Burgold Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Yes, I do "feel" what you're saying. You're for larceny. You're for stealing MY money to support other people, which is something I am totally against. The Government only has the right to tax me for LEGAL, CONSTITUTIONAL services, which this does not qualify as. My guess is this is why you might be against prisons too. After all, the government is stealing from you to pay for the food and lodging of criminals. This is done to protect "society" from the bullies. Criminals should all be on the street. Who says the government should be allowed to use your money to keep people captive. If the little guy can't defend themselves, if they get hurt, robbed, killed, raped, etc. its the victims fault anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Once upon a time it was against the law for anybody except rich white males who owned property to vote. Once upon a time there were colored only signs. Just cause it's law, doesn't mean its right. Granted, you'll defend the laws you agree with to the fulliest because, well, you agree with them. I don't agree with them, and regardless of what you or I believe, changes are being made to the system. I will agree with the "just because it's law doesn't mean it's right." comment. Especially in this case and with other unconstitutional programs. Unconstitutional changes are being made to the system and have since the days of Abraham Lincoln. They aren't raising taxes for this anyway, so what are you so mad about? Horsecrap!!! They just didn't include it in this bill. It will come. We're talking a $300+ Million program in year one and a $1 Billion program in year three. Where else do you think they're going to get the money to pay for it? The state can't print money, they can only steal it from the citizenry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I will agree with the "just because it's law doesn't mean it's right." comment. Especially in this case and with other unconstitutional programs. Unconstitutional changes are being made to the system and have since the days of Abraham Lincoln. Horsecrap!!! They just didn't include it in this bill. It will come. We're talking a $300+ Million program in year one and a $1 Billion program in year three. Where else do you think they're going to get the money to pay for it? The state can't print money, they can only steal it from the citizenry. You underestimate the amount of revenue these states have. Massachusetts alone had $317,798,000,000 in total gross state product in 2004. $317 billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 You underestimate the amount of revenue these states have. Massachusetts alone had $317,798,000,000 in total gross state product in 2004. $317 billion. No, it's you who underestimate the Communistwealth's desire to tax the living crap out of its citizens. There's a reason we're refered to as TAXachusetts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 My guess is this is why you might be against prisons too. After all, the government is stealing from you to pay for the food and lodging of criminals. This is done to protect "society" from the bullies. Criminals should all be on the street. Who says the government should be allowed to use your money to keep people captive. If the little guy can't defend themselves, if they get hurt, robbed, killed, raped, etc. its the victims fault anyway. No, actually the state does have the power to capture, prosecute and incarcerate criminals. What I have a problem with is my money being used for cable tv, exercise equipment and other unnecessary amenities for prisoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 No, actually the state does have the power to capture, prosecute and incarcerate criminals. What I have a problem with is my money being used for cable tv, exercise equipment and other unnecessary amenities for prisoners. The ideal mind is a dangerous mind. I agree that they should all be put to work some kind of way. Like a mild form of slavery. Having them just sit around staring into space all day is a bad idea though, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 No, it's you who underestimate the Communistwealth's desire to tax the living crap out of its citizens. There's a reason we're refered to as TAXachusetts. Is it really that big of a deal? Are you really struggling to survive because of all the heartless taxes they put upon you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Is it really that big of a deal? Are you really struggling to survive because of all the heartless taxes they put upon you? Yes it is that big of a deal. Not because it's causing a massive hardship on me, but because of the absolute lunacy of some of it, and the fact of what most of it is being used for. Let me give you some examples.... $25 fee on the State tax form to pay the 5% sales tax the state loses because most intelligent Mass. citizens go to New Hampshire (no sales tax) to purchase large/expensive items (furniture, electronics, etc...) instead of paying the Mass. tax on those items. The current 5+% income tax rate that has TWICE been voted by referrendum back to 5.0% and the legislature continues to ignore the citizens. The OPTIONAL higher 5.38% tax rate that you can choose to pay on your income tax. Why anyone would do it makes no sense to me. Then you look at the social welfare programs and other ridiculous state expenditures (can you say Big Dig?) that the legislature spends the money on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Is it really that big of a deal? Are you really struggling to survive because of all the heartless taxes they put upon you? Clearly, he is. Clearly with all the federal, state, and local taxes he doesn't have time for any down time. I mean it's not like he's spending hours a day on an internet message board. Mass_Skins, Prevention is important. If we deal with a cold before it becomes life threatening not only are we a healthier society, but we are saving money. With inmates, if you could provide them with better skills and education this gives them an opportunity other than crime to take. Some will take it. Others won't. On average, society is improved. Personally, for the lifers and those on death row, I think they should be used in medical testing. We'd get far more accurate and timely knowledge about humans react to different experimental medicines and what the side effects are. I think if the criminals are so horrific we never think they deserve the light of day again that they still should find a way to benefit the society that they have harmed. A healthier society benefits us all, therefore, providing health services to all makes sence. It reduces the chance of you from being contaminated and your family from getting sick. Now, had you said that you mistrust the governments ability to manage this effectively, I could see that, but as we all know Modern conservatives worship at the altar of huge government. They have expanded government almost beyond recognition. So, we know that modern conservatives trust bureacrasies to function well and efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I don't believe you understood what I just asked you, Mass, and I'm not going to waste anymore time trying to see if you'll figure it out. I'm going out to do teenage things. :peace1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Renegade, Why aren't you in school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 They aren't raising taxes for this anyway, so what are you so mad about? So the 365 million over the next two years from the federal government isnt taxes? And the 700+ million that its going to cost the state isnt going to be made up? Or the 600 million in copay's the companies are not going to get isnt going to be passed on? Lets not jump to the conclusion that they arent raising taxes for this: They haven't funded it and probably have no idea how much its