Gamebreaker Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Look at their stats dude.Over the past 2 seasons. Springs (30 games) 99 Tackles 6 Int's 15 Pass Deflect Henry (27 games) 106 Tackles 7 Int's 19 Pass Deflect Aaron Glenn is a proven player! His stats over the last 2 years.... 84 Tackles (only 29 in '05, cuz he's our nickel back) 9 Int's 18 Pass Deflects. Carlos Rogers only had 42 Tackles 2 Int's 2 Pass Deflects (Newman had 17 his rookie year) Since when do stats ever tell the whole story when it comes to defensive players? Did the stats show you had badly Glenn got embarassed by Santana Moss? Carlos Rogers has yet to get beaten that badly as a pro, and he's only entering his second season. You would think the rookie would get burned that badly, and not the 10+ year veteran. Glenn is not better than Rogers. Futhermore, Anthony Henry was owned by Brandon Lloyd. No reciever had a great game aganist Springs. Your bias is showing in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvan1 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 What about Sam Madison?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboyuptx Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 His weakness is covering anybody with any speed. Your list is laughable. Take off the homer glasses for a moment and realize that stats don't mean jack-bone when it comes to CBs. You don't want your CBs making tackles because generally that means their guy has just caught the ball. Any list that has Anthony Henry even in the same ballpark as Shawn Springs is dismissed. Riddle me this, Batman. If your secondary has 3 of the top 7 in the division why were the Skins better against the pass? I find this more remarkable considering I am certain that you feel that the Cowboys have a better set of LBs and a better D-line. Why did Dallas give up more TD passes than it had Interceptions? Since Dallas had two more sacks than the Skins it certainly couldn't have been because of pressure. I forgot the Giants signed Madison and totally forgot about Sheppard, had I remembered those 2 Glenn probably would've been more like 9 or 10. IMO there's no doubt, Glenn's the best nickel CB in the NFCE. Henry only played 12 games (really only 11) last season, we would've finished higher than y'all in pass defense, if Henry had been healthy all year. As it were, the Skins finished ranked 10th in pass defense (192.6 yds. per game), the Cows finished 11th (192.7), one tenth of a yard! So there's your answer, Robin. Since you brought it up... Dallas better LB's than the skins ??.. no way! I think our d-line is a little ahead of yours, but still needs to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovellj Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I forgot the Giants signed Madison and totally forgot about Sheppard, had I remembered those 2 Glenn probably would've been more like 9 or 10. IMO there's no doubt, Glenn's the best nickel CB in the NFCE.Henry only played 12 games (really only 11) last season, we would've finished higher than y'all in pass defense, if Henry had been healthy all year. As it were, the Skins finished ranked 10th in pass defense (192.6 yds. per game), the Cows finished 11th (192.7), one tenth of a yard! So there's your answer, Robin. Since you brought it up... Dallas better LB's than the skins ??.. no way! I think our d-line is a little ahead of yours, but still needs to improve. That shouldn't have mattered though. According to your list, your nickel is better than our starting #2. With Henry in all year, you should have blown us away in pass defense...even had Glenn started all year, according to your rankings, you should have been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboyuptx Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Since when do stats ever tell the whole story when it comes to defensive players? Did the stats show you had badly Glenn got embarassed by Santana Moss? Carlos Rogers has yet to get beaten that badly as a pro, and he's only entering his second season. You would think the rookie would get burned that badly, and not the 10+ year veteran. Glenn is not better than Rogers.Futhermore, Anthony Henry was owned by Brandon Lloyd. No reciever had a great game aganist Springs. Your bias is showing in this thread. EVERY CB gets toasted from time to time. Every CB is going to have off games, or a day when his opponent gets the better of him. It's the nature of the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Weirdo Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I'm not sure where all this Shledon Brown love is coming from, he's not that tight. If you ask me, Springs and Newman are the two best. Right now, with his experience I'd give Springs the edge but not for much longer. Hilarious. Sheldon is a beast. Lito gets all the glory because he goes for a pick almost 75 percent of the time. Sheldon spends his time dominating and covering his opponent. Not only that he's a very sure fire tackler, too. Not a lot of balls get thrown Sheldon's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboyuptx Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 That shouldn't have mattered though. According to your list, your nickel is better than our starting #2. With Henry in all year, you should have blown us away in pass defense...even had Glenn started all year, according to your rankings, you should have been better. Yeah, Glenn's better than a rookie who hasn't proven anything in the NFL and he didn't have a stellar season, even by rookie standards. Rogers showed he can hold his own..... Glenn's proven he can do a little more than hold his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovellj Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Rogers had a very solid rookie campaign, only making two notable errors (one against Arizona and the dropped INT [which was difficult anways] against Seattle) the entire time he played. The fact he didn't see the field early was more due to injuries and Williams hesitancy to place rookies in starting positions right away. But you still didn't deny my point. According to your CB rankings, there is no