WP: Schools of Reeducation

[Winslowalrob]

I remember one history professor that I had was obcessed with religion...he was an ex-Jesuit, and loved to try to badmouth religion, especially Christianity every class, he always had some tale about Christianity at least, even when there was no reason to be talking about it during that class.

In my sociology class (this was back at old Montgomery College too, before I graduated and went to Maryland) our teacher always complained about capitalism. He seemed to think that he was teaching Socialism class instead of Sociology. It drove me crazy to hear him always ranting about how evil capitalism was and when he made us read the radical leftist books to try and improve our views. I ended up dropping the class after a while, though did try to stick with it as long as I could (...a little too long in terms of my grades...it turned out)

As for 9-11, I think most of my teachers blamed Bush for it.

In my time in College, most of my professors were lefties (like maybe 95+%)...and most of them (80+%) tried to espouse their politics and "enlighten us" during class, though they were usually supposed to be teaching us something entirely different. I can actually recall one or two teachers who were conservative and only one who tried to push it on a lot...but he was kind of crazy anyway and got blasted for his views by the class regularly.

Anecdotal evidence. I am sorry to hear that the teachers did that, but we have all had teachers who pushed their political views unto us. As long as I learn the material, it is not a big issue.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Umm, I guess I do not see through it then. Do you want to make this a contest of loaded-language use? Where does it mention ending free trade? And if you want to get into who was better for free trade, set up another thread. I'll dust off my old Economist issues and some old history books, and we can have at it .

If there was a democratic candidate for free trade and low taxes, he gets my vote

As far as loaded language, well its key, that is how politics gets defined. Social justice is a favorite term of lefties to talk about taxing the rich, eliminating free trade and "explotation" and making everything "equal"

As far as free trade threads, oh man we have had way too many in the past 4 years here

[SkinsHokieFan]

Anecdotal evidence. I am sorry to hear that the teachers did that, but we have all had teachers who pushed their political views unto us. As long as I learn the material, it is not a big issue.

I think you will see far more anecdotal evidence pointing to liberal professors :laugh:

[visionary]

Anecdotal evidence. I am sorry to hear that the teachers did that, but we have all had teachers who pushed their political views unto us. As long as I learn the material, it is not a big issue.

Ok, but I think it is bit more than that...but I wasn't trying to prove a point anyway...just whine a bit.

Something that you liberals have gotten very good at the past six years or so...

[Winslowalrob]

If there was a democratic candidate for free trade and low taxes, he gets my vote

As far as loaded language, well its key, that is how politics gets defined. Social justice is a favorite term of lefties to talk about taxing the rich, eliminating free trade and "explotation" and making everything "equal"

As far as free trade threads, oh man we have had way too many in the past 4 years here

I am super duper free trade, but low taxes arent my bag. I kinda thought Clinton was pretty decent on free trade, but I am going to assume you do not think so. And I think Bush is not so hot on free trade, but I am going to assume that his taxing policy delights you.

Dude, loaded language is stupid and meaningless, I do not see the need to make the education policy a political statement. Granted, everything has bias, but if the educational establishment is "committed to preparing individuals to promote social justice, to be change agents, and to recognize individual and institutionalized racism, sexism, homophobia, and classism." I do not see what you see. I just see they want people to go out there and make a difference. Like, I don't know volunteering at the local mosque. Or perhaps donating to Katrina relief. Or participating in a political rally. I stand by the statement.

[Winslowalrob]

Ok, but I think it is bit more than that...but I wasn't trying to prove a point anyway...just whine a bit.

Something that you liberals have gotten very good at the past six years or so...

Well, it appears we taught you how to do it right . I forgot that conservatives never complain

[Destino]

Considering this was years ago, no need to switch. Plus, its not like they go into their brainwashing on the first day. After a couple weeks you realize it, but then its too late...for I do not want to drop the class and fall behind. Plus, its not worth switching profs when the majority of them are liberal anyhow.

