Mass. Lawmakers OK Mandatory Health Bill

[Burgold]

hmm... how about...

The modern conservative is like the old French Aristocrasy--

Advisor: The poor are starving. They don't even have bread to eat.

French: Well, let them eat cake.

Lucky Devil: heh, heh, heh, the poor will never even notice the rat poison I mixed in with the flour.

[Burgold]

Mass,

though it has caused me pain several times and it surely isn't evenly or fairly applied I think the Golden Rule works pretty well as a compass. For me, reducing the meaning of life to dollars and cents and "what's in it for me" is just too unsatisfying. I am not sure if that's the way you live, but that's what I hear. As Americans, as humans we have a duty to each other. Even President Bush, included in his reasons to invade Iraq the need to stop Sadam's human attrocities and many worthy conservatives and liberals do speak in terms of service. That service, as you said, can come from many places... in my worldview, the government is not excluded from the opportunity and obligation to help fill in the gaps.

[endzone_dave]

Advisor: The poor are starving. They don't even have bread to eat.

Dan Snyder: $8 dollars isn't really that much to charge someone for a slice of bread. I have overhead you know.

[luckydevil]

Lucky Devil: heh, heh, heh, the poor will never even notice the rat poison I mixed in with the flour.

damn.........ouch...............kudos

[Midnight Judges]

Good for Mass. It's only a matter of time before every state in the Union follows suit. I know some on this board think kidneys should go to the highest bidder. I tend to think in a civilized modern society, people will not starve or die from preventable illnesses like they do in Africa.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Mass,

though it has caused me pain several times and it surely isn't evenly or fairly applied I think the Golden Rule works pretty well as a compass. For me, reducing the meaning of life to dollars and cents and "what's in it for me" is just too unsatisfying. I am not sure if that's the way you live, but that's what I hear. As Americans, as humans we have a duty to each other. Even President Bush, included in his reasons to invade Iraq the need to stop Sadam's human attrocities and many worthy conservatives and liberals do speak in terms of service. That service, as you said, can come from many places... in my worldview, the government is not excluded from the opportunity and obligation to help fill in the gaps.

Burgold,

First off, please realize that I'm not trying to tell you or anyone else how to live their lives. My life works for me. It may not work for you or anyone else in the world, but it does work for me.

The problem with the "Golden Rule" as a basis for life, is that it's like Communism, it only works in a perfect environment. It doesn't work in the real world. You said it yourself.... you've gotten burned by it.

You're close on what I believe. Rather than "dollars and sense" it's more "investment vs. return". How much am I putting into the activity versus how much I get out of it. I'm not sure if that makes any sense to you.

As Americans we have an INDIVIDUAL duty to each other. We have a duty to our friends, family members and the members of our community to do what we can to help. That duty is a private thing, though. Not a public one. The Government doesn't have that same duty on a Federal level. In most places it doesn't even on a State level. It's a grassroots thing. Not a bureaucracy thing.

Yes, the elected officials of this country exist to serve the citizens who elected them. That doesn't mean that they have the responsibility or right to enact unconstitutional measures simply because their constituents want it.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Good for Mass. It's only a matter of time before every state in the Union follows suit.

Yep. We tend to export our insanity and immorality from here in Massachusetts almost as often as New York and California.

I know some on this board think kidneys should go to the highest bidder. I tend to think in a civilized modern society, people will not starve or die from preventable illnesses like they do in Africa.

I'm all for the "people will not starve or die from preventable illnesses like they do in Africa" thing. Just so long as it's individuals and private agencies, NOT government agencies and funds doing it.

[chomerics]

Let's get one thing straight real quick.... There is no Right to medical insurance or health care.

Ummmm, you do realize you are 100% wrong. . . there is a RIGHT for health care for everyone in Mass now :laugh: :rotflmao: :laugh:

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Ummmm, you do realize you are 100% wrong. . . there is a RIGHT for health care for everyone in Mass now :laugh: :rotflmao: :laugh:

As I have commented in the past.... I do not place myself under the auspices of any unconstitutional or immoral law.

This one doesn't really affect me all that much, but if it did, I would be looking for a way around it.

[chomerics]

chom, what have the underprivledged ever done for you that you're willing to give them an ADDITIONAL $200 per year (and I bet it will end up being a lot more than that)??? Taxes WILL be going up for this. Give it some time. ESPECIALLY if the program doesn't work perfectly right from the start. The residents of this state continuously elect a MURDERER and a TRAITOR to the US Congress, so the idea that "class" exists anywhere in this state is an absolute joke.

First, the underprivilaged have done a LOT for me. They clean my streets, pick up my garbage, serve me food, clean my clothes, wash my car etc. etc. To even INSINUATE the underprivilaged do nothing for society is a complete joke. They do MUCH MORE for society then you or I do because they are doing jobs we WON'T do. They provide services we rely on daily, just so you know.

As I mentioned earlier, if I could find a comparable job in a comparable environment/area for comparable pay in the Southeastern area of the country I would be there. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find one as of yet.

