fdarugar Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Nothing against Campbell, I'm glad we have him. But anybody who says they'd rather have Campbell over Vince Young has no idea what they are talking about! No homer in me, I'd rather have Vince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchershire Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Nothing against Campbell, I'm glad we have him. But anybody who says they'd rather have Campbell over Vince Young has no idea what they are talking about! Oh yes we do!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinzOwnU Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Why would anyone really want another running QB? You guys are falling in love with a name. I wouldn't want vick on my team, and I don't want young either. All of his running tricks won't be nearly as effective in the NFL. If you can't throw the ball, forget about it. I'm not convinced that Young is much of a passer. His best throws were to wide open guys tonight. Every throw into tight coverage was off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebornempowered Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Last year watching the bowl games I thought two players were just remarkable. Vince Young and Jason Campbell. I found myself wondering how good they could be in the pros and how much I'd love either guy but never thought we'd get Campbell due to having Ramsey. I was and AM thrilled we have him.Young has something tremendously special about him, no doubt. But, unless he learns proper throwing mechanics, teams will hurt him in the NFL. He's 6-5 with the release of a man 6-1, IF that. Campbell has better throwing mechanics and should be a better professional passer, especially if what Brown said about Young was true that he only took off when the coaching staff stopped trying to fix him and let him play. On the college level he can get away with that. In the pros he really can't. I watched Campbells highlights last week and I was amazed at his patience. In the clips I saw he could have ran and instead stayed home and made the passes. He didn't run unless he had too. In addition I enjoy watching V. Young but that sidearm throw will have to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 All of you doubters are highly mistaken. I will take a HOF defender like Ronnie Lott's word over any of yours. He IS a better scrambler than Vick. Why? He has speed AND power. No DB is gonna bring him down in the open field. He has speed like Vick and power to break tackles in the pocket and on the run like McNabb and Culpepper. How can you question his passing? HE IS THE MOST EFFICIENT COLLEGIATE PASSER IN THE NATION. I understand when most of you think of a scrambling QB you think he can't throw, that is not Vince. He throws a VERY nice deep ball and rarely misses any short throws. Like I said, he is the MOST efficient passer in the country. More efficient than Leinart or any other QB. And he's not just throwing dump offs either. He has the arm to put the ball anywhere on the field. I know that it is popular to call guys a "possible" bust. If you watch college football(and not just today's game) you know that this guy is the truth. I understand that since Campbell is already a Redskin you all are gonna protect him and his rep. That's cool, but be honest here. Campbell had two AWESOME running backs that carried the Auburn offense, Campbell simply managed the game(which he did well). Vince, on the other hand, CARRIES his team. He IS Texas' running game, he takes the pressure of HIMSELF with his ARM and LEGS combo. He has led Texas to back to back Rose Bowls, last year against Michigan. Again, like I said, I am glad we got Campbell. I am just bringing up a possibility. If you are glad we have Campbell, good, but don't try to down play the magnificance that is Vince Young. A lot of you guys that are questioning his ability probably don't watch much college football. If you don't believe me, listen to ANYONE talk about Vince Young. Anyone who knows football and has seen him doesn't doubt him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peckerwood Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 young is just a bigger, stronger version of vick.... no thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 No homer in me, I'd rather have Vince. The constant cry of the ignorant is to suggest others are homers if they aren't as silly. Again, Young is SPECIAL. He has mobility that seems supernatural when he's on. But, ALL NFL QBs eventually sit in the pocket and throw the ball. All of them. Young will too. Unlike Campbell, Young has an obvious, glaring, terrible mechanical error that will have to be corrected on the next level or he will not do a thing in the NFL as a passer. If he does correct it, he'll be an amazing player. If he doesn't, he'll be up and down and never really be the guy you need. Campbell is a beautiful passer. He's got an easy motion, quick, HIGH release, wonderful accuracy, touch and power. As a passer Campbell is years ahead of Young in physical development on the NFL level. He's older than Young, so, what Young becomes is a good question. Young's mobility will push him into the Top 5 of the draft. Campbell has good speed, but isn't really mobile in the way Young is. Obviously because of that you have to look at Young as the better prospect. But, you also know you have to correct a lot with Young you didn't have to correct with Campbell and that's never an easy bet to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyf316 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Many seem to be commenting on his method of throwing the ball. He looks a lot like Brett Favre in his form, to me. While this has been the worst year of Favre's career, his style has remained the same that entire time. It can't be argued that