217 Million More Legal Immigrants Over 20 Years!

[Fergasun]

U.S. Sen. Jeff Sessions Unveils Massive Numerical Impact Of Senate Immigration Bill

WASHINGTON — U.S. Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) today unveiled an impact analysis that shows the Senate immigration bill – should it become law – would permit up to 217.1 million new legal immigrants into the United States over the next 20 years, a number equal to 66 percent of the total current population of the United States.

Even if the maximum levels are not reached, the increase to the U.S. population caused by S. 2611 will be at least 78.7 million in 20 years, just over 25 percent of the total current population. This lower estimate assumes that the bill's escalating caps on certain visas will not increase at all over the next 20 years; if the bill's caps are hit each year, the total number will be the higher estimate.

...

H-2C Workers: By creating a new (H-2C) visa category for “temporary guest workers” (low skilled workers) with an annual “cap” of 325,000 that increases up to 20 percent each year the cap is met, the bill allows at least 6.5 million, and up to 60.7 million new guest workers to come to the United States over the next 20 years.

H-4 Family Members of H-2C Workers: By creating a new visa category (H-4) for the immediate family members of the future low-skilled workers (H-2C), and allowing them to also receive green cards, the bill would allow at least 7.8 million, and up to 72.8 million immediate family members of low-skilled workers to come to the United States over the next 20 years

H-1B: The bill would essentially open the borders to high-skilled workers, as well as low-skilled workers.... the 20-year impact of this escalation could be anywhere from 1 million to 20.1 million.

Family Based Green Cards: The bill would increase the annual cap on family based green cards available to non-immediate family members... The 20-year impact of this change would be an increase of 5.1 million non-immediate family member green cards.

Employment Based Green Cards: The bill would increase the annual cap on employment-based green cards by more than 500 percent, upping the current cap of 140,000 to 450,000 until 2016 and to 290,000 thereafter and exempting all immediate family members that currently count against the cap today (spouses, children and parents) from the newly escalated cap... The 20-year impact of this change would be an increase of 13.5 million employment-based green cards, for a total of 16.3 million employment-based green cards issued over the course of the next 20 years.

So from what I see we'd mostly be importing the poor H-2C workers. Anyone familiar with the immigration systems knows current caps are reached in a few days (maybe sooner?).

Now that you know the impact, how do you feel about the Senate Bill?

My gut says this is Dead on Arrival, as it doesn't square with the House nor with American people.

[Midnight Judges]

My gut tells me Senator Sessions is full of it and that his "analysis" was conducted with a desired outcome. He's one of these hell-in-a-handbasket Republicans trying to convince old people that we are becoming a third world country. Ugh.

[DjTj]

U.S. Sen. Jeff Sessions Unveils Massive Numerical Impact Of Senate Immigration Bill

So from what I see we'd mostly be importing the poor H-2C workers. Anyone familiar with the immigration systems knows current caps are reached in a few days (maybe sooner?).

Now that you know the impact, how do you feel about the Senate Bill?

My gut says this is Dead on Arrival, as it doesn't square with the House nor with American people.

Actually, most immigration caps are never reached.

The only waiting lists that are full are the family-sponsored immigration quotas and the lower-skilled employment-based quotas. Congress has been granting exceptions for extra H-1B's over the cap for many years now, so that isn't even a hard ceiling. We have had leftover employment-based green cards for many years now.

The gigantic ranges in these projections is a little bit suspect. The top projection that Sessions points out will only be reached if Congress raises the cap each year, which I seriously doubt will happen. Our original quota system was supposed to be raised each year, and we pretty much stopped doing that a while ago.

In any case, 79 million immigrants over 20 years wouldn't actually be that big of a deal. US population growth over the past 20 years was about 60 million so that would be well in line with our growth rate.

[Predicto]

Do you really think that Jeff Sessions is painting an accurate picture here?

Do you really think that all of the rest of Congress and the Administration simply don't understand what they are discussing, and that they are going to make a huge mathematical mistake, and they will then be powerless to fix it and we will be swamped by 217.1 million immigrants?

