The silver lining

[PleaseBlitz]

PleaseBlitz likey ExtremeSkins.

That is all. :thumbsup:

[HOF44]

I just want to echo everyones statements in the thread. I've met some of the Mods at the games this year and enjoyed tailgating with them. To a man they are all great guys doing alot of work for free. (Even Art )

As for the build up to the events of today, it could be seen coming for awhile. Sometimes some of the newer members don't really understand what the site is about. When I see this happening my intial reaction is to try and engage and hopefully help to prod people in the direction I think this board should go.

From my point of view some of the people self banned and banned today could contribute to the site, but still don't quite "get" the place. They forced the mods into a corner. I hope for the ones that come back they can incorporate themselves into ES.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Bottom Line, this is an outstanding site - as excellent in it's field as any site one is likely to find...Responsible and dedicated Mods, educated and opinionated posters, a powerful unifying theme. A few bumps in the road just adds to the fun. ES is the Jam!

[jimskins28]

being more of a lurker than poster I may not have the back and forth banter most of you have had with other members and mods on this site. However I have met Tarhog and his son, spanishomelete, mark the homer, fuji, park city skins and more at the seattle playoffs, plus, huly , pez,blondie, kevin B, skinsfan44, some of the dtc and many others at the san diego game (even though noone probably remembers me, we won the budweiser/skins canopy at the sd game). i love this site and enjoy reading all the posts and goofy **** between all the regulars. i remember the old site and the fun everyone had between each other before the merge. i respect the mods for their continious effort to keep the ship afloat, even I would have dove overboard by now.

Long story short, i enjoy this place even if I am mostly a ghost here. Mods, do your thing, it works for me and many others.

[pvkeeper19]

I think if everyone--on both sides of whatever conflict seems to be going on here--could take a step back and make sure they realize that this is just an internet message board, things would run a lot more smoothly. This whole thing is ridiculous. Why is it that every message board seems to morph into its own little world in which the members feel the moderators are persecuting them? Can't we just talk about the Redskins, instead of arguing about board politics? I mean, for Christ's sake, the shouldn't be any politics. It's supposed to be an entertainment site.

[rictus58]

I mean, for Christ's sake, the shouldn't be any politics. It's supposed to be an entertainment site.

*cough*Chomerics,Sarge,Bufford,AFC*Cough* :laugh:

Football is why I came to this site in the first place.

The intelligent discussions, backed by faith, facts, and personal experiences is why I stayed. That and the Daily Babe.

[Om]

Thanks for the thought and thread, LD.

I know threads like this make some people hesitant to respond. There's whole "I don't want to sound like a suckup" deal on the one hand, and the whole "those sorry *******s are lucky I'm not saying what I REALLY think of them" on the other.

Guess the only thing I'd throw in here is something that has come up in conversations I've had with other staff members over the past few months. It's not so much a complaint as just something we've noticed, and are having to adjust to---that with the massive influx of new posters has come a new attitude. A growing willingness--almost an eagerness in many instances---to openly quesetion/challenge moderating decisions.

And, more subtly but perhaps even more awkward for us, we are seeing some of our unambiguous, clear and direct public appeals thoroughly ignored by many posters. That's something new around here, and I'll admit something that has required us to adjust our thinking a bit.

We're definitely having to adjust on the fly here, and come up with new strategies where some of the older ones have lost effectiveness. No, they won't always work the way they're intended. Some will fail and be scrapped ... others will work far better than we had any reason to hope and become staples.

Bottom line, we've dealt with complaints on ES since day one, but the tone and frequency of them have changed big time. The site was built on certain principles, which anyone who's been paying attention even a little (or even read the confounded Rules, for heaven's sake) should be familiar with, and adhering to those principles brought us to where we are.

We're not going to see them undermined/lost now ... not without one HELL of a fight.

With that ... see you all back on the boards.

[SkinsOrlando]

I love this board, and props to the people who keep it going. Just because we can't see the work they put into it, doesn't mean there's not a hell of alot of work put into it. I dunno, the persistent ****ing by some about the mods agitates me.

Hats off to you guys.

[LD0506]

I know threads like this make some people hesitant to respond. There's whole "I don't want to sound like a suckup" deal on the one hand, and the whole "those sorry *******s are lucky I'm not saying what I REALLY think of them" on the other.

