skinny21 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Roy Williams has more tackles in most seasons than Sean Taylor... how are you judging "flying to the ball?"Polamalu gets to roam the field and freelance a heck of a lot more than Taylor or Williams from what I have seen. He has more tackles than both of them... but has generated LESS turnovers than Williams or Taylor. This is exactly the reason why I think he is a little overhyped. Williams playing the SS position, I would sincerely hope he had more tackles. I'm guessing he was talking about the "oh damn! Where the hell did he come from... did you see that?!" kind of 'flying to the ball' :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Yes, but Taylor isn't a liability in run support, while Williams is a liability in coverage. :doh: This will never stop will it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEK2000 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 First of all I'm not doing a survey, at least yet. I'm just telling you what I have observed. What the hell do you want when you say "KNOWLEDGABLE"? Less than 1% of Cowboys fans have any football knowledge and only 2% of you idiots have an IQ over 80. Let me ask you this question: Who do you think is better: Roy Williams or Ed Reed? And why? How many Ravens games have you seen? Being as 2 of my cousins are Cowboys fans and that they show a lot of Cowboys games in the DC area, I have seen plenty of RW. He is a good player but he is not the player Sean Taylor is. Roy Williams was really impressive in College. He was also really good his rookie and sophomore years. After that it seems as if his play has dropped off some. Maybe its the fact that he had Darren Woodson next to him. That would make anyone better. Sean Taylor had Ryan Clark. Makes Taylor look that much better. You expect people to take you seriously when you throw out that kind of crap? You have yet to exhibit a good knowledge of football or the ability to discuss it, yet you are quick to call 99+% of Cowboy fans football idiots. Good form . Don't expect another response from me if you just want to throw idiotic comments out like that. At this point, I lean towards Ed Reed based on his play during the previous few seasons. He certainly seems to be one of the absolute best coverage safeties. But I would rank Roy Williams higher than Reed in run support. This is a tough comparison because you're talking about Roy Williams who is one of the largest safeties versus Ed Reed one of the smaller safeties. Roy Williams had the luxury of playing next to Darren Woodson for much of his 1st 2 seasons.. that certainly helps in his ability to focus on HIS JOB ONLY. Many times during the 2005 season, you could see Roy trying to cheat over to help take care of Keith Davis. In 2004 he was playing with Tony Dixon... who is not even in the NFL anymore. The problem is that Roy was used a lot more to his ability in his first 2 seasons... the last 2 seasons he's been playing almost exclusively in coverage due to the fact that our Free Safeties were so poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 No you live in a fantasy world where you think Roy Williams is good So it's a fantasy Bubba to believe that Roy Williams is just good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 If we're going to play the Pro Bowl card then Lito Sheppard is better than Terrence Newman. And I'm sure you believe that DD.. pro-bowls or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 This might be a suprise to you but Sean Taylor is ALL OVER THE FIELD. Unlike Roy Williams, he excels against BOTH the RUN and the PASS. BTW, I think that since both players HAVE played FS(and one still does) they can be compared. Obviously, Roy Williams couldnt cut it as a FS and therefore Dallas had to move his ass to SS. Taylor can start playing SS tomorrow and do it better than Roy Williams. Not a very smart statement considering Roy's natural position is SS. You speak as if he's a FS who was demoted to SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Ask fans of other teams(not Cowboys or Redskins) and at least 9 out of 10 will say they'd pick Sean Taylor over Roy Williams This has been done, and RW keeps winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEK2000 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Williams playing the SS position, I would sincerely hope he had more tackles. I'm guessing he was talking about the "oh damn! Where the hell did he come from... did you see that?!" kind of 'flying to the ball' :2cents: I wish Roy Williams got to play EXCLUSIVELY as a SS. For the most part, the FS and SS positions were interchangeable in the Dallas defense in 2005. We haven't had a ballhawking FS for the past few seasons, so Roy is often in deep coverage on passing downs. "oh damn! Where the hell did he come from... did you see that?!" If you haven't had very many comments like that when you're watching Roy Williams play... I don't think you've seen enough of him. (I dont mean that as a criticism) What I mean is... there are usually several times a game where Roy will come flying from off the screen and make the tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRay Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 This has been done, and RW keeps winning. Surrrrrrrrrrrre he keeps winning :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEK2000 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Surrrrrrrrrrrre he keeps winning :laugh: And you have evidence to prove otherwise? So many people just throwing out comments without anything to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 You raise a good point--not many of us watch enough dallas games to really understand the impact that RW has, which obviously is true of cowboys fans when it comes to taylor. KC brings up an very good point often overlooked: they do not play the same position. They are both great players, but very different. You ask for stats: well, you can see the stats for yourself at espn.com, etc. The fact of the matter is that it's difficult to account for a positon like FS or even SS through stats alone. Safties these days, especially gifted ones like Taylor and RW do so many different things, that the stats are merely a jumping off point, they certainly don't give you the whole picture. :thumbsup: I think were on to something here. Most free safeties are required to and should be better cover guys than strong safeties. :2cents: People just hear the word safety and want to immediately compare. Stat-wise RW is better in every category save for passes defensed in which a free safety will more than likely lead. Most corners are superior in coverage than free safeties.. etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 What the hell do you want when you say "KNOWLEDGABLE"? Less than 1% of Cowboys fans have