IrepDC Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Mr. Art, I never said he wasn't flawed. I never even specified what cliche comments I was referring to. I understand your points. I think I was being reasonable in my assesment. I never said he would be Payton Manning. I mentioned three QB's who I thought he might resemble as a Pro. Vick because of speed. McNabb because of mobility in the pocket. And Culpepper because of size and ability to break tackles. If my analysis seems cliche to you then so be it. I, when saying cliche, was referring to the posters who immediately claimed that Young could NOT throw, that he was another Mike Vick, that he's a NFL bust, and he's all scrambles with no passing ability. THAT to me was cliche, since few of those assesments are accurate. Again, I don't think everyone would be trashing Young if I hadn't mentioned Campbell. Of course people are gonna try to trash Yound a little to make themselves feel better about having Campbell. I don't think it is necessary, they are both nice prospects but at this point IN MY UNBIASED OPINION Young is the better prospect. Yes Young is raw, but, SO IS CAMPBELL. That's the main reason why we drafted him now, so he could develop for a FEW years. If you put both of these guys on an NFL field RIGHT NOW, Young would outperform Campbell. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazhog Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Do you see his release????? And hes not a better runner than Vick... I would never waste a high pick on him I AGREE...:applause: I don't think he'll make it in the NFL as a QB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorykrs Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Well riddle me this all of you Vince Young Lovers. Did you take a gander at the offensive lineman that were protecting this dude? If you want to augment this team of ours then perhaps we should try to get a couple of those beasts that held USC helpless. In my humble opinion, they were the ones that made this year special for Texas. It got to the point in this game where even when USC sent a full fledged blitz he had time to go through his progressions and then decide to run. I take nothing away from Vince, but that team has many more moving parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorykrs Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 One more thing, how many Heisman Trophy Winners (within past 15 years) have held the Lombardi Trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyf316 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Well riddle me this all of you Vince Young Lovers. Did you take a gander at the offensive lineman that were protecting this dude? If you want to augment this team of ours then perhaps we should try to get a couple of those beasts that held USC helpless. Granted, nobody sails the seven seas alone. The linemen for UT and USC were both pretty impressive all year, UT especially so. The reason we hadn't brought them up here is only because the topic of the thread was about Young. You're correct, 100% though. If we continue to improve our O-Line... Welcome back, Hogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inevitable Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 If you put both of these guys on an NFL field RIGHT NOW, Young would outperform Campbell. JMO. Here's where I don't agree with you. All your comparisons, in my opinion are valid. However, Jason Campbell also has the mobility of McNabb and the size of Culpepper. He just doesn't have the blazing speed. In the Pro's, that blazing speed is going to be incredibly useful. But not every play is going to be a quarterback designed run. And in the NFL, teams are going to have very athletic guys (i.e. Urlacher, Lavar Arrington, Jonathon Vilma, Al Gold, etc etc) spying him. Whether Young wants it or not, his running game is going to decrease as he enters the NFL. Look at Alex Smith. Running was a huge part of his game in college. In the professionals, its nearly eliminated. Thats because guys like Lavar Arrington can chase him down and sprain his knee when they tackle him. I feel that Jason Campbells throwing form which to many pro scouts is more important then pure speed (look: Drew Bledsoe. Eli Manning. Peyton Manning compared to Antwaan Randle El, Eric Crouch from Nebraska, Arnez Battle) makes him the better prospect then Vince Young's athleticism. That, to me, is why you see the Carson Palmers, the Peyton Mannings, and the Drew Bree's having such amazing success, while the Michael Vicks are not. As great as it is to have such incredible athletic talent, as I've stated before, technique is the real distinguishing factor in the NFL. Because 2 tenths of a second in the 40 isn't going to make to much of a difference to a Linebacker who takes a perfect pursuit angle and knocks the QB out when he tries to scramble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Once again I'll chime in I may be one of 1 percent of this board who actually saw Jason Campbell play LIVE I got lucky enough to sit in the lower bowl, about 20 rows up at the 2005 Sugar Bowl when Tech played Auburn Here is what I observed -JC has a fabulous arm. He can make deep throws, has great arch on the deep ball, and stick his passes in tight spaces. He had to do all of that against VT because the Auburn running attack was slowed down that game -JC moves VERY WELL in the pocket. On a key third and 17 in the first half, JC avoided the rush calmly, took a few steps to his left, and fired the ball 30 yards down field on a rope to a streaking WR -JC can pick up first downs with his feet when neccessary -JC is also clutch. Caddiliac and Brown were not the world beaters in the Sugar Bowl that they were during the regular season. JC stepped up and won that game for Auburn with clutch plays I have not been lucky enough to see Vince Young play live. I have seen many of his games however, and as a passer he simply does not do it for me. He doesn't have a great deep ball, doesn't really stick the ball tight in spaces, and really has a great game as a result of the read option attack Texas employs Vince Young is incredibly clutch, and clearly makes big plays, WITH HIS LEGS Not as much with his arm Micheal Vick as a Redshirt freshmen led the nation in passing efficiencey. His arm is stronger then VY's and he throws a much