michael_33 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 We hear alot of opinions on who's the best coach of all-time as well as threads that state them,but who is the most OVER-ated? I can only think of a few,but you guys are more than welcome to add to the list... IMO...I think Parcells is getting real close to #1.... Some believe he couldn't have won without Belichick....during the giants era.... And has done squat since being on his own... Others that may make the list... Ditka...Sure his 85 Bears were absolutely dominating,but that was his only appearance...And never did anything while coaching the Saints(of course...we probably shouldn't hold that against him) John Gruden....Took over a very talented DUNGY team and won the superbowl...What has he done since Sapp,Lynch,Dunn and all those guys have left...Got spanked in his own backyard,by a team that should have gone 4-12.... .....in the playoffs...! And this GUY has to be on the list....Marty! If you look at his wins and losses and even playoff appearances,they will probably look HOF type #'s...But I know no coach that chokes worse and more often than any other coach EVER...It's real close... Loses championship game against denver while at Cleveland.... Had one of the great teams in the lates 80's and early 90's with the Chiefs....Derrick Thomas,Neil smith,Okoye,Montana and on and on and on....but never got them to the big game... Then he comes to washington and I believe we know what he did here...Those that somehow could possibly still be upset that he's not our coach anymore...It was like a weight off my shoulders..It truly was! Now he's in San Diego with probably the best RB in the game right now!But a really good supporting cast and yet we sit waiting...?I wouldn't put 1 million dollars on any team to win the superbowl........But I know 1 team that won't! I'm tired of typing...you guys name some coaches! :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappy434 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Tuna....he's lead 4 teams to the playoffs (1st for any coach) but only a few to wins. :gaintsuck:patriotsu:dallasuck:jetssuck: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsair_joe Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Steve Spurrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Jimmy Johnson. He showed up from the college ranks just as a bevy of draft picks fell into his lap, so he was extremely familiar with the upcoming talent at the same time that he was able to go get it. He was the right man at the right place at the right time, and put together an amazing team. But he wasn't a great coach. Johnson without that talent was unspectacular. He took over a 9-7 Miami team and after four years got them to ... 9-7. And in the four years Johnson was the Miami coach, the Dolphins won fewer games (36) than they had the previous four years (39). Dallas, however, did just fine without Johnson, going to two more straight NFC Championship games and winning another SB before the dust settled. Johnson may have kept the ride going a little longer than Switzer, but that's not saying much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canethang 305 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 We hear alot of opinions on who's the best coach of all-time as well as threads that state them,but who is the most OVER-ated?I can only think of a few,but you guys are more than welcome to add to the list... IMO...I think Parcells is getting real close to #1.... Some believe he couldn't have won without Belichick....during the giants era.... And has done squat since being on his own... Others that may make the list... Ditka...Sure his 85 Bears were absolutely dominating,but that was his only appearance...And never did anything while coaching the Saints(of course...we probably shouldn't hold that against him) John Gruden....Took over a very talented DUNGY team and won the superbowl...What has he done since Sapp,Lynch,Dunn and all those guys have left...Got spanked in his own backyard,by a team that should have gone 4-12.... .....in the playoffs...! And this GUY has to be on the list....Marty! If you look at his wins and losses and even playoff appearances,they will probably look HOF type #'s...But I know no coach that chokes worse and more often than any other coach EVER...It's real close... Loses championship game against denver while at Cleveland.... Had one of the great teams in the lates 80's and early 90's with the Chiefs....Derrick Thomas,Neil smith,Okoye,Montana and on and on and on....but never got them to the big game... Then he comes to washington and I believe we know what he did here...Those that somehow could possibly still be upset that he's not our coach anymore...It was like a weight off my shoulders..It truly was! Now he's in San Diego with probably the best RB in the game right now!But a really good supporting cast and yet we sit waiting...?I wouldn't put 1 million dollars on any team to win the superbowl........But I know 1 team that won't! I'm tired of typing...you guys name some coaches! :applause: Marty is far from overated, look at the player's we had when he was the coach here ZIPPY, he had to purge the whole roster to fix the cap which he did and that's why we are where we are now and he still went 8-8. Kansas City didn't fair well before he got there and now there a perenial contender, and San Diego was dreadfull now they are near the top of the AFC. In Cleveland he was an Ernest Byner fumble away from the Super Bowl. So I can't figure your thinking especially since people aren't throwing his name around when great coaches are spoke of. As for your Jon Gruden you hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 A second vote for Steve Spurrier the NFL coach, but not just by all us biased Skins fans. When he was first hired on, EVERY expert/analyst on ESPN, NFL Network etc stated the same thing, "Steve Spurrier WILL succeed in the NFL eventually." Then he turned into a quitter when he found out recruiting the best player at every position was an impossibility in the NFL and you actually had to win with some decent gameplanning. I can't think of a more overhyped coach coming into an NFL job. And I admit I was hooked on too. At least the Ditkas and Schotty's mentioned above have something to show for as far as success at the highest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Spurrier and Ditka are both good calls. Though I don't know if Spurrier still qualifies, because noone still thinks he's all that great ... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPstretch Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 andy reid will be on the list by the end of his career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Although not as successul, I'm thinkin Norv Turner is up there with some of these guys. "Offensive genius" gimme a break. He's has had about one succcessfull season as an NFL coach. Cant put it together anywhere he goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qb18_200400 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Barry Switzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReefa Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I couldn't begin to tell you who the most overrated coaches of all time are. But I'll give you my list for overrated coaches now: Herman Edwards - the guy was unspectaular in New York, to say the least, and the Chiefs gave up picks to get him? If they'd waited a few weeks he probably would have been fired. Andy Reid - A good coach, but not a peer to Gibbs or Parcells. He feasted on chump coaches like Fassel, Spurrier and Campo, who made Reid look much better than he was. A great coach would not have let one player tear his locker room apart like Ried did last season. Also, his playcalling is ridiculous. Jeff Fischer - People ask what Parcells has done without Bellicheck and what Billick has down without Lewis, but I don't hear too many people asking what Fischer has done without Gregg Williams; they should be... Denny Green - Did Carter & Moss make Green AND Culpepper? Green has quite a bit of talent in a crappy division - he had better do a lot more this year than he has done so far. Nick Saban - Being called a miracle worker for taking advantage of an easy second half schedule last season. I'm sure he's a good coach, but he's getting a bit more credit than he deserves right now. Tony Dungy - the D in Tampa Bay was Kiffin's baby, and the O in Indianapolis is Manning's. Dungy has been handed two of the greatest units in recent NFL history, and he can't get to a Super Bowl. The fact that the Boy Wonder was able to take his team and immediately win a title speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Bill Belichick. Yes, he won three Super Bowls in four years, but he won three Super Bowls in four years. It was the same team. Once a team is dominating and gets to a Super Bowl level, then it's SUPPOSED to stay there until it loses its key players. That's how the salary cap era is supposed to work. New England never lost their key players in that four-year span, nor did they have any real competition within their division. The The Patriots won because they had great PLAYERS, but Bill never really did anything to contribute to that. He had the best quarterback in the league magically appear. Gibbs, on the other hand, is the opposite. Hey had some core players, yes, but they were all castoffs. He never had the best quarterback in the league. He's had, what? ONE Hall of Famer and one player who should be in there if it weren't for Z and King? THAT is the sign of a brilliant coach. Three different quarterbacks and runningbacks. I'm so sick of that guy from New England being mentioned in top coach threads. He doesn't deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Although not as successul, I'm thinkin Norv Turner is up there with some of these guys. "Offensive genius" gimme a break. He's has had about one succcessfull season as an NFL coach. Cant put it together anywhere he goes In Dallas, though, he was fantastic. Just like Bugel couldn't hack it as a head coach, but was/is still the greatest line coach to ever breathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 good point newcliche. kinda forgot about that after all these years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeownU Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Jimmy Johnson.He showed up from the college ranks just as a bevy of draft picks fell into his lap, so he was extremely familiar with the upcoming talent at the same time that he was able to go get it. He was the right man at the right place at the right time, and put together an amazing team. But he wasn't a great coach. Johnson without that talent was unspectacular. He took over a 9-7 Miami team and after four years got them to ... 9-7. And in the four years Johnson was the Miami coach, the Dolphins won fewer games (36) than they had the previous four years (39). Dallas, however, did just fine without Johnson, going to two more straight NFC Championship games and winning another SB before the dust settled. Johnson may have kept the ride going a little longer than Switzer, but that's not saying much. I wouldn't say that a bevy of draft picks "fell" into his lap. He flat out took advantage of someone up in Minnesota, but outside of that, I would agree with most of the rest of your post. He was a great evaluator of talent too. But luck doesn't hurt either. And he most certainly had some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 1. Bill Parcells 2. Andy Reid 3. Tom Coughlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Jimmy Johnson.He showed up from the college ranks just as a bevy of draft picks fell into his lap, so he was extremely familiar with the upcoming talent at the same time that he was able to go get it. He was the right man at the right place at the right time, and put together an amazing team. But he wasn't a great coach. Johnson without that talent was unspectacular. He took over a 9-7 Miami team and after four years got them to ... 