WP: Schools of Reeducation

[chomerics]

My semester abroad was pretty much all of that, from VT business professors no less. When one of our professors called Bill Clinton a conservative I laughed, and knew what kind of "political" semester I was in for

I have to admit, I couldn't stop smiling that day in Rome when I found out the Republicans dominated the 2002 midterm elections and seeing just how ticked my professors were over that

Other then the absurd political opinions they espouged, they were pretty awesome guys, just got old when every other class I kept hearing "Shrub made another bonehead decision today"

Oh yeah, their anti-religious diatrabe got old also. While they did their very best to respect me during Ramadan the questions of "what is the practical use of fasting, why was it started, because you know there had to have been a practical reson to starve yourself" implying it was not divine ticked me off a bit.

I'll add another example. Freshmen year of college was the fall of 2000 which was the election between Bush and Gore. My God the nonsense I heard

I was taking sociology that semester and for the most part it was a very good class with a very interesting professor. But when he made the statement about the election that "Bush has no clue what is going on, Gore does but does nothing about it" I officialy had my first "encounter" with a liberal professor in college

Of course leading up to election day the attacks on GWB grew more and more, rather then a "fair and balanced" discussion of the 2 candidates. And during the re-count, my goodness, I wanted to shoot myself because every class I heard from this guy how Republicans were robbing this nation of a fair election

For a fairly conservative student body at VT, a majority of my professors were liberal as hell. The only semester they STFU was the 9/11 semester

Just to be balanced in my post, I did have several economics professors who were pretty solid. One had us read PJ O'Rouke, another talked about the problems with the federal gov't spending too much since the 1960s, and my middle eastern economics class was a very fair look at our long term middle east policy, past decisions our nation made in the middle east, and a look at the long term oil market, without the partisan rancor that my liberal professors had for Bush

We've been in this discussion numerous times, and I have absolutely NO experience with liberal professors. Politics was never brought up, except by the conservative professors. My economics professor was a conservative and used to hand out republican propaganda e-mails during the beginning of every class. It is where I started thinking supply side theory was BS because he was pushing for it. I also had a VERY conservative english teacher who would e-mail the class the same type of propaganda e-mails along with the assignments. I never had a liberal professor do anything of the sort, in fact they stayed away from politics. . . This was all before 9-11 though.

[Winslowalrob]

No left wing extremists, but you can go to a college with right wing extremists, as Bob Jones University was already brouoght up in this thread.

Sigh, one day I will find left wing extremists teaching the majority of classes and clouding my brain. And what a gloirous day that will be.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Also, you were in sociology classes and international classes, I mean, what did you expect? In my Econ classes, I expect my teachers to be Libertarians or Republicans, I do not mind hearing their political opinions because they will not change mine (go socialism!). And perhaps a conservative student body having liberal professors helps spark better debate and understanding. Would you prefer to go someplace where everyone agreed with your political beliefs? Because that is what the article sounds like. Now, you may then point to the article and say "they are forcing their liberal propaganda onto us" well then you do not have to attend a public school. Just like I do not have to attend a private christian school. When I got into UVA I horrified my mother when I told her I did not want to go there, and I did not want to tell her that the reason was because a lot of the students and professors are conservative. Because unlike you, I do want to go to a place where everyone agrees with me .

You gotta read my edit. For the most part I was smart enough not to have it effect my core beliefs although it made me look at things a little different. It was the "weaker" minded people I feared for more , those who aren't political junkies like I am

The sociology prof was no surprise, as I quickly found out his office resided in the most liberal building on campus. What got me though was how quickly any "dissent" to his opinion was shot down. As with my Switzerland professors, there was no argument or dissent, it was pretty much their opinion and their opinion only. They were nice enough to listen to me in more informal settings outside of class, but it kind of defeated the purprose because the whole class would not hear me counteract their argument. It got bad when one girl said "I don't know of any student that voted for Bush in 2000" Well I kindly told her I did.

We've been in this discussion numerous times, and I have absolutely NO experience with liberal professors. Politics was never brought up, except by the conservative professors. My economics professor was a conservative and used to hand out republican propaganda e-mails during the beginning of every class. It is where I started thinking supply side theory was BS because he was pushing for it. I also had a VERY conservative english teacher who would e-mail the class the same type of propaganda e-mails along with the assignments. I never had a liberal professor do anything of the sort, in fact they stayed away from politics. . . This was all before 9-11 though.

