Pushing Spanish......

[Destino]

How about forcing people to speak English?

I didn't expect my landlord to speak english when I lived in Spain, Sicily and germany and I didnt expect the waiter to say my I take your order when I was n nearly every country overseas either. I had a language book for the country I was in.

NavyDave is right and as blunt as a war hammer to the face.

[riggins44]

I know what you're saying Pete, and I agree with you. It's one thing to

make it a requirement, but to cut other programs is ludicrous.

Now...from a business perspective, I feel it's becoming more and more

important to know Spanish. It's gotten to the point where I am considering

taking a Spanish course. Been many, many, many years ago that I took

Spanish in High School.

[zoony]

I'd prefer Italian, but not for practical reasons...

Italian is more complex than Spanish when it comes to advanced grammar. Not necessarily super advanced things like future/past/subjunctive, but also things like commands, pluralization, articles, etcetera. The rules themselves are more complex. It gets the brain working more.

I feel that both languages will help a child grasp the rules of the English language a bit more, though, as strange as that may seem.

I was mostly refering to Spanish's practicality in the Americas... but I'm sure you're right about Italian being a more complex language and educationally more rewarding.

I think that ALL Americans would be better off if they spoke Spanish. Elementary school would be the perfect place to teach them. If students want to study Italian, German, etc... they can do that in High School.

In Belgium, EVERY citizen is required to learn 4 languages. Flemish, French, German, and English. It is pretty amazing... even the garbagemen can break away from Flemish and start rapping with you in English or German... or French... depending on who you are.

I'm not sure why Americans feel that education, in any form, is a bad thing. :whoknows:

........

[Destino]

I hate to say it but I think the time spent teaching kids a second language is a complete waste. How many people you know who took four years of a foreign language in high school can speak that language fluently 10 years later. My wife took four years of Spanish in high school and when I turn on one of the Spanish channels on tv I ask her if she can understand what they're saying. She says she doesn't have a clue. I also seriously doubt any of my friends who took four years of French (I grew up close to the Canadian border) are fluent.

Countries are kicking our butt in Math and Science but at least our kids can speak two languages (until they get out of school and forget it all).

Highschool is too late. You are more likely to pick up a foreign language if they start teaching it as soon as you enter school. Little kids are incredible in their ability to pick up langauges.

[ntotoro]

I was mostly refering to Spanish's practicality in the Americas... but I'm sure you're right about Italian being a more complex language and educationally more rewarding.

That was why I included the bit about Italian possibly being a little less practical...

As you say, Italian can be more rewarding. Also, you have artforms such as Opera which can be appreciated without translation, but it's more well-grasped when you can translate.

Italian may be the more complex language, but Spanish would be preferable for practical reasons. Both will help an American child get a better grasp of English grammar, though, I feel. As strange as that sounds, you really have to learn either one to appreciate it.

Taking Spanish in High School actually did help me more with English grammar.

[webnarc]

Speak what you want at home, but don't waste my tax money teaching kids a language because imigrants could care less about anything except gettng everything they can out of the system.

Pete, as a immigrant I take pride in giving back to the system. Maybe your experience is different, but my first hand experience is that there are now 4 solid tax payers in my folks, brother and me.

[Art Monk Fan]

A second language SHOULD be taught to all American children at a young age, when it's proven they'll more easily pick it up and retain it. That language should be Latin, however. Our medical and legal terminology is all based on Latin, and French, Spanish and Italian are all derivative from it as well. Learning Latin at a young age would better equip our kids as they progress in school and their careers.

In general, a return to the classical liberal arts education would be immensly helpful toward returning America to the top of the academic rankings. :2cents:

[Monte51Coleman]

I do agree with some of your sentiments in an emotional way. But as a parent raising a child in a increasingly multi-cultural society I would demand it. I want my child to have every advantage possible to thrive in a changing world. Like it or not, the fact is that there are already a tremendous amount of non or limited English speaking immigrants in this country, most of them spanish speaking, and that number is only going to rise in our lifetimes. To dig my heels in and adopt the attitude that " This is America-they must change not me" seems rediculously short-sighted to me.