Well, call me naive but I had hoped to try and prod some of those people into posting, into declaring publicly where they stand. I have seen the mods make themselves crystal clear on the point that dissension and diversity are welcomed here, in a "say what you mean and mean what you say" fashion. Perhaps it is just my cynical nature that sees this as indifference on the part of many.

Guess the only thing I'd throw in here is something that has come up in conversations I've had with other staff members over the past few months. It's not so much a complaint as just something we've noticed, and are having to adjust to---that with the massive influx of new posters has come a new attitude. A growing willingness--almost an eagerness in many instances---to openly question/challenge moderating decisions.

And, more subtly but perhaps even more awkward for us, we are seeing some of our unambiguous, clear and direct public appeals thoroughly ignored by many posters. That's something new around here, and I'll admit something that has required us to adjust our thinking a bit.

Again, an issue that transcends viewpoint or opinion, this speaks to the very existence of the board itself.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

This may seem a little overblown in reference to the current hoopla, but the sentiment is much the same. The attitudes you speak of exist because the majority of people refuse to speak up and say otherwise. There are advantages to being a member here, but there are responsibilities as well.

We're not going to see them undermined/lost now ... not without one HELL of a fight.

I only wish I knew what I, or others, might tangibly do to aid in this.

[rictus58]

I only wish I knew what I, or others, might tangibly do to aid in this.

I could be wrong, but I believe the Mods want the general population to help. Much like they did when the Stadium forum was being over run with new members. They have said time and time again that they want board members to help police the site since they can't be everywhere all the time.

[SonnyRules]

Sometime after the merge there was an effort to take ES back from a small percentage of mostly new members who believed that this site was their own personal message board. Many tried, but somehow the battle was lost and these few unfortunates continue to plague the Stadium and Tailgate forums. I'm just pleased that the WAR is not over.

It has been extremely disappointing to watch as a few members efforts to restore some type of effective discourse were effectively turned on and dressed down as "wannabe moderators".

The moderators of this site have an ungodly task. I don't envy their position nor would I ever question their motives or tactics in trying to restore the principals on which this site was founded.

I use to come here often and post regularly. Tried the best I could to support the site with contributions, signing up for all the contests, and giving away free game tickets to fellow Extremers. It was exciting to watch how the site was growing and how dedicated the owners were to continually upgrade ES so that it remained the classiest fan related website on the internet.

Now, I continue to come often; but seldom post.

You see, we were a Redskin community that exchanged ideas regarding our beloved team. We argued with civility, we disagreed honestly, and we had fun doing it. Well, a lot of that fun is now gone. Threads are constantly hijacked, duplicated, and turned into personal battles.

The reason a "silver lining" exists at all is that there is a group of folks who really care about ES; they are dedicated to the core values of ES, and they have a thankless job (working long hours for free, I might add) to deliver the best fan based site ever conceived. Our moderators deserved our full support in eradicating those elements that want to do nothing more than turn this place into their own personal chat room. :2cents:

[Raub]

Bugs and Art have a man-crush on each other that neither is willing to admit. Come on guys, let it out. :dance:

[Om]

Well, call me naive but I had hoped to try and prod some of those people into posting, into declaring publicly where they stand. I have seen the mods make themselves crystal clear on the point that dissension and diversity are welcomed here, in a "say what you mean and mean what you say" fashion. Perhaps it is just my cynical nature that sees this as indifference on the part of many.

Again, an issue that transcends viewpoint or opinion, this speaks to the very existence of the board itself.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

This may seem a little overblown in reference to the current hoopla, but the sentiment is much the same. The attitudes you speak of exist because the majority of people refuse to speak up and say otherwise. There are advantages to being a member here, but there are responsibilities as well.

I only wish I knew what I, or others, might tangibly do to aid in this.

But you already are, friend. This thread stands as evidence.

Sorry if my first paragraph comments came off flip, they weren't intended that way. I was just trying a little levity---the old warm the audience up w/ a joke strategem---and thinking maybe by doing it that way I'd invite a couple of the borderline folks to weigh in. Apparently I didn't succeed. Perhaps I should have stuck to russian roulette and converting the faithful to agnositicm.