Well lucky you buddy , in my expierence my economics professors were the most realistic and brightest as well as conservative. Nature of the "business" I suppose

Hearing of a Republican english professor honestly stuns me, and if not for your general credibility with me, I would call BS to that. I have never in my life met a conservative, republican, nor right leaning english teacher/professor. And this is through high school, into college, and talking with people at different graduate programs in the DC area

My whole story was pretty much that these guys had an open forum to air whatever opinion they wanted to say. My counter arguments were usually shot down, so I learned to be quiet after a while

[Sarge]

This is "the enemy" to you? No one gives a damn that Christian or conservative school do this all the time, and yes many do take government funds. But when you feel the other side of the political spectrum is engaging in the same tricks they are "the enemy" and are a threat.

Joe Stalin would indeed be proud.

Then conversely, place's like noted in the above need to acknowledge their leftist slant and make clear that the education that kids will recieve there will be slanted that way, just like christian schools do.

Of course, they would see all of the money dry up as soon as they do that

[Winslowalrob]

You gotta read my edit. For the most part I was smart enough not to have it effect my core beliefs although it made me look at things a little different. It was the "weaker" minded people I feared for more , those who aren't political junkies like I am

The sociology prof was no surprise, as I quickly found out his office resided in the most liberal building on campus. What got me though was how quickly any "dissent" to his opinion was shot down. As with my Switzerland professors, there was no argument or dissent, it was pretty much their opinion and their opinion only. They were nice enough to listen to me in more informal settings outside of class, but it kind of defeated the purprose because the whole class would not hear me counteract their argument. It got bad when one girl said "I don't know of any student that voted for Bush in 2000" Well I kindly told her I did.

Well lucky you buddy , in my expierence my economics professors were the most realistic and brightest as well as conservative. Nature of the "business" I suppose

Hearing of a Republican english professor honestly stuns me, and if not for your general credibility with me, I would call BS to that. I have never in my life met a conservative, republican, nor right leaning english teacher/professor. And this is through high school, into college, and talking with people at different graduate programs in the DC area

My whole story was pretty much that these guys had an open forum to air whatever opinion they wanted to say. My counter arguments were usually shot down, so I learned to be quiet after a while

I do not agree that a professor should shoot down a student. Unless the student brings up TERRIBLE arguments (which often happened in my history classes and I would be the one that shot people down). The nature of both yours and choms arguments is that they are both anecdotal, which means that they are terrible forms of evidence one way or another about "the catastrophic state of our evil liberal education." I know you respect numbers, so we can both agree that humanities teachers tend to be liberal and econ/business teachers tend to be conservative/libertarian. Most of my teachers never talked about Bush in class, only in private consersations with me did we have any political discourse. Then again, that is just me. We need hard numbers to see whether the majority of proffesors are corrupting minds in class by talking about how good or bad Bush is.

PS, I was STUNNED when I found a Republican science teacher here at JMU, but it happens. I guess that is the magic of individuality.

[chomerics]

Hearing of a Republican english professor honestly stuns me, and if not for your general credibility with me, I would call BS to that. I have never in my life met a conservative, republican, nor right leaning english teacher/professor. And this is through high school, into college, and talking with people at different graduate programs in the DC area

I was stunned as well, I mean when I ever got the first e-mail I was like If you want, I will post the next one that I get. I'm still on her e-mail list because she thinks she's getting a rise out of me, (I will rip apart the e-mails and re-send them to her distribution list :laugh: )

She's actually a born again christian, and that might explain her political beliefs.

[Duncan]

Why would you not graduate if you get an A-???

MOST colleges require ethics as a class you must take before graduation is there something wrong with that? Yet another straw man posed by the republican media to make it look like they are the repressed group. Look around people, you control the presidency, house, senate and now the supreme court, talk radio and most of mainstream media at what point do you realize you are the opressors not the opressed? When there is no voice from the otherside at all?

[Cdowwe]

I am not, I was pointing out that the only people who actually protest at funerals, and protest offensively BTW, are republican extremists. They have every right to do so, but they are tasteless in doing it.

Next time, try not to jump to conclusions about my beliefs, you guys always do this because you THINK you know my positions, but the true fact is that you haven't a clue, this is a perfect example of it.

By republican extremists you mean Fred Phelps. I would not consider him a republican btw. Yes, an extremist. ANd they probably will no longer have that right when legislation gets passed.