[Destino]

Pete, as a immigrant I take pride in giving back to the system. Maybe your experience is different, but my first hand experience is that there are now 4 solid tax payers in my folks, brother and me.

I also got the impression that the word "immigrant" was used like it's something bad. I hope that isn't the case.

[HSF]

I think everyone one way or another picks up on another language. Case in point, at the workplace. After hearing it long enough, several people have started speaking it up.

[Monte51Coleman]

I know what you're saying Pete, and I agree with you. It's one thing to

make it a requirement, but to cut other programs is ludicrous.

Now...from a business perspective, I feel it's becoming more and more

important to know Spanish. It's gotten to the point where I am considering

taking a Spanish course. Been many, many, many years ago that I took

Spanish in High School.

This is my point, you are seeing it and you live in Yorktown. Imagine running your business in ANY major metropolitan area in the country.

[zoony]

I also got the impression that the word "immigrant" was used like it's something bad. I hope that isn't the case.

Pete has a fairly rich precedent on this board... not sure what, from his posts, would make you assume something like that.

[tinob]

We need to deport all illegal aliens as soon as possible!

D**mn Straight!

[GSF]

Being bilingual has enriched my life tremendously. I learned Spanish in my 20's when I first started working with the Hispanic work force and it was one of my proudest accomplishments. My typical day is conducted about 50/50 in Spanish and English and i really enjoy it. I have no doubt that I would not have been as successful in my career as I have been had I not learned Spanish. I also am very thankful for the personal relationships I have had with Spanish speaking people that I would have not been able to have had I not spoke Spanish.

You folks with your heads in the sand concerning Hispanic people and the Spanish language are really missing out. Of course Hispanic immigrants should try to learn English, and most of them do, but what is the harm in learning how to communicate with them in their language. Are you afraid of becoming smarter?

Whether you agree with immigration policies or not, the fact is there is a very large Hispanic population in the US and it is only going to continue to grow. It behooves us all to be able to communicate with these folks.

Most schools in civilized countries all around the world require that all students learn English as well as their native language. Many of those schools require students to learn 3 languages. You know why, because leaders of those countries understand that English is spoken worldwide and that learning English can only help the students. Spanish is now also becoming a worldwide language like English, and it can only help our students to learn it.

All 3 of my kids are learning Spanish at a young age at home and at school, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[GSF]

And another thing, a sexy Puerto Rican gal that loves the Redskins? Oh man...if I wasn't married...

[HSF]

And another thing, a sexy Puerto Rican gal that loves the Redskins? Oh man...if I wasn't married...

Thank you!

[paulwhy]

If you live on the west coast it comes in very handy to know spanish

I learned it in my twenties and i have to use it almost every day to communicate with half the people here. Its great when i go to mexico cause i dont feel like such a tourist and i get better deals on things :2cents:

[Destino]

Pete has a fairly rich precedent on this board... not sure what, from his posts, would make you assume something like that.

I haven't assumed anything at all. I gave my impression of the words use in the context in which it was written and stated that I hoped my impression was incorrect. My post makes him aware to a possible misinterpretation of his post and allows him to assure everyone that he's as good a fellow as he appears to be.

[75004]

D**mn Straight!

Off the subject.

[Kilmer17]

While it would be GREAT if we could make everyone speak english, that doesnt diminish the benefits kids would get by becoming bi-lingual.

The benefits of learning another language are far greater than simply the ability to converse with someone using that language.

There is a benefit of learning the origins of speech. Literature. As well as culture.

How many people in the US take Latin? And do any of them speak it? Of course not, but that's not why they take it.

A 4 year Language Requirement in HS is stupid. Having it as part of the curriculum at an early age creates a situation where kids arent merely translating Spanish into English and regurgitating it, but rather creating true Bi-lingual students.

How can this be a bad thing?