More attempted levity there.

Carry on.

[LD0506]

Now, I continue to come often; but seldom post.

You see, we were a Redskin community that exchanged ideas regarding our beloved team. We argued with civility, we disagreed honestly, and we had fun doing it. Well, a lot of that fun is now gone. Threads are constantly hijacked, duplicated, and turned into personal battles.

Then help fer crissakes! There are ways that the member can affect the way the site runs, even in indirect fashion. Bump good threads and drive the nonsense out. Don't post in and feed senseless threads. Use the report feature until a mod tells you to knock it off :laugh: Out of 50,000+ members, if 50 wanted to act in concert they could change the way this place is. Just committing a drive-by reading doesn't help alter anything. I understand why you would say this but do we surrender and lose ES? 'Cuz ultimately, those are the stakes. I've been here roughly as long as you have and this is Thread #6 that I have started. If anyone thinks I am just doing this to be an attention whore then they have to admit that I am p**s poor at it! I think this matters and that we the members can help.

They have said time and time again that they want board members to help police the site since they can't be everywhere all the time.

Fine, issue me a nightstick and a taser :laugh:

[TradeTheBeal!]

Power to the People!

[SonnyRules]

Then help fer crissakes! There are ways that the member can affect the way the site runs, even in indirect fashion. Bump good threads and drive the nonsense out. Don't post in and feed senseless threads. Use the report feature until a mod tells you to knock it off :laugh: Out of 50,000+ members, if 50 wanted to act in concert they could change the way this place is. Just committing a drive-by reading doesn't help alter anything. I understand why you would say this but do we surrender and lose ES? 'Cuz ultimately, those are the stakes. I've been here roughly as long as you have and this is Thread #6 that I have started. If anyone thinks I am just doing this to be an attention whore then they have to admit that I am p**s poor at it! I think this matters and that we the members can help.

Fine, issue me a nightstick and a taser :laugh:

After reading some of the threads this past week, your post was the catalyst that provoked my wanting to enter the fracas once AGAIN!!!...thank you.

Perhaps you don't recall that I did help at one point; along with a bunch of others. In retrospect, it was easy to grow tired of the same B.S., over and over again, with little or no perceived improvement. It seemed at the time, as if the stream of malcontents was simply overrunning the place.

I have since realized that if I didn't speak up now and supported the moderators vocally that I could only point the finger at myself if I didn't like the direction the community was heading.

Hence, here we are....fighting the good fight.

[Beaudry]

A whole thread dedicated to sucking up to the mods? Here is a link to the virtual "Yes Man" so we can save everybody the trouble.

http://www.hereinreality.com/funnystuff/otherstuff/yesman.html

Honestly, who really expected somebody to come badmouth the mods openly in this thread?

[PleaseBlitz]

A whole thread dedicated to sucking up to the mods? Here is a link to the virtual "Yes Man" so we can save everybody the trouble.

http://www.hereinreality.com/funnystuff/otherstuff/yesman.html

Honestly, who really expected somebody to come badmouth the mods openly in this thread?

Once again, Beaudry misses the point entirely. :slap:

[LD0506]

A whole thread dedicated to sucking up to the mods? Here is a link to the virtual "Yes Man" so we can save everybody the trouble.

http://www.hereinreality.com/funnystuff/otherstuff/yesman.html

Honestly, who really expected somebody to come badmouth the mods openly in this thread?

Some other time this might be amusing ("might" being the operative word here) but today? Ehhhhhhh, not so much.

For the crayon on colored paper crowd......

1. Stupid posts = bad

2. Mindless drivel = bad

3. Post padding :pooh: = bad

4. Abusing the mods = bad

ES+1+2+3+4= worse

ES-1-2-3-4= better

Hope this helps :thumbsup:

[SonnyRules]

It's painful to see the lack of responses to this thread by a lot of folks around here that I admire. I won't call you out by name, but you do know who you are. Perhaps it might be redundant to post your thoughts here, but I personally feel we as the ExtremeSkins members need to show our support for the Moderators and take back our community. :2cents:

[unsonny]

My DSL has been bricked for the past 4 days……not sure what I missed, sounds like a lot.......

