The offense.... it's Brunell.

[SkinsGuy]

I am not going to post how wrong I was. Just as I have never posted how right I am.

What's wrong with you people? :laugh:

Nothing wrong with me. My hope and faith in this team is still intact.

Just the next time I see you berate a poster for being down on this team or this coach or express complete hopelessness in the future, pardon me when I roll my eyes at the irony of it.

[altair4]

I think this is a valid assessment. One other comment is the speed of the game....when the ball is snapped, bodies star flying. Brunell has a 'comfort zone' of about 5 to 7 seconds, and if the D disrupts that timing, he finds it difficult to adjust.

This is why dictating tempo in the runnung game is key. It slows down the initial 5 seconds. If B would SELL the play action, or step up in the pocket, he might do better.

I am not ready to concede this game, but Brunell is a limiting factor...the Cards all blitzed to the left side, and rattled him sufficiently to cause him to throw 3 picks...

[Sebowski]

Yesterday, the Card defense yesterday was PRIME to attack via the passing game. Almost 70% of the game they were in 1-deep coverage. Corners playing man and 1 safety deep providing coverage over top.

This was absolutely KILLING me on Sunday at the game. I couldn't believe we didn't try to exploit that even once. Is Mark not allowed to audible at all? At first I kept thinkng "here it comes. I see it, Mark has to see it. Audible, touchdown." Instead we stuck with the play and ran it right up the gut at the 10 guys they had in the box. I was very sad when I realized we were never going to attack that secondary.

[PCRoughrider]

Brunell is more than adequate.

[CHUBAKAH]

While I agree that we don't have much of a chance against Dallas, I disagree with why. Injuries have got the best of us this year nothing more, nothing less. While Patton didn’t seem to be open much, and make a lot of catches, he was respected by defenses which loosened them up. We don’t have that #2 guy anymore running routes.

We have all seen a decline in Brunell over the last few games, but I wouldn’t say he is done just yet.

[Ghost of]

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114959&highlight=Brunell+deep

Yeah, Tony. I agree with you on #1. When he was playing well, Mark wasn't as uncomfortable in the pocket, he was stepping up or at times was just a bit more 'lively' and could get away with being inconsistent.

As usual on this board, the truth gets attacked and attacked until it can be denied no longer. Like the saying goes, only Nixon could go to China. Even if I had gone to the game and posted this, I'd be getting ripped 10x worse. Fortunately, it's not about me.

It's about Brunell's play falling off. Since he won't be pulled even if he hands the ball to the opposing team and helps block on the way to the end zone, we might as well hope he finds some of his previous form out there.

And SHF, thanks for the props. I'd also add that the above linked thread, while not on par with the "downfall" thread is rather prescient.

I think I'm going to go to CafePress and get one of those "Ghost was right." T-shirts I spoke of before the season began.

[PCRoughrider]

While I agree that we don't have much of a chance against Dallas...

Thank you for being so optimistic.

Dallas has beaten us over the past decade plus with far more problems than we currently have.

Not only do we have a chance, we will win this game, regardless of who's injured or who some fans think is playing poorly.

[Bonez3]

I am not going to post how wrong I was. Just as I have never posted how right I am.

QUOTE]

When you've congratulated me on beating 400 Redskins fans in the Man contest last year... and being in the top 10 all 4 years .

"

One year... I would have won... except the 3rd place guy earned the bonus points on the last game of the year.... and jumped me

[Ghost of]

I am not going to post how wrong I was. Just as I have never posted how right I am.

QUOTE]

Bonez, as one might expect from you, your posts were over the line and though it isn't a constant, you do like to attack people a good deal.

I'm kind of shocked you didn't get banned from the events of this thread.

[Sebowski]

For those so convinced we will lose to Dallass, hit up a casino (there are plenty online)and bet the savings. We are favored.

[Ghost of]

For those so convinced we will lose to Dallass, hit up a casino (there are plenty online)and bet the savings. We are favored.

Oddly enough, I'm not convinced. Bears show that you can win without a great passing game. Depends on how the other elements come together.

But that doesn't invalidated DH's analysis.

Let me also say just from a couple of the highlights I saw Mark overlook open receivers (wide open) and that was just from a few highlights.

[Bonez3]

Bonez, as one might expect from you, your posts were over the line and though it isn't a constant, you do like to attack people a good deal.

