Pentagon to Release video of Plane hit 9/11?

[ntotoro]

I am also sorry for your loss. Not to question you, my friend, but as far as I understand, little body parts were found.

I guess you have missed the pics that have floated around of bodies, some of which still in seats.

I can do a search if you really want to see them.

Edit: Now the site where I originally saw them has no trace.

[Predicto]

For the last time - just because I am bored...

Show me the money - that is all I want. Show me SOMETHING that verifies that Flight 77 struck the Pentagon.

Over 100 eyewitnesses.

But, in addition to those who said they saw a plane hit the Pentagon, there are those who said they saw something else strike the building. Some mentioned a small craft, other mentioned something more akin to a fighter plane. Also, some of the witnesses for the plane strike added details that didn't appear to be true, such as the jetliner striking the ground before the Pentagon's structure.

one or two eyewitnesses. Any lawyer can tell you that you can find one or two eyewitesses who will recall something wack in a traumatic event. But not 100.

Incidentally, "body parts" were few and far between at the crash site; after all, if the Pentagon, as proposed, shredded the 757, then what would it do to organic matter? In that context, I still do not see how any of the bodies were identified.

[/quotes]

Some pieces of debris were blown free in the explosion, including body parts. I do not know if any were identified as being tied to individuals, but it hardly matters.

We have some engine parts that have been seen in scene photographs, but to which plane they belong has been hotly disputed. Keep in mind that aircraft parts are registered to aircraft, and it would be a simple matter to produce the parts that would be verifitably associated with Flight 77.

except for the fact that they melt when exposed to sustained extremely high temperatures associated with the burning of tens of thousands of gallons of high grade aviation fuel.

Why did the Flight 77 disappear, with little reaction from FAA controllers, and suddenly appear, while executing a nearly impossible turn, traveling at 450 MPH while just a few feet above the ground?

Sorry, the turn is not at all impossible if you are trying to crash. It is only difficult if you are trying not to crash. And unfortunately , air traffic controllers are not assigned to watch individual planes from takeoff to landing. There are hundreds of flights coming into and leaving DC airspace at any particular time and a handful of air traffic controllers.

Incidentally, folks always ask "What happened to the passengers on the flight?" Hell if I know - you can guess what you want in such an evil scheme. Take a guess...

Sorry. We can make one person disappear. 200 - no way. Too many families, too many loose ends.

But, I am sorry to say, this case is not as airtight as one would propose on this thread because there is not the physical evidence, released by the government, examined by investigators, and provided to journalists, that says, "Here, Flight 77 struck the Pentagon."

And that would lay to rest any questions - but I don't think it will happen. And folks are not going to simply accept the government story because of that.

Yes it is airtight, completely airtight. People are not going to accept it because people like to believe wild stuff about major events.

I don't trust my government and I particularly don't trust this Administration, but this is one of the stupidest conspiracy theories to come down the pike in a long time. It requires an incredible amount of blinders to basic facts. I requires that you WANT to believe something completly inane, and that you will accept any rationalization to reach your desired conclusion.

Let me ask you this simple question. Did two planes crash into the Twin Towers or did they not? If our government was trying to manipulate or trick us in some way, why did they use jet planes for the twin towers, but not a plane for the Pentagon? If they can use planes, why would they not use one on the Pentagon and then lie to us about it afterwords? WTF could they possibly gain by this weirdness?

[Baculus]

I guess you have missed the pics that have floated around of bodies, some of which still in seats.

I can do a search if you really want to see them.

I haven't heard of such pics - the ones I have heard were from the WTC, which I do not dispute as far as the nature of the plane crash. That is a separate event.

But I have not heard of any "bodies in seats" for the Pentagon. I was going to add something extra, but, honestly, it isn't a very pretty discussion. I am going to wait for this story as it develops.

[ashburnskinsfan]

I am also sorry for your loss. Not to question you, my friend, but as far as I understand, little body parts were found.

But, inspite of your post, this does not dissuade me from asking questions. And if I knew someone on the plane, on my personal level, I'd be asking more questions and wondering why the system failed your friends.