You must be some kind of super hero to be able to brave the vast liberal machine known as "the enemy" to some. Surely this is a joke right? I mean there is just no way you sat in that class listening to that and managed to form your own opinion. It's just not possible!

....or maybe the whole brainwashing thing is a stupid fantasy.

[JCB]

I just got back from the Liberal Professors Meeting. It's Super Sunday and, in an effort to counteract cultural hegemony, we purposefully don't watch the game. We usually open the meetings by meditating silently on a reading from Franz Fanon or Trotsky, and then we exchange lesson plans. Personally I'm looking forward to my class on Tuesday, because I really think that several students enrolled in my class this semester are willing to DO MY BIDDING.

I hate religion and families and puppies too.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I

I hate religion and families and puppies too.

Damn you puppy hater! :tantrum:

[visionary]

I just got back from the Liberal Professors Meeting. It's Super Sunday and, in an effort to counteract cultural hegemony, we purposefully don't watch the game. We usually open the meetings by meditating silently on a reading from Franz Fanon or Trotsky, and then we exchange lesson plans. Personally I'm looking forward to my class on Tuesday, because I really think that several students enrolled in my class this semester are willing to DO MY BIDDING.

I hate religion and families and puppies too.

LOL, I think I just woke a few people up laughing.

It's all part of your evil plan!

[chomerics]

One simple example of the predominance of liberalism in public education is the fact that holidays as we know them are gone. Political correctness seems to apply only to those on the left, and only to those without religious beliefs.

When I was in school, I looked forward every year to Christmas vacation. I had several close Jewish friends when I was in school, and none of them had a problem refering to it as such. Now my wife has a yearly "winter break." She welcomes the parents of her students into her classroom for a "winter party." There is no longer an Easter vacation, but a mandated reference to it as "spring break." She was not allowed to do Halloween crafts with her third graders because of the "religious implications." Surprisingly, Thanksgiving is still OK. I'm sure that will change next year.

Maybe it is just me, but I fail to see the correlation between changing a name of a holiday and liberals teaching our children. Is there anything even more important in this world then the supposed "war against christmas"? That should be the definition of a straw man argument.

As you well know, the words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution. I understand that one of the jobs of the Judicial Branch is to INTERPRET the Constitution, and I will not deny the fact that their interpretation of the establishment clause has deemed virtually any religious reference unconstitutional. But a reference to Christmas, which has become a largely secular holiday anyway, does nothing to attempt to establish a state religion. No matter the kids' faith, or lack thereof, they get two weeks off from school.

As we discussed yesterday, chom, you seem to believe that Christianity is an almost right-wing exclusive belief system. And I do tend to agree that religious beliefs probably play more of a role in shaping the political views of right-wingers than our friends on the left. So, eliminating holidays with a religious basis from public schools has a more negative impact on us.

Or placing your views has a negative impact on everyone that is not christian. Two sides to the same coin. I will always side on the one of tolerance for others beliefs, and not forcing their religious beliefs on someone. Personally, I was starting to take offense when people wished me a merry christmas, because of all the O'Reilly BS about it. It was as if I could spot the people who were being genuine, and the ones that were doing it just because Bill told them to. I would often just politely say that I am Jewish and I do not celebrate christmas because I don't think it is tolerant to other viewpoints. Personally I could care less about what they name vacation weeks, if they have a play based on christ or a muhammad, I don't believe in any of them, But as a society, I think we should respect other cultures and accomidate them into our society. We should live as a secular government, not a christian one, because we are not a christian society. Our country was founded on religious FREEDOM, and I feel like the freedom is being removed and religion is being placed front and center.

I do not advocate the following hypothetical example, but on Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, we don't celebrate "Great Civil Rights Pioneer Day." Call it what it is.

And my wife has no problem paying her union dues. But being required to donate to a party she does not support is bull****. Indeed, Stalin would be QUITE proud.

I still feel to understand the relevance of this issue. I mean it is the career path she chose, and I have given money via a previous company I worked for to a republican campaign. I chose to find a new job, but I didn't mind paying into the company, it was what I chose for a career.