really going to cost. Think Big Dig planning vs. Big Dig ending price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 A healthier society benefits us all, therefore, providing health services to all makes sence. Agreed and that's why it's important that the state stay out of the business of healthcare. Lives are at stake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Agreed and that's why it's important that the state stay out of the business of healthcare. Lives are at stake Not to mention how many people will goto the hospital for any old little thing. How many hypochondriacs will goto the hospital now that there is no cost for them? All the small, and false illnesses, and problems will keep Doctors from seeing patients that actually NEED them, putting their life in jeopardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 Not to mention how many people will goto the hospital for any old little thing. How many hypochondriacs will goto the hospital now that there is no cost for them? All the small, and false illnesses, and problems will keep Doctors from seeing patients that actually NEED them, putting their life in jeopardy. And your not talking about small numbers: Total Number of E.R. Visits Last Year - 75 million Number of Unnecessary E.R. Visits - 41 million Average E.R. Visit Cost - $360.00 Total Cost of Unnecessary E.R. Visits - $14.7 billion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 And your not talking about small numbers:Total Number of E.R. Visits Last Year - 75 million Number of Unnecessary E.R. Visits - 41 million Average E.R. Visit Cost - $360.00 Total Cost of Unnecessary E.R. Visits - $14.7 billion Exactly. Personally, if I'm in Mass., and I'm playing a Rugby match, and god forbid, one of my teammates or I get seriously injured, and we can't see a Dr. due to some moron who has a hangnail, I think I'd end up going to jail for murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Just a further proof that this is the COMMUNISTwealth of Massachusetts :rotflmao: :rotflmao: Seriously, this is GREAT for the underprivilaged, and i have absolutely NO problem what so ever making sure everyone in this state has health care. What is it going to cost me as a person? $200/year? So that is what, like $4 a week? Yea, I can deal with it. on top of it, they are paying this and NOT increasing taxes yet again, my state shows it is a class above the fray. Kudos to the Mass Lawmakers and MSF, if you don't like it, why life here Isn't that what everyone tells me about my country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 :rotflmao: :rotflmao:Seriously, this is GREAT for the underprivilaged, That's what they want you to believe. Damn you big brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 The thing is, we wouldn't ask. Nor would we take the money if it was offered... either privately or via the government. I value my money over your life EVERY SINGLE TIME. And right there is what seperates you from the rest of the world. You value something of paper WAY WAY to much. Money is great, but all the money in the world will not buy you happiness, and judging by the tone of your posts, you are definately not a happy person. Got a lot of pent up agrivation inside that head of yours. you should probably take your 12-gauge and go out to shoot something, that will make you feel better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Surpised to learn that Mass doesn't make its citizens pay the difference between big ticket items (like Cars) bought out of state and registered in state within 90 days. California requires you to pay the difference, and you must register a car within 2 weeks of moving to the state. I faced the additiional tax when I moved here from Virginia Beach (I had just bought a new car). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 That's what they want you to believe. Damn you big brother. lol. I know your not on the state sponser of health care, but they end up paying for it anyway. If there is a better solution, I am all ears. Look at it this way, the federal government is subsidizing Walmart Employees health care by allowing them on welfare, how is this any different? In fact, this health plan should benifit employers, as they are not mandated to supply their employees with health care. I am for having every child in this state taken care of in terms of health care by our government. Why is it the childs fault their parents are poor? It goes back to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness with me, and I think EVERYONE who can not afford health insurance but is actually working should have it. If you are contributing to society, and working at a full time job, then you deserve health care. Simple as that. It is not the employees fault the employer is exploiting them for their own personal gain, but that is par for the course in this era of corporatism. The pendulum is starting to swing, but unfortunately it is going to swing too far to the other side. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 And your not talking about small numbers:Total Number of E.R. Visits Last Year - 75 million Number of Unnecessary E.R. Visits - 41 million Average E.R. Visit Cost - $360.00 Total Cost of Unnecessary E.R. Visits - $14.7 billion Honesty, don't you believe the number of "unnessary E.R. visits" would drop substantially if people had health insurance? All the people who use the ER because they think it is the only place where they can get health care would be able to see a family doc or go to a different venue. Number of unnecessary visits doesn't necessarily equal number of delusional visits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Honesty, don't you believe the number of "unnessary E.R. visits" would drop substantially if people had health insurance? All the people who use the ER because they think it is the only place where they can get health care would be able to see a family doc or go to a different venue. Number of unnecessary visits doesn't necessarily equal number of delusional visits. No it wouldn't drop, if there was free health insurance for all, it would probably sky rocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 How are unnecessary ER visits defined? Who defines them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Prevention is important. If we deal with a cold before it becomes life threatening not only are we a healthier society, but we are saving money. With inmates, if you could provide them with better skills and education this gives them an opportunity other than crime to take. Some will take it. Others won't. On average, society is improved. The thing I don't think you're understanding is that I don't believe it's the GOVERNMENT'S place to stop the cold before it starts or to provide those job skills for the potential criminal. That is the job of the family, the church and private organizations inside the local community. A healthier society benefits us all, therefore, providing health services to all makes sense. It reduces the chance of you from being contaminated and your family from getting sick. Now, had you said that you mistrust the governments ability to manage this effectively, I could see that, but as we all know Modern conservatives worship at the altar of huge government. They have expanded government almost beyond recognition. So, we know that modern conservatives trust bureacrasies to function well and efficiently. I don't want the government worrying about my personal health. I mistrust the government's ability to do ANYTHING correctly at this point. No matter WHO is running it, Republican or Democrat. Most importantly, I still cannot find a state or federal Constitutional mandate for taxation for this purpose (and many others). Therefore whether it's a good thing or not is totally irrelevant.... it's unconstitutional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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