Al Saunders: Good for the Long Term, Bad for the short term?

[NoCalMike]

I just want to start off by saying this has little to do with the happenings in the preseason, I just didn't get on the computer over the weekend to post this, so I had to wait until now, so here I go.

The signing of Al Saunders to me was something that will probably pay off over the 2008, 2009 seasons, once Jason Campbell takes at QB, however I do wonder as a fan, if implimenting an entirely new offense, will take this team back a step or two in 2006. I have looked at every team in the NFC East and tried to think of one thing from each team that could cause them to dissapoint in 2006, and for the Redskins I think this is the only thing I can come up with, we have the Defense, we have the skill players on offense, special teams, well umm...hah. I am not sure if a stat sheet even exists on how often a team running a new offense goes to the superbowl, and considering that we were an INT, and a Shawn Springs groin injury away from the NFC Championship last year, I guess the barometer of success for 2006 is whether we get to at least the NFC CHampionship game this year.

While I was sitting around thinking about the Al Saunders pick up, and how it is going to drastically change the offense, it made me think back to all the highlights of the Redskins in their glory years, and how they seemed to pass the ball all over the place just fine and then it hit me. Was the problem in 2005, not Joe Gibbs/Bugel's offense, but the fact that we were lacking the skill players to execute it. Lets face it, besides Santana Moss, there was no WR to fear on this team. Yes we had Cooley and he exceeded all expectations, but he isn't a WR. The Redskins WR core in 2005, was a far cry from the Posse of old, but now in 2006, we actually do have a pretty fearsome WR core, one that could probably flourish in ANY offense.

Now to my other concern. Mark Brunell. At 37, is it really the right time for a guy to be learning a brand new offense? With Jason Campbell waiting in the wing, 2006 is probably Brunell's last hurrah as a starting QB in the league, and I am a little troubled that he is going to spent it trying to "learn as he goes" the way it often is for a QB in a brand new system. Also there was that little blurb from Collins about it taking a year to be comfortable in this system. Lets make no mistake about it, when Jason Campbell finally does take over the reigns, it will probably take the team backwards initially, while he goes through his first ten or so games, and that is completely understandable, but you'd think the time to do that is now, when the entire offense is learning together. I personally, would prefer Campbell to be up to speed with the rest of the offense by the time 2007 and 2008 roll around and everyone has the system down to a T. I really don't like the prospect of Campbell being a year behind the rest of the boys.

In closing, I just want to say that I am not against the Saunders signing, I think it will pay off very well in the long term, however I just have to wonder if 2006 will end up being a year of sacrifice, with all the adjusting and learning of a new offensive system.

[truskinsfan18]

I think we should be fine...Gibbs will do what he has to for us to be successful

[BG]

I think you bring up a very valid point, and I can't say that I totally disagree with your worry.

What I do think is that because Saunders and Gibbs' philosophies are similar, that there won't be such a learning curver. Furthermore, I do believe that Saunders isn't throwing the house at these players. I think he has improved Gibbs' playbook, added some new wrinkles and changed some blocking schemes.

More or less, I bleive Al is steadily revamping this offense. I don't believe it is a complete overhaul.

[endzone_dave]

I think Saunders is keeping things very simple until the season starts. I'm still not worrying, yet.

[NYSkinsfan82]

I have to agree on a lot of what you are saying, I know Saunders play book is pretty in depth just like Greg Williams defense is. The more playing time all the players get the better. I really don't think Campbell is going to behind a year, they are all learning the system. Really Campbell is just learning more mechanics, and studying defenses so he will be able to perform at top notch when he gets the starting role. You must have all QBs know the system, so they can go in at a moments notice and run the offense without any hitches. I really think there is a reason we have Brunell, Campbell's style is a lot like Brunell's when he was at the very top of his game in Jacksonville, he could throw, and scramble thats a plus in the NFL today. I think Campbell is fine where he is and really in the best position right now.

[Skins n' Bones]

I can see your point....it took Vermiel/Saunders a year or two to get things going both in St. Louis and KC. BUT as BG said, his system is similar to Gibbs's, and they supposedly will actually be running a hybrid of the two which should help. Not to mention - and this is the big thing - that those teams did not have our Defense. The D should be able to carry the team (again) if it takes a while for the O to really get going. I'd like them to do a little more in preseason, but with our talent and especially our coaching staff, I'm not worried.