As for your assertion that the republican party is anti-gay, I believe you're simply wrong. Just because someone doesn't support gay marriage, does not mean they are anti-gay. I personally would like to see civil unions that guarantee committed homosexual partners the same legal rights my wife and I have. I just don't want it to be called a marriage. It's a matter of semantics. My gay friends understand exactly where I'm coming from. If you don't, I'm sorry.

The republican party is anti-gay. You may think it is not, and you may think they want tolerance, yet they do not. They have not tried to push through a law guarenteeing civil unions, they have tried to outlaw gay marriage. It is because of their alignment to the religious sect, and it is wrong. I never understood what the entire "sanctity of marriage" BS was, I mean it's easy, don't marry a gay person. You chose to live your life one way and they chose to live it another. I just fail to see how this is going to destroy society, especially when the statistics show otherwise.

I realize there is an apparent contradiction between my complaints about the semantics of what we call holidays and the semantics of what we call gay relationships. There's not. To me the societal definition of family structure is critically important. It's eroded far enough, and doesn't need to go any farther.

But who is it for you to say? Did you know that a child growing up in a gay family has a much better chance statistically of going to college, and becoming a contributing member of society? You may think there is something wrong with gay people, or you may think your valuse are being "attacked", but they are not. It is only the gay people who are being attacked. They are the ones that do not have the same benifits as a husband and wife, even though they should. I am damn proud to live in Mass because we actually have laws on the books which allow gay people to marry.

(I swore I wasn't going to debate politics with you. It's not like we're going to change each other's minds. This one just hit kinda close to home.)

No problem, I hope you didn't take offense to my previous post, I didn;t mean to offend you if I did. I do understand what you are saying, I just think my beliefs of tolerance and understanding of others are better. . .you think the opposite. That is the great thing about our country though, you have two different ideas and each gets to view his side of the argument. Debate is what makes a country great.

[Thiebear]

Well which makes more sense, giving money to a party who actually backs your causes and voets in your favor or in the party that votes against it? If she doesn't want to pay union dues, tell her to change her career, it is part of being a teacher. Just as if I worked for a defense contractor and I was required to pay into a company that only gave to republicans.

Must be nice to have an argument and get to say WHATEVER you want...

There should be rules banning the ability to:

Schools are not liberal and say the above in the same thread.

Without an apology for one statement or the other...

Its just offensive and wrong....

[chomerics]

Must be nice to have an argument and get to say WHATEVER you want...

There should be rules banning the ability to:

Schools are not liberal and say the above in the same thread.

Without an apology for one statement or the other...

Its just offensive and wrong....

Bear, Hog gave the counter example to your argument, it just went right over your head. She pays into the union and is a conservative, kind of knocks that argument down doesn't it?

Furthermore, just because a union gives money to the democratic party does not make an entire school liberal, it makes a teachers union liberal. This is where you conservatives don't get "it", and it is an important reason which escapes most republicans. The VAST majority of democrats do not wear politics on their sleeve, whereas a lot of conservatives do. It is changing now, because of Bush, but in terms of generalities, the democrats keep their voting to themseves for the most part. Because republican do this, they assume that schools teach everyone the liberal mantra, it just is not true. . . that is unless you believe the liberal mantra is about obeying the constitution, and cantributing to society. I always thought those were AMERICAN ideals, not liberal ones. . . but maybe I was mistaken, maybe this country IS to far gove over the edge.

While you have all this bitterness, just remember how together the country was after 9-11, and lokk at what Bush did with that good will. That speaks volumes about the man, the party and the ideology right now.

[Thiebear]

The people in charge of the schools are blatantly liberal in their thinking but they don't hire principals / teachers / curriculum's that match??? Even though you just said they give the money to the people that espouse their beliefs...

So your saying:

They pay ALL the money to the people that backup their beliefs.

But then they don't practice them down?

Thats still a tough statement to make on both sides... Because if they didn't care they'd give to both equally.. so by all REAL reasoning they do care and thus push their agenda in the only direction they can which is to the people that work for them.

