WT - Patten welcomes stiff competition

[Mass_SkinsFan]

And this happens when - at 11:30 remaining in the first quarter?

Sometimes it doesn't even take THAT long.

Yes, I can choose to ignore you as you said, or I can chose to share with you that I find your comments so far afield that they strain reason.

Which is fine. Obviously you have a lot more free time to waste than I do.

Class is for winners? Winners don't wish injury on folks. Instead they desire their competition to be at their very best so that they have a real challenge and a more satisfying win when earned.

Winners understand that WINNING is the only thing that matters and doing whatever is necessary to WIN is what the game is all about.

Life is unfair I know - but without the losing there would be no winning.

Last season was so satisfying because we turned the corner and began to win again, after a lot of losing. How satisfied would we had been after last season if we went to the playoffs every year?

The game is great because at its core it is just like life. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But what they say is true - at the end of the day what matters is how you played the game.

Sorry, but this line of reasoning has never made ANY sense to me. I live by an "If you can't win, don't play" philosophy. This idea that competition, or trying, or "how you played the game" was the important thing always struck me as having been written by someone who never won anything. Believe me, I did more than my share of losing at athletic and competitive endevours as a child. That's largely why I've learned that I'd rather not be involved than to lose.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Mass, would the following statement be correct than?

You really couldn't care less if the Redskins won the superbowl if they don't do it in a explosive fashion?

I would care, but I would not see it as that great of an accomplishment. You are correct in the understanding that I do not see the Winning as of much interest unless Dominance and Greatness are attached to it as well.

You seem to be looking for something to pick you up and carry you onto cloud 9. It's a sports team. I would think you'd want to see them do well even if its not scoring 50 pts a game.

The problem is that I don't see them as doing well if they're not being Dominant and Great. Without those two things they're simply being less bad than their opponents.

And to call the Redskins losers now seems a bit harsh. All teams go through periods of time where they are not performing at their peak. To me it seems as though we are coming out of the valley and heading towards the peak. That, I would think, would make most fans happy. But as you said yourself, your not most fans.

As we've both agreed, I'm not most fans. I have a hard time accepting that it takes nearly 15 years to go through that trough or that the valley needs to be anywhere near as deep as it was.

[Fury010]

I read on another board that the headline should have read,

"Stiff Welcomes Competition"

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I never said you weren't a fan, but that I know of others who are of the same type as yourself. It's unfortunate that people can't except others who differ from how they feel a team should be supported. With as you say, nowhere near mainstreem views, being doubted is unavoidable and causing a natural tension. Though, it shouldn't irk you. It's your chosen stance, and know as well as I do what comes with it.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but the last line of one of your previous posts kind of left me with the feeling that you did believe I wasn't a fan. Thanks for clearing it up.

What irks me is that there is an "ignore" feature here on ES that I think people need to make more use of. Those people here who truly believe that I am not a fan, or who don't want to accept that I actually believe the things I say really ought to look into using the feature. I've used it on another site to great success and a large reduction in the amount of stress posting there had been causing me.

I agree that if you didn't post hot button issues, there indeed would be little to discuss. Heated debate isn't a bad thing, and that's what a message board is all about. Point and counter point so to speak. Your not the first to post a comment about wanting to see a player injured, and the results were the same for those people. So again, your not alone in your stance, but must expect to catch heat when so far outside the lines.

Heated DISCUSSION isn't a bad thing. Debate is not something I really have an interest in. I don't try to change anyone's mind on anything. I just put my POV out there and people can accept or decry it as they see fit.

On the injury thing.... I've discussed it in the past. My beliefs on that topic are well known around here. Or at least I had believed that they were. Again, if people don't want to read it, they don't have to. Just use the ignore feature.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I'm sick and tired of people putting Patten down. The man was injured in week2 and had a bad season by everyone's standards. He was hurt and frustrated and made one stupid comment and everyone wants to hang him out to dry. You have not seen the last of this man. He will play very well for us for a number of years to come.

Great article

[Madman_Mike]

I would care, but I would not see it as that great of an accomplishment. You are correct in the understanding that I do not see the Winning as of much interest unless Dominance and Greatness are attached to it as well.

The problem is that I don't see them as doing well if they're not being Dominant and Great. Without those two things they're simply being less bad than their opponents.

So tell me, are you dominant and great at everything you do in life? How about your Medieval thing you do? Dominant and Great at that? If not, why bother? And if not, do you hate yourself?

If I were a fan of Medieval sword fighting would it be cool with you if I hoped you wer injured because you are not the greatest sword fighter and I would rather see somone else fight in your place?

Dude, you have issues. Iv'e heard you say that physicaly you are an ugly man but I'm here to tell you, your face is not nearly as ugly as your your thoughts. God or fate or whatever you believe in has made one thing permanent. The other is up to you.