Favre will be a HoF nod when his shot comes up. Let me further direct you to more info about Young, all statistics being pre-05-Rose Bowl - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Young Vince’s career passing completion percentage is the best in UT history, 60.8%. Passed for 40 TDs (No. 4 in UT history) while rushing for 2,851 yards (No. 1 on UT’s all-time QB rushing list/No. 7 on UT’s all-time list) and 33 TDs (No. 5 on UT’s all-time rushing TDs list/T-No. 1 among QBs) Young's 8,748 yards of total offense is a school record Young has rushed and thrown for over 100 yards in the same game a UT-record five times in his career He is the first player in UT history to register more than one game with 400 or more yards of total offense, a feat he has accomplished three times If that's what his release gets him, I'll take a chance on him in the pros, thank you. If it ain't broke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebornempowered Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Campbell had two AWESOME running backs that carried the Auburn offense, Campbell simply managed the game(which he did well). I'll take that over a Vick prototype any day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inevitable Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 No one is downplaying Vince's Athleticism But you have to look beyond your man-lust, and realize guys like Brian Urlacher, who understand the mechanics of tackling, proper pursuit angles, and can hit a HELL of a lot harder then any college LB, are going to make his ideas of sugar plums and massive numbers of rushing TD's go out of his head very early in his career. Is he efficient? Yes. Is he a good prospect? Yes. But so is Jason Campbell, just as good as any other college player. For all you know his first play from scrimage in preseason he could snap his leg like a twig, just like any other player. When Vince Young plays a great defense, he's going to have the same problems as any other mobile QB. Its not the CB's he has to worry about. Its the Sean Taylors. The Ed Reeds. The Brian Urlachers, etc etc Who understand the mechanics of good defense, and who can make up for VY's Great speed with their great technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdarugar Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 The constant cry of the ignorant is to suggest others are homers if they aren't as silly. Again, Young is SPECIAL. He has mobility that seems supernatural when he's on. But, ALL NFL QBs eventually sit in the pocket and throw the ball. All of them.Young will too. Unlike Campbell, Young has an obvious, glaring, terrible mechanical error that will have to be corrected on the next level or he will not do a thing in the NFL as a passer. If he does correct it, he'll be an amazing player. If he doesn't, he'll be up and down and never really be the guy you need. Campbell is a beautiful passer. He's got an easy motion, quick, HIGH release, wonderful accuracy, touch and power. As a passer Campbell is years ahead of Young in physical development on the NFL level. He's older than Young, so, what Young becomes is a good question. Young's mobility will push him into the Top 5 of the draft. Campbell has good speed, but isn't really mobile in the way Young is. Obviously because of that you have to look at Young as the better prospect. But, you also know you have to correct a lot with Young you didn't have to correct with Campbell and that's never an easy bet to make. dude, you just took me to school... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Jason Campbell is much better as a passer Better deep ball, better arm, more accurate, better throwing motion, and mechanics And he can move very well, not Vince Young well, but very well where the Redskins will get 1st downs when they shouldn't have because of JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Why? You want another mike vick? Vick is trash, and this guy won't do much better unless he learns how to pass. Mobile QBs dazzle the highlights, and they can dazzle the ranks of teams that are not participating in the postseason. I'd rather have jason campbell. We'd need a top 3 pick to score this guy, and I don't plan on the skins having a top 3 pick for many years to come. Please stop posting cliche answers. You have obviously never seen Vince play. He can't throw? Youu are very uninformed, the guy has a strong arm and GREAT accuracy. He is not anything like Vick. Vick never led the Big East in any QB stat, Young leads THE NATION in QB efficiancy. Get a clue before you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Please stop posting cliche answers. You have obviously never seen Vince play. He can't throw? Youu are very uninformed, the guy has a strong arm and GREAT accuracy. He is not anything like Vick. Vick never led the Big East in any QB stat, Young leads THE NATION in QB efficiancy. Get a clue before you post. Actually Vick led the nation in passing efficieny as a RS Freshmen during the 1999 season And he has a better release, and stronger accurate arm. He is just stupid Now as for Young vs Campbell Having seen JC play live, I would take JC over VY in a heartbeat. As Art posted, Campbell has better mechanics, a better deep ball, moves very wel in the pocket, can run when neccessary, better release, and will be a better passer Vince Young IS a GREAT college football player, and is very clutch. I enjoyed watching him play tonight But to say which pro prospect you want? Jason Campbell anyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyf316 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Why? You want another mike vick? Vick is trash, and this guy won't do much better unless he learns how to pass. Again... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Young "Early in his collegiate career, Vince Young had been criticized as "great rusher...average passer", and his unconventional throwing motion had been criticised as being "side-arm" as opposed to the conventional "over the top" throwing motion typically used by college quarterbacks. However, by the 2005 season most of the criticism had faded, and he developed into a consistent and precise passer. In fact, Young finished the 2005 regular season as the #1 rated passer in the nation, with a Quarterback Rating of 168.6." http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?div=4&rpt=IA_playerpasseff&site=org The second link will take you to the NCAA 1A National Player Report. At the time, Vince was second to Rudy Carpenter of Arizona State, who sported a QB rating of 175.0. These numbers are current as of January 2, 2006. He's ahead of Brady Quinn. He's ahead of Troy Smith. He's ahead of Drew Olson. And, yes, he is ahead of Heisman Trophy Winner Matt Leinart. The Trojan's website (http://usctrojans.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/leinart_matt00.html) state that Leinart had a 156.5 Rating when he won the Heisman in 2004. Granted, anybody can go pro and turn Wuerful. I'm just surprised that with all the information out there on Young, people are still ready to put him in a dumpster. I'm not saying he's the next great thing, but I think his performance to date gives plenty of reason for providing him an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inevitable Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Certain people are placing him in the dumpster, certain people are respecting his abilities but realize that college is not nearly the level as professional, unlike certain other professional sports *cough*basketball*cough* There is no question about it, Vince Young is a great prospect, but his attributes, in my opinion, as well as the opinion of a lot of other people, are viewed as equal to the attributes of Jason Campbell. What Campbell lacks in speed, he makes up for in technique. Say what you will about technique being over rated, but its what makes real pro's different from average guys. You think Tiki Barber is as talented as LT or Shawn Alexander? In my opinion, no. But you look at his technique, everything from the way he carries the ball to his pass blocking and receiving, its all technique. It's what makes him, a overall less talented player (in my opinion) as valuable as an LT or Edgerrin James. Basically what I'm getting at is, while JC may not be as athletic in the speed department as VY, his technique, which is fantastic, as mentioned before, is goign to take him places, and thank god it will be with our franchise. VY may end up having success with his crappy throwing form. Or the low release may end up plaguing him as it has many others, and he will have 10 batted balls a game (note: exaggeration for the slow minded). In either case, VY is a prospect, and he certainly wouldn't be worth trading all the way up for, imo, because I think we got Jason Campbell for a steal, seeing as how this season went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 You know what, forgive me. We as fans are obviously far too loyal to our players to give another player his props. Some of you will just continue to make the same cliche comments whether you know what you are talking about or not. Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Mikey, Young is such a talent at the college level he was allowed to play and thrive with a physical flaw in his passing motion that NO NFL team will allow him to play with. It will take a FULL year just to break him down and retrain him how to throw. All the while he has to learn and adjust to the league like all rookie QBs. I'm a HUGE Young fan. I think he's great. But, ALL people projecting him need to understand something. He will not be allowed to play in the NFL with that throwing motion. It won't happen. You can't throw up college numbers -- Heath Shuler had better numbers one year than Young did this year as an example -- and say you know enough. You don't on any player. But with Young you have one advantage of knowing something else. You KNOW no NFL team will let him play this way. They'll break him and hope he can play closer to conventionally because if he can't, he will do NOTHING in the NFL. The college game lacks the practice time or players to do anything to a guy like Young to limit his throwing motion. Pros practice all week. They game plan. They break down each play, calculate throwing angles, know where rush lanes need to be pushed to and how high you have to get your hands to take throwing lanes away from that type of motion. Young will be overwhelmed in the pros. The reason "short" QBs can't make it is because they don't get the ball over the defender. Young is a "short" QB because he throws low. Young will be taken apart and rebuilt as a passer in the pros. That's a fact. No one knows how he'll respond to that. Apparently Brown felt he needed to be left alone to thrive. In the pros if that's the case he'll be a huge bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 You know what, forgive me. We as fans are obviously far too loyal to our players to give another player his props. Some of you will just continue to make the same cliche comments whether you know what you are talking about or not. Nevermind. What is more cliche than saying because Young had a good college passer rating he will be good in the pros too? That's the most cliche and false statement there is. Don't be critical of others for acknowledging he's not perfect. He HAS a flaw his OWN coach told you he decided NOT to fix in college and Vince played well despite that. No NFL team will invest in a 6-5 QB with that mobility only to have him play like a 6-footer in the passing game. It won't happen. If Young threw like Campbell he'd be the finest prospect to ever enter the NFL. If