Destino Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 We're talking about the Axis of Evil.As far as domestic issues, a lot of stuff can fall on the states not doing anything. And as for the immigration problem... how can Bush be blamed for stuff that Congress DIDN'T enforce back the 80's? This is all fallout that he's gotta deal with. How does that make it entirely his fault? When an issue spans the terms of numerous presidents, why are you picking only Bush as the problem? Geez could you and Nelms cry some more?! Whaa whaa others did it too!! Whaa stop picking on Bush. No where did I deny other politicians played a role as well. My point was simple - you claimed that those that disagree with Bush do so only because they don't like the man, I disagree. We can go into the war as well if you like. Point is people have valid issues on which they disagree with the President. It's not all moonbat ranting from left wing versions of AFC. That's all I was saying. IMHO.... I think the best course of action is for the U.S. and Japan to talk to China to get them more involved in the talks, as I think NK would probably listen to them better than us.I agree I think China is the big dog on that block and without them being onboard everything else is going to be difficult. Military action by us is all but impossible, if we bomb NK, they bomb SK. I don't see the US being eager to risk that unless NK were to actually attack us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 On my screen, the title of the thread is "N. Korea fires missle." Is it different on everyone elses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 On my screen, the title of the thread is "N. Korea fires missle." Is it different on everyone elses? I agree... this thread has been hijacked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 On my screen, the title of the thread is "N. Korea fires missle." Is it different on everyone elses? I don't know let me check CBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I don't know let me check CBS. I identified my mistake and took corrective action. Try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I identified my mistake and took corrective action. Try it. OK FINE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Something I remember from my youth: I shot a missile into the air. It fell to Earth, I know not where. Untill the next day, when, profound, The man it fell on came around. In less time than it takes to tell, he showed me where that missile fell. And now I do not greatly care to shoot more missiles in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Does anyone remember history? Doesn't this remind anyone of Hitler rearming the Rhineland and then the League of Nations and United States did nothing about it? No. Not a bit, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 So what does everyone think the US response should be to what North Korea did yesterday? We should point at them and laugh. We should refuse to play their little tit for tat game. We should drop millions of leaflets on the country showing a good old fashioned American Thanksgiving dinner. Soon they will implode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Something I remember from my youth: I shot a missile into the air. It fell to Earth, I know not where. Untill the next day, when, profound, The man it fell on came around. In less time than it takes to tell, he showed me where that missile fell. And now I do not greatly care to shoot more missiles in the air. But then I sat and thought a while And told myself "This guy's a pile!" Shot four missiles at the turd And haven't heard another word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 "Hans Brix! Do you know how busy I am?!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 "Hans Brix! Do you know how busy I am?!!" Saddam: you my Boy Blue! Rummy: WHAT UP BRO! -Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Does anyone remember history? Doesn't this remind anyone of Hitler rearming the Rhineland and then the League of Nations and United States did nothing about it? Actually we have planes on the ready and probably a few ships and subs ready to go at a moments notice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 it is very hard to stomach watching Madeline Halfbright and Bill Richardson this morning saying how Bush has messed everything up-but THEY were the ones dealing with the Koreans from 1992-2000 when we could have stopped them from getting a nuke in the first place. it is amazing that the same two people who failed themselves, now are interviewed as "experts" on what Bush is doing :doh: It was his Kim jong 2 dad that said he was getting out of the nuclear business but I have to wonder if it was all for show to get econimic help. Then the younger Jong when he took over continued the program and waited for the right moment to anounce his plans of having nukes. then when aid was cut off got furous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 IT doesn't matter what opinions Lefties or righties have. We cannot drop a nuke on them or anyone else. It will severely distabilize the fragile bonds we and other countries have with each other.Now.... I do believe something has to be done, and I think that more than a few countries have to be involved with talking with NK. IF they continue down this path.... military action will have to be taken... I think the only way we would launch Nukes is as a bunker buster to destroy there nukes and to help contain the spread of the fallout from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Here's the deal. Supposedly reports are coming out of the Pentagon via Cheney (per CNN) that they are starting to understand what went wrong with NK's ICBM. Based upon information, they said that NK is a LONG WAY (possibly a decade) from developing any serious threat to the United States. Based upon this, we have