A team of more than 50 forensic scientists and support staff working over several months were able to identify 184 of the 189 victims, primarily from DNA and dental records.

And bodies were found, still strapped in their seats, by the first on the scene.

And as for "the system failing my friends" ... you make me sick. There is only one reason why 9/11 happened and that is Islamic extremism.

With better dilligence and luck, perhaps the attacks could have been prevented. However, I don't have a high opinion of the competency of the US government bureaucracy, and I certainly don't think there is a chance they could have planned and executed the 9/11 attacks, and certainly not kept it covered up.

[Predicto]

I haven't heard of such pics - the ones I have heard were from the WTC, which I do not dispute as far as the nature of the plane crash. That is a separate event.

How could it possibly be a "separate event?" Just a massive coincidence?

[Prosperity]

A team of more than 50 forensic scientists and support staff working over several months were able to identify 184 of the 189 victims, primarily from DNA and dental records.

And bodies were found, still strapped in their seats, by the first on the scene.

And as for "the system failing my friends" ... you make me sick. There is only one reason why 9/11 happened and that is Islamic extremism.

With better dilligence and luck, perhaps the attacks could have been prevented. However, I don't have a high opinion of the competency of the US government bureaucracy, and I certainly don't think there is a chance they could have planned and executed the 9/11 attacks, and certainly not kept it covered up.

Don't hold it too much against Bac, he isn't one of the nuts. I think he just didn't know of the evidence you say.

[Baculus]

Over 100 eyewitnesses.

Have you actually bothered to read them? And have you read the "counter" witnesses?

one or two eyewitnesses. Any lawyer can tell you that you can find one or two eyewitnesses who will recall something wack in a traumatic even. But not 100.

Not all of the 100 witnesses agreed upon the same details, so the "100" witnesses starts to narrow down.

Default Re: Pentagon to Release video of Plane hit 9/11?

For the last time - just because I am bored...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baculus

Show me the money - that is all I want. Show me SOMETHING that verifies that Flight 77 struck the Pentagon.

Over 100 eyewitnesses.

Quote:

But, in addition to those who said they saw a plane hit the Pentagon, there are those who said they saw something else strike the building. Some mentioned a small craft; others mentioned something more akin to a fighter plane. Also, some of the witnesses for the plane strike added details that didn't appear to be true, such as the jetliner striking the ground before the Pentagon's structure.

one or two eyewitnesses. Any lawyer can tell you that you can find one or two eyewitnesses who will recall something wack in a traumatic even. But not 100.

Quote:

Incidentally, "body parts" were few and far between at the crash site; after all, if the Pentagon, as proposed, shredded the 757, then what would it do to organic matter? In that context, I still do not see how any of the bodies were identified.

[/quotes]

Some pieces of debris were blown free in the explosion, including body parts. I do not know if any were identified as being tied to individuals, but it hardly matters.

We have some engine parts that have been seen in scene photographs, but to which plane they belong has been hotly disputed. Keep in mind that aircraft parts are registered to aircraft, and it would be a simple matter to produce the parts that would be verifiably associated with Flight 77.

except for the fact that they melt when exposed to sustained extremely high temperatures associated with the burning of tens of thousands of gallons of high grade aviation fuel.

Have you bothered to look at the crash scene photos? Me thinks, no. There were actually a few parts found closer inside the inside damage of the Pentagon, but their nature has been disputed due to their size and shape. These are the parts whose serial numbers you can examine, and they were in good enough shape that they should have had some serial numbers. Voila - you have matching crime scene information.

Sorry, the turn is not at all impossible if you are trying to crash. It is only difficult if you are trying not to crash.

At the angle and turn that was taken by Flight 77, air traffic controllers thought that a military pilot was piloting the plane. It was an EXTREMELY difficult angle, so yes, it was VERY difficult to strike the building at the speed and the angle of attack, especially due to the initial direction that the Flight 77 was traveling. Especially, keep in mind the distance off of the ground that plane was traveling.

