WT - Patten welcomes stiff competition

[flexxskins]

What I think you're missing TD, is that I don't believe that EITHER of them has any talent. Patten was a #3/#4 WR in a mediocre offensive system in New England. A system that was based on not making mistakes instead of dominating opposing defenses. Patten started for one reason.... The outragous amount of money the Redskins paid him. I'm still wondering what sort of photos Patten has of Snyder & Coach Gibbs that he got that contract. It's nowhere near Patten's actual value as a player. That, unfortunately, is also the reason he'll still be here this season.

So then what you are saying is that you are a better judge of talent than the coaches?

Your ignorance shines on many different levels, but let me just comment on the one about J.Campbell. How the hell could he end up on your list of hate and he hasn't even played yet? :doh:

BTW, I already know that the Campbell quote isn't mentioned in the quote above. He is mentioned in a earlier idiotic post of yours.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The Patriots are the grand model of everything that is WRONG with the NFL since the creation of the salary cap system in 1994. They are the prime model of how to sell your soul to Paul Tagliabue and Co. for a Super Bowl title that you don't deserve. David Patten is a prime example of that whole system. As is Christian "the LB's caught more TD passes in New England than I did" Fauria.

Actually it's what Campbell HASN'T done.... play a single snap of an NFL regular season game. We traded away picks to move up and select him in the latter half of the First Round and he couldn't even beat out a has-been and a never-was for the starting QB position. If he doesn't come in a beat Brunell out to start this year, he's worthless in my mind.

OK, I guess I see where your ire is coming from, but I think it's directed at the wrong level of the NFL. You're going to blame 2 NFL players who have average talent for signing contracts with an NFL team that happened to be fortunate enough to win 3 Super Bowls. Additionally, you're going to hate another NFL player who had absolutely no control over who drafted him (or what that team did to draft him) or how much playing time he gets. Makes no sense to me.

As for your NE hatred...when the landscape of the league changes, it's up to the teams to change with them. They can only operate within the NFL that they are in. These NE teams are not much different than the 1982 or 1987 Redskin teams that won Super Bowls.

Lastly, I can understand not liking players on the Redskins, but to root against them when you're a Redskin fans seems petty to me.

[AllAboutSkins08]

The Patriots are the grand model of everything that is WRONG with the NFL since the creation of the salary cap system in 1994. They are the prime model of how to sell your soul to Paul Tagliabue and Co. for a Super Bowl title that you don't deserve. David Patten is a prime example of that whole system. As is Christian "the LB's caught more TD passes in New England than I did" Fauria.

put down the issues of The National Enquirer and stop being so paranoid. look, maybe the patriots shouldn't have deserved those SBs. maybe they did. but regardless, you need to let that go and stop hating them so much that you overlook the players and who they really are. for God's sake, you can't even prove you alligations and you're using you lack of facts and concrete evidence to judge these players. like i said before, i hate the patriots too, but i acknowledge that i have no factual basis for my hatred.

Actually it's what Campbell HASN'T done.... play a single snap of an NFL regular season game. We traded away picks to move up and select him in the latter half of the First Round and he couldn't even beat out a has-been and a never-was for the starting QB position. If he doesn't come in a beat Brunell out to start this year, he's worthless in my mind.

woah....woah. so it's JCs fault that the staff haven't put him in. for all we know, he could be a man-beast and a lot better than brunell. he could be a lot better physically, but i don't expect a QB to come out of the draft and start. by far the hardest position to play in the NFL is QB and JC is gonna have to sit down and learn the ropes and get his mental ability up to match his physical ability. skill and talent are nothing without wisdom so take a chill pill and stop judging people with no facts.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

so an offensive system that stresses not making mistakes is a bad thing?? :doh: i mean why isn't that something that you'd want to base your offense on?

An offensive system that's MAIN PURPOSE is not making mistakes is a bad thing. The Patriots offense has never been designed to go out there and light up the scoreboard. It's designed to take advantage of the other team's mistakes and not make any of it's own. It's the offensive version of the Prevent Defense theory. I want an offense based on beating the living **** out of our opponents. One that will be FEARED. That can score from any point on the field on any play in any situation. That's definitely not the philosophy that the Patriots have used in the past.

i'm pretty sure our offense last year in no means dominated opposing defenses. but we made very little mistakes and that helped us win games.