[tapstaks2000]

It says "least 7.8 million, and up to 72.8 million "in 20 years. So how is that 217 million.

[drums and skins]

78.7 million = minimum in 20 years

217 million = maximum in 20 years

[Cdowwe]

Im not gonna argue whether this man is right or not, cause I dont know anything about him. But if it was ...say 217 Million... thats scary.

[Sarge]

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

Senate Immigration Bill Would Allow 100 Million New Legal Immigrants over the Next Twenty Years

by Robert Rector

WebMemo #1076

May 15, 2006 | |

If enacted, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S.2611) would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years, allowing an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the U.S. over the next 20 years—fully one-third of the current population of the United States.

Much attention has been given to the fact that the bill grants amnesty to some 10 million illegal immigrants. Little or no attention has been given to the fact that the bill would quintuple the rate of legal immigration into the United States, raising, over time, the inflow of legal immigrants from around one million per year to over five million per year. The impact of this increase in legal immigration dwarfs the magnitude of the amnesty provisions.

In contrast to the 103 million immigrants permitted under CIRA, current law allows 19 million legal immigrants over the next twenty years. Relative to current law, then, CIRA would add an extra 84 million legal immigrants to the nation’s population.

The figure of 103 million legal immigrants is a reasonable estimate of the actual immigration inflow under the bill and not the maximum number that would be legally permitted to enter. The maximum number that could legally enter would be almost 200 million over twenty years—over 180 million more legal immigrants than current law permits.

Immigration Status

To understand the provisions of CIRA, largely based on a compromise by Senators Chuck Hagel (R–Nebraska) and Mel Martinez (R–Florida), it is useful to distinguish between the three legal statuses that a legal immigrant might hold:

Temporary Status: Persons in this category enter the U.S. temporarily and are required to leave after a period of time.

Near-Permanent, Convertible Status: Persons in this category enter the U.S. and are given the opportunity to “adjust” or convert to legal permanent residence after a few years.

Legal Permanent Residence (LPR): Persons in this category have the right to remain in the United States for their entire lives. After five years, they have the right to naturalize and become citizens. As naturalized citizens, they have the constitutional rights to vote and to receive any government benefits given to native-born citizens.

A key feature of CIRA is that most immigrants identified as “temporary” are, in fact, given convertible status with a virtually unrestricted opportunity to become legal permanent residents and then citizens.

Another important feature of both CIRA and existing immigration law is that immigrants in convertible or LPR status have the right to bring spouses and minor children into the country. Spouses and dependent children will be granted permanent residence along with the primary immigrant and may also become citizens. In addition, after naturalizing, an immigrant has the right to bring his parents into the U.S. as permanent residents with the opportunity for citizenship. There are no numeric limits on the number of spouses, dependent children, and parents of naturalized citizens that may be brought into the country. Additionally, the siblings and adult children (along with their families) of naturalized citizens and the adult children (and their families) of legal permanent residents are given preference in future admission but are subject to numeric caps.

Key Provisions of CIRA

Four key provisions of CIRA would result in an explosive increase in legal immigration.

Amnesty for Current Illegal Immigrants: CIRA offers amnesty and citizenship to 85 percent of the nation’s current 11.9 million illegal immigrants. Under the plan, illegal immigrants who have been in the U.S. for five years or more (60 percent of illegals) would be granted immediate amnesty. Illegal immigrants who have been in the country between two and five years (25 percent of illegals) could travel to one of 16 “ports of entry,” where they would receive amnesty and lawful work permits.[1] In total, the bill would grant amnesty to 85 percent of the current illegal immigrant population, or some 10 million individuals.

After receiving amnesty, illegal immigrants would spend six years in a provisional status before attaining LPR status. After five years in LPR status, they would have the opportunity to become naturalized citizens and vote in U.S. elections. As well, the spouses and dependent children of current illegal immigrants would have the right to enter the U.S. and become citizens.[2] There would be no numeric limit on the number of illegal immigrants, spouses, and dependents receiving LPR status; under the amnesty provision, such individuals would not be counted against any other cap or limit in immigration law.[3]

The New “Temporary Guest Worker” Program: CIRA creates an entirely new “temporary guest worker” (H-2C) program. There is nothing temporary about this program; nearly all “guest workers” would have the right to become permanent residents and then citizens.