[Peregrine]

I completely disagree. The offense in 2005 didnt struggle because of lack of players, it struggled because it just wasnt inventive in any way shape or form. Defenses KNEW what was coming. Go back and watch film, watch LBers keying on the run at the snap of the ball, and not at the handoff(a couple second difference).

Saunders has had good success implementing his gameplan in the first year of a new team, so I fully expect our offense to be better this year than it was last.

[DaveP666]

I think us hungry fans want to win so bad we even count the preseason as part of the real season. Look at last years preseason or other previous ones where, say, we went on to win the superbowl. Were we as worried then at this point about our offensive co-ordinator? Im behind what you said. I'd gladly sacrifice this season, and Mark Brunel's last year as a starter, to go on and blow the score record off the board and win back to back superbowls like the Cowboys did in the 90's. It's all about building while trying to keep a team together now free agency is an issue.

[Stew]

Also there was that little blurb from Collins about it taking a year to be comfortable in this system.

I agree with what your saying, learning on the run for a 37 yr old QB making his last respectable shot at a SB, isnt an ideal situation. However, it makes me laugh when I hear people bring up that Collins quote because, if it takes a year to learn the system then whats Collins excuse? He has been in that system like 7 years and still stinks up the joint when he gets put in. Campbell will start over Collins. Also Brunell is a much more talented player then Collins. He will get the system just fine I think. :2cents:

[PCRoughrider]

Good for the long term. Good for the short term.

[DaveP666]

Imagine what other teams will be thinking... Im sure Joe Gibbs, Greg and Al are all planning a smoke screen for what is to come. Keep them thinking CP is hurt while slowly building Jason Campbells confidence and sorting out the WR's and kicking game in preseason.

I cant wait to see out first team go a whole game.

[SkinsNatsFan]

No disrespect here, I understand it's just a topic for discussion, but I don't understand why so many people give no credit to Joe Gibbs, Al Saunders, and the rest of the coaching staff when it comes to these things? I'm not saying that Joe Gibbs can do no wrong, although I'm sure some will have fun interpreting it that way. I'm saying that he doesn't miss the obvious.

If you can come up with this while just sitting around thinking about it, don't you think that someone as meticulous, professional and successful as Joe Gibbs, who's doing this full time, professionally, considered these things before he even hired Al Saunders?

And don't you think the two of them together, along with the rest of the staff on offense realize the impact major changes to the offense could have on the success of the team?

And that maybe they have a plan, based on their combined experience, to make sure that the offense is successful this year? And maybe the plan is detailed enough to consider the strengths and weaknesses of each individual player, including each player's ability, or lack of ability, to learn quickly?

My guess would be that they've been working overtime on this since Al Saunders was hired to make sure that this offense is successful this season and beyond.

[SWFLSkins]

Also there was that little blurb from Collins about it taking a year to be comfortable in this system.

Good post Mike, but I don't think Saunders would sacrifice the '06 campaign to install his entire playbook. Also a side note-Collins is saying it would take a year to learn, based on his skills at this point, I would say our other two could pick it up much quicker. The guy may know the system, but he really has not shown much while using that extensive knowledge.

[SittingBull]

What was KC's offense ranked Saunders first year there?

[TrueNBlue]

I do wonder how Gibbs is going to react if the offense struggles out of the gate. This is his first year to not be the playcaller and overall commander of the offense. This CEO head coach stuff sounds good in offseason theory, but how Gibbs reacts when the team is pinned down in the foxhole with the bullets flying could be interesting. How flexible will Saunders be to Gibbs' input if his carte blanche is removed at some point in the season.

[Voice of Reason]

The idea that Saunders' offensive schemes are very similar to Gibbs' offensive schemes is debatable. Gibbs contends that the offenses are very similar in terminology, but the term Brunell used to compare the offenses was "very different". And a few weeks ago Collins suggested that it takes one or two seasons of playing under Saunders to really grasp the system.

When Saunders took over the Chiefs in 2001, the offense ranked fourth in total yards, up from its 2000 rank of eight. The team went from 1,465 to 2,008 rushing yards with Saunders' arrival, but the passing game regressed even though the offense arguably had more talent in the passing game that year. With Elvis Grbac at quarterback, the 2000 Chiefs passed for 4,408 yards, but with Trent Green at quarterback, the 2001 Cheifs passed for only 3,863 yards and threw 24 interceptions. The offense also went from number nine in points scored to number 16 in Saunders' first year.

