dallasfanforlife Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 No matter what fan reads it, its the dumbest post ever...you should just go back to your room shut the door and never come out. Yes I am a Cowboy fan, and yes I respect Gibbs and what he has done. He is IMO #5 on the list of greatest ever coaches in the NFL. Coming from a cowgirls fan :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 We will have to agree to disagree, as everyone is going to see coaches and their impact differently. To me Belichick put together a great group of players and was able to find Brady, who will probably go down as one of the best QBs in recent times. He seems to have a great ability to find players, fill holes from injuries, get players to believe in his system of "no starts" and able to game plan extremely well. Winning 3 Super Bowls and being the "it" team for several years is a huge accomplishment and to me I see him as a top 5 coach (maybe more like 5-10 though). I just think that your claim that he was "along for the ride" is a stretch to say the least and is ignoring the complexity of football and the importance of the coach. I am also confused on how you know that if he left, they would have the same record? We have no idea what their record would have been. But as I said before, everyone is going to see coaches differently. I agree about our agreement to disagree (huh?). In closing I just want you to know that I think Belichick is great, but he's not in the same realm as Gibbs, Knoll, Walsh, Landry, and Lombardi. He wasn't along for the ride, he did have an impact, just not nearly as big an impact as Gibbs. Gibbs is the standard by which I judge every coach. Don't take my refusal to put Belichick as a top-ten as an insult to him; it's just a sign of how amazing Gibbs is. You know? It's like (For the sake of argument) Johnny Cash was amazing, but he's sure as hell not the Beatles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Most UNDERrated = Tony Dungy ( His team won that Tampa Bay Super Bowl)Most OVERrated = Jeff Fisher ( McNair and Greg Williams made him look good) Eh, I hate to agree with a Cowboys fan, even halfway, but Dungy is overrated if anything. He's a GREAT man, and yes Tampa Bay was his more than Gruden's, but come on. He constantly gets (one of) the best records in football when it doesn't matter, and then falls apart in the post-season. If you can't win when it counts, then you're not one of the greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallasfanforlife Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 HA! I respect that..........i hate agreeing with a Skins fan as well, so i know what you mean... And Jeff Fisher is a damn good coach, with our without Greg Williams or Steve McNair! Eh, I hate to agree with a Cowboys fan, even halfway, but Dungry is overrated if anything. He's a GREAT man, and yes Tampa Bay was his more than Gruden's, but come on. He constantly gets (one of) the best records in football when it doesn't matter, and then falls apart in the post-season. If you can't win when it counts, then you're not one of the greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 HA! I respect that..........i hate agreeing with a Skins fan as well, so i know what you mean... And let us never speak of it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycanuck Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 from the past: Dan Reeves Tom Flores Mike Ditka George Seifert Barry Switzer todays era: Steve Mariucci Norv Turner Dave Wannstedt Dennis Green Jon Gruden I agree with almost everybody on your list, with the exception of Tom Flores. The guy won two Superbowls (XV and XVIII) the latter being over Joe Gibbs and the game wasn't close. I just don't see how Gibbs is granted Sainthood for winning three, but a guy who I almost never hear in any conversations about great coaches, who has 2, is supposed to be overrated. If anything Flores is underrated. He is the only eligible coach with 2 super bowl victories to not be elected to Canton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 I agree with almost everybody on your list, with the exception of Tom Flores. The guy won two Superbowls (XV and XVIII) the latter being over Joe Gibbs and the game wasn't close. I just don't see how Gibbs is granted Sainthood for winning three, but a guy who I almost never hear in any conversations about great coaches, who has 2, is supposed to be overrated. If anything Flores is underrated. He is the only eligible coach with 2 super bowl victories to not be elected to Canton. I think what keeps Flores from being considered a great coach was his stint with Seattle. Much like Seifert in Carolina it is his albatross. Flores had a winning record in only 6 of his 12 years. He also only made the playoffs 5 times in his 12 years. Conversely Gibbs made the playoffs 8 times in his 12 years with the Skins the first time around. Plus 2 of his 4 misses were with a 10-6 record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycanuck Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 I think what keeps Flores from being