Remember, We were 3-7 last year.

[s0crates]

Hey Guys. There is a lost of pessemistic talk on the board right now, and understandably so. The 'skins didn't show up at all for this one and now find themselves playing catchup. Incredibly, I still see plenty of cause for optimisim.

I'm sure you're wondering how this can possibly be so. . . bear with me.

This is an improving team. Let us not forget, last year they were 3-7 at this point in the season. They were done, finished, toast. This year they are 5-5 and have to be considered in the hunt.

AND make no mistake, The Redskins are still in the hunt.

They are 2-1 in the division. They are 4-1 at home. They play both the divison leaders, the Cowboys and Giants, at home. One presumes we have a shot given our record in the division and at home.

Not only that, but the Giants and Cowboys play eachother. Presumeably, one of them will lose that game too.

Aside from these two all important games, the Redskins have two very beatable opponents in Philly and Arizona. Philly is already running out of gas, imagine how they'll look by week 16. Arizona played well this week, but they are still Arizona. Given their sorry state, it seems any 5-5 team has a reasonable chance of beating these two teams.

That brings me to next weeks opponent. San Diego is a good AFC opponent. The 'skins have, admittedly, struggled against AFC opponents. But they are coming to our place, where we are a very good 4-1. Given the fight our team has shown all season, I think they'll be plenty hungry coming off two close losses. San Diego could be complacent coming off a big win (Marty's team tend to finish flat). If they let their guard down for just a minute, they are ours. The momentum of that vicotry would propel us into the soft part of our schedule. This may be a bit optimistic but is far from inconceivable. As always, a lot hinges on next week.

In sum: The Redskins are an improving team. Not only that, they are decidedly IN the postseason hunt in late November. Given the turmoil of the past decade, I'm happy with that.

[DEFENSEGURU]

The Redskins have improved over last year because they have Moss and Cooley is better. But this is NOT an improving team. At this point the team actually is going nowhere. They are an 8-8 team with some older guys like Brunell and Shawn Springs and Salavea who have overachieved if anything.

There isn't a number 1 draft pick and there are virutally no worthwhile defensive linemen in free agency. But even if they were.....this team should be called the "WASHINGTON FUMBLERS". And the Skins also need a new QB who can "make it happen" instead of "make excuses".

[Xtreme56]

Not doubt they are improving and they may have a better record now than this time last year but the NFC is tighter this year also, I don't think any 8-8 teams will break into the playoffs this year. Hopefully they'll get on a roll and finish strong.

[ThornWithin]

If you were 5-5 with after a slow start, this would be an improving team.

But you started out 3-0.

Teams that are improving do NOT start 3-0, then drop 5 of their next 7. I mean, think about the last seven games.

Two wins.

One against the San Francisco 49ers at home. Outside of playing the Texans at home, that's the easiest game any team in the NFL will have all season.

The other against the Eagles, however, this was the Eagles IMMEDIATELY after the TO suspension, fighting, and such. They were a mess. Even then, it came down to the final drive.

As far as I can see, if you can lose to the Raiders at home, you can lose any game left on your schedule. You'll lose next week considering that the Chargers are now one of the hottest teams in the NFL, and you're possibly the coldest. I think that you'll split the games against the Rams and Cardinals, mainly because they are both road games and you'll be coming off of a huge huge skid.

Then the NFC East gauntlet. If I'm right, you'll be 6-7 going into the run, with little more than a distant Wildcard spot on the line, and a team that really hasn't showed any guts when its up against the wall. I think we'll redeem ourselves for week two (Now that its clear that outside of Santana Moss and Chris Cooley, who are both great players, the Skins have NO weapons), dashing any remaining chance of the playoffs you may have.

Once the playoffs are out of the question, the skins drop their last two games to the G-Men and the Eagles. I'm willing to accept the possibility that you could win two games out of the final six, but I'm saying 6-10.

Which was my preseason prediction for Washington, by the way. I said that Dallas would be 9-7, but I'll be happy if I'm wrong on that one

Oh, and before you call me crazy for saying you'll drop at least 4, if not five of your final six, keep in mind you've dropped five of your last seven. If you won two of your final six games, that would actually be improvement.