Once again, Predicto, I would suggest to read the details of the crash. From the casual assessment you gave of the plane's flight path, I don't think you are familiar with it.

Sorry. We can make one person disappear. 200 - no way.

First of all, it was 64 people, not 200. You have incorrect figures.

If there was a truly evil plot as attributed to 9-11 and the government, then 200 people would be nothing. I am not saying this happened, but it would simply take landing a plane and taking the passengers off the aircraft. You have to remember that Flight 77's transponder was turned off, and that the plane disappeared for a duration of time before suddenly appearing very close to Northern Virginia.

Yes it is airtight. People are not going to accept it because people like to believe wild stuff about major events.

How is it airtight? You have yet to provide any details of this airtight case. In fact, you are not even familiar with some of the intimate details of the attack. You are attempting to discuss an issue that, I believe, is worthy of further investigation.

I don't trust my government and I particularly don't trust this Administration, but this is one of the stupidest conspiracy theories to come down the pike in a long time. It requires an incredible amount of blinders to basic facts.

What basic facts? You have yet to provide any in this case. What are you suddenly sounding like a person that you usually argue against? The LACK of basic facts is, in fact, usually missing from those I usually debate in this matter (most who accept the government's story actually lack the basic facts of this event). Why? Because if you accept the government's story, then you don't bother researching this particular incident.

So, once, again, what are the basic facts? Keep in mind, my belief in this story has little to do with a "hatred" of the Bush administration.

Let me ask you this simple question. Did two planes crash into the Twin Towers or not? If our government was trying to manipulate or trick us in some way, why did they use jet planes for the twin towers, but not a plane for the Pentagon? If they can use planes, why would they not use one on the Pentagon and then lie to us about it afterwords? WTF could they possibly gain by this weirdness?

I believe two planes struck the WTC. I also do not find it impossible that a plane struck the Pentagon. As I said repeatedly, my questions regarding 9-11 is not hinging upon the 9-11 missile theory. But, there have been questions raised that have yet to be answered. And, if the government WAS involved in 9-11, then who knows why they would use an alternate means of attack. My best theory was due to the difficulty of striking the Pentagon: A missile or attack plane was simply easier.

Hell, if I was a terrorist, that's what I would use.

Last - I always post this. If you believe it is an absurd idea that the government would carry out 9-11, then read about Operation Northwoods and the planned creation of terrorist cells in the U.S. Then maybe such a proposition does not seem as insane:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

[EersSkins05]

Does anyone have an inkling of the sheer magnitude of BALLS it would take for the government to honestly think that they could orchestrate the Pentagon attacks in any way other than the official record indicates?

"Yeah, we're going to fire a missile into the Pentagon, located in a major metropolitan city near one of the busiest roadways in the US, from a fighter plane and tell everyone that a 747 hit the building. Trust me, no one will notice."

For Christ's sake, these people can't even keep pre-Katrina video footage of the President being informed of the dangers that would eventually happen from leaking. What makes you think they'd be capable of keeping under wraps the most heinous conspiracy in the history of the United States, one that would require the compliance of hundreds, if not thousands of individuals?

[Skins24]

I guess you have missed the pics that have floated around of bodies, some of which still in seats.

I can do a search if you really want to see them.

Edit: Now the site where I originally saw them has no trace.

I still have a working link, this one doesn't show them still in their seats though....

The link has most or all of the pics from the Moussaoui trial

PM

[DC_Skins]

Source it tinfoil.

[Zguy28]

I don't know why they would release any additional evidence at this point, it's pretty much an open and shut case, right.

Because someone requested it under the Freedom of Information Act.

Just look at the veritable mountain of physical evidence proving an airliner hit the pentagon that's already out there! Oh, wait a minute, there is none!

Oh yeah, I guess my coworker didn't die on that plane either.:doh: Or my boss didn't look out the office window and see it coming in and BOOM!

[Darth Tater]

ashburnskinsfan,

It was systemic failure. People who do not realize this are even scarier then the crazies who believe the Pentagon event was faked.