No. It helped us "Not Lose" games. Unfortunately it appears that the Redskins have been buying into the Patriots style of play for the last several years. I am really hoping I'm wrong, because if it is true, I won't be able to root for the Redskins anymore.

try to be a little more objective once in a while. cause i'm sure if the same could be said about the redskins (which it could be of last season) that you wouldn't look at it the same way.

Acutally, no I wouldn't be any happier about it. Remember that I'm the guy who started the "Fire Joe Gibbs" thread after we lost to Seattle in the playoffs. Largely becauce Gibbs' offense in the playoffs (and through much of the regular season) WAS based on that same concept as the Patriots have used.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The last thing that I'll chime in about the Pats debate is this:

Mass_Skins_Fan, you say that a team like NE is everything that is wrong with the league. They are solid or good at every position and have very good depth. That is a better team than one built like Indy who has 4 or 5 stars and then doo doo backing them up. To me, unspectacular but deep and consistent is much more successful in the NFL than potentially explosive but inconsistent. In the salary cap era, you can only have one or the other unless you get extremely lucky.

[B.A.M.F.]

Actually it's what Campbell HASN'T done.... play a single snap of an NFL regular season game. We traded away picks to move up and select him in the latter half of the First Round and he couldn't even beat out a has-been and a never-was for the starting QB position. If he doesn't come in a beat Brunell out to start this year, he's worthless in my mind.

Was your firstborn child included in that trade for Campbell?

Just wondering.:laugh:

[Mass_SkinsFan]

OK, I guess I see where your ire is coming from, but I think it's directed at the wrong level of the NFL. You're going to blame 2 NFL players who have average talent for signing contracts with an NFL team that happened to be fortunate enough to win 3 Super Bowls. Additionally, you're going to hate another NFL player who had absolutely no control over who drafted him (or what that team did to draft him) or how much playing time he gets. Makes no sense to me.

Patten and Fauria sold their souls when they signed those contracts so far as I am concerned. When they put the jersey on for the first time they lost any chance of ever getting their souls back in my mind.

On the Campbell thing, I only have a couple words to say.... John Elway & Eli Manning. If Campbell couldn't come in, start immediately and win, then why the hell did we waste the draft pick on him in the first place?

As for your NE hatred...when the landscape of the league changes, it's up to the teams to change with them. They can only operate within the NFL that they are in.

Sorry, that arguement isn't going to work on me. The ownership of the Washington Redskins voted to institute this hell-spawned system in 1994 and Dan Snyder voted to extend it last year. The team is TOTALLY culpable for the horrific form of football the NFL is now interested in promoting. IF the Redskins ownership had voted against the deal in 1994 and it's extension this past year, you MIGHT have an arguement. They didn't.

I'd rather see the Redskins lose every game while trying to build a GREAT team like 1991 than to see them win a Lombardi every year with players like David Patten and Christian Fauria, who simply prove to me that the Redskins have sold their souls and bought into Paul Tagliabue's demonic experiment.

Lastly, I can understand not liking players on the Redskins, but to root against them when you're a Redskin fans seems petty to me.

Sorry. There are certain things that I hold a higher allegiance to than even the Washington Redskins. My personal philosophies of life and conscience are two of them. The system the NFL now imposes on the teams that want to win championships is against both my philosophy and conscience.

[MumboSauce]

I don't see how one can be the fan of a team and hate/root against players on your team...how well/bad some of those players play have some factor in the success of your team.

While I couldn't stand Jeff George..and particularly loathed Deion Sanders...they were on the team, and started...to wish them poor play is to some degree wishing your team some modicum of failure.

Mass you make this a tad too personal...and your personal hatred clearly clouds sound reasoning and judgement. How about we let the coaches of the team you root for determine who is a skin and who isn't..and who is good enough to do what, and how much playing time they get. It's very possible you're right..and Patten will be out of here..but if he gets and opportunity and contributes in a way that helps this teams' success, ie playoffs/superbowl, how can you be against the good of the team as a whole.