I'm kind of shocked you didn't get banned from the events of this thread.

Attack/ Argue,

come on Nibbs, loosen up baby.

[dinzelwashington]

does anyone see fear in brunells eyes, the way hes jumpy in the pocket when he isnt even getting rushed.. signs of old age?? i know jC wont be scared in the pocket... o well.. this is goiing to be a good game.. we arent going to get killed by the cowboys tho.. hell mofo NO!!!

[Sebowski]

Oddly enough, I'm not convinced. Bears show that you can win without a great passing game. Depends on how the other elements come together.

But that doesn't invalidated DH's analysis.

Let me also say just from a couple of the highlights I saw Mark overlook open receivers (wide open) and that was just from a few highlights.

I'm not trying to invalidate his analysis. I agree with most of it (as evidenced by my previous post in this thread).

I just don't see how anyone can think we have ZERO shot against Dallass, and if they do they should go ahead and get rich quick.

[Jumbo]

2 receivers.... 1 to the left (Brunell's good side).. 1 to the right.

The receiver to the right has man-coverage.... the receiver to the left has a corner.... with the safety covering overtop.

And the linebackers are dropping into zone coverage in the middle of the field.

The left side of the field is convoluted. That's why you see people catching tipped passes.

The right side of the field... the receiver enjoys man coverage. Brunell just never looks there. For whatever reason.

Did you form any opinion regarding our pass blocking competency in your development of the "Brunell not being comfortable in the pocket" point?

Obviously I'm wondering how much inconsistency there prompts Brunell's scrambling as protection collapses and blitzers arrive, with the point being if we are stuck with Mark what can we do to improve the pass blocking. I'm stumped.

I think a question about pass play designs would be great for Gibbs when we get him in another chat. Your analysis enjoys your established credibility, but I’ll suggest that you’re still noting only a part, and likely a significant part, of the passing game limitations we have.

Die Hard, I have regularly respected and appreciated reading your views, including this one. Regardless, I choose not to accept the "we're doomed” approach under any condition. I mean, if it were more important to be “realistic” or “correct”, or there were some gain in some other material way, I could see stating the “no chance” scenario if one really believes it to be true.

But I don't see any gain or even logic in that when the only thing that really matters is for the Redskins to achieve their goal of a win. The very real daily occurrences of people transcending limitations and over-achieving through heroic efforts would disappear from history if the logic of “no chance” prevailed. And even when projecting that attitude is understandable and factually supportable, in the end it is very unsatisfying and pointless from this fans perspective.

Oh yeah, by the way.... :dallasuck

[Jumbo]

Guys, for those who post hate threads, this is a perfect example of how you can be critical of our team WITHOUT BEING A HATER

DH, while I disagree with some of your points in the original post, I love the post itself, how you wrote and how you made a point and backed it up with evidence instead of the nonsense we have seen posted on here of late

Ghost posted a great Brunell critical thread at the start of the 2004 season. I hope some posters here use the example you set, awesome

Well put Hokie. There is a lot of reasonable discussion on this thread, not name-calling, irrational claims, or unsupported misrepresentations. Hmmm. Where are those guys?

[seancarter]

Well put Hokie. There is a lot of reasonable discussion on this thread, not name-calling, irrational claims, or unsupported misrepresentations. Hmmm. Where are those guys?

No it's not Brunell...that do it for you?

[Jumbo]

This is not a knock on the moderators but how come whatever they say about football is taken as the gospel?? You guys act like these moderators are ex NFL or college assistants or something. They moderate a message board guys.

As far as Die Hards Thread.....

I've seen pretty much this same exact thought about our offense and Brunell posted about 100 times but just by some average Joe and every single time that poster was absolutely drug through the mud and called a "HATER"

Yes, "HATER" that was the cool word for yesterday after people dared to say, "wow I know we won but my god we have some issues"

I actually agree with Die Hard's post, i'm just confused by the different reactions a moderator gets as opposed to a regular member gets for having the same ideas.

You make a good point about hypocrisy dcoles. But DH's post holds a lot of water by virtue of his supported arguments, not just his track record which carried the same standard of usually well-supported opinions. BTW, I strongly disagreed with his tone, and questioned some of his content, just as I would others, and said so clearly in this thread. No matter what their status, no reasonably well-adjusted poster here expects sheep, nor do they solicit asses. We'll leave cavorting with the livestock to those barnyard-breeders coming to FedEx on Sunday

:dallasuck

[bigajb]

I think that Brunell has seen his better days!! Let Campbell get some experience, heck he can't do any worse.