logical reason as to why Dallas could have finished below the 'Skins in pass defense. I don't think your list is terrible, but you vastly overrate your secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 This thread amuses me. A Cowboy fan comes in and puts up a reasonable discussion, but no one here is really willing to participate in the reasonable discussion, instead allowing their blind fanboy homerism to just discount a perfectly reasonable argument. The original poster is showing no more homerism than the average Redskins fan who posts here. I know, I know...this is a Redskins site. But it's still annoying because, as Hybrid stated, it takes away from the actual football discussion. Probably half the posts here are no-thought, homeristic, post-count-increasing crap. You know what guys, I've been on this site since its creation. It's now my JOB to keep people from talking like dopes, so believe me when I say I have a lot more experience in dealing with antagonistic homerism on this board than either of you. And let me tell you that in that experience the way to go about improving the board is NOT to go off on a condescending rant telling everyone how stupid they are. Believe it or not, that's not part of the solution. If you are TRULY interested in good football talk, simply contribute an intelligent, insightful post. It's amazing how effective leading by example can be sometimes. I really wish more poeple would try it in favor of the sanctimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Henry only played 12 games (really only 11) last season, we would've finished higher than y'all in pass defense, if Henry had been healthy all year. As it were, the Skins finished ranked 10th in pass defense (192.6 yds. per game), the Cows finished 11th (192.7), one tenth of a yard! So there's your answer, Robin. Are you under the impression that Rogers and Springs were healthy for a full 16 last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangars Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I like Glenn. He should cover Santana more often. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Weirdo Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Are you under the impression that Rogers and Springs were healthy for a full 16 last season? Hasn't Springs been injured the past two seasons? I remember he got hurt during the Eagles game at FedEx two years ago. Wasn't he hurt this year?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Henry only played 12 games (really only 11) last season, we would've finished higher than y'all in pass defense, if Henry had been healthy all year. As it were, the Skins finished ranked 10th in pass defense (192.6 yds. per game), the Cows finished 11th (192.7), one tenth of a yard! So there's your answer, Robin.Since you brought it up... Dallas better LB's than the skins ??.. no way! I think our d-line is a little ahead of yours, but still needs to improve. That's a nice theory if it were based in fact but in the games that Henry missed you actually were much better against the pass. With Henry 197 yds passing allowed Without Henry 181 yds passing allowed And it wasn't the competition either. The four teams that you guys played without Henry averaged 215 yds passing a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeenzfan Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 This thread amuses me. A Cowboy fan comes in and puts up a reasonable discussion, but no one here is really willing to participate in the reasonable discussion, instead allowing their blind fanboy homerism to just discount a perfectly reasonable argument. Does anyone realize that this entire website is blind fanboy homerism on Redskins' fans parts, with little to no real discussion at any time. All people do is just extoll the "greatness" of the Redskins and how everything is going to be perfect and we have the best 53 players in the league. Come on guys, have a little perspective. Enter in the discussion or move on to another thread and pat each other on the back there. Oh and by the way, I am a die hard 'Skins fan, but sometimes our own fans just irk me. There are other people exactly like us out there rooting for other teams. Not all non-'Skins fans are idiots just because they aren't 'Skins fans. I've lurked on this board for months before joining, so my post count is not indicative of my knowledge of the board. Oh and to add on topic content: I agree with putting Rogers fairly low on the list since he only has one year of partial starting under his belt. The hard part about using stats as a barometer for greatness as a corner is that alot of times corners just don't get many opportunities to make plays. I wish there was a stat that detailed the percentage of time "thrown at" over all compared to total plays, and another detailing percentage of plays "thrown at" where the corner makes a play (pass defense, interception etc.) That would be a more useful stat. Where exactly do you see the perfectly reasonable argument in this? Also there have been several discussions with cowboys fans that have been reasonable. This post got what it deserves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I forgot the Giants signed Madison and totally forgot about Sheppard, had I remembered those 2 Glenn probably would've been more like 9 or 10. IMO there's no doubt, Glenn's the best nickel CB in the NFCE.Henry only played 12 games (really only 11) last season, we would've finished higher than y'all in pass defense, if Henry had been healthy all year. As it were, the Skins finished ranked 10th in pass defense (192.6 yds. per game), the Cows finished 11th (192.7), one tenth of a yard! So there's your answer, Robin. Since you brought it up... Dallas better LB's than the skins ??.. no way! I think our d-line is a little ahead of yours, but still needs to improve. Since you're using the injury excuse, you should also factor in that Springs played the last 3 games with a hamstring injury and a calf injury earlier in the season. Rogers was in and out of the line-up all year with injuries. Injuries is no excuse for why our secondary ranked higher