:2cents:

[Matt [Redskins Fan]]

Bros call me D.P., short for Donkey Puncher.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

So tell me, are you dominant and great at everything you do in life? How about your Medieval thing you do? Dominant and Great at that? If not, why bother? And if not, do you hate yourself?

No I'm not dominant or great at competitive activities. Which is why I tend to avoid them like all three variants of the plague. No men's league softball. No charity basketball games. Not even the competitive pistol shooting that I used to be involved in. Solely BECAUSE I am not good enough to live up to my standards in those things.

The medieval thing I do is kind of an anomoly. I don't see it as competitive for some reason. Maybe because I don't fight in tournaments, and prefer melees (battles), where my just above average skills get hidden a little better than on the tourney field. I do fight with probably the single most dominant army in the knowne world (the Great Northern Army), but that's about as close as it gets for me.

I have started and quit any number of competitive things in my life. Youth soccer, little league, chess club, competitive shooting, etc... when I realized that I would never be able to live up to my own expectations for my abilities.

If I were a fan of Medieval sword fighting would it be cool with you if I hoped you wer injured because you are not the greatest sword fighter and I would rather see somone else fight in your place?

It wouldn't bother me at all, personally. I got involved with heavy list fighting knowing that it's a dangerous activity. I've been hurt doing it before. I'll be hurt doing it again. I assume that liability every time I strap on my helm and pick up a weapon.

Dude, you have issues. Iv'e heard you say that physicaly you are an ugly man but I'm here to tell you, your face is not nearly as ugly as your your thoughts. God or fate or whatever you believe in has made one thing permanent. The other is up to you.

I am what I am, Mike. That isn't going to change.

[bigyim]

Sorry. There are certain things that I hold a higher allegiance to than even the Washington Redskins. My personal philosophies of life and conscience are two of them. The system the NFL now imposes on the teams that want to win championships is against both my philosophy and conscience.

...doesn't sound like you need a whole lot of conscience to call people souless and worthless sacks of crap just because you have bias against their employer...whatever you think about the Patriots, their indecency doesn't rise to the level of indecencies readily apparent in the world. There are way too many important issues to tackle to get twisted over such a non-issue.

I'd rather see the Redskins lose every game while trying to build a GREAT team like 1991 than to see them win a Lombardi every year with players like David Patten and Christian Fauria, who simply prove to me that the Redskins have sold their souls and bought into Paul Tagliabue's demonic experiment.

.

Better yet, we can just have the NFL give the Skins the trophy every year. If you're interested in domination & humiliation, you obviously dont need to watch competition.

Me, I pick a team to root for them to win, instead of putting parameters on how dominating they win in order for me to enoy watching a game. I guess you need something in your life to get excised over, however.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

...whatever you think about the Patriots, their indecency doesn't rise to the level of indecencies readily apparent in the world. There are way too many important issues to tackle to get twisted over such a non-issue.

We will have to disagree on that. Personally, I believe that EVERY form of Socialism in the world needs to be stamped out quickly, brutally, and permanently. I won't get into it much more than that, since that's a discussion better reserved for The Tailgate section of ES.

...Better yet, we can just have the NFL give the Skins the trophy every year. If you're interested in domination & humiliation, you obviously dont need to watch competition.

I've never been in favor of competition. It's Winning that I have an interest in. Of course by Winning I mean going out and just flat out dominating and humiliating the opponent. Making sure the enemy doesn't want to be there anymore.

...Me, I pick a team to root for them to win, instead of putting parameters on how dominating they win in order for me to enoy watching a game. I guess you need something in your life to get excised over, however.

For me the parameters appeared largely after the NFL stopped having any interest in true Greatness and Dominance in 1994 and decided to start rewarding mediocrity via the concept of parity between teams.

As for needing something to get excised over.... not really. There are more than a few things I get my blood boiling over; socially, politically and athletically. Which is a large part of why I expect to have a massive, fatal heart attack before I'm fifty.

[TheLongshot]

What irks me is that there is an "ignore" feature here on ES that I think people need to make more use of. Those people here who truly believe that I am not a fan, or who don't want to accept that I actually believe the things I say really ought to look into using the feature. I've used it on another site to great success and a large reduction in the amount of stress posting there had been causing me.

Sounds like good advice from the man himself.

Really, after arguing with him before on this subject, I've decided he has his own twisted views on these things, and nothing I say is going to change that.

If he wants to believe that NE is a terrible team, despite all the rings they have, so be it. If he never wants to see the joy in a hard fought victory, and enjoy only the things that come easy, so be it.

Really, after those things, I really don't think he has anything worthwhile to say and is deserving of ignoring.