better deep ball. He made big plays with his legs and ARM in the 2000 Sugar Bowl (the deep bomb to Andre Davis in the 2nd quarter being an example) He is just dumb and cannot get a grasp of any offense (Tech almost moved him to WR his freshmen year) Stating that, it shows how little college stats really mean, and natural ability really mean in projecting an NFL QB. Vick doesn't have the mental acumen even though Vick was called the "holy grail of QB's" by Kiper. Young does not have the throwing motion, nor mechanics that Vick or Jason Campbell have Vince Young was outstanding tonight. Absolutley amazing with the plays he made. I got lucky enough to watch him many times, and watch Jason Campbell live I still go with JC every single day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyf316 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I still go with Jason Campbell, he will be a terrific player for us Good post, well thought out and articulated. Thanks -:applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 The only reason I think Young would outperform Campbell RIGHT NOW is: They both are still VERY young and would both make plenty of mistakes. I think Young has more BIG PLAY potential right now. I don't think either of them could pick an NFL defense apart right now, but, young would make one maybe two big plays with his legs plays that Campbell probably wouldn't. I just don't understand how people seem to look at Young's glass as half empty and Campbell's as half full. All in this thread I have heard. -Young is too raw(exact thing said about Campbell out of college) -Young has a good team around him(Campbell had two running backs named Carnell Williams and Ronnie Brown to keep the D honest) -Young would need a year or two to learn technique(sounds like Gibbs' current plan for Campbell) -Young is another Mike Vick(when in reality they are two totally different players) All I'm sayin' is, if we're gonna have a debate PLEASE try to have an unbiased one. It makes things a lot less frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 The only reason I think Young would outperform Campbell RIGHT NOW is:They both are still VERY young and would both make plenty of mistakes. I think Young has more BIG PLAY potential right now. I don't think either of them could pick an NFL defense apart right now, but, young would make one maybe two big plays with his legs plays that Campbell probably wouldn't. I just don't understand how people seem to look at Young's glass as half empty and Campbell's as half full. All in this thread I have heard. -Young is too raw(exact thing said about Campbell out of college) -Young has a good team around him(Campbell had two running backs named Carnell Williams and Ronnie Brown to keep the D honest) -Young would need a year or two to learn technique(sounds like Gibbs' current plan for Campbell) -Young is another Mike Vick(when in reality they are two totally different players) All I'm sayin' is, if we're gonna have a debate PLEASE try to have an unbiased one. It makes things a lot less frustrating. You are missing the point young one Campbell is a BETTER PASSER then Vince Young Vince Young's big play potential comes from his LEGS, not his ARM Jason Campbell can make big plays with his ARM And in the NFL, that is what matters for a QB. A guy who can throw the deep ball, not a guy who can make the right read on a read option And calling Vick and Young 2 different players in college is silly. If anything, Vick proved more with his arm while he was in college then Young did Vick showed he could make all the throws. Vince Young has not, yet As prospects coming out of college I would rank Vick 1, JC 2, and Young 3 Vick simply cannot read an NFL D, nor pick up an offense. I think JC will be able to pick up an offense better then Vince Young because he played in FOUR systems in FOUR years, and his last system was an NFL based WCO, while Vince Young runs the read option offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inevitable Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 The only reason I think Young would outperform Campbell RIGHT NOW is:They both are still VERY young and would both make plenty of mistakes. I think Young has more BIG PLAY potential right now. I don't think either of them could pick an NFL defense apart right now, but, young would make one maybe two big plays with his legs plays that Campbell probably wouldn't. I think that for every big play Vince Young makes with his legs, he's going to take a TON of huge hits. That's going to effect his longevity, if NOTHING else (i.e. comfort in the pocket, patience, play development; look: Patrick Ramsey) Jason Campbell is not always going to look to make the move with his feet, he's got great pocket presence, and moves laterally very well, allowing a play to develop. That, in my opinion, would make him more effective in a PROFESSIONALLY game planned football match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsunami001 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 last 2 rose bowls, vince young 0 td passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 last 2 rose bowls, vince young 0 td passes And that right there is the biggest stat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O-11 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 As great as it is to have such incredible athletic talent, as I've stated before, technique is the real distinguishing factor in the NFL. Because 2 tenths of a second in the 40 isn't going to make to much of a difference to a Linebacker who takes a perfect pursuit angle and knocks the QB out when he tries to scramble. And to go along with this I offer up the fact that one man on an NFL defense can make all the difference. I live here in Carolina and I know for a fact that the Panthers drafted Thomas Davis just to spy Mike Vick. I know they use Davis for more but from the lips of the organization down here that's really why he was drafted. The Panthers face Atlanta twice a year and they have been the Panther's biggest nemesis. Once you have someone who can keep up with a highly mobile QB, then *poof*, magically, all of those receivers aren't as wide open anymore. If and when this happens, a guy like Urlacher will make manburgers out of alot of scramblers. Just like in baseball, first and second year guys often have a great deal