I have no problem with schools being liberal and taught by liberals.. It's one of the best places for it as it still applies....

(i like the over your head comment also) please try again...

[Air Force Cane]

Hey Chom-

since YOU are the minority in the country, why don't YOU band together with the majority Republicans?

Oh yeah, I forgot that "togetherness and unity" means doing what the liberals want.

No thanks.

[Cdowwe]

You must be some kind of super hero to be able to brave the vast liberal machine known as "the enemy" to some. Surely this is a joke right? I mean there is just no way you sat in that class listening to that and managed to form your own opinion. It's just not possible!

....or maybe the whole brainwashing thing is a stupid fantasy.

I am a super hero

[Destino]

I am a super hero

awesome!

[chomerics]

Hey Chom-

since YOU are the minority in the country, why don't YOU band together with the majority Republicans?

Oh yeah, I forgot that "togetherness and unity" means doing what the liberals want.

No thanks.

Funny, seeing how you have to resort to calling me "the minority" when it is not true. Evidently you have not seen any polls since the election, but suffice to say, you are the minotrity now, and will be for a long time to come.

[chomerics]

The people in charge of the schools are blatantly liberal in their thinking but they don't hire principals / teachers / curriculum's that match??? Even though you just said they give the money to the people that espouse their beliefs...

Bear, it is ILLEGAL to hire people based on thier beliefs, and if you even think the topic of politics come up during a teachers interview you are sorely mistaken. Like I said before it is a CONSERVATIVE'S way of hirinig and practice, not a liberals, you just went ahead and proved my point even more. . . Thanks

So your saying:

They pay ALL the money to the people that backup their beliefs.

But then they don't practice them down?

Yep, it is against the law to hire someone based on their political beliefs, maybe if you were a liberal you could understand this.

Thats still a tough statement to make on both sides... Because if they didn't care they'd give to both equally.. so by all REAL reasoning they do care and thus push their agenda in the only direction they can which is to the people that work for them.

They don't give to the republicans because the republicans are anti-union. . . do you expect Phillip Morris to give equally to democrats? Why would the give money to a party which is anti-union? Doesn't make sense does it now.

I have no problem with schools being liberal and taught by liberals.. It's one of the best places for it as it still applies....

(i like the over your head comment also) please try again...

Re-read the post, because it was obviously over your head bear. . .you went out and proved my point for me. . .oops

[Taylor 36]

I find it amazing that anyone, including Destino, would feel okay with people of authority brainwashing and tainting the views and minds of those they are supposed to being giving FACTS and allowing these individuals to become great thinkers on their own. To me, that is an enemy that we have in this country. God knows, if it was the right doing it, Des and Chom would be up in arms.

It doesn't amaze me, however, that Chom would post that the article is a Republican slanted piece and therefore is unmerited, when he only posts articles from extreme leftist publications and thinks that we are all supposed to bow down in awe of him and his **** for brains knowledge. Just as he tells someone that his wife should change jobs rather than change the injustice that is happening with that career. Such a leftist way of doing things.

As for the over all issue, yes, yes, yes, the educational systems of this country are slanted and over run by the left and their ideals. As a teacher, I see this first hand everyday. Not just in the high school where I teach, but also in the college I teach night classes at down the street. We don't have unions in VA, but we have the VEA, the local branch of the NEA. This is the same NEA who restricted its Washington State Branch from accepting donations of toys and candy from Wal-Mart for children, due to Wal-Mart's anti-union stance and Republican support. (Nice. Our National Education Association depriving children because of their politic greed and hatred. So typical of the left.)

Teachers spout off leftist views that do not pertain to their subject area, and punish and brow-beat students that disagree with their crazy point of views. I am currently helping a student in what looks like it will soon be a lawsuit against a colleague of mine for this exact reason. But, of course, it is fine when it comes from the left; it is a stoning offense it is done by the right.

[Henry]

It is now officially the offseason, so we mods are going to be paying a little more attention around here.

