KC Joyner Chimes in on the Sean Taylor Roy Williams Debate

[ArmchairRedskin]

Notice that in BOTH plays.. Randy Moss almost COMPLETELY STOPS in order to catch the ball. This indicates the fact that if the ball were thrown worth a crap on EITHER of these plays.. its a reception. In the first play, if the ball is thrown LEADING Moss, it would definitely appear that Moss would make the catch. On the 2nd play, if the ball was not so HORRIBLY UNDERTHROWN, Moss would appear to prance into the endzone. The fact is that Taylor only gains ground on Moss and makes the play because the pass is severely underthrown.

The plays are what they are. There is no IF. Those balls were catchable by Moss and defended brilliantly by Taylor. Moss almost always wins a jump ball fight. Not this time. Give credit where it's due.

[DCMA]

Roy Williams is garbage

[ArmchairRedskin]

Excellent coverage on the 1st play there. Palmer shouldn't have thrown that ball.. Taylor had him covered the whole time.

2nd play looks like pass interference to me and an underthrown pass.

You can of course see what you want to, but the result of the play is what's important. INT and incomplete. Against one of the best receivers in the league and Taylor did it as a rookie.

[TEK2000]

My roommate is a die hard dallas cowboys fan. We have NFL Sunday ticket so I can see all the skins games and he can see all the cowboys games. When they don't air at the same time, I watch the cowboys games with him and root against your boys. In fact, there is a damn Roy Williams authentic jersey framed in my living room, signed, "To Ben God Bless, Roy Williams".

I know Sean Taylor is bigger, faster, and stronger than Roy Williams, you don't have to tell me. That quote, "a biscut away from being a linebacker" is directly from Parcells.

Unlike you, I don't base my opinion of a player merely on highlight videos on the internet, I watch the actual games. Sean Taylor is routienly matched up with T.O., Randy Moss, or other big play recievers in G.W.'s system. We're usually blitzing on 3rd down, sometimes a cornerback, which means Sean has to cover one on one. He did it against Keyshawn several times last year versus dallas.

I maintain my point that Sean Taylor is better in coverage than Roy Williams and he hits just as hard, if not harder. Taylor can do anything Roy can do. Roy can't cover his own shadow.

Find a quote of me saying my opinion of Sean Taylor. YOU WONT! If you read my posts, you'll see that I'm merely just discussing the 2 players.

I've CLEARLY stated that I have NOT seen enough of Sean Taylor and therefore I do not make statements to his ability. The only thing I've pointed out is what I see in the plays that I HAVE SEEN.

That quote is a normal "Parcellism"... just like him calling Skyler Green "fat" upon reporting to minicamp this summer.

There's no need to continually make judgements about me or attempt to insult my intelligence... I call it LIKE I SEE IT and I HAVE NOT and WILL NOT say anything along the lines of Sean Taylor sucks or isn't good or anything to that effect.

[The Animal Trainer]

Well this is a redskins site, so you will continually see people bash roy williams, the cowboys, and cowboys fans. All in good fun. Like I said, my roommate is a diehard cowboys fan, autographed roy williams jersey on the wall...I have this debate with him, alot. If you look back throughout this debate, I've continually said we're beating a dead horse, everyone here is high on Sean Taylor like everyone at cowboyszone is high on Roy Williams. You'll find people here who range from "Sean Taylor is slightly better than Roy Williams, they're both great players" to "Sean Taylor can whip Chuck Norris' ass, he's a monster, Roy Willaims is garbage". Just like you would at CZ.com with the player's names reversed. I fall somewhere in between that range depending on my mood. All in good fun. But lets not forget, over here :dallasuck

[TEK2000]

Well this is a redskins site, so you will continually see people bash roy williams, the cowboys, and cowboys fans. All in good fun. Like I said, my roommate is a diehard cowboys fan, autographed roy williams jersey on the wall...I have this debate with him, alot. If you look back throughout this debate, I've continually said we're beating a dead horse, everyone here is high on Sean Taylor like everyone at cowboyszone is high on Roy Williams. You'll find people here who range from "Sean Taylor is slightly better than Roy Williams, they're both great players" to "Sean Taylor can whip Chuck Norris' ass, he's a monster, Roy Willaims is garbage". Just like you would at CZ.com with the player's names reversed. I fall somewhere in between that range depending on my mood. All in good fun. But lets not forget, over here :dallasuck

Yeah, the Cowboys/Williams bashing is unavoidable here.. just like the Redskins/Taylor bashing would be rampant on a Cowboys forum. I just try to ignore the posts like "Roy Williams is garbage".

Can't disagree with ya there.. other than the fact, thru this past offseason, it was quite popular for even Cowboys fans to bash Roy Williams. The problem I have is that the only arguments that are ever brought up to bash Roy Williams are the 2 Santana Moss plays (other than the ridiculous horse collar comments). Just like lots of Cowboys fans throw out the 1 play when Crayton scored a TD behind Sean Taylor in 2004.

My main purpose visiting this forum is honestly to see what Redskins fans have to say regarding Sean Taylor. Obviously, I'm not interested in the Homer Calls... but more in the knowledgable opinions of people that can really offer great points and examples about the player. For example, I've got a list of game changing plays by Roy Williams.... I'd be interested to see the game changing plays Sean Taylor has pulled off in his career.

For me, I'll be downloading as many Sunday Ticket Shortcuts of Redskins games as I can this season just to see the full extent of Sean Taylor's game.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Can't disagree with ya there.. other than the fact, thru this past offseason, it was quite popular for even Cowboys fans to bash Roy Williams. The problem I have is that the only arguments that are ever brought up to bash Roy Williams are the 2 Santana Moss plays (other than the ridiculous horse collar comments). Just like lots of Cowboys fans throw out the 1 play when Crayton scored a TD behind Sean Taylor in 2004.