[Jumbo]

Tell you what... I intended on doing it this week... but I didn't want to bring both my digital camera and my digital camcorder (with 800x digital zoom ).

But since Tarhog will bring his camera... I'll bring my digital camcorder. And all I'll do is tape the pass routes/coverage.

You guys can see for yourselves.

Too cool :applause:

[IrepDC]

This F****** thread sucks.

1) Die Hard with as much respect as you wamt on the internet. What do you know. You question route design... Right whatever. There's been nine routes in the history of the game. Gibbs runs a standard package, nothing new.

2) The amount of People agreeing with this it might as well be a Cowboy board. It's truly pathetic.

98% of the NFL has gaping holes, so do we. OUR TEAM ATHLETES SUCK-THERE. So does half the league. STOP F****** TRYING TO MAKE POINTS LIKE YOUR ANALYSIS OUR INSIGHT MIGHT HELP.

What do we have. Well, here's my insight (Still ain't worth S***) We got a gutty QB giving his heart this season. A dedicated and commited coach, dedicated to the fans probably more, no, definetely more than any coach in the league. And a bunch of young , overpaid kids who seem to have started to believe in him.

Y- post a thread how we are gonna get killed and let these 'fans' agree.

This site is starting to make me sick.

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :applause: :notworthy :notworthy

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Thank YOU. As I was reading through this thread I was thinking the EXACT things. WTF, I don't give a **** what anyone tells me I'm not gonna give up on my team. And I'm not gonna compliment anyone who says we're about to lose. To the Cowboys at that. Are you guys serious? It is a VERY VERY VERY GOOD THING that this Die Hard guy is JUST a fan. No offense but he has a "loser" mentality. Now I'm in no way a homer, but I'm not gonna say my team is about to get creamed because some guy with a lot of posts says so.

Die Hards analysis is not what bothers me, he is not a player nor a coach so he still doesn't really know what is going on the field imo, he could be right or wrong about what he observed. Its just the "losing" this week cooment that erked me. People flame me when I critisize Arrington but this guy says WE ARE GONNA LOSE TO DALLAS and people applaud him. What kind of fans are YOU?

Zip-it-up and Zip-it-OUT!

[visionary]

You're hyping up the defense. Which is warranted. I like Williams defense very much.

But now you're neglecting the injuries. Springs, Harris, Rogers, Arrington, Griffin, Saleava.

The backfield had an extraordinary game on Sunday. They batted down a lot of balls. But some of those guys are dinged up right now.

Just a really bad time for injuries.

Now, I agree about our chances looking bad and the passing game being frighteningly worriesome...but weren't Springs, Harris, Rogers, Salevea, and Arrington injured during the Cardinals game already...and the defense seemed to do ok.

Arrington will probably be back for the Cowboys, and I'm not sure about Griffin...also what is the latest on Thrash, because he might help the receiving game a bunch if he comes back.

I agree that it looks like Dallas may beat us up, but we shouldn't just be assuming that they will. Who would have thought that we would beat the Vikings last year with a banged up and depleted secondary and nothing to play for, while they were playing for their division title? (I think they were...anyway)

Who among us really thought that we would beat Dallas the first time when the fourth quarter rolled around? Anything is possible, and to just assume defeat, especially when there is still a chance at the playoffs and such, no matter how badly Brunell is playing, is almost shameful, especially this early in the week.

And even if we don't make it to the playoffs, personally, I would feel a lot better with Dallas out of it and I think most of the rest of us would to. Winning this game however it might be done, through skill, or luck, magic, or miracles, would really put a limp in Dallas' playoff legs.

Now they may beat us, they may even blow us out, but we are not going to just sit around predicting doom before even giving the team a chance to fight their asses off, are we?

I don't think so...we want to beat Dallas we want to at least give our team a chance to do it and we want to watch those hated Cowboys and their nasty coach and their dirty players and their slimey owner walk out of our stadium with their heads hung low and weeping bitterly...or am I just alone in this?

While I admire you posts on this subject and think that you are correct in most of it, this is not the time to give up.

This is the time to dig in, fortify the walls, and man the battlements!