of success, but, then, the oppositon catches up. When that happens, a QB better have more than just his "wheels" to fall back on. Vince is great but Campbell's qualities as a passer are better. In the end that will pay off for guys like Campbell. Campbell reminds me of a Warren Moon or a Doug Williams. Not overly mobile yet highly effective passers with way above average mechanics. One is near the top of all time passing yards and one is a Super Bowl champion. I'll take that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 For those who don't follow college football, Vince Young beat Ohio State with his ARM. Ohio State literally has 3 legit NFL linebacker prospects who slowed down Youngs running. Guess what, when Young realized they were committed to stopping the run he started picking the Ohio State secondary apart. He won the game on a beatifully thrown deep ball to a sophmore receiver. Say what you may, but Ohio State's defense was not a push over and Young still had his way with them in crunch time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inevitable Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 And to go along with this I offer up the fact that one man on an NFL defense can make all the difference. I live here in Carolina and I know for a fact that the Panthers drafted Thomas Davis just to spy Mike Vick. I know they use Davis for more but from the lips of the organization down here that's really why he was drafted. The Panthers face Atlanta twice a year and they have been the Panther's biggest nemesis. That is an incredibly interesting tid-bit, of course it makes sense in hindsight. It's interesting to see the success the Panthers had this year against the Falcons (24-6, 44-11). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 For those who don't follow college football, Vince Young beat Ohio State with his ARM. Ohio State literally has 3 legit NFL linebacker prospects who slowed down Youngs running. Guess what, when Young realized they were committed to stopping the run he started picking the Ohio State secondary apart. He won the game on a beatifully thrown deep ball to a sophmore receiver. Say what you may, but Ohio State's defense was not a push over and Young still had his way with them in crunch time. That wasn't a catch :laugh: Nor was it really a deep ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 last 2 rose bowls, vince young 0 td passes :doh: last 2 rose bowls, Vince Young 2 MVP's and 2 VICTORIES! Would you rather him throw 5 tds and lose both games??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inevitable Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 That wasn't a catch :laugh:Nor was it really a deep ball Semantics aside, the fact that VY did have a good game against Ohio State definately is a plus in his book. However, I think the Virginia Tech of 2004 defense is comparable, if not equal, to the Ohio State defense of 2005, and Jason Campbell, as mentioned before, took that game on his shoulders and won it. There is no doubting that VY is an amazing player. But it comes down to whether or not he is goign to be able to have success with his current technique. Its a gamble, just like any player is a gamble. Many teams are going to have a go at him. I think the real question is going to be if he goes out next year, does he or a Brady Quinn type go first. I think that will be a similar kind of answer to our current predicament, as Brady Quinn is a technically sound passer, great size, good mobility, very similar to JC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyf316 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 last 2 rose bowls, vince young 0 td passes 2005 Rose Bowl: 30-40, 267 yds 19 Rush, 200 yds, 3 TDs 2004 Rose Bowl: 16-28, 180 yds 21 Rush, 192 yds, 4 TDs That's 447 passing yards, and 392 rushing yards in two clutch games. That's 7 TDs, regardless of how he got them. What's the context of your statement supposed to be? :rubeyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixote Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 we won't know what kind of NFL quarter back he is until he gets to that point... we'd have to see where he goes and who he is under, but he will have a spot, thats for sure. but his performance during this game was quite amazing. but I wouldn't wanna trade anyone for him at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boysetsfire Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Alright, I have an argument to end all arguments on this issue. A couple of nights ago I had a dream where I saw the QB depth chart for the Redskins and 1st on the chart was Jason Campbell. Then a deep voice came out of no where and said to me "this is going to be one special player". I mean come on, you CANNOT argue with that validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O-11 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 That is an incredibly interesting tid-bit, of course it makes sense in hindsight. It's interesting to see the success the Panthers had this year against the Falcons (24-6, 44-11). Another funny stat is that the only touchdown the Falcons got was courtesy of Matt Schaub at the end of the game. It was 44-3 up until then. Mike Vick was pulled. I feel as though I'm becoming too negative on Vince now which was not my intention. He's great....but Ohio State doesn't play in the NFL and that is the first and only look they have ever seen of him in person. It's funny how the media will go crazy with this guy now when just a day ago we were wrapping up a month long slurp fest of the "Reggie Bush sweepstakes". Now Corso and everyone on ESPN is all about some Vince. Reggie who? How fickle, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inevitable Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Can't say I anything but agree with you O-11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixote Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Alright, I have an argument to end all arguments on this issue. A couple of nights ago I had a dream where I saw the QB depth chart for the Redskins and 1st on the chart was Jason Campbell. Then a deep voice came out of no where and said to me "this is going to be one special player". I mean come on, you CANNOT argue with that validity. haha no you cannot!!:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.