Foreign workers could enter the U.S. as guest workers if they have a job offer from a U.S. employer. In practical terms, U.S. companies would recruit foreign workers to enter the guest worker program and immigrate to the U.S. Most likely, intermediate employment firms would specialize in recruiting foreign labor for U.S. employers.

Guest workers would be allowed to remain in the U.S. for six years.[4] However, in the fourth year, the guest worker could ask for LPR status and would receive it if he has learned English or is enrolled in an English class.[5] There are no numeric limits on the number of guest workers who could receive LPR status. Upon receiving LPR status, the guest worker could remain in the country permanently. He could become a U.S. citizen and vote in U.S. elections after just five more years.

The spouses and minor children of guest workers would also be permitted to immigrate to the U.S.[6] When guest workers petition for LPR status, their spouses and children would receive it as well. Five years after obtaining LPR status, these spouses could become naturalized citizens. The bill sets no limit on the number of spouses and children who could immigrate under the guest worker program. After workers and their spouses have obtained citizenship, they would be able to bring in their parents as legal permanent residents.

The bill does provide numeric limits on the number of guest workers who can enter the country each year, but the number starts high and then grows exponentially. In the first year, 325,000 H-2C visas would be given out, but if employer demand for guest workers is high, that number could be boosted by an extra 65,000 in the next year. If employer demand for H-2C workers continues to be high, the number of H-2C visas could be raised by up to 20 percent in each subsequent year.

The 20 percent exponential escalator provision allows the number of H-2C immigrants to climb steeply in future years. If the H-2C cap were increased by 20 percent each year, within twenty years the annual inflow of workers would reach 12 million. At this 20 percent growth rate, a total of 70 million guest workers would enter the U.S. over the next two decades and none would be required to leave. While it is unlikely that so many workers would enter, the program does have the potential to bring ten of millions of immigrants to the U.S.

The “guest worker” program, then, is an open door program, based on the demands of U.S. business, that would allow an almost unlimited number of workers and dependents to enter the U.S. from anywhere in world and become citizens. It is essentially an “open border” provision.

Additional Permanent Visas for Siblings, Adult Children, and their Families: The permanent entry of non-immediate relatives—such as brothers, sisters, and adult children—is currently subject to a cap of 480,000 per year minus the number of immediate relatives (the parents, spouses, and minor children of U.S. citizens) admitted in the prior year. CIRA eliminates the deduction for immediate relatives from the cap.[7] This effectively increases the number of non-immediate relatives who could attain LPR status by 254,000 per year.

Additional Permanent Employment Visas: The U.S. currently issues around 140,000 employment-based visas each year. Under CIRA, the U.S. would issue 450,000 employment-based green cards per year between 2007 and 2016.[8] After 2016, the number would fall to 290,000 per year.[9] Under current law, LPR visas going to the spouses and children of workers with employment-based visas are counted against the cap. Under CIRA, these spouses and children would be removed from the cap and given legal permanent residence without numeric limits.[10] Historically, 1.2 dependent relatives have entered the U.S. for each worker under employment-based immigration programs.[11] This means that some 990,000 persons per year would be granted LPR status until 2016 and, after that, 638,000 per year.

Estimating Future Immigration Under CIRA

Most provisions of CIRA are straightforward; in many categories, the number of future immigrants allowed is either directly stated or can be easily calculated from the law’s provisions. In some areas, however, the law’s impact is uncertain. To estimate future legal immigration under the bill, three assumptions have been used in this paper:

Spouses and children of workers: Dependent spouses and children represent a major component of current immigration. In the current employment-based visa program, 1.2 dependents enter for each incoming worker.[12] This paper assumes this ratio will continue in the employment-based program and will also apply to those entering under the new guest worker program. This is a conservative assumption: guest workers are likely to have lower education levels and thus to have larger families. Finally, many current illegal immigrants who would receive amnesty under the bill already have families in the U.S.; therefore the ratio of incoming spouses and children to amnesty recipients is assumed to be only 0.6, or half the ratio of the employment-based program.