considered a great coach was his stint with Seattle. Much like Seifert in Carolina it is his albatross. Flores had a winning record in only 6 of his 12 years. He also only made the playoffs 5 times in his 12 years. Conversely Gibbs made the playoffs 8 times in his 12 years with the Skins the first time around. Plus 2 of his 4 misses were with a 10-6 record. that could be, but every coach has down years. Landry's Cowboys were terrible at times, as were Knoll's Steelers. I think that the only coach who won almost instantly was Walsh. I just think that winning a Super Bowl is so difficult and it is so hard to stay on top in the NFL, that the term overrated shouldn't be applied to anybody who has won more than one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 that could be, but every coach has down years. Landry's Cowboys were terrible at times, as were Knoll's Steelers. I think that the only coach who won almost instantly was Walsh. I just think that winning a Super Bowl is so difficult and it is so hard to stay on top in the NFL, that the term overrated shouldn't be applied to anybody who has won more than one. The difference is that Landry and Noll did it over a much longer period of time and had much, much more overall success. Landry had 20 straight winning seasons. He had a string of 17 playoff appearances in 18 years. Noll was in the playoffs in 11 of 13 years. Flores on the other hand was hit or miss. He won two SBs but only won 1 playoff game other than those two years. Another big difference is that Landry and Noll took over dreadful programs and slowly built them into perrenial winners. Flores took over a team that was already loaded when he replaced Madden. Both Landry and Noll stayed on a little too long but they had much longer peaks. Again I am not saying that Flores wasn't a very good coach but he's just not in the great class in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Tuna....he's lead 4 teams to the playoffs (1st for any coach) but only a few to wins.:gaintsuck:patriotsu:dallasuck:jetssuck: I'm sure being the Cowboys head coach had nothing to do with it. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallasfanforlife Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Best post of the whole thread......I agree with it all. I have the hardest time with saying who the top 5 greatest coaches of all time are, but in that list of five Gibbs is in it. I am no fan of his, but his coaching numbers speak for themselves, The difference is that Landry and Noll did it over a much longer period of time and had much, much more overall success. Landry had 20 straight winning seasons. He had a string of 17 playoff appearances in 18 years. Noll was in the playoffs in 11 of 13 years.Flores on the other hand was hit or miss. He won two SBs but only won 1 playoff game other than those two years. Another big difference is that Landry and Noll took over dreadful programs and slowly built them into perrenial winners. Flores took over a team that was already loaded when he replaced Madden. Both Landry and Noll stayed on a little too long but they had much longer peaks. Again I am not saying that Flores wasn't a very good coach but he's just not in the great class in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melonhead1959 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 If not for Steve Spurrier it would be Bill Parcells. Parcells hasn't done squat since the breakup with Bill Belicheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Jimmy Johnson.He showed up from the college ranks just as a bevy of draft picks fell into his lap, so he was extremely familiar with the upcoming talent at the same time that he was able to go get it. He was the right man at the right place at the right time, and put together an amazing team. But he wasn't a great coach. Johnson without that talent was unspectacular. He took over a 9-7 Miami team and after four years got them to ... 9-7. And in the four years Johnson was the Miami coach, the Dolphins won fewer games (36) than they had the previous four years (39). Dallas, however, did just fine without Johnson, going to two more straight NFC Championship games and winning another SB before the dust settled. Johnson may have kept the ride going a little longer than Switzer, but that's not saying much. Nice. I agree. I also agree with Parcells being overrated. He has coached 4 NFL teams & has whored himself out to the highest bidder, not caring that he is stepping all over his fanbases, while all the while convincing the NEXT fanbase that he will lead them to the Promised Land. He has done little to nothing ever since he left the Giants. Personally, I think Parcells is too long in the tooth at this point & should have gotten out 2 years ago. He will learn that lesson this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 I'm sure being the Cowboys head coach had nothing to do with it. :doh: Well, it sure had something to do with it for me. Yep, I'm a homer. BTW, you know that I have prescription sunglasses that are OFFICIALLY colored "Redskins Burgundy" for a reason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 If not for Steve Spurrier it would be Bill Parcells. Parcells hasn't done squat since the breakup with Bill Belicheck. Niether has Belicheck since the break-up with Weiss/Crennell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_33 Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 I think a Patriots-Redskins Superbowl,would be the best superbowl in 20 years..!Gibbs the legend of Auto racing coming back for some more gridironafter a 12 year layoff... Belichick winning 3 Superbowls in the last 6 years...Tied with Gibbs... I know one thing for sure....Belichick better get a bigger lead than 3 points like he has won in ALL of his superbowls...Cause the redskins Don't like to keep the Superbowl game close...1 way or the other.