[Clutch03]

Players are actually selling their souls??!?! I guess you really can buy anything on E-Bay :laugh:

[AllAboutSkins08]

An offensive system that's MAIN PURPOSE is not making mistakes is a bad thing. The Patriots offense has never been designed to go out there and light up the scoreboard. It's designed to take advantage of the other team's mistakes and not make any of it's own. It's the offensive version of the Prevent Defense theory. I want an offense based on beating the living **** out of our opponents. One that will be FEARED. That can score from any point on the field on any play in any situation. That's definitely not the philosophy that the Patriots have used in the past.

look, i don't know if it was the patriots main purpose or not, but you can only use the resources you have. i don't think the patriots had what they needed to be, in your words, an offense based on beating the living **** out of opponents. what they did do was play smart, controlled football with the solid players they had and got wins because of it. i can obviously see that your position on this issue is permanent and nothing i or anyone will say can change that, and i doubt i will ever understand your view and where you're coming from. i just seriously worry about how you see things.

[AllAboutSkins08]

To me, unspectacular but deep and consistent is much more successful in the NFL than potentially explosive but inconsistent.

a quote to live by. good words TD. :applause:

[AllAboutSkins08]

On the Campbell thing, I only have a couple words to say.... John Elway & Eli Manning. If Campbell couldn't come in, start immediately and win, then why the hell did we waste the draft pick on him in the first place?

patience young grasshopper. you're right, elway and manning came in a showed they could start right away and lead their teams. but with all the QBs that have ever been drafted in the first round, how many of them started right away, or even in their second year? not many. because it's just not likely that a player from college can mentally transition to the NFL that quickly. and it's unrealistic to think that you can judge that before you draft someone. our staff did the best the could to draft someone who could be our future QB. maybe you want your earnings right now and can't wait. a lot of us can't. but you can't throw someone like him in there and feed him to the dogs. you come here and try to predict what QB out of college is gonna start his first year and SUCCEED in this league and lets see how easy you think that job is. just give JC some time, stop throwing tantrums like a little spoiled brat, and trust the staff we have.

[CoachingWinsChampionships]

Patten and Fauria sold their souls when they signed those contracts so far as I am concerned. When they put the jersey on for the first time they lost any chance of ever getting their souls back in my mind.

Sorry, that arguement isn't going to work on me. The ownership of the Washington Redskins voted to institute this hell-spawned system in 1994 and Dan Snyder voted to extend it last year. The team is TOTALLY culpable for the horrific form of football the NFL is now interested in promoting. IF the Redskins ownership had voted against the deal in 1994 and it's extension this past year, you MIGHT have an arguement. They didn't.

I'd rather see the Redskins lose every game while trying to build a GREAT team like 1991 than to see them win a Lombardi every year with players like David Patten and Christian Fauria, who simply prove to me that the Redskins have sold their souls and bought into Paul Tagliabue's demonic experiment.

Sorry. There are certain things that I hold a higher allegiance to than even the Washington Redskins. My personal philosophies of life and conscience are two of them. The system the NFL now imposes on the teams that want to win championships is against both my philosophy and conscience.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm a bit slow, but could you explain exactly what about the system the NFL uses is irking you. I'm getting the vibe that you're talking about the quasi-communistic system of parity, but could you confirm that and clearly state exactly what angers you so? Or are you saying that the Patriots cheated the system by getting players to exchange more money for a much better shot at the Lombardi trophy? Obviously the two are closely related, but are you angrier at the Patriots or the NFL? I think there is something else at play here, but I can't put my finger on it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Mass_Skins_Fan,

You're a smart guy...no doubt about that. Why don't you explain to me why you still follow a team and a league that fly in the face of what your personal beliefs are (and have been doing so for over a decade)?

The fact of the matter is, the NFL is made up of football coaches and players who are only trying to win within the scope of the rules laid out by the NFL. To hold so much hatred or anger toward any one of them seems silly to me. If everything bothers you so much, be a baseball fan.

If you ask me, I don't think you have too much objection to the system or the players, but you like to make splashes on Extremeskins. Otherwise, why would someone who feels the way you say you do spend any time at all on a message board for an NFL team?