Parents of naturalized citizens: Parents of naturalized citizens currently make up eight percent of all new legal immigrants. This paper assumes that half of all adult immigrants will naturalize after five years of LPR status and that 30 percent of the parents of these naturalized citizens will immigrate in the three years after their children’s naturalization.

Growth in the guest worker program: The number of immigrants in the guest worker program will be driven by employer demand. The bill allows the number of H-2C visas to increase by 20 percent per year; this level of growth would result in an extraordinary 60 million guest workers in the U.S. over the next twenty years. This paper assumes that the number of immigrants in the guest worker program would increase at a more moderate rate of 10 percent per year. Alternative estimates for 20 percent growth and zero growth in the program are also presented.[13]

A Flood of Legal Immigrants

Under CIRA, immigrants could enter the country or attain lawful status within the country through eight channels. In each channel, immigrants would be granted permanent residence and the right to become citizens. The first channel represents immigrants who would have entered under current law; the second channel represents illegal immigrants who are currently in the country and would be given legal permanent residence under the bill. The other six channels represent new inflows of legal immigrants that would occur as a result of the bill. The total number of new legal immigrants over a twenty year period would be as follows: (See Charts 1 and 2.)

Visas under current law: Roughly 950,000 persons receive permanent residence visas under current law each year. Over 20 years, the inflow of immigrants through this channel would be 19 million. This represents the status quo under existing law.

Amnesty: The bill would grant amnesty to roughly 10 million illegal immigrants. These individuals are currently living in the U.S.; amnesty would allow them to remain legally and to become U.S. citizens.

Expanded family chain migration: The number of family-sponsored visas for secondary family members, such as adult brothers and sisters, is currently limited to 480,000 per year minus the number of visas given to immediate family members (spouses, minor children, and parents of U.S. citizens). The bill changes the law so that the total quota on secondary family members would be 480,000 without deductions for immediate family members. The net increase in the number of immigrants under this provision would be around 254,000 per year, or 5.1 million over 20 years.[14]

Employment-based green cards: The bill would increase the number of employment-based visas from 140,000 to 450,000 per year. For the first time, it would also exempt the spouses and children of workers from the cap. Total annual immigration under this provision is likely to be 450,000 workers plus 540,000 family members annually. The net increase above current law over 20 years would be around 13.5 million persons.[15]

The guest worker (H-2C) program: CIRA would allow 325,000 persons to participate in the guest worker program in the first year. This number could rise by 65,000 in the next year and then by 20 percent per year. Assuming 10 percent annual growth in the annual number of guest workers entering the country (well below the bill’s maximum), the total inflow of workers under this program would be 20 million over 20 years.

Spouses and children of guest workers: Guest workers could bring their spouses and children to the U.S. as permanent residents; the added number of entrants would be 24 million over 20 years.

Spouses and children of illegal immigrants given amnesty: Illegal immigrants who received amnesty could bring their spouses and children into the U.S. as legal permanent residents with the opportunity for full citizenship. The number of spouses and children who would enter the U.S. as a result of amnesty would be at least six million.

Parents of naturalized citizens. The bill would substantially increase the number of naturalized citizens. Naturalized citizens would have an unlimited right to bring their parents into the U.S. as legal permanent residents. Over twenty years, the number of parents who would enter the U.S. as permanent legal residents as a result of CIRA would be around five million.

Overall, the bill would allow some 103 million persons to legally immigrate over the next twenty years. This is roughly one-third of the current population of the United States. All of these new entrants would be permanent residents and would have the right to become citizens. This would be a 84 million person net increase over current law.