WE WANT DALLAS!

[IrepDC]

Die Hard-

As a long time poster on this board myself, I respect your opinion. but you are wrong about the fortunes of this team. I think you caught Brunell on a bad day. He only had 5 INTs before this game. According to Gibbs the last 2 INTs were the result of poor route running.

Who are we to believe, you or Gibbs? I'll take the side of the HoF coach over your deductions.

No one has ever said Gibbs is infalliable. But that his experience and knowledge on this team and football far out weigh our own. You may feel standing on the sideline gives you some keen insight on this team that someone sitting at, say, the 50-yard line doesn't have. But it really doesn't. It doesn't put you in the coaches' meetings or the film room. The only places where this team and thier games can be truly broken down and analyzed.

Like I said, you are entitled to your opinion, but all your thread accomplished was giving the chicken-littles, the nay-sayers, and the conspiracy theorists a more moderate, reasonable voice to hide behind and say "Yeah, yeah... what he said!".

But by writing this:

You have signaled your surrender. You have officially quit on this team when we are close to playing one of our biggest games against our most hated rival. I guess the rest of us "bush leaguers" will cheer double hard in place for those who have already given up hope.

I only hope that when the Redskins win this Sunday (and we DEFINITELY WILL win), that you put up another post stating how wrong you were about the Dallas game and for underestimating Gibbs.

I agree......I agree. :notworthy

Zp-it-up and Zip-it-OUT!

[IrepDC]

Pretty much, I have to disagree with most of the posters in this thread. I actually think Brunell is the KEY to this offense. I like that, excluding the Cardinals game, he is smart with the football. He came into week 14 with only 5 ints and his current 8 still isn't bad. If the big play isn't open, he doesn't force it, he will smartly hit his checkdowns. That is a good thing. Think about our team, we only have one deep threat, in Moss, and a lot of reliable underneath receivers, in Cooley, Sellers and in recent weeks Royals. We don't have the personal to be gunslinging right now.

This team is built to win games how the Steelers do now and how the Bucs did in '02 and how the Ravens did in 2000. Our running game has been great and our defense has been solid. We DON'T need Brunell to win games for us, we need him to be smart with the ball and manage the game. And Brunell does make big plays when he needs to. Anytime we have been down this year, excluding the Giants game, Brunell has kept us in the game. You have to give the man his props for games like Seattle, Denver, Kansas City and especially Tampa where this whole offense simply dominated the #1 defense. Just because Brunell wasn't throwing bombs against STL and AZ in no need to get worried, he didn't need to. When have we been down and Brunell not step up? Seriously. I personally wanted to see what Ramsey could do early in the season. But when Brunell came in I was happy with his performance and yes I still am.

Guys, we are 3 games away from the playoffs, screw all of the analysis and speculation. Screw all of the arguing and disputes WITH FELLOW REDSKIN FANS. Right now we are 7-6, could be anywhere from 11-2 to 2-11, but we are 7-6. EVERY team has injuries and issues at this time of the season, this is football and this is the NFL. It comes down to who wants it more right now, it's all mental. Are we, as fans and as a team, gonna lay down and let the playoffs slip outta our hands(because our playoff birth IS in OUR hands), because that is what it sounds like you men are ready to do. Right now, we as REDSKIN FANS, need to forget all of the negatives about our team and be optimistic with all the positives. Right now is the time to be a homer imo. We did what we needed to do to be in contention late in the season, why not ban together right now as fans and help our team make this playoff push.

I say we NOT ONLY BEAT DALLAS WE KILL THEM. I am claiming this victory right now with full confidence. And if you're not with me, you can only be against me. Where do you stand?

I have NO fear, I-WANT-DALLAS!!!

Zip-it-up and Zip-it-OUT!

[Major Harris]

wow, if a newbie would have posted the first post, he would have gotten crushed by the swarm.

die hard, you make some interesting observations. hopefully, we will make some adjustments, but i think that one bad game makes for a tough observation. i also believe that we are the kind of team built to win by running the ball, playing solid defense, and smart play by a QB who manages the game. brunell has made very few dumb throws this year.

i will give the brunell haters, (of which i was one last year, i'll admit), this much: we could have gotten a trent-dilfer type qb for a more trent dilfer-like price.

i'm a die hard too. and i said we'd get crushed before the 1st dallas game.