[s0crates]

Your not still mad about that Monday night game are you?

I see ya'll losing to Denver Turkey day. Denver is just a better team. Then, of course, you lose to the Giants on the short week (you know its coming). You might muster a win against the Chiefs at home (I doubt it). Then you lose at FedEx (Santana Moss will still be faster than Roy Williams I presume).

Having lost 4 in a row, it won't much matter when you lose in Carolina. Your consolation victory over the Rams will give us the wild card birth over them.

(This argument follows the same form as yours Thornwithin. Its actually a fallacious argument. Its called the straw-man fallacy. . . and its not very convincing).

[John224]

Much improved from last year and sorry to make superbowl predictions but I seriously think thats where we;ll be next year. I don't know it we'll win it though. Oh yeah, im glad we're not going to the superbowl this year because it would be against the colts and that would be a loss for sure.

[ThornWithin]

Your not still mad about that Monday night game are you?

I see ya'll losing to Denver Turkey day. Denver is just a better team. Then, of course, you lose to the Giants on the short week (you know its coming). You might muster a win against the Chiefs at home (I doubt it). Then you lose at FedEx (Santana Moss will still be faster than Roy Williams I presume).

Having lost 4 in a row, it won't much matter when you lose in Carolina. Your consolation victory over the Rams will give us the wild card birth over them.

(This argument follows the same form as yours Thornwithin. Its actually a fallacious argument. Its called the straw-man fallacy. . . and its not very convincing).

I'm not one bit sore about the first game, because honestly, I'll take a loss to Washington any day, considering that now we're 7-3 and "in control of our own destiny" and you're 5-5 and against the wall.

I think we will lose one of the two games, either at home against Denver or at New York, but I'm not sure. We usually play well on Turkey Day, but the Broncos are very good. As for the Giants, I'm not convinced. They lost to the Vikings at HOME, which tells me that we can beat them too. Also, its not a short week, we play the Broncos this Thursday (November 24th) and the Giants December 4th, 10 days later. It's actually a longer week with more time to prepare, which might be exactly what we need. If we manage to win the next two games, we're a lock to win the NFC East.

I base my predictions of the skins off of where each team has gone since week four. Since week four, the skins have only managed wins against an awful San Fran team and a distraught Eagles club, both at home (2-5). The Cowboys on the other hand have managed to win every game outside of Seattle, which was a game we had in hand and absolutely threw away in the closing moments (5-1).

But I'll admit that there are a LOT of scary games left on our schedule. The Rams game is really the only "gimmie" we have left.

We'll see how it pans out though.

[s0crates]

We'll see how it pans out though.

I can't wait. Its been fun, even if you are a cowboys fan.

[scruffylookin]

Yes we were 3-7 last year, however we were 3-0, 4-2 and 5-3 this year with allegedly the "hard" part of our schedule behind us.

I think to be disappointed in this team's performance, especially over the last two weeks, is natural and justified.

But I'm still think they can turn this around. :2drunks:

Me and Abe Pollin, nutty opitimists. :gus: :doh1:

[KDawg]

There isn't a number 1 draft pick and there are virutally no worthwhile defensive linemen in free agency. But even if they were.....this team should be called the "WASHINGTON FUMBLERS". And the Skins also need a new QB who can "make it happen" instead of "make excuses".

Uhm... There's this one DE... he played for Syracuse in college... What the hell is his name? Uhm..

He plays on the same team with that Peyton guy...

[SkinsFTW]

Losing games to Denver, KC, Tampa, and now Oakland, that the Redskins should have won makes me wonder how they have any chance against SD, Dallas, NYG, St Louis and Philly in Philly to finish the year off.

If this team makes it to the playoffs after losing so many games that they completely gave away I will be seriously surprised. The only way I see it happening is if they somehow win 4 of 6 and a couple of the teams ahead of us right now start losing a lot of games. Like if Tampa, Chicago and Dallas fall apart then we have a chance, other than something like that then its pretty much over.

Injuries hurt the defense more than anything but the offense has no excuse for its extreme performances going from looking like the worst to the best then worst then best then worst again. The offense needs to get it done for this team to win and the defense needs to get healthy and add some better players on the line and secondary next year, even if they are only good backups.