Legal Flow Compared to Illegal Immigration

All of the immigration discussed to this point would be legal immigration. If illegal immigration continued after enactment of S.2611, the inflow of immigrants would be even greater. Although illegal immigration is considered a major problem, the proposed legal immigration under CIRA would dwarf it numerically. The net inflow of illegal immigrants into the U.S. population is around 700,000 per year.[16] Legal immigration under CIRA would exceed five million per year, seven times the rate of the current illegal immigration flow. Annual legal and illegal immigration together now equals about 1.7 million; future legal immigration alone under CIRA would be three times this amount.

Range of Estimates

The figure of 103 million new legal immigrants is based on the assumption that immigration under the guest worker program would grow at 10 percent per year. If guest-worker immigration grows at the maximum rate permitted by the bill, 20 percent per year, the total number of new immigrants coming to the U.S. over the next twenty years would be 193 million. On the other hand, if immigration under the H-2C program did not increase at all for two decades but remained fixed at the initial level of 325,000 per year, total legal immigration under CIRA would be 72 million over twenty years, or more than three times the level that would occur under current law. (See Chart 3.)

The tables in the Appendix show annual inflows of total legal immigrants in each of the eight channels mentioned above over the next twenty years. The tables show the estimated yearly rate of immigration under three scenarios for the H-2C program: zero growth, ten percent growth, and twenty percent growth.

Dwarfing the Great Migration

Between 1870 and 1920, the U.S. experienced a massive flow of immigration known as the “great migration”. During this period, foreign born persons hovered between 13 and 15 percent of the population.[17]In 1924, Congress passed major legislation greatly reducing future immigration. By 1970, foreign born persons had fallen to 5 percent of the population.

In the last three decades, immigration has increased sharply. The foreign born now comprise around 12 percent of the population, approaching the levels of the early 1900’s. However, if CIRA were enacted, and 100 million new immigrants entered the country over the next twenty years, foreign born persons would rise to over one quarter of the U.S. population.[18] There is no precedent for that level of immigration at any time in U.S. history.

Conclusion

If enacted, CIRA would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years. In its overall impact on the nation, the bill would rival other historic milestones, such as the creation of Social Security or Medicare.

The bill would give amnesty to 10 million illegal immigrants and quintuple the rate of legal immigration into the U.S. Under the bill, the annual inflow of immigrants with the option of becoming legal permanent residents would rise from the current level of one million per year to more than five million per year. Within a few years, the annual inflow of new immigrants would exceed one percent of the current U.S. population. This would be the highest immigration rate in U.S. history.

Within 20 years, some 103 million new immigrants would enter the U.S. This number is about one-third of the current U.S. population. All of these immigrants would be permanent residents with the right to become citizens and vote in U.S. elections. CIRA would transform the United States socially, economically, and politically. Within two decades, the character of the nation would differ dramatically from what exists today.

Robert Rector is Senior Research Fellow in Domestic Policy Studies at The Heritage Foundation.

[1] S.2611, Section 601.

[2] S.2611 under Section 601, section 245B(a)(2).

[3] S.2611, under Section 601, section 245B (a)(3).

[4] S.2611, Section 403 (f)(1).

[5] S.2611 Section 408 (n)(1)(.

[6] See S.6211, Section 403 (m)(1). Some might argue that the number of guest workers who would be permitted to attain LPR status would be subject to the overall caps on employment-based permanent visas elsewhere in law. But Section 408(h) of the bill, which deals with the right of guest workers to convert to LPR status, clearly states that “employment-based immigrant visas shall be made available to an alien having nonimmigrant status described in section 101(a)(15)(H)(ii)© [the H-2C program] upon the filing of a petition for such a visa.” In other word, LPR status shall be granted to any guest worker upon his filing of petition; there is no mention of any numeric cap or other mechanism limits the number of such status adjustments. If the bill’s authors intend to limit the opportunity of guest workers to obtain legal permanent residence with a numeric cap, then the bill should explicitly state that fact.

[7] S.2611 Section 501 (a)

[8] S.2611 Section 501(

[9] S.2611, Section 501(

[10] S.2611, Section 501(

[11] Ruth Ellen Wasem, “U.S. Immigration Policy on Permanent Admissions,” CRS Report for Congress, Congressional Research Service, Library of Congress, May 12, 2006, p. 18.

[12] Ibid.