Let's make sure to post the source and title of the article in the thread title. Incendiary comment can be saved for the body of the post. Thanks.

[chomerics]

I find it amazing that anyone, including Destino, would feel okay with people of authority brainwashing and tainting the views and minds of those they are supposed to being giving FACTS and allowing these individuals to become great thinkers on their own. To me, that is an enemy that we have in this country. God knows, if it was the right doing it, Des and Chom would be up in arms.

Yep, of course it is, anyone that doesn't hink like you is "the enemy". . .stop being part of the problem and be part of a solution. Look at what the causes are instead of posting that people who don't think like you are "the enemy". The last time I checked the enemy was killing Americans and recruiting IED bombers, but maybe that's just my take on it.

It doesn't amaze me, however, that Chom would post that the article is a Republican slanted piece and therefore is unmerited, when he only posts articles from extreme leftist publications and thinks that we are all supposed to bow down in awe of him and his **** for brains knowledge. Just as he tells someone that his wife should change jobs rather than change the injustice that is happening with that career. Such a leftist way of doing things.

Use the search function and show me when I posted articles from left wing propaganda sites which were nothing more then propaganda. I have 8000+ posts, so obviously you should be able to find this ample evidence you claim right?

As for the over all issue, yes, yes, yes, the educational systems of this country are slanted and over run by the left and their ideals. As a teacher, I see this first hand everyday. Not just in the high school where I teach, but also in the college I teach night classes at down the street. We don't have unions in VA, but we have the VEA, the local branch of the NEA. This is the same NEA who restricted its Washington State Branch from accepting donations of toys and candy from Wal-Mart for children, due to Wal-Mart's anti-union stance and Republican support. (Nice. Our National Education Association depriving children because of their politic greed and hatred. So typical of the left.)

Teachers spout off leftist views that do not pertain to their subject area, and punish and brow-beat students that disagree with their crazy point of views. I am currently helping a student in what looks like it will soon be a lawsuit against a colleague of mine for this exact reason. But, of course, it is fine when it comes from the left; it is a stoning offense it is done by the right.

So you are not a liberal teacher, and Hog's wife is not a liberal teacher, yet where are the liberal teachers here? MissU28 is a republican teacher as well, so where are all these teachers that "brow beat" their students? Has any of the 50000+ members here had a liberal teacher that "brow beat" their students into believing their "crazy" POV? Even the conservative posters here have nothing in terms of evidence, and SHF posted the counter argument. . .if you don't like the class, take a different one.

As for telling Hog's wife to chose a different career, it was her choice, and she knew this beforehand. Just as I knew beforehand what my money was going to in my previous job. She can teach at a college or a university and not donate to unions if she wants, most all private institutions are not unionized.

And it is not the "liberal mantra", it is the republican mantra I am using against you, it isn't my fault you fali to see it. How many times have repubs made the argument that of there are no good jobs then people should move? Hpw is this ANY different? It isn't, you just missed the analogy in your liberal boogieman post. . . boo!!!!

[Destino]

I find it amazing that anyone, including Destino, would feel okay with people of authority brainwashing and tainting the views and minds of those they are supposed to being giving FACTS and allowing these individuals to become great thinkers on their own. To me, that is an enemy that we have in this country. God knows, if it was the right doing it, Des and Chom would be up in arms.

First of all the right does do it, and I am not up in arms about it. There are conservative schools and I couldn’t care less.

The difference is that I don’t believe that a professor having a personal bias that he is open about constitutes “brainwashing”. In the real world you will deal with people that have political bias all the time. Your boss, clients, coworkers, friends, family, and yes even your profession may have a political bias. The difference between your logic and mine is that I don’t view this as brainwashing because I do not accept other opinions as my own.

I do feel there are boundaries however. Booting a student out because he disagrees with a political stance would be in most cases unacceptable.

However a department head deciding that he/she wants certain ideals he/she feels are essential is to be expected. Some people do indeed feel that a healthy belief in multiculturalism is necessary to succeed in certain fields today, international business BTW is one of them. This is just one example. Another could be a hiring only economics professors that believe in capitalism….ask yourself would you hire a communist to teach economics if you were head of the department? I would not.