to believe the Kim Jong Il's action are nothing more than posturing. It is kinda like a kid (U.S.) drawing a line in the dirt and telling another kid (N.K.) don't cross it!... Then the kid darts his foot in and out over the line. As of right now NK is only a serious threat to its neighbors, and even that being the case, I don't think they will actually do anything (again posturing). I believe that sanctions against NK should and will be the most likely effect. By the international community imposing sanctions on NK they will not easily be able to manufacture any further ICBM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Here's the deal. Supposedly reports are coming out of the Pentagon via Cheney (per CNN) that they are starting to understand what went wrong with NK's ICBM. Based upon information, they said that NK is a LONG WAY (possibly a decade) from developing any serious threat to the United States. Based upon this, we have to believe the Kim Jong Il's action are nothing more than posturing. It is kinda like a kid (U.S.) drawing a line in the dirt and telling another kid (N.K.) don't cross it!... Then the kid darts his foot in and out over the line.As of right now NK is only a serious threat to its neighbors, and even that being the case, I don't think they will actually do anything (again posturing). I believe that sanctions against NK should and will be the most likely effect. By the international community imposing sanctions on NK they will not easily be able to manufacture any further ICBM's. Aww, we don't need to nuke em? Some people here are going to be terribly disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Aww, we don't need to nuke em? Some people here are going to be terribly disappointed. :laugh: I bet MSF kicked his dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsonny Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 we're fooked now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Right - I really wish someone else was ignoring the immigration problem and the health care problem. How did you know?! Since those problems have been ignored for decades why start worrying about them to much now They are huge problems that wont be fixed right away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Well economic sanctions are starting to occur... I think the US and Japan both have already imposed theirs....I really think it will have a lot to do with the meetings with Kim Jong Il that will occur over the next couple days/weeks. He has 2 choices. 1 is to accept that his attempt at having a viable ballistic missle is farther of than he realized, and basically do whatever the international community wants him to do. 2nd option is for the crazy nutcase to announce it was a complete success, further his program and really piss of the international community then forcing us to possible use military force. How I don't know... IMHO.... I think the best course of action is for the U.S. and Japan to talk to China to get them more involved in the talks, as I think NK would probably listen to them better than us. Thats the problem you can do economic sanctions but unless he is really set on giving it up all the stuff he does get will go directly to his program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallen5862 Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Fox News Channel is saying that the AP is reporting that North Korea has 3 or 4 missles on stands and ready to Launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cogginator Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 My first post here at ES, and not that I don't thoroughly enjoy football, but I also enjoy debating. I'll toss in my two cents. NK is something we left to mop up later after the Chinese caught us off guard back in the Korean War and Truman wouldn't let McArthur get involved in an all-out war with the PRC. Every day this problem is not dealt with, the worse for us. Sure, NK has almost no economy- but they still spend just about every dollar on their military, so booming or not, that's added up over the years. Their drug running and arms smuggling to other "peaceful" regimes like Iran aren't exactly helping us, either. The only good debate I've been hearing is over "when" and not "if," and I will venture to say that NK needs to be dealt with within the next year or two- that's assuming, of course, that they won't just attack SK/Japan to start with. Yes, taking out their nukes would be nice- but considering NK is a police state it's sort of hard to slip people inside to get the necessary intel, no? Given that Seoul is 20-some odd miles from the border, and that the border has about 75k US plus some SK forces vs. 1 mil+ NK troops, Seoul and most of SK will get smashed within the blink of an eye and we'll have to fight back up the peninsula like before. Japan will probably take some hits, but at least China will be happy to stay out as long as nobody provokes it- PRC will use a war against NK to propagandize against the US/Japan (which they do already) while having other people take care of their nutjob nuclear neighbor. It'll be nasty, and NK will get destroyed ultimately, but given the outlook on doing nothing- more intimidation, more threats, and more buildup to back up those threats- time's about up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 And I've already posted two good reasons against an all-out warfare: China (if you're even thinking about invading NK without an all-out guarantee that China will stay out tyhen you're crazier than MSF). And South Korea. (North Korea can't hurt the US (yet), but they can really eff up South Korea, and likely they wouldn't do a lot of good for Japan, either. Just one teensy nuke sent to Japan wouldn't be real nice.) Those're some really big dice you want to roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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