you seen of Roy Williams over his career?

I will be honest and tell you that, living in the Dallas area, obviously I don't get much of a chance to see Redskins games outside of when the Skins/Boys play each year. SO, I don't get to see A LOT of Sean Taylor. This is EXACTLY the reason you will not find me making a ruling on who is better and what not.

This is also a reason why I happen to be on this forum. I am a big fan of Roy Williams.. I have watched him since his early seasons at Oklahoma thru every season as a Cowboy.

The constant debate between Cowboys and Redskins over who is better is, for the most part, ridiculous. The problem is that rarely does EITHER side present solid evidence to support their opinions. In most all cases, its a general statement or opinion based on hype or someone else's assessment of Roy Williams being "overrated".

In all honesty, I am just looking for legitimate, intelligent, and CIVILIZED discussion on comparing 2 GREAT SAFETIES!

If anyone cares to jump in on this, I'd love to hear the side of the KNOWLEDGABLE Sean Taylor fans.

ALTHOUGH, its not likely that we could ever come to an agreement on the topic... it would still be enlightening for both side of the discussion I'm sure.

[skins4eva]

Hey, TEK is a good guy everyone--I back him--he's here to talk football.

[skins4eva]

Okay... that's 1 guy... you've got a long survey to go if we're going to go this slow.

How much game footage have you seen of Roy Williams over his career?

I will be honest and tell you that, living in the Dallas area, obviously I don't get much of a chance to see Redskins games outside of when the Skins/Boys play each year. SO, I don't get to see A LOT of Sean Taylor. This is EXACTLY the reason you will not find me making a ruling on who is better and what not.

This is also a reason why I happen to be on this forum. I am a big fan of Roy Williams.. I have watched him since his early seasons at Oklahoma thru every season as a Cowboy.

The constant debate between Cowboys and Redskins over who is better is, for the most part, ridiculous. The problem is that rarely does EITHER side present solid evidence to support their opinions. In most all cases, its a general statement or opinion based on hype or someone else's assessment of Roy Williams being "overrated".

In all honesty, I am just looking for legitimate, intelligent, and CIVILIZED discussion on comparing 2 GREAT SAFETIES!

If anyone cares to jump in on this, I'd love to hear the side of the KNOWLEDGABLE Sean Taylor fans.

ALTHOUGH, its not likely that we could ever come to an agreement on the topic... it would still be enlightening for both side of the discussion I'm sure.

You raise a good point--not many of us watch enough dallas games to really understand the impact that RW has, which obviously is true of cowboys fans when it comes to taylor.

KC brings up an very good point often overlooked: they do not play the same position. They are both great players, but very different. You ask for stats: well, you can see the stats for yourself at espn.com, etc. The fact of the matter is that it's difficult to account for a positon like FS or even SS through stats alone. Safties these days, especially gifted ones like Taylor and RW do so many different things, that the stats are merely a jumping off point, they certainly don't give you the whole picture.

[Skins4481]

Okay... that's 1 guy... you've got a long survey to go if we're going to go this slow.

How much game footage have you seen of Roy Williams over his career?

I will be honest and tell you that, living in the Dallas area, obviously I don't get much of a chance to see Redskins games outside of when the Skins/Boys play each year. SO, I don't get to see A LOT of Sean Taylor. This is EXACTLY the reason you will not find me making a ruling on who is better and what not.

This is also a reason why I happen to be on this forum. I am a big fan of Roy Williams.. I have watched him since his early seasons at Oklahoma thru every season as a Cowboy.

The constant debate between Cowboys and Redskins over who is better is, for the most part, ridiculous. The problem is that rarely does EITHER side present solid evidence to support their opinions. In most all cases, its a general statement or opinion based on hype or someone else's assessment of Roy Williams being "overrated".

In all honesty, I am just looking for legitimate, intelligent, and CIVILIZED discussion on comparing 2 GREAT SAFETIES!

If anyone cares to jump in on this, I'd love to hear the side of the KNOWLEDGABLE Sean Taylor fans.

ALTHOUGH, its not likely that we could ever come to an agreement on the topic... it would still be enlightening for both side of the discussion I'm sure.

First of all I'm not doing a survey, at least yet. I'm just telling you what I have observed.

What the hell do you want when you say "KNOWLEDGABLE"? Less than 1% of Cowboys fans have any football knowledge and only 2% of you idiots have an IQ over 80.

Let me ask you this question: Who do you think is better: Roy Williams or Ed Reed? And why? How many Ravens games have you seen?

Being as 2 of my cousins are Cowboys fans and that they show a lot of Cowboys games in the DC area, I have seen plenty of RW. He is a good player but he is not the player Sean Taylor is. Roy Williams was really impressive in College. He was also really good his rookie and sophomore years. After that it seems as if his play has dropped off some. Maybe its the fact that he had Darren Woodson next to him. That would make anyone better. Sean Taylor had Ryan Clark. Makes Taylor look that much better.

[Skins4481]

Hey, TEK is a good guy everyone--I back him--he's here to talk football.

Yea he seems ok over here at OUR HOUSE but over at CZ he is different. Kind of like Eternal Cowboy(HeavyHitta31). At first he seemed ok but then he showed his true side. I expect the same thing from TEK2000.

[Ken]

This might be a suprise to you but Sean Taylor is ALL OVER THE FIELD. Unlike Roy Williams, he excels against BOTH the RUN and the PASS.

BTW, I think that since both players HAVE played FS(and one still does) they can be compared. Obviously, Roy Williams couldnt cut it as a FS and therefore Dallas had to move his ass to SS. Taylor can start playing SS tomorrow and do it better than Roy Williams.

Are you suggesting that FS is a more important position than SS?

Everyone in the NFL would disagree with you if you were....

[Taylor 36]

the way he answered it you know he didnt want to get in the middle of it.

:laugh: Yeah, I noticed that too.

[Dirk Diggler]

Are you suggesting that FS is a more important position than SS?

Everyone in the NFL would disagree with you if you were....

I thought it was common knowledge that FS is more important than SS? Not only are the salaries higher but there's less turnover at FS because they are harder to find. I won't even get into the technical aspects of the debate.

I would say the vast majority of coaches would rather have a great FS and mediocre SS rather than the other way around.

[dinzelwashington]

Yes, but Taylor isn't a liability in run support, while Williams is a liability in coverage.

monday night football. santana moss.. liability??? hmmmm or is santana moss that good...

[drums and skins]

This thread reminds me of any day during the week.

Same ****, different day.

Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. They play different positions. Okay, that's fine.

But I haven't noticed much of Roy Williams flying to the ball like Taylor does in the games I've seen. Just like Polamalu...Always right there where the ball is. Its amazing how guys like this can really cover the entire field.

[Skins4481]

Are you suggesting that FS is a more important position than SS?

Everyone in the NFL would disagree with you if you were....

yes, that is EXACTLY what I'm suggesting.

[TEK2000]

This thread reminds me of any day during the week.

Same ****, different day.

Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. They play different positions. Okay, that's fine.

But I haven't noticed much of Roy Williams flying to the ball like Taylor does in the games I've seen. Just like Polamalu...Always right there where the ball is. Its amazing how guys like this can really cover the entire field.

Roy Williams has more tackles in most seasons than Sean Taylor... how are you judging "flying to the ball?"

Polamalu gets to roam the field and freelance a heck of a lot more than Taylor or Williams from what I have seen. He has more tackles than both of them... but has generated LESS turnovers than Williams or Taylor. This is exactly the reason why I think he is a little overhyped.