As for the over all issue, yes, yes, yes, the educational systems of this country are slanted and over run by the left and their ideals. As a teacher, I see this first hand everyday. Not just in the high school where I teach, but also in the college I teach night classes at down the street. We don't have unions in VA, but we have the VEA, the local branch of the NEA. This is the same NEA who restricted its Washington State Branch from accepting donations of toys and candy from Wal-Mart for children, due to Wal-Mart's anti-union stance and Republican support. (Nice. Our National Education Association depriving children because of their politic greed and hatred. So typical of the left.)

I’m always amazed at complaints that a union is slanted. Common sense here people….unions will favor those that favor the union. If a person can’t grasp this simple concept, then let’s not discuss it because it would be a major waste of time for all involved.

Teachers spout off leftist views that do not pertain to their subject area, and punish and brow-beat students that disagree with their crazy point of views. I am currently helping a student in what looks like it will soon be a lawsuit against a colleague of mine for this exact reason. But, of course, it is fine when it comes from the left; it is a stoning offense it is done by the right.

If someone punishes a child for not having a particular political viewpoint then you are right it should be looked into.

However I do not believe that any political viewpoint is acceptable in a classroom. Someone for example that believes in strict gender roles and views women as lesser beings that shouldn’t be allowed to seek careers and should be obedient to men. Such a person openly proclaiming their viewpoint would be a unacceptable disturbance in a classroom setting. Likewise a person that voices his belief that America is evil and a threat to the world, as some on democratic underground proclaim constantly spouting off in class would no doubt piss a lot of people off.

There are limits. But if a person as a belief within reasonable limits, I agree that the teacher should not be allowed to punish or “brow-beat” them into changing their minds

[DarkLadyRaven]

I find it amazing that anyone, including Destino, would feel okay with people of authority brainwashing and tainting the views and minds of those they are supposed to being giving FACTS and allowing these individuals to become great thinkers on their own. To me, that is an enemy that we have in this country. God knows, if it was the right doing it, Des and Chom would be up in arms.

It doesn't amaze me, however, that Chom would post that the article is a Republican slanted piece and therefore is unmerited, when he only posts articles from extreme leftist publications and thinks that we are all supposed to bow down in awe of him and his **** for brains knowledge. Just as he tells someone that his wife should change jobs rather than change the injustice that is happening with that career. Such a leftist way of doing things.

As for the over all issue, yes, yes, yes, the educational systems of this country are slanted and over run by the left and their ideals. As a teacher, I see this first hand everyday. Not just in the high school where I teach, but also in the college I teach night classes at down the street. We don't have unions in VA, but we have the VEA, the local branch of the NEA. This is the same NEA who restricted its Washington State Branch from accepting donations of toys and candy from Wal-Mart for children, due to Wal-Mart's anti-union stance and Republican support. (Nice. Our National Education Association depriving children because of their politic greed and hatred. So typical of the left.)

Teachers spout off leftist views that do not pertain to their subject area, and punish and brow-beat students that disagree with their crazy point of views. I am currently helping a student in what looks like it will soon be a lawsuit against a colleague of mine for this exact reason. But, of course, it is fine when it comes from the left; it is a stoning offense it is done by the right.

Got more examples ? Or personal experiance at all?

You are stating assertions without backing them up with direct unbiased numbers and you only have one anadote at the end.

If I have a teacher I cant stand or Im in a college that I dont like-- I drop the **** out. My mother makes 55,000 a year without going to college. You can too!

I dont even repsect my stupid ****ing teachers--- so how can they influence me?

[Winslowalrob]

I already posted this, and got a tepid response (thanks for trying though Hokie).

The Education people want teachers "committed to preparing individuals to promote social justice, to be change agents, and to recognize individual and institutionalized racism, sexism, homophobia, and classism." Unless I misread it, I have no problems with that statement. I'll stand by it.