[13] Several factors have not been included in the estimates. The paper ignores future levels of illegal immigration. The paper assumes that there are some 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S.; this widely used figure rests on the assumption that nearly all illegal immigrants are counted in annual Census surveys. In fact, the number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. may be much larger; this would mean that the number of immigrants eligible for amnesty would also be higher. The paper also assumes that there will be no successful fraud in applications for amnesty; in fact, the standards for proving prior residence and employment in the U.S. are very flimsy. Fraud may be prevalent, further boosting amnesty numbers. Finally, there is no attempt to estimate return to native countries or reverse migration by new immigrants. In effect, the paper assumes that returns will be matched by a corresponding increase in new entrants under the H-2C program.

[14] This number is the net increase in immigration due to the legislation and does not include the secondary family members who would have immigrated under current law.

[15] This number is the net increase in employment-based immigration and does not include persons who would have immigrated under current law.

[16] Jeffrey Passel Unauthorized Migrants: Numbers and Characteristics, Pew Hispanic Center, Washington, D.C, June 14, 2005, p.6.

[17]National Research Council, The New Americans: Economic, Demographic and Fiscal Effects of Immigration, National Academy Press, Washington, D.C. 1997, p. 35

[18] Currently there are around 35.7 million foreign-born persons in the U.S. (Passel, op.cit., p.3). With a new influx of 103 million immigrants, the total foreign-born population would reach around 124 million (adjusting for deaths in the interim.) Given the massive projected immigration, the population of the U.S. would have swollen to around 449 million by 2027. This would be up from a base projection of around 355 million. (U.S. Census Bureau, 2004, “U.S. Interim Projections by Age, Sex, Race and Hispanic Origin,” at http.://www.census.gov/ipc/www/usinterimproj/. The foreign born would comprise around 27 percent of the total population.

[chomerics]

Im not gonna argue whether this man is right or not, cause I dont know anything about him. But if it was ...say 217 Million... thats scary.

Exactly what the expected response is. Completely lie about the outcome, make up some ludicrous fictional number and the vast majority of the public won;t bother to look up the number. The only thing that "sticks" in their head is the 217million number. That is what the republican parts was able to do for years, and hopefully people will actualy pay attention to this.

[chomerics]

Ahh yes, the crux of the issue, thanks Sarge.

The only reason they are coming up with those outlandish numbers is because of an exponential. They have a 20% increase based on AMOUNT OF JOBS and if they are needed. If they are needed, then they are allowed into the system, if not, then the number does not go up.

Exponents add real fast, especially if you start out with 325,000 and add 1/5th every year. It is a complete joke to even present a number like that.

THe program allows 325,000 people a year and it takes what the business' ask for. Simple as that. If they need more workers, it can only go up by 20%, and it can also go down as well.

There is an issue with the bill I think though. It is in the fact that business will just act as "illegal" factories, and continue to dump the 5 year worker for the one year worker.

[twa]

Well, Chom...what would be a acceptable figure in your opinion?

75 million over 20 yrs?

[chomerics]

Well, Chom...what would be a acceptable figure in your opinion?

75 million over 20 yrs?

That number is a joke too.

It looks like we will allow about 1million a year into the country based on estimates for 10 years then a little more then 1/2 a million in 2016. So in 20 years, there will be 16million immigrants, not 75milion, not 200million, not 270 million, but 16. . .

At least that is what I have read right now.

The bill does provide numeric limits on the number of guest workers who can enter the country each year, but the number starts high and then grows exponentially. In the first year, 325,000 H-2C visas would be given out, but if employer demand for guest workers is high, that number could be boosted by an extra 65,000 in the next year. If employer demand for H-2C workers continues to be high, the number of H-2C visas could be raised by up to 20 percent in each subsequent year.

The 20 percent exponential escalator provision allows the number of H-2C immigrants to climb steeply in future years. If the H-2C cap were increased by 20 percent each year, within twenty years the annual inflow of workers would reach 12 million. At this 20 percent growth rate, a total of 70 million guest workers would enter the U.S. over the next two decades and none would be required to leave. While it is unlikely that so many workers would enter, the program does have the potential to bring ten of millions of immigrants to the U.S.