You sit there and biatch and moan about our state, yet you are reaping the benifits of a "liberal" state. You kids are well educated, you have very little crime, you salary is one of the top in the nation, and you have access to the best schools and healthcare, so why don't you look around and appreciate what you have insead of complaining about it?

Seriously, you think CHURCHES are supposed to take up the slack? Please, we are yet again the leaders in the country, and we will have to show the rest of the US how to make it work, just as we did with Gay marriage. People can not believe in it themselves, but you can not deny the success rate they have had when statistics are used. This will pan out the same and kudos to our law makers, I am psyched.

[Burgold]

Don't think we'll ever meet eye to eye on most political issues, but it just seems to me that if the government can't serve its people during their period of crisis that the government is of no use. Again, I realize even writing this that you will disagree or define crisis much differently, but I thought I'd throw the thought out there

[chomerics]

Hey, I value the little metal stuff as much as the paper stuff. Don't forget that. I've discussed in the past that happiness is not something I concern myself with. If it means I get to keep more of my money, I don't really give a care who doesn't get to see a doctor, goes hungry, or freezes to death in a cardboard box under the bridge.

Unfortunately, I have way too much respect for the members of the Massachusetts State Police stationed at the State House to do that, because right now the only suitable targets I can come up with are there most of the time.

:laugh:

I was talking about shooting a broken down car to take out some frustration. . . you know, shooting the old milkjug with a 30-06 always puts a smile on your face. I don't know you personally, but I get the impression you enjoy it, so it was just a sugestion

[chomerics]

How about...?

The modern conservative is like the old French Aristocrasy--

Advisor: The poor are starving. They don't even have bread to eat.

French: Well, let them eat cake.

American Conservative: You got cake? Give me the damn cake!

:point2sky: :notworthy :laugh: You owe me a keyboard Burgold Toooo Funny

[Mass_SkinsFan]

First, the underprivilaged have done a LOT for me. They clean my streets, pick up my garbage, serve me food, clean my clothes, wash my car etc. etc. To even INSINUATE the underprivilaged do nothing for society is a complete joke. They do MUCH MORE for society then you or I do because they are doing jobs we WON'T do. They provide services we rely on daily, just so you know.

I think we have a seriously different definition of underprivledged, chom. I'm talking about the unemployed, disabled, etc.... You seem to be talking about anyone not making $50K a year or more. That's a whole different ballpark.

You sit there and biatch and moan about our state, yet you are reaping the benifits of a "liberal" state. You kids are well educated, you have very little crime, you salary is one of the top in the nation, and you have access to the best schools and healthcare, so why don't you look around and appreciate what you have insead of complaining about it?.

I reap very few benefits from this state. Most of your list doesn't apply to me, to be totally honest. Especially since a fair number of those things are not necessarily caused by the government. I don't want to get into a discussion about the good or bad points of Massachusetts. Obviously you like the way the state is run and I definitely don't. Neither of us is going to change the other's mind so it's a pointless waste of time to discuss it.

Seriously, you think CHURCHES are supposed to take up the slack? Please, we are yet again the leaders in the country, and we will have to show the rest of the US how to make it work, just as we did with Gay marriage. People can not believe in it themselves, but you can not deny the success rate they have had when statistics are used. This will pan out the same and kudos to our law makers, I am psyched.

Churches, private charity organizations, and individuals. I don't really want to get into the gay marriage discussion. I don't support the law myself but it doesn't affect me too much personally. If I was a business owner, I'd probably have a much more resentful reaction to it. Like that law, I see this one as immoral and wrong. Obviously you see it differntly. Good for you.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

:laugh:

I was talking about shooting a broken down car to take out some frustration. . . you know, shooting the old milkjug with a 30-06 always puts a smile on your face. I don't know you personally, but I get the impression you enjoy it, so it was just a sugestion

I'm not so much into rifles. Pistols mostly and shotguns a little. Self-defense style shooting, not plinking.

[Renegade7]

Renegade,

Why aren't you in school?

Long story...

[chomerics]

I think we have a seriously different definition of underprivledged, chom. I'm talking about the unemployed, disabled, etc.... You seem to be talking about anyone not making $50K a year or more. That's a whole different ballpark.

yes, I think the definitions we live by are quite different, and I am not talking about people making under $50K per say, but people struggling to make a living. I would say under $25K in Boston area (even though I believe the poverty level is like $45K for locality adjustment). I think anyone who works for a living should be able to have a roof, food and medicine. I am also talking about WORKERS and people who can't work because of a physical disibility, not just a schmuck living with mom playing playstation II and getting stoned all day.

I reap very few benefits from this state. Most of your list doesn't apply to me, to be totally honest. Especially since a fair number of those things are not necessarily caused by the government. I don't want to get into a discussion about the good or bad points of Massachusetts. Obviously you like the way the state is run and I definitely don't. Neither of us is going to change the other's mind so it's a pointless waste of time to discuss it.