[fuji869]

If you were 5-5 with after a slow start, this would be an improving team.

But you started out 3-0.

Teams that are improving do NOT start 3-0, then drop 5 of their next 7. I mean, think about the last seven games.

Agreed!

[mrhogg]

lost 5 of last 6 dont look like an improveing team to me

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't know if we are an improving team or not. At this point, the only real improvement over last year's team is the Mark Brunell-Santana Moss connection.

Our defense has regressed significantly. Our running game is not much improved. Our depth is still poor. And we still turn the ball over too much and take penalties.

If Brunell did not play out of his mind for that first month of the season, I don't know what our record is. And as others have said, Brunell is a short-timer. Whenever the reigns are given to Campbell (probably the middle of next year), we certainly will take at least half a step back.

[skinpride1]

Yea this an improving team all right!!! The last seven games played we have went 2/5.that sucks!!!!

[FunBunch7]

I am just happy to have games that mean something by Thanksgiving.

In 2001 we were 5-5 after an 0-5 start in which we finished 8-8

In 2002 I think we were 3-7

In 2003 we were 4-6

In 2004 we were 3-7

Now we finally have something to play for with some tie breakers on our side.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I am just happy to have games that mean something by Thanksgiving.

In 2001 we were 5-5 after an 0-5 start in which we finished 8-8

In 2002 I think we were 3-7

In 2003 we were 4-6

In 2004 we were 3-7

Now we finally have something to play for with some tie breakers on our side.

Yeah, and I think that's the first step...as much as we'd have liked to skip some steps this season and be 7-3 or something, we didn't.

We're an improved team over last year. Whether or not we're still improving within this season is debatable.

[Guest sith lord]

If you were 5-5 with after a slow start, this would be an improving team.

But you started out 3-0.

Teams that are improving do NOT start 3-0, then drop 5 of their next 7. I mean, think about the last seven games.

Two wins.

One against the San Francisco 49ers at home. Outside of playing the Texans at home, that's the easiest game any team in the NFL will have all season.

The other against the Eagles, however, this was the Eagles IMMEDIATELY after the TO suspension, fighting, and such. They were a mess. Even then, it came down to the final drive.

As far as I can see, if you can lose to the Raiders at home, you can lose any game left on your schedule. You'll lose next week considering that the Chargers are now one of the hottest teams in the NFL, and you're possibly the coldest. I think that you'll split the games against the Rams and Cardinals, mainly because they are both road games and you'll be coming off of a huge huge skid.

Then the NFC East gauntlet. If I'm right, you'll be 6-7 going into the run, with little more than a distant Wildcard spot on the line, and a team that really hasn't showed any guts when its up against the wall. I think we'll redeem ourselves for week two (Now that its clear that outside of Santana Moss and Chris Cooley, who are both great players, the Skins have NO weapons), dashing any remaining chance of the playoffs you may have.

Once the playoffs are out of the question, the skins drop their last two games to the G-Men and the Eagles. I'm willing to accept the possibility that you could win two games out of the final six, but I'm saying 6-10.

Which was my preseason prediction for Washington, by the way. I said that Dallas would be 9-7, but I'll be happy if I'm wrong on that one

Oh, and before you call me crazy for saying you'll drop at least 4, if not five of your final six, keep in mind you've dropped five of your last seven. If you won two of your final six games, that would actually be improvement.

Good points.

[TheLongshot]

Gotta love the negativity.

There seems to be way too many people here who are impatient for success. Who are frustrated that there are actually weaknesses on this team and that they have been exposed. This, in the end, is a good thing.

Overall, we are a better team than last year. That is nothing to be ashamed about, especially since we played some really tough teams really tough. In the end, we weren't as good as them, but that's fine, because we are building something here. It saddens me to think that other fans don't seem to agree.

I think it is funny that everyone is disappointed that we could finish 8-8. I think a lot of people here before the season would have been very happy with 8-8. But, this is DC...

ThornWithin,

I'll be glad when the Cowboys are exposed as the fraud they are. You guys aren't much better than we are, and have lucked out on a few games, where we haven't been as lucky.

Jason

[Guest sith lord]

Gotta love the negativity.