9-7. And in the four years Johnson was the Miami coach, the Dolphins won fewer games (36) than they had the previous four years (39). Dallas, however, did just fine without Johnson, going to two more straight NFC Championship games and winning another SB before the dust settled. Johnson may have kept the ride going a little longer than Switzer, but that's not saying much. Just had to be a Cowboy huh Henry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langford78 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I would like to second the nothing of Norv Turner. No matter how terrible he does as a head coack, some team somewhere always seems to want to hire him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Just had to be a Cowboy huh Henry? :doh: yes that was the ONLY reason, his mediocre stint as Dolphins coach had nothing to do with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Just had to be a Cowboy huh Henry? I know I know. I almost didn't say anything because I knew I'd be accused of Dallas-phobia. Just keep in mind that to be overrated you have to be rated very highly to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeownU Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 My vote would have to be Ditka though. I really like the guy, but as a head coach he was most certainly overrated. Anyone with Buddy Ryan as the D coordinator can be made to look great. I can't stand the guy, but as a D-coordinator, I think he was the best there ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Just had to be a Cowboy huh Henry? He made very valid arguments, care to prove him wrong? I mean Barry Switzer won w/ the same talent...Barry "If we score 27 points, that means two touchdowns and three field goals" Switzer. (For those who are a little slow on the uptake - WeownU I am looking in your direction - 2 TD's and 3 FG's equal 23 points.) :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I wouldn't say that a bevy of draft picks "fell" into his lap. He flat out took advantage of someone up in Minnesota, but outside of that, I would agree with most of the rest of your post. He was a great evaluator of talent too. But luck doesn't hurt either. And he most certainly had some. Good call. He put together some serious talent even if you remove the triplets from the equation. And just because you have the picks doesn't mean you know what to do with them. All you have to do is look at the Cowboys drafts between Jimmah and Parcells to prove his drafting prowess. I also think he was a pretty darn good coach. He won everywhere he went except the Dolphins and even there he took them to the playoffs 3 out of his 4 years. I'd say the only thing that makes Jimmy Johnson overrated is the fact that many in the media put him up there as an all-time great coach and I don't see him any higher on the ladder than Mike Shanahan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishOrange15 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I can understand saying Jimmy Johnson was overrated, but Parcells? The 3 years before he took over the Giants they went a combined 17-24. By his second season they went 9-7 and then went 10-6 in his third season before losing to the 1985 Bears team in the playoffs. Then they went to win the Super Bowl in his 4th season in '86. After winning his second Super Bowl, he took a couple of years off to coach the Patriots, who were one of the biggest jokes in the league, especially after the sexual harrassment scandal. The 3 seasons before he took over the Pats, they went a COMBINED 9-29. By his second season, he turned them into a 10-6 team and by his fourth season, brought them to the Super Bowl (Belichick actually served as a defensive backs coach that year, not a D-Coordinator which was taken by Al Groh). Furthermore, Parcells either drafted or brought in the following players and coaches to the Pats: - Drew Bledsoe - Troy Brown - Willie McGinest - Ted Johnson - Teddy Bruschi - Otis Smith - Ty Law - Lawyer Milloy - Adam Vinatieri - Charlie Weiss - Romeo Crennel Then Parcells went to the Jets, a team that went 10-28 the three seasons prior to his arrival and by the first year, he made them a 9-7 team. By year two, he got them to the AFC Championship game before losing to the eventual Super Bowl Champion Broncos. He then left them with the following players: - Curtis Martin - Chad Pennington - Lav Coles - Anthony Becht - Jason Fabini - Kevin Mawae - Randy Thomas - Ryan Young - John Abraham - Shaun Ellis - Marcus Coleman - Aaron Glenn - Ray Mickens - James Farrior - Jason Ferguson He then took over the Dallas Cowboys and took a team that went 15-33 three years prior to his arrival and went 10-6 his first season. Sure, he's had some struggles in Dallas. But if he's "overrated", I'd imagine you are almost impossible to impress. Rich................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 He made very valid arguments, care to prove him wrong? I mean Barry Switzer won w/ the same talent...Barry "If we score 27 points, that means two touchdowns and three field goals" Switzer.(For those who are a little slow on the uptake - WeownU I am looking in your direction - 2 TD's and 3 FG's equal 23 points.) :dallasuck Just bustin his chopps a little Riggo.. lighten up. I guess I can see how you can make the case for JJ. Surely you can understand why I think otherwise though being a Cowboy fan. In his first stint as a head coach he built a dynasty and he was a master motivator. I witnessed him outcoach many greats and his mindgames were sometimes Phil Jacksonesque. He went from 1-15 to 7-9 to 11-5 (divisional playoffs) to Two SB titles followed by a NFC Championship loss to the 49'ers who went on to win it all. He may have caught lightning in a bottle with plenty of draft picks but he still had to make the correct picks. It's hard for me to lable him overrated but I can respect that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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