We do know your positions...crazy liberal ones.

[chomerics]

By republican extremists you mean Fred Phelps. I would not consider him a republican btw.

You would not consider him a republican, but he is a registered republican and constantly supports their POV. I mean would you call him a democrat? He is a fervent anti-gay protestor, and he is part of the party if you like it or not, just the same as greenpeace and PETA are part of the left. Everyside has their nutjobs, not acknowledging that they are on your side is only blinding yourself from reality.

Yes, an extremist. ANd they probably will no longer have that right when legislation gets passed.

He absolutely should be allowed to do what he wants, I don't agree with it, and I wouldn't mind say banning protests within 200ft of a funeral home, but as of right now he has the right. It is guarenteed in our constitution and it is free speech. We may not like his message, but we SHOULD repsect his right.

We do know your positions...crazy liberal ones.

Yea, our constitution is now a "crazy liberal document" huh

[Cdowwe]

He absolutely should be allowed to do what he wants, I don't agree with it, and I wouldn't mind say banning protests within 200ft of a funeral home, but as of right now he has the right. It is guarenteed in our constitution and it is free speech. We may not like his message, but we SHOULD repsect his right.

Yea, our constitution is now a "crazy liberal document" huh

You do understand they are going to pass a bill right...I think its in the senate now. Dont give me that Constitution stuff... when they wrote it, I dont think they imagined some nutjob would be protesting funerals. But since America has gone down that sad road, its time to ban them.

[Teller]

My wife is a school teacher in West Virginia. She is a member of the MANDATORY teacher's union, which was the largest contributor to state democrats during the last election. My wife is a conservative, as am I. The fact that she is REQUIRED to pay dues to an organization that donates money to a party she is opposed to is absolute BS. Hmm...why didn't the union donate equally to both parties, or not at all? Because the idiots running it feel the democrats more espouse their "ideals." Our educational system is VERY liberal. Follow the money.

And BTW, chom, if you want to play the "what party is he registered with" game...Bill O'Reilly is a registered DEMOCRAT. (I was caller on the show in which he revealed himself as what he calls an "enlightened democrat.")

[chomerics]

You do understand they are going to pass a bill right...I think its in the senate now. Dont give me that Constitution stuff... when they wrote it, I dont think they imagined some nutjob would be protesting funerals. But since America has gone down that sad road, its time to ban them.

Yes, I was aware of it, but did you also know inside the bill is a provision which will ban people from protesting where the president is? That IS what the nature of the law and our constitution was supposed to PROTECT!!!

I agree, some nutjob protesting at a funeral is a lunatic, but it is still his RIGHT. Using him as a reason to limit and ban protesting is a ludicrous at best and unconstitutional at worst. . . but now with a conservative supreme cpourt, we can kiss all of our civil liberties and rights goodby. Hopefully I am wrong, but I do not think I will be.

[chomerics]

My wife is a school teacher in West Virginia. She is a member of the MANDATORY teacher's union, which was the largest contributor to state democrats during the last election. My wife is a conservative, as am I. The fact that she is REQUIRED to pay dues to an organization that donates money to a party she is opposed to is absolute BS. Hmm...why didn't the union donate equally to both parties, or not at all? Because the idiots running it feel the democrats more espouse their "ideals." Our educational system is VERY liberal. Follow the money.

Well which makes more sense, giving money to a party who actually backs your causes and voets in your favor or in the party that votes against it? If she doesn't want to pay union dues, tell her to change her career, it is part of being a teacher. Just as if I worked for a defense contractor and I was required to pay into a company that only gave to republicans.

As for the education system being VERY liberal, show me where. I assume your wife doesn't teach her class with a liberal bent, but I will agree that the majority of teachers are liberals. THe one difference is that the vast majority teaches class without politics in their thinking, and in my experience it has been 2 conservative teachers who taught with their politics front and center.

And BTW, chom, if you want to play the "what party is he registered with" game...Bill O'Reilly is a registered DEMOCRAT. (I was caller on the show in which he revealed himself as what he calls an "enlightened democrat.")

That wasn't my point, it was his position which defines him as a republican. You can not deny that the republican party is anti gay, and the democratic party is pro tolerance. This man is a republican because of his views, the same as O'Reilly is because of his views. I probably should have rephrased the post to clarify my thoughts though.