Well, your salary is directly related to how our government is run, so it does effect you. We have VERY low business taxes (in spite of prevelant opinion of the state) and it brings in companies. We are the intellectual capitol of America, so we will always have out pick of the best and the brightest the US has to offer. These kids will run our companies and make the state thrive. We have low poverty, crime, people on welfare, homeless and uninsured, and we are at the top end of positive factors: schools, health care, jobs, unemployment, taxes, services, etc. We do FAR FAR more with our money then most states do, and we get far more services. We pay for the top 25% of our graduating HS Seniors to go to college on our tab. When you have a liberal run government that is run right you end up with some incredible services, and middle of the road taxes. Our taxes are NOT going up and it has already shown how we will pay for it. Why don't you give it time before you say you know it is going to cost us an arm and a leg. Your side was saying that gay marriage was going to cause the downfall of society, and I look around and all I see is happy families of gay people, who have rights. Even the lawmakers said they made a mistake when they voted against it because the "backlash" or downfall of society was not seen.

You may not like our state, but I am mighty prous of it, and what we have accomplished. Once we eliminated that rotton SOB Finneran (yes he was a liberal and I HATED him) we finally started to get things done, and done right. I applaud my congressmen and senators for their actions, and I support them wholely.

Like that law, I see this one as immoral and wrong. Obviously you see it differntly. Good for you.

It blows my mind how taking care of people is "immoral and wrong", because it is against the so-called "values" christians hold dear. Do you not see the glaring hypocrisy in this way of thinging? How can you support a party which professes their "moral fiber" and advocates more involvement with the church, when they are completely against actually helping people? It is a massive contradiction, but I am just so glad I live in this state. It makes me proud to be a democrat

[Mass_SkinsFan]

yes, I think the definitions we live by are quite different, and I am not talking about people making under $50K per say, but people struggling to make a living. I would say under $25K in Boston area (even though I believe the poverty level is like $45K for locality adjustment). I think anyone who works for a living should be able to have a roof, food and medicine. I am also talking about WORKERS and people who can't work because of a physical disibility, not just a schmuck living with mom playing playstation II and getting stoned all day.

Yes our definitions are quite different. I grew up in a household and society that pointed out to my brothers and myself that "minimum wage" was not a LIVING wage. It never has been and never will be. That was meant to be a reminder to us that we needed to get the education and do the other things necessary to ensure we were never trying to make minimum wage a living wage. These people have the opportunity to make their lives better. In many (not all) cases they either have made decisions in the past that now limit their ability to make a living wage (convictions, dropping out of school, etc..) or are doing things now that limit themselves. It is not the government's job to provide for these people. I will never agree that it is.

Well, your salary is directly related to how our government is run, so it does effect you. We have VERY low business taxes (in spite of prevelant opinion of the state) and it brings in companies. We are the intellectual capitol of America, so we will always have out pick of the best and the brightest the US has to offer. These kids will run our companies and make the state thrive. We have low poverty, crime, people on welfare, homeless and uninsured, and we are at the top end of positive factors: schools, health care, jobs, unemployment, taxes, services, etc. We do FAR FAR more with our money then most states do, and we get far more services. We pay for the top 25% of our graduating HS Seniors to go to college on our tab. When you have a liberal run government that is run right you end up with some incredible services, and middle of the road taxes. Our taxes are NOT going up and it has already shown how we will pay for it. Why don't you give it time before you say you know it is going to cost us an arm and a leg. Your side was saying that gay marriage was going to cause the downfall of society, and I look around and all I see is happy families of gay people, who have rights. Even the lawmakers said they made a mistake when they voted against it because the "backlash" or downfall of society was not seen.

Gee, is Rt 495 paved with gold bricks and leading to an Emerald City in your part of the state? We're never going to agree on the way the state should be run. Those services you seem so proud of, I see largely as a very expensive waste of MY money. Especially when they are directly against my view of how the world should work. Whether this new program increases or decreases taxes, I will be against it on it's immorality. The same way I will always be against Gay Marriage. Those legislators who voted against gay marriage were the only ones who could ever have gotten a vote from me, at least until they started playing politics and embracing the law. Now they're all worthless scum so far as I'm concerned.

You may not like our state, but I am mighty proud of it, and what we have accomplished. Once we eliminated that rotton SOB Finneran (yes he was a liberal and I HATED him) we finally started to get things done, and done right. I applaud my congressmen and senators for their actions, and I support them wholely.

I really think that there are a LARGE number of others who need to be run out of the State Government (our current AG being on the top of that list) before we will ever even start to see things done right in Boston.

It blows my mind how taking care of people is "immoral and wrong", because it is against the so-called "values" christians hold dear. Do you not see the glaring hypocrisy in this way of thinging? How can you support a party which professes their "moral fiber" and advocates more involvement with the church, when they are completely against actually helping people? It is a massive contradiction, but I am just so glad I live in this state. It makes me proud to be a democrat

Individuals and private organizations taking care of people is fine. It's when the GOVERNMENT gets involved that it becomes unconstitutional and immoral. I am not a Christian. I grew up Christian, but no longer would consider myself one in any form. I am also not a Republican. I'm a Conservative.

What true "Conservatives" are against is the unconstitutional expansion of government powers. Especially into matters that are not any of the government's business... which marriage, social welfare and health care are all examples of.

[Winslowalrob]

Interesting test, lets see if it actually works.