any football knowledge and only 2% of you idiots have an IQ over 80. Nice! Your credibility and intelligence shines brighter with each post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeownU Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 And you have evidence to prove otherwise?So many people just throwing out comments without anything to support it. Welcome to the board TEK. This has been debated and debated and debated to death. You will not win here. All you will get is "Roy is a liability in coverage" and "Santana beat him twice". Nevermind the facts. You have to realize that before Taylor got to DC, the skins fans were very envious of RW. It killed them that we had a killer, hard hitting safety. So when they got a good one, they put him on a pedestal so high that he would get a nosebleed. Nevermind all the missed tackles, problems off the field, or spitting incidents. He is Godlike, and don't you forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I thought it was common knowledge that FS is more important than SS? Not only are the salaries higher but there's less turnover at FS because they are harder to find. I won't even get into the technical aspects of the debate.I would say the vast majority of coaches would rather have a great FS and mediocre SS rather than the other way around. Convinient, given that your guy plays FS huh? Far too many holes and speculation here to be taken seriously. You build your team around the strength of your personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 This thread reminds me of any day during the week.Same ****, different day. Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. They play different positions. Okay, that's fine. But I haven't noticed much of Roy Williams flying to the ball like Taylor does in the games I've seen. Just like Polamalu...Always right there where the ball is. Its amazing how guys like this can really cover the entire field. RW flies to the ball. This is what he's built his reputation on. The bottom line is that I doubt you're watching RW in other games besides our matchups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Animal Trainer Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 RW flies to the ball. This is what he's built his reputation on. The bottom line is that I doubt you're watching RW in other games besides our matchups. I don't know why cowboys fans waste their energy on this debate. Let me sum it up for you. This is Extremeskins.com, over here Sean Taylor is the better player. Go to Cowboyszone.com if you want to convince people Roy Williams is better. Its like beating a dead horse. Sean Taylor is clearly better, I've seen it with my own eyes. Go over to cowboyszone.com and you'll hear the same argument for roy. And in case you've forgotten..... :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Welcome to the board TEK. This has been debated and debated and debated to death. You will not win here. All you will get is "Roy is a liability in coverage" and "Santana beat him twice".Nevermind the facts. You have to realize that before Taylor got to DC, the skins fans were very envious of RW. It killed them that we had a killer, hard hitting safety. So when they got a good one, they put him on a pedestal so high that he would get a nosebleed. Nevermind all the missed tackles, problems off the field, or spitting incidents. He is Godlike, and don't you forget it. :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailSkinz1 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Well, folks--he actually answered my question, but he split the baby Solomon style. This is my question btw, kinda cool.Cliff (McLean, VA): KC--love your stuff. I'm in a big argument with a cowboys fan about who is better--Sean Taylor or Roy Williams...could you answer it for us? And which do you think will have the better season? Thanks! KC Joyner: (4:15 PM ET ) I am not trying to split the difference but the metrics show Taylor is better at coverage and Williams is better at run support. They play different positions as well, so that makes an apples/apples comparison a bit harder. Here's the only problem with this statement....when the D-line stuffs the RB, there is no run support needed from the Safety! Hail, H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Let me sum it up for you. This is Extremeskins.com, over here Sean Taylor is the better player. Sean Taylor is clearly better, I've seen it with my own eyes. Okay... I don't know about anyone else but know I'm convinced. Sean has to be the greatest... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterwagen Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Okay... I don't know about anyone else but know I'm convinced. Sean has to be the greatest... :laugh:Looking back over the last two pages, I get the distinct feeling that a nerve has been struck. An amazing exhibition of post generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of the Devil Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Yes, but Taylor isn't a liability in run support, while Williams is a liability in coverage. Exactly. Ask any RB Taylor blew up in his career that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Exactly. Ask any RB Taylor blew up in his career that question. Can I also ask the RB/QB/WR/TE that RW has blown up in his career as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Looking back over the last two pages, I get the distinct feeling that a nerve has been struck. An amazing exhibition of post generation. Naah, bored at work still and I was late to the thread. I had alot of nonsense to respond to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRay Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 And you have evidence to prove otherwise?So many people just throwing out comments without anything to support it. Yes, I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRay Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Welcome to the board TEK. This has been debated and debated and debated to death. You will not win here. All you will get is "Roy is a liability in coverage" and "Santana beat him twice".Nevermind the facts. You have to realize that before Taylor got to DC, the skins fans were very envious of RW. It killed them that we had a killer, hard hitting safety. So when they got a good one, they put him on a pedestal so high that he would get a nosebleed. Nevermind all the missed tackles, problems off the field, or spitting incidents. He is Godlike, and don't you forget it. Oh wait a minute now let's not go there about problems off the field. You have no room to talk. What you constitute as hard hitter is not an hard hitter .he's a horse collar yeah, I can see why we're are enivious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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