[Destino]

And all this time I was thinking it was terrorists that make us go boom and cut off our heads.

Thank goodness we don't have to worry about them any more...whew.

Anyone up for a fun vacation to Persian Gulf.

(I do share a lot of concerns about the undeniable liberal indoctrination that goes on at many public universities...but come on, "the enemy"?)

The institutional bias at certain colleges and universities clearly need to be reviewed. Some take it way too far. Though it is also undeniable that with any administration you will have "vision" the college dean will want to put in place. A middle ground or at least some limits should be considered.

I appreciate that you visionary can see the idiocy in "the enemy" statement.

[Destino]

People go to those schools knowing they are Christian. I did not come to school to listen to some unmarried 50 year old woman spit hatred toward Bush in some english class.

Then change classes Cdowwe. Are you one of the personal responsibility crowd? I've had prof's that I couldn't stand and I changed my class....OMG amazing isn't it?!!!! Who would have thought that when you are paying for something YOU should take steps to make sure you get what you want. Write a complaint, switch class, and breath easy....or do nothing expect to hear what you want to hear and complain that the liberal boogyman is trying to brainwash you.

[Destino]

Then conversely, place's like noted in the above need to acknowledge their leftist slant and make clear that the education that kids will recieve there will be slanted that way, just like christian schools do.

Of course, they would see all of the money dry up as soon as they do that

You don't think that information on hiring practices and the like can be discovered? Do you normally sign up for things that cost thousands of dollars and not ask questions? I ask my profs questions, I asked the school questions, I research where I spend my money sarge. Sorry that you need a "liberal bias" sticker slapped on everything to make life the way you want it.

The problem also is that most schools bias is different depending on your major. Some have very liberal English prof and conservative to the bone business departments. So you have to do your homework before promising to write massive checks.

[Cdowwe]

Then change classes Cdowwe. Are you one of the personal responsibility crowd? I've had prof's that I couldn't stand and I changed my class....OMG amazing isn't it?!!!! Who would have thought that when you are paying for something YOU should take steps to make sure you get what you want. Write a complaint, switch class, and breath easy....or do nothing expect to hear what you want to hear and complain that the liberal boogyman is trying to brainwash you.

Considering this was years ago, no need to switch. Plus, its not like they go into their brainwashing on the first day. After a couple weeks you realize it, but then its too late...for I do not want to drop the class and fall behind. Plus, its not worth switching profs when the majority of them are liberal anyhow.

[Teller]

Well which makes more sense, giving money to a party who actually backs your causes and voets in your favor or in the party that votes against it? If she doesn't want to pay union dues, tell her to change her career, it is part of being a teacher. Just as if I worked for a defense contractor and I was required to pay into a company that only gave to republicans.

As for the education system being VERY liberal, show me where. I assume your wife doesn't teach her class with a liberal bent, but I will agree that the majority of teachers are liberals. THe one difference is that the vast majority teaches class without politics in their thinking, and in my experience it has been 2 conservative teachers who taught with their politics front and center.

That wasn't my point, it was his position which defines him as a republican. You can not deny that the republican party is anti gay, and the democratic party is pro tolerance. This man is a republican because of his views, the same as O'Reilly is because of his views. I probably should have rephrased the post to clarify my thoughts though.

One simple example of the predominance of liberalism in public education is the fact that holidays as we know them are gone. Political correctness seems to apply only to those on the left, and only to those without religious beliefs.

When I was in school, I looked forward every year to Christmas vacation. I had several close Jewish friends when I was in school, and none of them had a problem refering to it as such. Now my wife has a yearly "winter break." She welcomes the parents of her students into her classroom for a "winter party." There is no longer an Easter vacation, but a mandated reference to it as "spring break." She was not allowed to do Halloween crafts with her third graders because of the "religious implications." Surprisingly, Thanksgiving is still OK. I'm sure that will change next year.

As you well know, the words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution. I understand that one of the jobs of the Judicial Branch is to INTERPRET the Constitution, and I will not deny the fact that their interpretation of the establishment clause has deemed virtually any religious reference unconstitutional. But a reference to Christmas, which has become a largely secular holiday anyway, does nothing to attempt to establish a state religion. No matter the kids' faith, or lack thereof, they get two weeks off from school.