[flexxskins]

Mass_Skins_Fan,

You're a smart guy...no doubt about that. Why don't you explain to me why you still follow a team and a league that fly in the face of what your personal beliefs are (and have been doing so for over a decade)?

The fact of the matter is, the NFL is made up of football coaches and players who are only trying to win within the scope of the rules laid out by the NFL. To hold so much hatred or anger toward any one of them seems silly to me. If everything bothers you so much, be a baseball fan.

If you ask me, I don't think you have too much objection to the system or the players, but you like to make splashes on Extremeskins. Otherwise, why would someone who feels the way you say you do spend any time at all on a message board for an NFL team?

:applause: Bravo.

[MrSilverMaC]

No. It helped us "Not Lose" games. Unfortunately it appears that the Redskins have been buying into the Patriots style of play for the last several years. I am really hoping I'm wrong, because if it is true, I won't be able to root for the Redskins anymore.

After reading your ranting ignorant posts in this thread one by one, I personally wish you had already reached this threshold, done the rest of us a favor, and stopped being a fan of the Skins long ago.

Get a f'ing clue. :doh:

[dfbovey]

On the Campbell thing, I only have a couple words to say.... John Elway & Eli Manning. If Campbell couldn't come in, start immediately and win, then why the hell did we waste the draft pick on him in the first place?

How about the many pro bowl QBs who sat out their 1st year in the league learning behind solid veterans?

Duante Culpepper?

Steve McNair?

Chad Pennington?

Carson Palmer?

The list could go on.

Gibbs has a proven philosophy when it comes to grooming young QBs and he manages to have playoff teams while doing it. Let the young guy learn behind a veteran. Campbell will be ready to play when the time comes and the Redskins won't miss a beat or struggle due to starting a rookie at the most important position on the field.

Also, how many games did Elway win in his rookie season? Eli Manning? Rookie QBs rarely come in and win games. Guys like Big Ben and Dan Marino being exceptions to the norm.

[XxSpearheadxX]

It is weird to hear a career journeyman WR refer to himself in the third-person that often, but I like hearing that he's willing to play any role asked of him.

I disagree with Mass_Skins_Fan for the most part regarding his talent. The fact is, if Taylor Jacobs was better than "DP" then he'd have started last year either right of the bat or certainly after week 2 when Patten got hurt.

I agree that having WRs who play special teams is much more efficient but we'll have Thrash and Randle-El at a minimum who do that. I'd feel much more comfortable having Patten as our 4th WR than having Jacobs...and I actually really LIKE Jacobs.

Though I don't by any means agree whole heartedly with MassSkins fan, I haven't been overly impressed by DP. Taylor Jacobs has shown just as much to me in his "good" years if you can call them that. Plus TJ is young and has infinitely more upside, plus TJ was hurt all through training camp and up until 2 weeks before his start against the raiders. Like couldn't run hurt. Remember when Carlos got burned in preseason because he had a broken ankle for months and he was out of shape? That's essentially what happened to TJ. I don't particularly expect anything out of either of them. And having three starting recievers like Tana, B-lloyd and ARE is more than most teams could hope for, let alone a 24 year old 2nd round pick of a project on the bench.

Hey, maybe "DP" will step up. The coaches certainly weren't sold on him.

[XxSpearheadxX]

Actually it's what Campbell HASN'T done.... play a single snap of an NFL regular season game. We traded away picks to move up and select him in the latter half of the First Round and he couldn't even beat out a has-been and a never-was for the starting QB position. If he doesn't come in a beat Brunell out to start this year, he's worthless in my mind.

You mean Brunell? The guy with the third best QB rating in the NFC last year?

2 time NFL QB of the week last year brunell? Hey I want Cambell to progress too, but if you say you've been watching football for as long as you have I would hope you know more about the difference between value potential and winning this week.

[dfbovey]

Taylor Jacobs has shown absolutely nothing. Surprised he hasn't been cut considering who we signed in the offseason. He'll have a hard time beating out Thrash or Patten to stay on the roster. He's more than likely the odd man out unless he shines on special teams.