So right there it looks like 325,000 per year. . .

But on top of it you have this. . .

Additional Permanent Employment Visas: The U.S. currently issues around 140,000 employment-based visas each year. Under CIRA, the U.S. would issue 450,000 employment-based green cards per year between 2007 and 2016.[8] After 2016, the number would fall to 290,000 per year.[9] Under current law, LPR visas going to the spouses and children of workers with employment-based visas are counted against the cap. Under CIRA, these spouses and children would be removed from the cap and given legal permanent residence without numeric limits.[10] Historically, 1.2 dependent relatives have entered the U.S. for each worker under employment-based immigration programs.[11] This means that some 990,000 persons per year would be granted LPR status until 2016 and, after that, 638,000 per year.

So that's where the 16million over 20 years comes in.

[Midnight Judges]

Well, Chom...what would be a acceptable figure in your opinion?

75 million over 20 yrs?

Obviously I'm not Chom but I have a historically reasonable answer. If memory serves the population of immigrants in the USA has been as high as 14.1% in the 20th century. Right now, counting even the illegal aliens we're at 11-12%. I would suggest that America can handle a 15% foriegn born population. This means 70 million over the next 20 years is fine by me even though I think that number is drastically higher than any realistic scenario.

[chomerics]

Obviously I'm not Chom but I have a historically reasonable answer. If memory serves the population of immigrants in the USA has been as high as 14.1% in the 20th century. Right now, counting even the illegal aliens we're at 11-12%. I would suggest that America can handle a 15% foriegn born population. This means 70 million over the next 20 years is fine by me even though I think that number is drastically higher than any realistic scenario.

It still wouldn't be 70million. If the same % remain and you use a predicted growth model, we wouldn't be at a population of 800+ million. . .

(45million forign born + 70million new) = 125 million and at 15% of the population, we would have 833million people.

We will not have a population that high then. As of right now, our population is pretty balanced. I actually think that is what they are trying to do with this, but I don't see any mathematic models of the population growth. I can only assume they used a few good models to go by. From the outset, it looks like they based their numbers on just that.

[wskin44]

I'm fine with it as long as they work and pay enough taxes to pull us out of this deficit hole and allow us to honor Social Security and Medicare obligations for the next 50 years.

[DjTj]

That number is a joke too.

It looks like we will allow about 1million a year into the country based on estimates for 10 years then a little more then 1/2 a million in 2016. So in 20 years, there will be 15million immigrants, not 75milion, not 200million, not 270 million, but 15. . .

At least that is what I have read right now.

I actually think the 50-70 million numbers would be pretty accurate the way they're trying to count it here.

Let's just take the year 2004 as an example. During 2004, we issued:

750,000 H visas for temporary workers and family

950,000 green cards

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/yearbook/Yearbook2004.pdf

An estimated 700,000 undocumented immigrants enter the United States unlawfully each year.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/46.pdf

Multiply those numbers by 20 and you're already talking about 50 million immigrants over the next 20 years - and that's if we leave the law exactly as it is now. The intersting thing is that we've had these kinds of numbers throughout the 90's, but there hasn't been a huge explosion in the percentage of foreign-born in the United States because not everyone who receives a visa or a green card actually stays ... Consider that in 2004, we only naturalized 662,794 new U.S. citizens. Those that do stay and naturalize also tend to produce American-born children, so they end up adding to both columns. There's also a lot of double-counting because a lot of people with H visas will try to get green cards, and I would expect the same thing to happen with the new guest worker visas.

Anyhow, the bottom line is that when looking at these numbers, you should keep in mind that even if we don't change the law, our baseline is 50 million over the next 20 years and that number will overcount immigrants that are simply changing their immigrations status.

[twa]

By this quote you must feel immigration is going to slow down?

"

That number is a joke too.

It looks like we will allow about 1million a year into the country based on estimates for 10 years then a little more then 1/2 a million in 2016. So in 20 years, there will be 16million immigrants, not 75milion, not 200million, not 270 million, but 16. . .