There seems to be way too many people here who are impatient for success. Who are frustrated that there are actually weaknesses on this team and that they have been exposed. This, in the end, is a good thing.

Overall, we are a better team than last year. That is nothing to be ashamed about, especially since we played some really tough teams really tough. In the end, we weren't as good as them, but that's fine, because we are building something here. It saddens me to think that other fans don't seem to agree.

I think it is funny that everyone is disappointed that we could finish 8-8. I think a lot of people here before the season would have been very happy with 8-8. But, this is DC...

ThornWithin,

I'll be glad when the Cowboys are exposed as the fraud they are. You guys aren't much better than we are, and have lucked out on a few games, where we haven't been as lucky.

Jason

The problem is that we're regressing. We started 3-0 and we've lost 5 out of our last 7.

[NorthCarolinaRedskin]

Give me a break. 2-5 in our last 7 and more importantly 0-2 in our last two games that all the guys knew were must-wins and knew were important in winning turnover ratio. We are not improved until the teams shows me something by winning when we need it.

[bigredone]

The real scary thing besides 2 and 5 out of 7 games is that we lost to every team in the AFC west so far this year and San Diego is coming to town next week........5 and 6 .....might as well pay attention to your second favorite team.......

[TheLongshot]

The problem is that we're regressing. We started 3-0 and we've lost 5 out of our last 7.

You are assuming that we were that good in the first place.

See, people don't want to see the bad in the win. Anyone here who critisizes the team after a win get asked, "Why can't you enjoy the win."

It is because I look at the big picture. To me, it was clear after about the KC game that we weren't going to win the SuperBowl this year, that we just didn't have enough. That's when my expectations were lowered. While I've been frustrated at times, I also know that we are still better than last year and that we are a growing team. I'm hoping the trend continues into next season.

Jason

[s0crates]

The problem is that we're regressing. We started 3-0 and we've lost 5 out of our last 7.

You are thinking too narrowly. We may be regressing this season. However, we are certainly not regressing as an organization. Look at where this team has been this past decade. What they are now IS an improvement over what they have been lately. Try to maintain some perspective.

Give me a break. 2-5 in our last 7 and more importantly 0-2 in our last two games that all the guys knew were must-wins and knew were important in winning turnover ratio. We are not improved until the teams shows me something by winning when we need it.

You should try to look at the big picture. As an 18 year old, the years seem longer and the results seem slow. But, if you can look over the course of the past decade and take all that has passed into account, you will see cause for optimism. This team is respectable and stable. THAT is progress around here.

It is hard to see the big picture when you are 18. It is still hard for me at 24. But if you try, you may see that turning around a perennial stinker takes time. You may even see that Gibbs staff is gradually correcting the organizations problems.

Winning would be great, but it is possible to improve without winning. Surely, even you remember when we couldn't even win a division game, when we couldn't win at home, when we couldn't beat Dallas, when we were done by late October. Things ARE changing, just not as fast as a an impatient kid would like.

I don't know if we are an improving team or not. At this point' date=' the only real improvement over last year's team is the Mark Brunell-Santana Moss connection.

Our defense has regressed significantly. Our running game is not much improved. Our depth is still poor. And we still turn the ball over too much and take penalties.

[/quote']

I agree with you that Santana Moss and Mark Brunnell are significant improvements over last year. I think if you look at it statistically, you will find you are wrong about our running game. Portis and Ladell are putting up much better numbers and averages than last year. MUCH better.

Our defense played stout last week. The offense lost that game. They have only had a couple bad performances. New York and Tampa Bay were especially ugly. Overall though, they are still a good unit. They played well against Oakland, Dallas, Chicago, San Fran, Denver, and Philly. In Tampa they were without arguably their two best players. New York was a fluke. When Griff comes back they'll return to form.

We are scoring more than last year. We beat the Cowboys - which we haven't done in eons. Most Importantly, we can still play our way into the playoffs in late November.

We are a better team than we have been in a while. Of course it is an incomplete process, but it is an improvement. How anybody can't acknowledge that this team is improving is beyond me.

[Hail26]

There is no way a playoff team loses to Norv Turnover and The Raiders at HOME!