[XxSpearheadxX]

Taylor Jacobs has shown absolutely nothing. Surprised he hasn't been cut considering who we signed in the offseason. He'll have a hard time beating out Thrash or Patten to stay on the roster. He's more than likely the odd man out unless he shines on special teams.

No you are wrong. He has shown a few things good and bad:

1) He is tall, strong and fast. He can catch the ball. He has an advanced feel for route running. At 23 He has massive upside.

2) He is emotionally sensitive and immature. He needs to grow up. He just turned 24. Its time for that now.

3) He is a great special teams player who has made at least one game changing special teams blocked kick in the last 2 years.

4) He has had a series of "freak" injuries, however, more than enough to garner him the glass jaw rep. It is time for him to train hard at the things he can to decrease that risk of injury, and pray that it doesn't happen again.

5) Teammates in the NFL don't say things like, "He is by far the most difficult reciever to cover in practice" on a team with Santana moss unless they mean it. Compare what they have said with what they say about JC, different stories. Santana thinks Taylor is ready, however insinuiates that JC is not quite there yet. Springs, Rogers and Sean T. all have said similar things. They play foot ball for a living.

All of those factors when added and subtracted together is enough for me to let a 24 year old 2nd round draft pick who has had some injury problems the last year, and before that had such wonderful High Priced talent in front of him as Rod and Lav "the toe" coles. Now maybe he gets it right. Or not. But there is no way I see him getting cut. Then again, I don't see what the coaches do, so who knows :laugh:

[sparkosaurus]

Let me start my reply with this tidbit of info that I think many of you already know: David Patten, like Christian Fauria, could cure cancer & win us a Super Bowl; and I'd still think he was a worthless sack of crap. They lost their souls by signing a contract with the Patriots and that's a crime for which there's no pardon in my book. I will root for both of them to fail no matter WHAT uniform they are wearing.

Well it's nice to hear that you're letting logic play a role in your feelings here...after all, mass gereralizations and blatant stereotypes are a great way to make your point.

I hate the Cowboys as much as anyone, but just because someone signs with them at SOME POINT IN THEIR CAREER doesn't mean I root against them...hell, in your mind if they had come to the realization that they need REDEMPTION by leaving, that's not good enough for you, huh? I certainly hope you don't have children...

Jeez...take a xanax...

[swaroopm]

That's alright. I never realized that David Patten was anything other than a #3 or #4 reciever on a very mediocre NE Patriots team and never understood why ANYONE in the Redskins organization thought that he could ever be anything more than that with us.

Now that we've (theoretically) gotten two receivers to fill the #2 and #3 roles in the offense, I'm not sure why Patten is even still here. Especially if he isn't a special teams ace. I would guess it's the #%#$%^$^$ Salary Cap, but that's just my personal thought on the issue.

This thread is crazy. Anyway I thought the Redskins picked up Patten and Moss because they were the two top (available?) guys in the NFL in 2004 in yards per catch. We couldn't get the ball downfield in 2004 so we picked up guys for 2005 who could get the ball downfield. I thought Patten looked a step slow in 2005 but I think he will be productive in 2006 as the 3rd/4th WR for the Redskins.

[jimster]

this is a Pittman-like thread.

[dfbovey]

No you are wrong. He has shown a few things good and bad:

1) He is tall, strong and fast. He can catch the ball. He has an advanced feel for route running. At 23 He has massive upside.

2) He is emotionally sensitive and immature. He needs to grow up. He just turned 24. Its time for that now.

3) He is a great special teams player who has made at least one game changing special teams blocked kick in the last 2 years.

4) He has had a series of "freak" injuries, however, more than enough to garner him the glass jaw rep. It is time for him to train hard at the things he can to decrease that risk of injury, and pray that it doesn't happen again.

5) Teammates in the NFL don't say things like, "He is by far the most difficult reciever to cover in practice" on a team with Santana moss unless they mean it. Compare what they have said with what they say about JC, different stories. Santana thinks Taylor is ready, however insinuiates that JC is not quite there yet. Springs, Rogers and Sean T. all have said similar things. They play foot ball for a living.

So really, all he's proven is that he's young, immature, injury prone and shows a little promise in practice... but never in game situations. So far, he's a bust.