Chopper Dave Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Actually, I agree with you. I think if ANYONE bears blame and responsibility in addition to the vermin, it's the publishers.But certainly not the artist. Fair enough. If I said the artist, I misspoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSW Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Why do people burn the flag? Why do people make fun of Christians?I just happen to be completely tired of walking on eggshells around a violent hateful group. F@#k em. If they really want the war, we should give it to them. And where exactly would you be in this war? What sacrifices would you make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashmowf Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 So if someone came up to you and just started punching you in the face, tried to give you the shocker, etc... you wouldn't do anything "cause nothing says violence is wrong like more violence"? Ha Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....lol....good grief man, why can't he just get punched in the face why does he have to get the shocker too..... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Why do people burn the flag? Why do people make fun of Christians?I just happen to be completely tired of walking on eggshells around a violent hateful group. F@#k em. If they really want the war, we should give it to them. I agree with you--and at no point in this thread did I state that I wanted to walk on eggshells. But I don't think you really want war--would you want to go to war, to fight and die because you are tired of walking on eggshells or is there some other solution? Again, do you believe in catalysts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I just dont think one needs to be an film critic to know a crappy film when he sees it. Like i said, i agree with you. Totally and completely. I just said that you were wrong in asserting that you understand these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I dont want the type of war we are fighting now. Im more of a hawk than that. I would have started by having our guards kill those attacking our embassy this weekend. No ?s, No warnings. Catalysts in terms of what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 That's an ignorant thing to say. Just because you don't understand that kind of mentality doesn't mean you can just make blanket statements like that.. CD... I'm pretty far from enlightened on world issues, but I have done a bit of traveling, and I've lived in two different foreign countries for extended periods. You know what? Sometimes it is just exactly what it is. Barbaric, un-enlightened behavior. Trust me, rednecks and bigots don't just live in the US. Someone like yourself who had the privelege of growing up in this country and being exposed to several different cultures, getting the best education, and learning to be tolerant of viewpoints that are not your own... the tendancy is to apply that logic towards other things we don't understand, such as the current muslim problem. I applaud you for your efforts, I really do... but I think you are misguided in this attempt. These are not rational people. These people are not enlightened. These people do not need to be understood... there is no understanding them. Just know that they are ignorant and afraid. That is all you need to know. You take any one of those rioting anit-semetic anti-Christian Muslim ****s and slap white skin on them and a dukes of hazard Tshirt... guess what they become overnight? A stupid redneck... Nothing more, nothing less. Not even worthy of an effort to be understood. I think this is where 'liberal' America has fallen off the wagon on this issue. We don't need to 'understand' why they are pissed. No more than we need to work to understand why the KKK riots. It is because they are ignorant, and we should not change what we are doing to accomodate that :2cents: (and I'm not picking on you CD, so don't misunderstand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I dont want the type of war we are fighting now. Im more of a hawk than that.I would have started by having our guards kill those attacking our embassy this weekend. No ?s, No warnings. Catalysts in terms of what? Do you believe that catalysts exist such that one thing can have an effect and/or cause a reaction on another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I am saying: 1. If we know these people are pricks, why are we going to piss them off more? So what about the neo-Nazi's and KKK contingent in the U.S.? Should we be working as a society to not piss them off more? The only way we don't piss off the muslim world is to discontinue our existence. That should be clear to everyone. There is no accomodating extremism. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 it is time for the American people to realize that the West has lost this war. We are on our own. We do have Japan, Israel, Australia and Poland on our side. Other than that, Western Europe will be Mohammeddan by the end of our lifetimes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Do you believe that catalysts exist such that one thing can have an effect and/or cause a reaction on another? I'll bite. I think catalysts are variable. In other words... if you eliminate one catalyst, something else will easily take its place. If it wasn't cartoons, they'd be rioting about French headwear laws. If it wasn't the war in Iraq, it would be the war in Afghanistan. If it wasn't the war in Afghanistan, it would be our presence in Saudi Arabia. The list goes on. So yes... I believe in Catalysts in that they exist, but only a fool would attempt to control them. The analogy of the little dutch boy with his fingers in the dam comes to mind. These people want the west to fall. They will find their catalysts... no matter what. Count on it. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Do you believe that catalysts exist such that one thing can have an effect and/or cause a reaction on another? Sure. I also think that somethings exist without a catalyst. Do you agree as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Sure.I also think that somethings exist without a catalyst. Do you agree as well? Some things do. Not this one, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 it has been more than 30 years of Islamofascist terror on a worldwide scale. you can do a google search for Islamic terrorism and come up with literally thousands of internet hits. If the left can not see this, they never will. Oh yeah, were the Sudeten Czechs the "catalyst" for WWII? Or looking back were they a useful excuse at the time for Hitler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Oh yeah, were the Sudeten Czechs the "catalyst" for WWII? Or looking back were they a useful excuse at the time for Hitler? And Ferdinand in WWI. Funny, 60 years later the Croatians, Serbs, and Bosnians still hate each other. Recently, the catalyst was renamed from Archduke Ferdinand to Milosevic. ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Sure.I also think that somethings exist without a catalyst. Do you agree as well? That's a fair response. From what you'd written initially, it seemed like you believe that all things are independent--which I think we agree isn't the case. I do think that this particular set of events was due in no small part to the actions of this particular cleric--especially given how 60 Minutes framed the story. I do think that there was unrest just waiting for a next cause to get angry about--and that sooner or later they would have gotten all riled up over something. But, and this is a big but, the particular catalyst in this case created far more of a reaction (especially when combined with this cleric's efforts), than would a more pedestrian insult to Islam. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 So what about the neo-Nazi's and KKK contingent in the U.S.? Should we be working as a society to not piss them off more? The only way we don't piss off the muslim world is to discontinue our existence. That should be clear to everyone. There is no accomodating extremism. ... I'm not talking about accomodating extremeism--I'm talking about building citizenship and ownership of the Muslim world--this whole middle ground that we've been talking about. That's the direction I'm talking. I'm not talking about a Chamberlain-esque "peace-in-our-time-appeasement" strategy--just not doing things that will alienate the moderates such that bridging the gap with those who are the majority of the Islam world can (and are willing to) do more to promote peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I'll bite. I think catalysts are variable. In other words... if you eliminate one catalyst, something else will easily take its place. If it wasn't cartoons, they'd be rioting about French headwear laws. If it wasn't the war in Iraq, it would be the war in Afghanistan. If it wasn't the war in Afghanistan, it would be our presence in Saudi Arabia. The list goes on. So yes... I believe in Catalysts in that they exist, but only a fool would attempt to control them. The analogy of the little dutch boy with his fingers in the dam comes to mind. These people want the west to fall. They will find their catalysts... no matter what. Count on it. :2cents: But do any of the catalysts you mention amount to desecrating the image of one of their holiest prophets and a central figure in their religion? Again, I'm not talking about the reaction of the Extremists, I'm talking about the reaction of the moderates. I just don't think it'd be on the same level, though I agree that these people, as I said above, are looking for things to be angry about. it has been more than 30 years of Islamofascist terror on a worldwide scale.you can do a google search for Islamic terrorism and come up with literally thousands of internet hits. If the left can not see this, they never will. Oh yeah, were the Sudeten Czechs the "catalyst" for WWII? Or looking back were they a useful excuse at the time for Hitler? See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinstzar Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 it is time for the American people to realize that the West has lost this war.We are on our own. We do have Japan, Israel, Australia and Poland on our side. Other than that, Western Europe will be Mohammeddan by the end of our lifetimes.. Wow, that is a bold statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 But do any of the catalysts you mention amount to desecrating the image of one of their holiest prophets and a central figure in their religion? Again, I'm not talking about the reaction of the Extremists, I'm talking about the reaction of the moderates. I just don't think it'd be on the same level, though I agree that these people, as I said above, are looking for things to be angry about. You are correct in that the answer lies (as it always does) somewhere in the middle. I guess what I'm wondering aloud is whether or not there is even a 'middle' among muslims as it relates to the larger issue. You alluded to it yourself, where is the moderate muslim voice? We've all patiently waited for it to surface. Still waiting... still accomodating... anyone there? I'm starting to have my doubts, and I think you are too based on the "(?)" from your previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I will reiterate guys, I dont know how many times I have to post this For the most part American Muslims are "peaceful" (in actions at least if not words) because we have too much for live for Like jobs, our mortgages, cars, women etc I think I said it here before, you are more then likely to find an 18-22 year old Muslim male at a DC club on Thursday night, then at a Mosque on Friday afternoon So no, you won't see rioting here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 tried to give you the shocker :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: does anyone else find this to be extremely funny, especially since monkeyskin claims to be 68 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: does anyone else find this to be extremely funny, especially since monkeyskin claims to be 68 years old? He's not... he's in his 20's. He also started the original ST shocker thread. He seems to like that word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I will reiterate guys, I dont know how many times I have to post thisFor the most part American Muslims are "peaceful" (in actions at least if not words) because we have too much for live for Like jobs, our mortgages, cars, women etc I think I said it here before, you are more then likely to find an 18-22 year old Muslim male at a DC club on Thursday night, then at a Mosque on Friday afternoon So no, you won't see rioting here [zoony--I'll respond here. ] And that's why I think it's so important to enfranchise moderate Muslims in other parts of the world so that they too have the same sense of ownership and citizenship that those in the US have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 He's not... he's in his 20's. He also started the original ST shocker thread. He seems to like that word. If nothing else, MonkeySkin is one of my favorites for always coming up with something funny to say. That shocker thread was epic. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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