[GSF]

While it would be GREAT if we could make everyone speak english, that doesnt diminish the benefits kids would get by becoming bi-lingual.

The benefits of learning another language are far greater than simply the ability to converse with someone using that language.

There is a benefit of learning the origins of speech. Literature. As well as culture.

How many people in the US take Latin? And do any of them speak it? Of course not, but that's not why they take it.

A 4 year Language Requirement in HS is stupid. Having it as part of the curriculum at an early age creates a situation where kids arent merely translating Spanish into English and regurgitating it, but rather creating true Bi-lingual students.

How can this be a bad thing?

Good post.

[Pete]

Folks, I have no problem with kids learning a second language. I have a problem paying for it because of people who don't pay, or pay very little taxes aren't willing to change even a little. Our school systems are strapped for money. We can't get qualified teachers in this area because we can't pay enough for them to be able to afford housing in the area. The area is growing so fast, we need 3 or 4 more schools every year, and teachers to staff them. It comes down to money that could be spent in other ways.

I have a problem with less time spent on the normal subjects, or removing some stuff so people migrating here don't have to make an effort to learn, just the folks that have been here for generations have too. I have a problem spending all that money so a kid can walk into the 7-11, ask for a smokey big bite, and be understood buy the non english speaking person behind the counter that shouldn't have been hired because they don't speak both languages.

I have a problem with imigrants being catered to at my expense. We're pizzing money away we don't have, and is sorely needed just to keep things moving at a normal pace. The farming and construction loby are at the root of this IMO. As long as they can get their low cost labor, they'll do anything they can to make it easier for them to get along.

[DjTj]

Folks, I have no problem with kids learning a second language. I have a problem paying for it because of people who don't pay, or pay very little taxes aren't willing to change even a little. Our school systems are strapped for money. We can't get qualified teachers in this area because we can't pay enough for them to be able to afford housing in the area. The area is growing so fast, we need 3 or 4 more schools every year, and teachers to staff them. It comes down to money that could be spent in other ways.

I have a problem with less time spent on the normal subjects, or removing some stuff so people migrating here don't have to make an effort to learn, just the folks that have been here for generations have too. I have a problem spending all that money so a kid can walk into the 7-11, ask for a smokey big bite, and be understood buy the non english speaking person behind the counter that shouldn't have been hired because they don't speak both languages.

I have a problem with imigrants being catered to at my expense. We're pizzing money away we don't have, and is sorely needed just to keep things moving at a normal pace. The farming and construction loby are at the root of this IMO. As long as they can get their low cost labor, they'll do anything they can to make it easier for them to get along.

Is teaching kids Spanish really "catering to the immigrants" though? Making bilingual ballots, pamphlets, and signs is catering to the immigrants, but teaching Spanish in schools seems to be more about helping the kids than helping the immigrants.

At the most basic level, if a kid can buy a smokey big bite now, that's going to help him a lot more than the store clerk. At a deeper level, learning a second language is going to help the kid with his grammar, it's going to challenge him to learn something new and different, and if taught at a young age, it's going to provide a foundation for learning Spanish again later in life if the kid ever wants to pick it up again.

In first and second grade, there aren't specific facts that need to be drilled into kids' heads. They need to learn to read, they need to learn to add, and they need to learn how to think. Nobody learns substantive information in the early grades, and I believe there have been many studies that have proven the value of learning a second language early in life.

When I was in fourth grade, my class spent maybe one hour three days a week learning Chinese. When I was in high school, I volunteered at a Chinese immersion program for kindergarteners. In Montgomery County, MD I believe there were also similar programs for Japanese, Spanish, and French. I don't think there's any doubt that these programs can be valuable, and I don't think a bunch of kids are growing up horribly deficient in math or reading.

I bet it's a lot cheaper to run a county-wide program in Spanish than it is to hire specialists in several different languages. I bet there is also a readily available supply of Spanish-speaking teachers in your area. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a more cost-effective way to teach first and second graders something so potentially valuable. It's not about catering to immigrants; it's about educating our children.