At least that is what I have read right now.""

Since we have had about 1.5 million a yr average already.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back1405.html

Flow of New Immigrants. Another way to examine trends in immigration is to look at responses to the year-of-arrival question. The CPS asks individuals when they came to America to stay. The 2005 CPS indicates that 7.9 million immigrants (legal and illegal) settled in the United States between January 2000 and March 2005, which means that on average more than 1.5 million immigrants arrived annually in the United States. The 2000 CPS shows that 6.64 million immigrants (legal and illegal) settled in the country between 1995 and 2000.6 The difference between these numbers is statistically significant, indicating that more immigrants have arrived in the United States in the five years since 2000 than in the five years prior to 2000. The period 2000-2005 appears to be the highest five-year period of immigration in American history.

[Riggo-toni]

I'm fine with it as long as they work and pay enough taxes to pull us out of this deficit hole and allow us to honor Social Security and Medicare obligations for the next 50 years.

I agree. I'm all for increasing legal immigration, as long as more emphasis on qualifying for immigrating is based on skill and education level as opposed to family, and we strictly limit gov't benefits to non-citizens.

If you're not a terrorist and come here to work and won't collect welfare, I say welcome to America.

[chomerics]

By this quote you must feel immigration is going to slow down?

"

That number is a joke too.

It looks like we will allow about 1million a year into the country based on estimates for 10 years then a little more then 1/2 a million in 2016. So in 20 years, there will be 16million immigrants, not 75milion, not 200million, not 270 million, but 16. . .

At least that is what I have read right now.""

Since we have had about 1.5 million a yr average already.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back1405.html

Flow of New Immigrants. Another way to examine trends in immigration is to look at responses to the year-of-arrival question. The CPS asks individuals when they came to America to stay. The 2005 CPS indicates that 7.9 million immigrants (legal and illegal) settled in the United States between January 2000 and March 2005, which means that on average more than 1.5 million immigrants arrived annually in the United States. The 2000 CPS shows that 6.64 million immigrants (legal and illegal) settled in the country between 1995 and 2000.6 The difference between these numbers is statistically significant, indicating that more immigrants have arrived in the United States in the five years since 2000 than in the five years prior to 2000. The period 2000-2005 appears to be the highest five-year period of immigration in American history.

Umm they are talking about FIXING the problem, hence there will be few illegals entering the system, so your numbers are not correct either.

If someone wants to look through the bill and correct my number, please do so, but right from Sarge's post that is what I got. I am not looking into the past, as this is supposed to FIX the problem. Previous numbers don't play into this. It is based ont this poing forward. It actually DECREASES the number of illegals that can enter the system. It also falls in line assuming a 25% total population growth over the next 20 years, so there will be 370,million people in the US.

Again, please look through the bill and show me where I am wrong, I would like to find the true number as well, and I thought I had it.

[DjTj]

Steve Phillips just said on ESPN during the Orioles game that 27% of Major Leaguers are foreign born. If America's pasttime can handle it, then America's people should be able to handle it too ... or maybe we should stop giving visas to all these baseball players.

[chomerics]

Anyhow, the bottom line is that when looking at these numbers, you should keep in mind that even if we don't change the law, our baseline is 50 million over the next 20 years and that number will overcount immigrants that are simply changing their immigrations status.

Again, this is supposed to fix the problem, hence there wouldn't be that anyone coming into the country illegally. It is easy to do, but everyone is using past performance on how many will enter. We would monitor the amount of people entering the country and the borders would be secured, this is supposed to fix the problem, not exaserbate it.

[twa]

I hope you are correct,but untill the borders are secured it is useless to speculate.

[Sarge]

We still need a damn fence.

So now we give amnesty to those that are already here

We increase the numbers of those that can come here legally

We lower the standards for those coming in, so instead of recruiting hi tech workers we bring in more 7-11 workers

And we'll still have illeglas jumping the fence

Lovely:rolleyes:

[tapstaks2000]

edit: :eaglesuck :gaintsuck :dallasuck