Campbell ran like Young he would have been too. Players have flaws. Young does too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyf316 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 ... In either case, VY is a prospect, and he certainly wouldn't be worth trading all the way up for, imo, because I think we got Jason Campbell for a steal, seeing as how this season went. I can agree with you on several points and respect your opinion, since it's founded in logic, as compared to some of the other stuff I am seeing. Overall, I still think that ten years down the road, Young will be one of those living elites, and I, personally, am not convinced about Campbell yet. That has a lot to do with my being less familliar with Campbell than with Young. My posts are more directed at those who are flailing their arms in response, rather than taking the time to line up a jab, as you have. I'd rather discuss with you (as we have) than trade insults about topics none of us are experts on. Thanks - :applause: :applause: :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyf316 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 In the pros if that's the case he'll be a huge bust. As with inevitable's posts, I do appreciate you taking time to break down your position and supply the logic that was used to get there. Your points are all very, very valid, and I can agree with many of them. I do believe that Young is a great prospect. I never said he was polished. Hell, most college players who are ready for the NFL are only ready to learn the game on a higher level. I think that's where he is now. The point of my posts was not directed at those of you who have a different opinion based in logic, it was directed at those who were calling him garbage without providing anything resembling logical support for their opinion. My point of bringing up Young's passing improvements was simply that; to show that he's shown the propensity to improve his game. Imagine if he gets a coach who can train him to throw as you've described? And while it might take that year, as you describe, not too many QBs come into the big show and start right off the bat. Some weaker clubs need them to, some get the shot due to another starter's injury, but most ride the pine and refine technique. If he's likely to spend his first year in the league refining his technique, could it be worth considering trading for some pics to go after him? Thanks again for addressing the issues without ranting or trash talking. I really do appreciate the occasional civilized conversation on this site. :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inevitable Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 . That has a lot to do with my being less familliar with Campbell than with Young. I absolutley understand this, VY is a walking highlight reel, much like Reggie Bush. For starters, this vid of JC is great (obviously its going to be, its a highlight reel) http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft (click on the little camera next to his name) Unfortunatley its the only one I can find out there. JC is a very mobile guy. He isn't going to pull off the crazy 70 yarders, I don't think, but he is extremely accurate on the run, and he does provide that extra dimension and is able to move should he have to. Watching that video gets me excited about what JC can do with this organization, because not only has Gibbs taken the proper steps in ensuring his development, it just seems like the guy is tailor made for the offense we run. He's got a great deep ball, among other things. Vince Young is a phenomenal athlete, anyone who says different should be ignored, but I have to agree with Art that his throwing motion is going to be a major setback in his development, but certainly he could be there 5,10 years from now doing what he's doing now. Honest to God, he seems like a great guy, so I do wish him all the success in the world, but I think that throwing motion is going to hold him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O-11 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 My two cents worth on this subject is this: Vince was incredible tonight, but before we go lamenting over trading picks away for Campbell what I distinctly remember is one year ago many people around the nation were talking of A USC-Auburn National Championship instead of USC-Oklahoma; especially after the 55-10 beat down that ensued. The quarterback of that Auburn team? Jason Campbell. It is quite possible that if Auburn had played USC for that title (as many suggested and desired) we might have seen Campbell put on an impressive show as well. We'll never know, but I don't hesitate for one moment to think that Campbell would have done much better than White and Oklahoma did. After all, Auburn beat a very talented VTech team and finished undefeated at 14-0. That's no accident. My point is that we look at what Young did tonight and oooh and aaaah at him, while we so quickly forget that Campbell was doing the same kind of things last year. BTW - inevitable - post #35....excellent. I agree with Art and SkinsHokies about the mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Do you see his release????? And hes not a better runner than Vick... I would never waste a high pick on him I saw him release and complete a lot of passes, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyf316 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Honest to God, he seems like a great guy, so I do wish him all the success in the world, but I think that throwing motion is going to hold him back. Well... JC ain't slow, I'll give him that. Thanks for the video link. I'll try to do some more research on him tomorrow when my eyes are working a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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