Jason

[XxSpearheadxX]

So really, all he's proven is that he's young, immature, injury prone and shows a little promise in practice... but never in game situations. So far, he's a bust.

Busts are 29, 30, 31 years old. There are recievers who were drafted in this draft who are 24 years old.

Injuries happen. You don't cut potential. It is always smart to keep potential as depth. Especially when you are as stacked at WR as we are.

I find it amusing that some people want Patten to stick around, a 33 year old WR who couldn't even make the NFL until he was 28 years old, and cut a kid oozing potential when we don't even need him to start yet who is 24 years old!?! Just let him run out his contract, this is his last year.

[XxSpearheadxX]

I'm sick and tired of people putting Patten down. The man was injured in week2 and had a bad season by everyone's standards. He was hurt and frustrated and made one stupid comment and everyone wants to hang him out to dry. You have not seen the last of this man. He will play very well for us for a number of years to come.

Great article

Dude isn't he like 33 now? Years to come? Come on... I hope he has at least one productive year left tho.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I find it amusing that some people want Patten to stick around, a 33 year old WR who couldn't even make the NFL until he was 28 years old

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=1393

He's been playing for 9 years and is 31 years old so I don't know where the above comments came from...

[Mass_SkinsFan]

He's been playing for 9 years and is 31 years old so I don't know where the above comments came from...

Here's the simple answer....

David Patten's career has been so unspectacular that people have to look up his career stats to figure out hold old he is and how long he's been playing. That should tell you everything that needs to be known about him.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Here's the simple answer....

David Patten's career has been so unspectacular that people have to look up his career stats to figure out hold old he is and how long he's been playing. That should tell you everything that needs to be known about him.

:laugh:

MSF, I know your opinion of the guy. I was simply trying to show the facts about him instead of us having people saying random things like he couldn't crack into the league until 5 years ago. That's all.

And to address your point, when we're discussing our potential #4 or #5 WR, who really cares that much? In the end, they should only be relied on heavily in an emergency...and in an emergency, I would trust a veteran who's played in big games over a 4th year guy who hasn't.

I'm not saying that is right or wrong, but it's my opinion. What good is it to back up 3 young WRs with another young WR? It's not like TJ is going to grow much by sitting the bench behind Moss, Randle-El, and Lloyd. Why not have Thrash and Patten as your backups who can come in when needed but don't need the playing time to develop?

[UK Skins]

My only question is, if I click on Ignore Poster does it hide the entire posts or just the responses by Mass Skins Fan? Every single post right now seems to be hijacked by his own sad views on reality.

[Chris Worthy]

My only question is, if I click on Ignore Poster does it hide the entire posts or just the responses by Mass Skins Fan? Every single post right now seems to be hijacked by his own sad views on reality.

You wont see the posters post. but you will see his or her quote in someones responce to it.

[UK Skins]

Thanks, maybe that will at least help the situation.

[HailfrmDEN]

They had to KungFo chop him to try and stop him Moss said he was the guy he looked up to. :point2sky

[JimmiJo]

Sometimes it doesn't even take THAT long.

Which is fine. Obviously you have a lot more free time to waste than I do.

Winners understand that WINNING is the only thing that matters and doing whatever is necessary to WIN is what the game is all about.

Sorry, but this line of reasoning has never made ANY sense to me. I live by an "If you can't win, don't play" philosophy. This idea that competition, or trying, or "how you played the game" was the important thing always struck me as having been written by someone who never won anything. Believe me, I did more than my share of losing at athletic and competitive endevours as a child. That's largely why I've learned that I'd rather not be involved than to lose.

"Which is fine. Obviously you have a lot more free time to waste than I do."

I'm not sure I do, because while I do not always win I always get up and go at it. While you by your own admission refuse to participate because of your so-called "standards" and thus probably have much more time than I.

"Winners understand that WINNING is the only thing that matters and doing whatever is necessary to WIN is what the game is all about."

I'm not sure you are the person to tell what WINNERS understand as by your own admission you are not.

"Sorry, but this line of reasoning has never made ANY sense to me. I live by an "If you can't win, don't play" philosophy. This idea that competition, or trying, or "how you played the game" was the important thing always struck me as having been written by someone who never won anything. Believe me, I did more than my share of losing at athletic and competitive endevours as a child. That's largely why I've learned that I'd rather not be involved than to lose."

Your overall demeanor strikes me as basically nice, but I have to tell you that this is the attitude of a loser, not a winner. Winning is infectious, and magnetic. People are drawn to winners and winners tend to hang together.

You may need to hang with more winners.

Have you hugged a winner today

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I'm not sure I do, because while I do not always win I always get up and go at it. While you by your own admission refuse to participate because of your so-called "standards" and thus probably have much more time than I.