Total respect for this website and its mods. Having an active username and being able to post here is a privilege not a right…..…..I lurk and harvest from many message boards around the internets, this is by far the most consistently and fairly moderated I have seen…..every member here should be thankful to have a place like this to post

.....….I leave you with this

[hu-bison-skinsfan]

I probably don't post in enough threads for my opinion to matter but (to agree with some of the posts that I have seen so far) these mods are incredibly fair -- I think I've expressed this sentiment in the past as a reason that I really like this site. And, yes, they are also lenient...I'm downright frightened by some of the stuff that I see on here. I always wonder whether this board scares away some 'lurkers' who don't have the advantage of knowing the context or the history of certain threads.

[Destino]

You want my thoughts on the mods? K.

I think that for the most part they do an amazing job.

This site and it's success, particularly the fact that it became the official skins forum, is proof of the amazing job they have done. I think that they keep the balance between allowing passionate debate and not allowing flame wars better then any forum I've seen.

Having said that I think sometimes some go out of their way to rudely remind folks who is in charge. The I-want-to-ban-x-amount-of-people statements or any of the kind are a bit over the top IMO. There is a fine line between letting people know who is in charge and flaunting it. Having been in charge of forums before, though admittedly none near the size of this one, I know the fun of flaunting it is hard to pass up so I certainly don't blame them for it. I also have experienced a tiny fraction of the head aches mods here must deal with. I mention it only because this thread asked for an opinion on the recent whining about mods.

Also it should be noted that Art has done much to draw criticism to himself. I don't claim he has broken any rules, he knows them better then I do, which he would waste no time in reminding anyone that dares to even imply otherwise. He might even call you an idiot a few times while doing so and thus my point.

Please don't think that I dislike the mods or their methods. I think they do a fine job at being fair and in fact, Art, despite the above-mentioned issues, is most likely one of the few among them that fights for heated debates to be tolerated at all. I thank him and the rest that choose to err on the side of too much tolerance I think it separates this place from many others. If I had to give the mod team a rating on ES I’d give them a 9/10. Not perfect because they are human, but as close to it as I’ve seen on these crazy crazy internets.

Also it's worth noting that some of the best posts on this forum are from the mods themselves. I don't know their backgrounds but they write well and some of them are very funny when they want to be. Om comes immediately to mind.

I’d like to end on this note – don’t ban me.

Thanks.

[Art]

Destino,

It would probably help you to know it is very rare I'm the actual object of a mod who does one thing yet punishes another for the same thing, because, I utilize actual punishment less than anyone here. I believe we're an Extreme debating site. I started here when Die Hard asked me using the phrase, "I love conflict."

Every day I decide to engage a post in this forum, new membership requests spike, the readership is higher, people argue, and in the history of such engagements, over five years, not a single person has ever been banned or had any other action taken against them for an opposing view. It's never Art who brings any criticism on because Art never asks, nor expects, you to do anything different than he does .

There's nothing wrong with someone calling you an idiot here. That's not a violation of the rules. Some people simply have gotten to the point they don't get what the rule against personal attacks meaning. We used "attack" specifically so we could never be said to limit personal insults. We know there's a difference in scale between the two. Calling someone a "bonehead" is not a personal attack and is hardly a personal insult.

You can be highly insulting within a post to another, if you largely stick within the content and context of the debate, and you avoid personalizing it beyond the debate. Meaning, "After reading that, I can't help but think the school system in your area must be a complete failure," is ok, where, "Your momma licks my balls," is not. Tis easy.

Unfortunately a great portion of the community has decided THEY know what a violation of that rule means and get upset when they don't see THEIR defintion of it enforced the way they want it to be. Or, the call out rule where if someone brings up something someone else said on the board to make them defend it, people say that's a call out thread. By the rules that's precisely NOT a call out thread. That's a debate.

Yet, I can't tell you how many times I see people tell others, "Man, that's a call out thread." There have been about 10 call out threads on this board EVER. A call out thread is not asking someone to support words they've previously said on the board. It's not asking the mods about methods to improve the boards.

The reason we hammer at the theme we know the rules where others do not is because, clearly, others do not.

[rictus58]

Art,

so what constitutes a call-out thread? Is it only when it involves a personal matter?