than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Are you under the impression that Rogers and Springs were healthy for a full 16 last season? :applause::applause: Exactly! Springs and Rogers were both out with injuries for a bit there. You can not seriously put a number 3 back in front of a number 2. Carlos played awesome last year, and this year I think he will really break out. To put all of your corner backs in the top 7 is kind of ridiculous. I would put Newman in the top 4 along with springs Brown and Madison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboyuptx Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Rogers had a very solid rookie campaign, only making two notable errors (one against Arizona and the dropped INT [which was difficult anways] against Seattle) the entire time he played. The fact he didn't see the field early was more due to injuries and Williams hesitancy to place rookies in starting positions right away. But you still didn't deny my point. According to your CB rankings, there is no logical reason as to why Dallas could have finished below the 'Skins in pass defense. I don't think your list is terrible, but you vastly overrate your secondary. I feel I've already addressed that issue.... first of all, its a tenth of a yard difference.. Henry got hurt.... Glenn moved to the starting lineup, which meant that Reeves or Jones had to play the Nickel (and they kinda stink). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I feel I've already addressed that issue.... first of all, its a tenth of a yard difference.. Henry got hurt.... Glenn moved to the starting lineup, which meant that Reeves or Jones had to play the Nickel (and they kinda stink). But you are not responding to the argument that Springs and Rogers were hurt this year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I forgot the Giants signed Madison and totally forgot about Sheppard, had I remembered those 2 Glenn probably would've been more like 9 or 10. IMO there's no doubt, Glenn's the best nickel CB in the NFCE.Henry only played 12 games (really only 11) last season, we would've finished higher than y'all in pass defense, if Henry had been healthy all year. As it were, the Skins finished ranked 10th in pass defense (192.6 yds. per game), the Cows finished 11th (192.7), one tenth of a yard! So there's your answer, Robin. Since you brought it up... Dallas better LB's than the skins ??.. no way! I think our d-line is a little ahead of yours, but still needs to improve. Ok, well Harris missed at least 2-3 games. Springs missed at least that many. Rogers missed time in camp and later in the season with injuries so don't act like the 4 game injury to Henry is why our pass D was rated better than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboyuptx Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 :applause::applause:Exactly! Springs and Rogers were both out with injuries for a bit there. You can not seriously put a number 3 back in front of a number 2. Carlos played awesome last year, and this year I think he will really break out. To put all of your corner backs in the top 7 is kind of ridiculous. I would put Newman in the top 4 along with springs Brown and Madison. It doesn't matter if he's a #2 or #3 CB, at this point in time.... he's still better than Rogers. Are all you dudes real young or something? Dont you know who Aaron Glenn is? There was a time not all that long ago where he was thought to be a top 10 CB, in the entire NFL. In his prime many people likened him to a guy you may have heard of... Darrell Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboyuptx Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Ok, well Harris missed at least 2-3 games. Springs missed at least that many. Rogers missed time in camp and later in the season with injuries so don't act like the 4 game injury to Henry is why our pass D was rated better than yours. Come on!!!!! ITS ONE TENTH OF A YARD!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 It doesn't matter if he's a #2 or #3 CB, at this point in time.... he's still better than Rogers. Are all you dudes real young or something? Dont you know who Aaron Glenn is? There was a time not all that long ago where he was thought to be a top 10 CB, in the entire NFL. In his prime many people likened him to a guy you may have heard of... Darrell Green. Hmmmm.....that's funny, a lot of people once considered Springs a top 3 corner in Seattly but then he was hurt for most of 2 years. He comes to DC, stays mostly healthy and is a shutdown corner again but nobody remembers how good they thought he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 It doesn't matter if he's a #2 or #3 CB, at this point in time.... he's still better than Rogers. Are all you dudes real young or something? Dont you know who Aaron Glenn is? There was a time not all that long ago where he was thought to be a top 10 CB, in the entire NFL. In his prime many people likened him to a guy you may have heard of... Darrell Green. There is a difference between where someone is in their prime, and say, now. And you are still not responding to what people have pointed out about our CBs that were injured which takes away from your argument of your passing rank. I am curious as to your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Taylor's Legal Team Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 how did will demps creep into the original top ten list, last time i saw him play was at M and T stadium... as a starting safety, all the sudden he's gone to the giants and is a top ten corner for our division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 It doesn't matter if he's a #2 or #3 CB, at this point in time.... he's still better than Rogers. Are all you dudes real young or something? Dont you know who Aaron Glenn is? There was a time not all that long ago where he was thought to be a top 10 CB, in the entire NFL. In his prime many people likened him to a guy you may have heard of... Darrell Green. No you didn't!!! Now its on!!! :redpunch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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