Actually, most of my time is taken up with non-competitive activities. Most weeks I'm incredibly lucky to have two free evenings and my weekends are often busier than the work week. The difference is that I involve myself with things that I feel will give me an amount of return on the investment of time and energy that competitive endeavours are not going to.

I'm not sure you are the person to tell what WINNERS understand as by your own admission you are not.

I've been around enough of them to get a very good understanding of what it takes to Win. Now of course this is all dependent on what you define as "Winning", which I think is one of the things we're never going to agree on.

Your overall demeanor strikes me as basically nice, but I have to tell you that this is the attitude of a loser, not a winner. Winning is infectious, and magnetic. People are drawn to winners and winners tend to hang together.

No. It's a REALISTS attitude. There is a certain amount of return on investment that I expect in life. If it isn't there in an activity, I avoid the activity. It's really basic math and economics.

Losing is as infectious as winning is. Winning, on the other hand, doesn't need to be infectious because you're talking about groups of people so much better than their opponents that even on their best day, the opponents have no chance.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

MSF,

Explain what type of "return of investment" you are seeking.

For example, I play recreation basketball every week. I do so as a way to get exercise without having to run on a particular day. I hope to play well and for my team to win, but if we don't, I'm still getting very good cardio exercise as a return on investment. Is that enough or is that a waste since I might not "win" any games?

What about a pro football player? Is it not enough that they get to play a game they love for millions of dollars? Is that a good enough return on investment if they don't win the SB?

[Mass_SkinsFan]

MSF,

Explain what type of "return of investment" you are seeking.

This is probably going to be long. I'll try to keep it as simple as possible, but it's gonna get a little personal to explain where I am coming from. I apologize in advance for that.

I've discussed my physical issues to a degree in the past. They're a large part of the reason that I've never been terribly good at athletic endeavours. Add in the fact that I have two younger brothers who are very athletic and who both played sports on the college level. By the time they were 9 & 10 respectively (I would have been 12 at the time), they were bigger, stronger and much better athletically than I was, without even much trying on their part and no matter how much effort was put in on my part. That's something I've always been very jealous of.

Now add in my earliest competitive sports ventures... youth soccer and little league baseball. In two years of youth soccer my team compiled a record of 1-23, including a 0-12 season my first year. My two years of little league had a slightly better 3-27 record. After the second year of both sports I decided it wasn't worth the time and effort I was putting in to go out and get my *** kicked every game and told my parents I didn't want to play anymore. I did get involved with the soccer team in junior high school and it was just more of the same.

Add in the Red Sox loss in the 1986 WS, the Bruins losses in the 88 and 90 Stanley Cup finals and if it wasn't for the Redskins, I wouldn't have had a single WINNING sports interest until high school.

In high school I worked with the football and baseball teams doing scorekeeping and statistics. That's when I got my first PERSONAL taste of winning. The football team went 26-5 in the three years I was there and went to a State Championship game. The baseball team WON a State Championship my Junior year. The Redskins also won the Super Bowl the January of the year I graduated from High School (1992).

This amalgamation of events really formulated my beliefs about Winning/losing and what sports are supposed to be.

Now, to actually answer your question......

The "Return on Investment" that I look for in life is a matter of comparing the amount of time, energy and interest that I put into the activity with the amount of personal satisfaction that I get out of it. When it comes to competitive endeavours, my background has colored that to mean WINNING. Destroying opponents the way that I routinely got destroyed in my younger days. Dominating and just Obliterating them. Leaving them with nothing positive to hold onto whatsoever.

That's a REALLY long answer to a really simple question, but I hope it does answer what you're looking for.

For example, I play recreation basketball every week. I do so as a way to get exercise without having to run on a particular day. I hope to play well and for my team to win, but if we don't, I'm still getting very good cardio exercise as a return on investment. Is that enough or is that a waste since I might not "win" any games?

If the cardio workout is all you're really seeking to get out of the activity, then you've probably met what I would call the "return on invesment". If you were actually looking to win games, then I would suggest you probably haven't. Personally, I don't get involved in anything competitive for any reason other than winning, so for me, the return wouldn't be there. You have to determine why it is you're playing to make the same determination.

What about a pro football player? Is it not enough that they get to play a game they love for millions of dollars? Is that a good enough return on investment if they don't win the SB?

That's up to them. Personally, I wouldn't be part of a team that I didn't believe would have a very good chance of going to and winning a SB. That's just me.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

MSF, I am not quoting you just to save space...

You make good points and answered everything I was asking. Thanks for that!

It all comes down to personal opinion, and you have legitimate reasons for why you look at things the way you do. Good for you.

Good luck this fall in your tournament, I hope you get out of it more than what you put into it my man!