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I can understand saying Jimmy Johnson was overrated, but Parcells?By his second season, he turned them into a 10-6 team and by his fourth season, brought them to the Super Bowl (Belichick actually served as a defensive backs coach that year, not a D-Coordinator which was taken by Al Groh). Furthermore, Parcells either drafted or brought in the following players and coaches to the Pats: - Drew Bledsoe - Troy Brown - Willie McGinest - Ted Johnson - Teddy Bruschi - Otis Smith - Ty Law - Lawyer Milloy - Adam Vinatieri - Charlie Weiss - Romeo Crennel - Curtis Martin I tried to limit the size of this quote but there's a huge fallacy here. Parcells did not draft a single player to New England. The main reason he left is because they wouldn't defer more personell decisions to him. (Anyone remeber the chef speech?) Is he overated? He hasn't had the same level of success without Belichik as he did when Belichik was there. It simply begs the question, who was the real brains behind the outfit? I still wouldn't put Parcells in the top five, so in that sense he is overated because many people do think of him as a top five all time, and that's just wrong. Another point. He also bailed on the giants, pats, and jets. While he left the jets on good terms and with a full stock of quality players, he didn't do the pats any favors and even stole Martin out from under them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Niether has Belicheck since the break-up with Weiss/Crennell Perhaps you should give him more than 1 year before you pass judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brown_Hornet Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 If you guys had any idea how many fans, on multiple teams websites, are laughing at this thread..... Bwahahahahaha. You kids are priceless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Buddy Ryan.. :laugh: he used to talk so much trash, yet he and his eagles never really could back it up. Even with Randall Cunningham still couldn't win the big games. :eaglesuck Not that Buddy Ryan is ever really ranked high, but even his low ranking is overated. He should have stayed with the Bears as the D-coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGUNDYnGOLD123 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 the specialty tonight: seared tuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Bill BelichickHe single handedly brought down the Browns franchise from being a perrenial playoff team to one of the worst teams of the 90's. This of course led to their move to Baltimore. Most of know his rather awkward decision to release popular Bernie Kosar in favor of "i like to throw interceptions" Vinny Testaverde. Belichick wasn't as big a failure in Cleveland as people make him out to be. The Browns were terrible when Belichick took over an aging team that was good in the 80's. He eventually got them back to the playoffs in '94 and the Browns were in a tie with the Steelers for 1st in their divison in '95 when Art Modell pulled the rug up from under the team and city annoucing the move to Baltimore. Belichick messed up treating Kosar the way he did, because the guy was the home town hero, but the fans cheered when Vinny was getting the Browns in the playoffs. The Browns moved because Modell dug himself into a financial hole with bad business deals and jumped when Baltimore made him an offer. To blame Belchick for that is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Don Shula - far and away in my book. How can you be the greatest when you go 30 years without winning a title? He was a good coach - not great, and DEFINITELY not the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkHog Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I think those that say Parcells are wrong. Two years ago he was the most overrated coach in the NFL but now everyone has seen what a big loser he really is especially after his team quit on him halfway through last season. Back then, 90% of the sports media would have said he was likely the best coach EVER, now nobody thinks that anymore. He is just soiling his legacy in Dallas and proving to everyone that Bilichek was always the real brains to the operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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