What do you mean by ridiculous?

[The Animal Trainer]

Sean Taylor won us 2 games last year. He scored against Philly and Tampa late in the season. That backbreaking hit on Crayton against the cowboys also sealed the game for us. That could have been a 1st down and the drive would have continued, possibly resulting in a field goal and an L. Taylor is definately a game changer.

[TEK2000]

What do you mean by ridiculous?

Like when people claim that he can't hit people because he's too busy horse collaring people.

He's never broken the rule that was named after him. And prior to it being a rule... there was never a word said about ANYONE tackling that way.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Like when people claim that he can't hit people because he's too busy horse collaring people.

He's never broken the rule that was named after him. And prior to it being a rule... there was never a word said about ANYONE tackling that way.

Well Roy has never been the poster child for textbook tackling, but I can see how claiming Roy can't tackle outside of horsecollaring is ridiculous.

However, you have to acknowledge that the way he slides forward while bringing the player down is what seperates his horsecollar tackles from the ones that don't injure players. That's why the rule was named after him.

[TEK2000]

Sean Taylor won us 2 games last year. He scored against Philly and Tampa late in the season. That backbreaking hit on Crayton against the cowboys also sealed the game for us. That could have been a 1st down and the drive would have continued, possibly resulting in a field goal and an L. Taylor is definately a game changer.

Just looking at the stats and play by play. He did everything he could to give you guys a much bigger lead on the Cardinals... but Brunell kept throwing interceptions in the Red Zone.

I remember seeing the fumble recovery for TD against Tampa Bay... good heads up play.

[TEK2000]

Well Roy has never been the poster child for textbook tackling, but I can see how claiming Roy can't tackle outside of horsecollaring is ridiculous.

However, you have to acknowledge that the way he slides forward while bringing the player down is what seperates his horsecollar tackles from the ones that don't injure players. That's why the rule was named after him.

During the 2004 season it proved to be dangerous but prior to that, I don't recall him ever injuring anyone with that method. And Roy said he's used that method all the way from junior high football up to the NFL.

The problem is that that is basis for anyone calling Roy a dirty player. In no way did Roy ever tackle people like that in a malicious manner intending to injure anyone.

[ArmchairRedskin]

During the 2004 season it proved to be dangerous but prior to that, I don't recall him ever injuring anyone with that method. And Roy said he's used that method all the way from junior high football up to the NFL.

The problem is that that is basis for anyone calling Roy a dirty player. In no way did Roy ever tackle people like that in a malicious manner intending to injure anyone.

Well I'm not sure what changed in 2004, but it's not a coincidence that he injured multiple players with similiar tackles.

I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I know what his mindset was when he made those tackles, but you have to consider that he had tape of himself making those tackles to look at where he injured the legs of those players. He's not totally innocent in that he made no adjustment. I mean I can look at those plays and see exactly why those players were hurt. He and his coaches had to recognize those same things, yet it took an NFL ruling to bring change. I don't absolve him completely.

[Skins4481]

The survey conversation goes a few pages back... you said 9 out of 10 and I asked for the SURVEY results to your statement.

I believe Ronnie Lott did say that of the safeties in the NFL today.. Roy Williams most reminds him of himself. Like you, I don't bookmark everything either... but I did read this from someone quoting a radio interview done by some guys on Sirius or XM interviewing Ronnie Lott.

By the way, now that I think about it.. that article doesn't really serve your purpose. The guy says he's the hardest hitter... it doesn't say anything about that he WOULD CHOOSE Taylor over Williams.

And no.. just because someone doesn't agree with me doesn't mean its stupid. Its dumb because he's basing his argument on stats that ARE NOT the best in the NFL, size of players, and 40 yard dash times. Do you really think that's the best way to prove a point on who the best safety in the NFL is?

HAHA.. you caught a misspelled word... good for you... want a cookie? How about you drop the intelligence insults... otherwise, it just shows that you're incapable of making a post without having to attack the person you're directing your post at.

No the guy asked Ronnie Lott who reminds him of himself and he just said he likes to watch Roy Williams play. He didnt say RW reminds him of himself. I would also like to know WHEN(what year) he said that.

I have a question for you. Why do you keep posting here? Why do you keep reading our posts? I mean you have stated to your fellow retarded Cowboys buddies that EVERYONE you've ever seen post here sound like they are 14 or younger. Since you're such a smart, knowledgable, football fan why do you bother with us?

I am more than capable of making posts without insulting someone. I just dont like you. I've seen your posts at CZ and you act like you're so 'knowledgable' and Redskins fans are all idiots. I insult you because you say stupid :pooh: over at CZ and over here you try to be decent. A lot like HeavyHitta31.

TEK2000 = :jerk:

[TEK2000]

No the guy asked Ronnie Lott who reminds him of himself and he just said he likes to watch Roy Williams play. He didnt say RW reminds him of himself. I would also like to know WHEN(what year) he said that.

I have a question for you. Why do you keep posting here? Why do you keep reading our posts? I mean you have stated to your fellow retarded Cowboys buddies that EVERYONE you've ever seen post here sound like they are 14 or younger. Since you're such a smart, knowledgable, football fan why do you bother with us?

I am more than capable of making posts without insulting someone. I just dont like you. I've seen your posts at CZ and you act like you're so 'knowledgable' and Redskins fans are all idiots. I insult you because you say stupid :pooh: over at CZ and over here you try to be decent. A lot like HeavyHitta31.

TEK2000 = :jerk:

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