Good for the long term, bad for the short term.

[Passizle]

I completely disagree. The offense in 2005 didnt struggle because of lack of players, it struggled because it just wasnt inventive in any way shape or form. Defenses KNEW what was coming. Go back and watch film, watch LBers keying on the run at the snap of the ball, and not at the handoff(a couple second difference).

Saunders has had good success implementing his gameplan in the first year of a new team, so I fully expect our offense to be better this year than it was last.

I disagree with you on this point. If defenses were so keen to the running game, Portis would not have set a new franchise rushing record.

Me thinks that our demise had more to do with injuries and wear/tear than a lack of play mechanics.

Saunders has me worried too. I know the guy has a proven track record, but if Gibbs is a smash-mouth football play caller, and Saunders is a west-coast offense type play caller, how can anyone say that their play calling is similar.

I have this wierd feeling that Gibbs is going to take back the reigns before too long. You can already read it in his face that he really wants this team to get the prize this year. You can also read that he is not impressed with the way our beloved Skins have handled the offense so far. If you cant seem to execute "vanilla" type plays, how in the hell are you going to start executing complex schemes and variations on an already proven offensive scheme. We lost games by inches last year. 3 pts or less. We could have easily had a 14 - 2 record last year with a couple of lucky bounces our way. That would have made the difference in the playoffs.

I want it as bad as anyone, problem is... I want it this year. I have waited oh so long...:2cents:

[SKINZ33]

I don't think that there is a complete change in philosophy this year as Saunders is more so "remixing" Gibbs' playbook. Brunell has been in the league long enough to know how to quickly pick up the little details that seperate offensive philosophies and Campbell will be ready to roll when it's his turn IMO.

You brought up a good point in our ability to be successful with player additions however I think that Gibbs saw this as an opportunity to build for the future long after he's done (hence the hiring os Saunders). During this "transitional" time though he has found a way to integrate those changes in a way that I believe can and will help the team be successful this season and beyond.

[NoCalMike]

I think during the Bengals game, Al Michaels said something to the effect that Joe Gibbs will still hear what plays are being called through his head set, and that he has final veto power over the plays being called. I am not exactly sure what that means, does that mean that Gibbs can actually say back to Saunders, "No, I think we should run "insert play here" instead" ? If that is so, then I do see a possible conflict, but only if the Skins start out of the gate slow.

[blloyd33]

Good question.

Could be good / bad. Or not.

Could be bad / good. Or not.

Could be bad / bad. Or not.

Could be good / good. Or not.

I can't decide.

[stevenaa]

Valid points NoCal, but keep in mind the terminology is similar and you can bet things will get phased in. I think there will be a learning curve, but I can't imagine the staff isn't taking that into consideration and proceeding accordingly.

[Skins81]

Relax, we havent even seen one play with motion. Think about these teams we have played. 2 flea flickers, a reverse, onside kick, 3 4th downs gone for, roll out punt, and if you noticed they were faking a FG but were called for delay of game. In other words they are game planning on some level and we are not. Nobody can tell me these games mean anything to our season!

[worstSeat]

The offense in 2005 didnt struggle because of lack of players, it struggled because it just wasnt inventive in any way shape or form. Defenses KNEW what was coming.

Two words for the first half of that quote: Jimmy. Farris.

Second half, I believe Gibbs' philosophy is that if you can do what you want even when the other team knows what you're doing, you can't help but win. Who is it here that's got the Russ Grimm (iirc) quote in their sig where he tells the other team what play's coming? Being able to telegraph your gameplan and win isn't really winning at all. It's owning.

I'm glad the Skins signed some quality WR help, but I'm less sold on Saunders -- certainly in the short term -- after the last two weeks.

[Snagletooth]

Joe Gibbs is our coach. Snyder the owner. Its the Redskins! We don't have the luxury of sacraficing a season.. a game... for Campbell... for Saunders. We must win now. Despite any adversity. We can't take a step back.

I worry too. The offense has the look of a team that could, under Saunders, make 5 big plays, followed by a bad one. Consistenly.

Joe won't allow that. They will have a game plan prepared, if it becomes necessary to go more conservative. And we will adapt to the Al Saunders game. It will be a process. We won't take a step back.