[Skins24]

Last - I always post this. If you believe it is an absurd idea that the government would carry out 9-11, then read about Operation Northwoods and the planned creation of terrorist cells in the U.S. Then maybe such a proposition does not seem as insane:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

People like mentioning that north woods crap... :laugh:

Care to take just one guess as to why nothing ever came about from that. And do you think all the numorous reasons why they didn't do it then have changed? :laugh:

[heyholetsgogrant]

I want the tape from the hotel across the street...

-Grant

[Cambl2Moss]

Well, George Bush is responsible.

Bill Clinton is responsible...hes the one who had Bin Laden but decided to give him up rather than persecute him for his crimes...

PINKOS!

[ashburnskinsfan]

ashburnskinsfan,

It was systemic failure. People who do not realize this are even scarier then the crazies who believe the Pentagon event was faked.

I think it depends on which 'system' you are talking about.

I agree that the FBI failed in its responsibilities. But as corrective action has not been taken with the culture of the FBI more than four years after the attacks I can only assume that FBI management are happy with their 'system'. Who has been fired as a result of 'systemic failures'?

[HailYeah]

Ok, I finally saw the video. It looks like it is two security cams that show one frame about every second or so. There's only one thing that I can verify from watching the vid. That plane was moving. Its going so fast that you can barely tell what it is (it looks much smaller than a plane), but that may just be due to the lens of the camera. Also, it appears that it did in fact hit just before the Pentagon, but that makes no difference as to how much damage the Pentagon sustained. Thats all my untrained eyes can make of it.

[Baculus]

People like mentioning that north woods crap...

Care to take just one guess as to why nothing ever came about from that. And do you think all the numorous reasons why they didn't do it then have changed?

First, when I first discussed this "crap," I was told it was fake and didn't exist. Then I showed the evidence that, indeed, this plan was real: A plan to murder Americans, even John Glenn, is not "crap," especially if it was proposed by our government. And then it is dismissed as "oh, that's nothing."

Yes, Kennedy did not agree to carryout the plan. Oh guess what? Kennedy died! Oh yeah...

Crap - sure...Don't worry, be happy, right, citizen?

[wskin44]

And quit calling people fools, boy! You are 24 years old so you basically know nearly nothing about anything at this point.

that must make you my b. :laugh:

[wskin44]

Well, George Bush is responsible.

What? Did he grow up and I missed it?

[wshngtn1]

Vid is up on cnn.com now. It's hard to see anything very clearly. There are two camera angles (although similiar) in the same video. On the second view, it shows the angle of the plane and it appears that it had to hit the ground first. I'm not a missile expert, but I haven't heard of many missiles that would hit the ground with out immediately exploding. Please explain...

[wskin44]

Are they going to use the same sound studio where they filmed the moon landing?

now that's funny right there. :laugh:

[wshngtn1]

Vid is up on cnn.com now. It's hard to see anything very clearly. There are two camera angles (although similiar) in the same video. On the second view, it shows the angle of the plane and it appears that it had to hit the ground first. I'm not a missile expert, but I haven't heard of many missiles that would hit the ground with out immediately exploding. Please explain...

On the first video you can see the line of smoke leading up to the to building in the frame of impact. It definitely hit early. I'm sorry, but a missile couldn't do this. We have the capability of shooting a missile through a window....how is it that this so called missile not only missed the target but also slid into the building?

[Skins24]

First, when I first discussed this "crap," I was told it was fake and didn't exist. Then I showed the evidence that, indeed, this plan was real: A plan to murder Americans, even John Glenn, is not "crap," especially if it was proposed by our government. And then it is dismissed as "oh, that's nothing."

Yes, Kennedy did not agree to carryout the plan. Oh guess what? Kennedy died! Oh yeah...

Crap - sure...Don't worry, be happy, right, citizen?

I love you people. Great entertainment!

Kennedy died and.....

what? Nothing happened after he died.

You still didn't answer my question. Have the hundreds of reasons why something like that would never work and never be able to be covered up changed?

[wskin44]

zeezus. I had no idea that I had wandered into the X-Files thread.