As we discussed yesterday, chom, you seem to believe that Christianity is an almost right-wing exclusive belief system. And I do tend to agree that religious beliefs probably play more of a role in shaping the political views of right-wingers than our friends on the left. So, eliminating holidays with a religious basis from public schools has a more negative impact on us.

I do not advocate the following hypothetical example, but on Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, we don't celebrate "Great Civil Rights Pioneer Day." Call it what it is.

And my wife has no problem paying her union dues. But being required to donate to a party she does not support is bull****. Indeed, Stalin would be QUITE proud.

As for your assertion that the republican party is anti-gay, I believe you're simply wrong. Just because someone doesn't support gay marriage, does not mean they are anti-gay. I personally would like to see civil unions that guarantee committed homosexual partners the same legal rights my wife and I have. I just don't want it to be called a marriage. It's a matter of semantics. My gay friends understand exactly where I'm coming from. If you don't, I'm sorry.

I realize there is an apparent contradiction between my complaints about the semantics of what we call holidays and the semantics of what we call gay relationships. There's not. To me the societal definition of family structure is critically important. It's eroded far enough, and doesn't need to go any farther.

(I swore I wasn't going to debate politics with you. It's not like we're going to change each other's minds. This one just hit kinda close to home.)

[AJ_Skins]

To the liberals ranting here, how about answering a question? Do you agree with the policies of the schools of education cited in the article?

[Winslowalrob]

To the liberals ranting here, how about answering a question? Do you agree with the policies of the schools of education cited in the article?

What policies exactly are you referring to? Before I commit myself, I just want to know what you consider to be the most egregarious offense, highlight it, and I will give my liberal opinion (though I hardly speak for all of my brethren).

[AJ_Skins]

What policies exactly are you referring to? Before I commit myself, I just want to know what you consider to be the most egregarious offense, highlight it, and I will give my liberal opinion (though I hardly speak for all of my brethren).

Any example from the article you want. They're all relatively similar.

[Winslowalrob]

Any example from the article you want. They're all relatively similar.

The Education people want teachers "committed to preparing individuals to promote social justice, to be change agents, and to recognize individual and institutionalized racism, sexism, homophobia, and classism." Unless I misread it, I have no problems with that statement. I'll stand by it.

[SkinsHokieFan]

The Education people want teachers "committed to preparing individuals to promote social justice, to be change agents, and to recognize individual and institutionalized racism, sexism, homophobia, and classism." Unless I misread it, I have no problems with that statement. I'll stand by it.

Social justice is a new buzz word among liberals meaning "tax rich people more and end free trade"

I think we all see through that

[Winslowalrob]

Social justice is a new buzz word among liberals meaning "tax rich people more and end free trade"

I think we all see through that

Umm, I guess I do not see through it then. Do you want to make this a contest of loaded-language use? Where does it mention ending free trade? And if you want to get into who was better for free trade, set up another thread. I'll dust off my old Economist issues and some old history books, and we can have at it .

[visionary]

Oh yeah, their anti-religious diatrabe got old also. While they did their very best to respect me during Ramadan the questions of "what is the practical use of fasting, why was it started, because you know there had to have been a practical reson to starve yourself" implying it was not divine ticked me off a bit.

I was taking sociology that semester and for the most part it was a very good class with a very interesting professor. But when he made the statement about the election that "Bush has no clue what is going on, Gore does but does nothing about it" I officialy had my first "encounter" with a liberal professor in college

The only semester they STFU was the 9/11 semester

I remember one history professor that I had was obcessed with religion...he was an ex-Jesuit, and loved to try to badmouth religion, especially Christianity every class, he always had some tale about Christianity at least, even when there was no reason to be talking about it during that class.

In my sociology class (this was back at old Montgomery College too, before I graduated and went to Maryland) our teacher always complained about capitalism. He seemed to think that he was teaching Socialism class instead of Sociology. It drove me crazy to hear him always ranting about how evil capitalism was and when he made us read the radical leftist books to try and improve our views. I ended up dropping the class after a while, though did try to stick with it as long as I could (...a little too long in terms of my grades...it turned out)

As for 9-11, I think most of my teachers blamed Bush for it.

In my time in College, most of my professors were lefties (like maybe 95+%)...and most of them (80+%) tried to espouse their politics and "enlighten us" during class, though they were usually supposed to be teaching us something entirely different. I can actually recall one or two teachers who were conservative and only one who tried to push it on a lot...but he was kind of crazy anyway and got blasted for his views by the class regularly.